Visa extension nightmare.

[roobaa01]

@ubonjoe  so what u say is...two non-o s cannot be issued only 1 . then i dont comprehend when you hold a non o single entry based on marriage this can be extended 7 days prior to expiration by 60 days to visit your wife. so that cannot be done with an non o b ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

@ubonjoe  so what u say is...two non-o s cannot be issued only 1 . then i dont comprehend when you hold a non o single entry based on marriage this can be extended 7 days prior to expiration by 60 days to visit your wife. so that cannot be done with an non o b ???

I replied to what you wrote. Which appears to say he could of gotten a non-o visa.

21 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

i read the op was married hence siracha could have issued a non-o to visit his wife instead of going to the mfa.

If he had wanted to he could of applied for a 60 day extension to visit his wife but that is not getting a non-o visa.

[roobaa01]

@ubonjoe sorry for my unprecise terminology , yes i meant the 60 days extension.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Andycoops]

It still baffles me why people can't spend 1 day of their time each year yo do these things personally. 

With countless tales of things going wrong as another OP has reported his delayed online 90 day.

If you have been in Thailand for any length of time it shouldn't surprise you.

[TKDfella]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Because the immigration officer insisted he needed a non-o visa to apply for his extension instead of the non-b he was incorrectly issued by the embassy.,

Yes I understand that but could the IO not have extended the Non-B? Was there other paperwork the OP had that contradicted the Non-B?

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Yes I understand that but could the IO not have extended the Non-B? Was there other paperwork the OP had that contradicted the Non-B?

He was applying for an extension of stay based upon retirement. All that is required is a 90 day non immigrant visa entry to apply for the extension. But the immigration officer stated he could not do it with the the entry from a non-b visa.

Edited October 20, 2017 by ubonjoe
corrected error

[TKDfella]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

He was applying for an extension of stay based upon retirement. All that is required is a 90 day non immigrant visa entry to apply for the extension. But the immigration officer stated he could not do it with the the entry from a non-b visa.

Are you implying that the IO could have done the extension but simply didn't want to?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Are you implying that the IO could have done the extension but simply didn't want to?

I corrected my post by inserting a not that should of been in it.

I am saying the officer could of done it but refused to do it.

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Are you implying that the IO could have done the extension but simply didn't want to?

Yes.

The answer to the issue was posted in 3.

 

Not all Immigration offices will not do an extension based on retirement from a Non B Visa, although the letter of the law states a Non Imm type Visa. A Non B is essentially issued for the purpose of business, not for retirement.

It was in this instance a genuine mistake by the London Embassy, but the IO wasn't prepared to entertain it or correct it.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

That may be your interpretation but the man at the Ministry of Consular Affairs , MFA is more common, agreed with the interpretation made by immigration in that a one year extension on a Non Imm B visa can only be done on a business basis.

I'm not interpreting anything. Other offices have, for years, been issuing extensions of stay based on retirement to those with category 'B' non-immigrant visa entries, which confirms that it can be done. And the published rules state that "The alien must hold a non-immigrant visa", but they don't specify that it must be a category 'O'  or exclude category 'B' .

 

As I said, some offices, and it appears Sri Ratcha is one, won't do it for category 'B' visa holders, and will usually send the person out of the country for a new visa. Sri Ratcha is just another example of an office exerting their autonomy when processing extension applications. 

 

As far as I know extensions of stay issued by immigration have nothing to do with the MFA, and I doubt any of the staff would be particularly qualified to comment. I would have asked for the rule/regulation being interpreted, otherwise it's just their opinion.

 

Bottom line is that some offices will do it, and some won't.

 

 

[natway09]

Hate to say it but your opening sentence says it all.

I have had to organize my overseas trips a few times to dodge my extension &  return after

the police probation (for want of a better word) about 1 month)

You made a choice,, live with it

[greenchair]

On 10/19/2017 at 6:54 PM, BritTim said:

I would have bought the staff at MFA some nice cakes as a think you. They were willing to bend the rules a bit to help you. Lots of officials would have insisted on sticking to the letter of the rules, and you would have been faced with going back next week (plus other complications).

