Will Oz Govt know if I marry in Thailand?

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

I have heard of this before,....why do certain countries reduce the pension once married ?

Because its a good way to save on revenue, and of course depending on the wife's age, they can allege she is young enough to work and support you.

 

Any excuse to reduce the amounts for pensioners, most who have worked and paid taxes all of their lives, so the system can support the dole bludgers, single mothers, carers allowance rorts and the like, don't get me started 555

[steve C]

6 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

You sure you've got that right,  it don't make any sense.

I f you are cheating the Australian tax payer, you will get caught out. Som Na Na

[catman20]

5 hours ago, Fatone said:

Yes if married you get half married pension for sure if they know

and lucky if you get to keep half your assets when divorced.

[Maggusoil]

The Australian Government is only likely to find out if and when you enter the country with your Thai wife and you say you are married. Then within the prescribed time, she will be entitled to Aus benefits.

 

Whether or not you let the Department of Births Deaths and Marriages know you are married is up to you, and you can let Centerlink know you are married. If you don't tell Dept BD&M, means you can divorce without the Aus expenses and complications. 

 

In other words at the moment I believe you can keep these two information streams separate. 

[Peterw42]

Married pension rate ($600 each) applies if you are both of pension age, otherwise its a reduced rate single pension as they presume your wife can work and support you.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Peterw42

[hoffy66]

5 hours ago, Fatone said:

This is the way I hope it works, better for me to get marriage visa! But it is likely we will need a tourist visa for her to visit Oz at some stage. Do we need to declare marriage to get visa? What if she doesnt change her name on passport?

 

i am married to a thai, when i went to aussie they did cut my pension by a bit more than 200 dollars, and when my wife worked there they took 50 cents in the dollar more, so we seperated, now i live in thailand on my full aussie age pension, did not try the visitor visa

[Laza 45]

46 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Just did some research myself on this, it appears if you are married, you can apply to get the married rate which is about $613 per person, per fortnight, i.e. around $1,226 per fortnight, and then they halve it, so its about $613 per fortnight Vs $814 per fortnight for a single pension, albeit about $5,000 AUS per year the difference, still enough to live in Thailand, depending on your creature comforts. So might not have to go through my divorce plan after all.

 

But watch out for that 2 year rule, if they can smell you are going to go back overseas, they can decline your pension, so the more assets you have in Aus, the stronger your case.

 

As for Medicare its good for 5 years if you are out of the country, after that, you are toast, and will have to reapply.

...What is the 2 year rule?.. I haven't heard of this before..   I don't believe they can stop your pension for living overseas.. but you will loose Medicare cover if they find the you are no longer a resident of OZ..

[KiChakayan]

55 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

I have heard of this before,....why do certain countries reduce the pension once married ?

Pretty obvious to me; you need less money for two people under the same roof, than for two people living alone.

Edited October 17, 2017 by KiChakayan

[observer90210]

Just now, KiChakayan said:

Pretty obvious to me; you need less money for two people under the same roof, than for two people living alone.

a funny approach...... well in that case perhaps the married ones are luckier where we live here in Europe, as a married pensionner gets more then a single....

[Peterw42]

11 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

...What is the 2 year rule?.. I haven't heard of this before..   I don't believe they can stop your pension for living overseas.. but you will loose Medicare cover if they find the you are no longer a resident of OZ..

The 2 year rule is you need to be in Australia for 2 years when you first apply for the pension, before the pension becomes portable to outside Australia. 

They dont stop your pension if living overseas, but have a 2 year qualifying period. The overseas pension rate is dependant on how many years you worked in Australia, if you worked most of your life in oz then no problem. If you only worked for a couple of years then its greatly reduced.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Peterw42

[KiChakayan]

16 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

a funny approach...... well in that case perhaps the married ones are luckier where we live here in Europe, as a married pensionner gets more then a single....

The Social security in Australia is quite different from those existing in Europe. The state provides only the bare minimum to prevent people from becoming destitute if they are too old for working, lose their jobs or are disabled. If you have assets or income (from superannuation for instance)  your state pension will be reduced. There are of course ways (tax incentives) to plan for retirement, good employers can provide good superannuation schemes.

I quite like it... And many Australians take pride in not being a burden for their country.

Edited October 17, 2017 by KiChakayan

[GOLDBUGGY]

6 hours ago, Fatone said:

This is the way I hope it works, better for me to get marriage visa! But it is likely we will need a tourist visa for her to visit Oz at some stage. Do we need to declare marriage to get visa? What if she doesnt change her name on passport?

 

If you are prepared to lie on some government documents I don't see anyway they will find out. You would technically have a paper trail in your passport for marriage extensions to stay here, but never heard of anyone being forced to show that when applying for there pension.