That's right. A basket of yummy fruit is always welcome and make it nice for the next person. 

[ericthai]

5 hours ago, TKDfella said:

Are you implying that the IO could have done the extension but simply didn't want to?

The IO would not grant an extension for the non-B because he wouldn't qualify, to get approved he would have had to show company docs such as tax receipts, shareholders, etc.  

[Myran]

Consider yourself lucky if you deem this a nightmare. Glad it worked out for you.

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, ericthai said:

The IO would not grant an extension for the non-B because he wouldn't qualify, to get approved he would have had to show company docs such as tax receipts, shareholders, etc.  

That is not correct as others have written before. All he needed to apply for the extension was a non immigrant visa entry and he had one. The rules do not state a particular non immigrant visa category for extensions. He had all the required document for his extension of stay based upon retirement.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, elviajero said:

 

 

As far as I know extensions of stay issued by immigration have nothing to do with the MFA, and I doubt any of the staff would be particularly qualified to comment. I would have asked for the rule/regulation being interpreted, otherwise it's just their opinion.

 

It is my understanding that government sets immigration policy and the police(immigration) are only responsible for implementation but quite prepared to bow to superior knowledge on that.

I take it you are saying that because some offices do it they have made the correct interpretation.

I fail to see why a senior MFA official would be required to sign my passport if immigration had got it wrong.

For some reason I cannot upload a copy of the stamp, upload fails.

 

 

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, ericthai said:

The IO would not grant an extension for the non-B because he wouldn't qualify, to get approved he would have had to show company docs such as tax receipts, shareholders, etc.  

Exactly what the senior IO at Sri Ratcha said. 

What people are referring to is an English translation of a Thai document so it really comes down to what the implied requirements were in the original policy and who has oversight in such matters.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, natway09 said:

Hate to say it but your opening sentence says it all.

I have had to organize my overseas trips a few times to dodge my extension &  return after

the police probation (for want of a better word) about 1 month)

You made a choice,, live with it

So you think that the fact that the London Embassy issued a visa that I was not entitled to and which subsequently caused a problem doesn't come into it.

I am quite prepared to live with the fact that I paid attention to comments on here rather than go straight to immigration.

[stupidfarang]

With the time difference between London and Thailand, they most likely not able to contact the London office until after 3pm Thai time at the earliest. But this all sounds like a normal day going from office to office, department to department, just smile and relax, go with the flow, you are in Thailand and it sounds like it was all sorted.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I corrected my post by inserting a not that should of been in it.

I am saying the officer could of done it but refused to do it.

Not the officer, the office. I was taken to one side by the senior IO who explained in very good English exactly what the problem was and that the visa category could only be changed by the MFA.

 

For those that want to run down Sri Ratcha I have to say that I have always found them very helpful in an awkward situation. I got caught up in the UK passport fiasco and had to apply for a marriage extension to get another 30 days on my permission to stay. Unfortunately my passport was full but after some debate they agreed to put the under consideration stamp in a place with minimum overlap.

On Thursday when I went back to hand in my extension forms my wife asked the IO about the TM30 and the IO said it was not required if I continued to return to the same address, good to hear from the IO that does extensions. The TM30 receipt in my passport is dated July 2014 and I have now done 3 extensions since then.

They were very quick and helpful when I returned following the visa change and yesterday took about 3 minutes to collect my passport, Sri Ratcha can hardly be described as a problem office.

[JackThompson]

Although that office of the MFA can make visa-changes (obviously), there was no reason to require it in this case, other than because an IO insisted on it.  A "Non-Imm" entry was all that was needed as a starting point for your extension - and you had it already.

 

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

It is my understanding that government sets immigration policy and the police(immigration) are only responsible for implementation ...