 

Being married and applying for a tourist visa for you wife can actually work against you. What most countries look at when you make a Visa Application, is why does this person want to go there, can they afford to, and most important is if this person would return after the visa expires.

 

So having enough money to stay there, and the more roots you wife has to Thailand that you can show, like job, family, land, etc, the better her visa chances. Being married and applying for a tourist visa is more likely not to come back.  

[Nuddy]

If he marries and does not tell his pension provider he will be committing a crime in Australia.

should he bother to read his obligations under the pension he receives, yes he should.

and when they find out, as they will eventually, he will have to pay it all back plus face the courts for fraud.

Sounds like a fun deal.

[StevieAus]

2 minutes ago, Nuddy said:

If he marries and does not tell his pension provider he will be committing a crime in Australia.

should he bother to read his obligations under the pension he receives, yes he should.

and when they find out, as they will eventually, he will have to pay it all back plus face the courts for fraud.

Sounds like a fun deal.

I think your comment is pretty spot on as to what will occur

[bazza73]

7 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

You sure you've got that right,  it don't make any sense.

Of course it doesn't make any sense, he is dealing with Centrelink.

The situation is a married couple gets two pensions. Each pension is about $200 less than the single pension.

However, because his wife is not Australian, she is not entitled to any pension. But Centrelink says he is married, so he is only entitled to the married couple pension.

8 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say NO. Not unless you tell them. 

Although we live in the information age, do you really think the Thai government is correlating a list from the local Amphers and sending it to all the governments of the world ? 

Lots of people think that the "free to marry" stat dec from the embassy is informing the Australian Government, its not !

Even if the Australian Gov noted the contents of a stat dec, (they dont) its not proof you got married only freedom to marry.

I think you are underestimating Centrelink's information gathering capabilities. If you lie to them, and they find out, you are in a world of trouble. My policy is to tell them as little as possible, and avoid paper trails.

[jgarbo]

8 hours ago, BEVUP said:

but if you were to ever take your legally married wife to Australia would they be able to track that

And the ATO, which is linked to immigration, will probably demand reimbursement from your payments, and sue for fraud as well. Oz govt depts are very well connected.

Think ahead before you commit fraud. 

[bazza73]

I think the OP needs to weigh up the benefit of reducing the 800,000 baht balance against the loss in pension. He would lose $5200 a year in pension, against not having to put up $15,400 ( half the 800,000 baht )

Unless he has an investment that can generate a 33% return on capital year in, year out, it's a no-brainer. Either don't get married, or hope Centrelink doesn't find out.

If he has income apart from the Age Pension, he may be able to get up to the 65,000 baht/month threshold. Then he can get his retirement visa with a Stat Dec from the Australian embassy. I've just done it, because I got fed up with watching my money earn piffling amounts of interest on term deposits here.

[GOLDBUGGY]

6 minutes ago, Nuddy said:

If he marries and does not tell his pension provider he will be committing a crime in Australia.

should he bother to read his obligations under the pension he receives, yes he should.

and when they find out, as they will eventually, he will have to pay it all back plus face the courts for fraud.

Sounds like a fun deal.

I agree with you and I personally wouldn't bother to do this for A$200. Who wants to spend there Golden Years in some jail? 

 

But on the other hand, it seems that the main reason he is getting married here is to make getting his Visa to stay here easier, or cheaper. Since a Marriage Visa (Extension to stay) is not easier than an Extension to stay under Retirement, then the reason must be that it is cheaper.

 

Having said that the laws in many countries have changed to. You no longer have to be married to a person to be considered married under there law. Living with somebody for over a year under a marriage arrangement is consider to be married by Common Law. At least in Canada anyway.

 

So just by living with this woman in a marriage relationship he could be breaking the law regarding his pension already. I understand each country can be different, but I would certainly look into this if I was him.  

[bheard]

To get a registered marriage over here you need to sign a stat dec and get it stamped at your consulate. I wonder if they keep a copy and add details to a database. Probably. Its the nanny state of oz govt we are talking about. The question is can you get that stat dec stamped from an attorney over here instead of the consulate? I dont know. 

I'm sure you're correct about Centrelink finding out via the consulate, but to blame the nanny state is not correct. In this situation the nanny state you refer to is trying to be the exact opposite. It's wants to cut your benefits, which is not exactly being your nanny!
And they're right on the ball. 2 weeks after leaving the country my Centrelink app tells me I have a letter in it informing me that in 4 weeks time I will have my pension cut.

Sent from my BLL-L22 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bazza73]

1 minute ago, bheard said:

 

I'm sure you're correct about Centrelink finding out via the consulate, but to blame the nanny state is not correct. In this situation the nanny state you refer to is trying to be the exact opposite. It's wants to cut your benefits, which is not exactly being your nanny!
And they're right on the ball. 2 weeks after leaving the country my Centrelink app tells me I have a letter in it informing me that in 4 weeks time I will have my pension cut.

Sent from my BLL-L22 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

That's simply the removal of the energy and comms supplements, which are much cheaper here anyway. Your base pension is not affected.

Although I do reckon it's a bit unfair one can't get rental assistance. Rent is rent anywhere on the planet.

[digger70]

8 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

You sure you've got that right,  it don't make any sense.

Yes it does that's Australia for you ,,,If you're wife is not at the retirement age YOU LOSE,Honest people have done it and lost heaps of their Single Pension.  (:

[bheard]

The 2 year rule is you need to be in Australia for 2 years when you first apply for the pension, before the pension becomes portable to outside Australia. 
They dont stop your pension if living overseas, but have a 2 year qualifying period. The overseas pension rate is dependant on how many years you worked in Australia, if you worked most of your life in oz then no problem. If you only worked for a couple of years then its greatly reduced.

"most of your life". There is a number. It's 35 years I believe. Any less than that the pension will be cut proportionally.

Sent from my BLL-L22 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bazza73]

7 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I agree with you and I personally wouldn't bother to do this for A$200. Who wants to spend there Golden Years in some jail? 

 

But on the other hand, it seems that the main reason he is getting married here is to make getting his Visa to stay here easier, or cheaper. Since a Marriage Visa (Extension to stay) is not easier than an Extension to stay under Retirement, then the reason must be that it is cheaper.

 

Having said that the laws in many countries have changed to. You no longer have to be married to a person to be considered married under there law. Living with somebody for over a year under a marriage arrangement is consider to be married by Common Law. At least in Canada anyway.

 

So just by living with this woman in a marriage relationship he could be breaking the law regarding his pension already. I understand each country can be different, but I would certainly look into this if I was him.  

This is a very grey area. Centrelink pays pensions on the basis of Common Law ( they call it defacto ) relationships in Australia.

However, if you are in a defacto relationship in Thailand, that is not recognized under Thai law.

AS far as I am concerned, I am living in Thailand under Thai law on a retirement visa. Australian laws apply to me when I am in Australia.End of story.

[Laza 45]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

The 2 year rule is you need to be in Australia for 2 years when you first apply for the pension, before the pension becomes portable to outside Australia. 

They dont stop your pension if living overseas, but have a 2 year qualifying period. The overseas pension rate is dependant on how many years you worked in Australia, if you worked most of your life in oz then no problem. If you only worked for a couple of years then its greatly reduced.

Yes.. I remember now.. I have a friend who retired early and lived here for a few years.. got married had a child.. built a small resort.. then had to go back and stay 2 years to get his pension! 

[GOLDBUGGY]

11 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

This is a very grey area. Centrelink pays pensions on the basis of Common Law ( they call it defacto ) relationships in Australia.

However, if you are in a defacto relationship in Thailand, that is not recognized under Thai law.

AS far as I am concerned, I am living in Thailand under Thai law on a retirement visa. Australian laws apply to me when I am in Australia.End of story.

If your Pension Money was coming from Thailand then you would be 100% correct. But it isn't!

 

Your Pension is coming from Australia and thus it is under Australian Law. For example the 2 year agreement many people have talked about here.

 

Many people who are collecting pensions here are still responsible for paying Income Taxes on that money in there home country. Unless there is some sort of tax agreement with Thailand. So it is nice to think it is the end of the story by moving here, but that may not be the case.  It isn't for Canada anyway.

[Nemises]

If no one in Aus knew about the marriage AND you have no intentions of ever going back to Aus AND you don’t apply for a marriage visa, then and only then, would I consider trying it.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, steve C said:

I f you are cheating the Australian tax payer, you will get caught out. Som Na Na

The point l am trying to make is it's unfair if the Oz government think Thai wives make a good living well if they had brains they would be dangerous.

[jenny2017]

If you only marry her because of your visa situation, then best of luck to you. 

[madusa]

9 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say NO. Not unless you tell them. 

Although we live in the information age, do you really think the Thai government is correlating a list from the local Amphers and sending it to all the governments of the world ? 

Lots of people think that the "free to marry" stat dec from the embassy is informing the Australian Government, its not !

Even if the Australian Gov noted the contents of a stat dec, (they dont) its not proof you got married only freedom to marry.

I guess you are right, they have better things to do or rather more important things to do shall we say.

[davidst01]

5 hours ago, davidst01 said:

To get a registered marriage over here you need to sign a stat dec and get it stamped at your consulate. I wonder if they keep a copy and add details to a database. Probably. Its the nanny state of oz govt we are talking about. The question is can you get that stat dec stamped from an attorney over here instead of the consulate? I dont know. 

go to the oz press. Give the evidence and get it on tv. The guy will be  named and shamed. The thai lady will get her money back.