In theory, that is true - there is a command-hierarchy, which should be followed.  In reality, there seems to be little oversight, so Immigration Offices and individuals within them can run wild.  They can add non-existent rules which are not in in the immigration-act and associated ministerial orders, as in the your case, while simultaneously choosing to ignore the rules, in exchange for agent-kickbacks, in other cases.

 

Sometimes the problem is is ignorance of the rules, combined with an unwillingness to admit ignorance and seek the truth.  Other times, it is corruption, or an anti-foreigner attitude, or simply trying to avoid "doing work."  All these can make immigration-matters more difficult than they need to be.  It may be difficult to know which of these factors are at-play in a particular case.

 

36 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I was taken to one side by the senior IO who explained in very good English exactly what the problem was

In another office, I have had an IO explain, in very good English, complete lies and fabrications of the rules, to avoid processing a conversion.  Granted, the attitudes/reasons for the problem may differ, in our respective cases.  In your case, it may have been simply ignorance, and an unwillingness to validate their assumption.  Or, it could be a case of, "This is how the rules should be, so I will enforce my will in place of the law" (see IOs at many airports for this attitude taken to extremes).

Edited October 21, 2017 by JackThompson

[sandyf]

15 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Although that office of the MFA can make visa-changes (obviously), there was no reason to require it in this case, other than because an IO insisted on it.  A "Non-Imm" entry was all that was needed as a starting point for your extension - and you had it already.

 

Always blame the IO, stock TV answer, I can only assume you consider the 'reason' on the request form to be invalid. I see you chose to ignore the other point.

 

"I fail to see why a senior MFA official would be required to sign my passport if immigration had got it wrong."

 

Bottom line here is, people should ignore your opinion and check with immigration on their interpretation.

[ubonjoe]

34 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Bottom line here is, people should ignore your opinion and check with immigration on their interpretation.

This is what the immigration website states. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

Quote

In the case of retirement:

Criteria for Consideration

The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

You will note it does not mention a category of non immigrant visa.

[BritTim]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Always blame the IO, stock TV answer, I can only assume you consider the 'reason' on the request form to be invalid. I see you chose to ignore the other point.

No, often the officials are right, and the foreigners wrong. However, there are many cases where officials misinterpret the rules. That is why (for instance) in most areas you can get a work permit on a Non O extension on the basis of a Thai spouse, but some labor offices will insist it is not possible. Those who say it is not possible are correct in a sense. It is impossible because they do not understand their own written rules.

 

In these situations, the laws and regulations as written are usually correct, and departures from the rules by specific offices and officials usually wrong and frustrating. Quoting their own regulations to them to pointless, indeed counterproductive.

 

36 minutes ago, sandyf said:

"I fail to see why a senior MFA official would be required to sign my passport if immigration had got it wrong."

 

Whether immigration was right or wrong is nothing to do with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (a different branch of government). They were being asked to change the visa class, and that is what they did.

[mrbeerguy]

Hi. I plan to leave enough money in my BKK Bank 4 months ahead of my 1 year Ext. of stay to meet above the 65,000 minimum.Will my updated Bank book do or do I require a letter from the Bank?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Always blame the IO, stock TV answer ...

No - in most cases, we point out that the foreign-poster had it wrong.

 

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

... Bottom line here is, people should ignore your opinion and check with immigration on their interpretation.

It's not "my opinion" that is at issue.  What people are forced to ignore, are the Laws and Ministerial Orders that should govern these matters - because of a state of semi-lawlessness within the Immigration hierarchy.

 

Ultimately, you are correct, because the IO you deal with can do or say almost anything that suits them at that moment.  This leaves foreigners with two choices: "comply" (regardless if the IO has it right) or "move to another area" (where the actual laws are followed for the services you need). 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, mrbeerguy said:

Hi. I plan to leave enough money in my BKK Bank 4 months ahead of my 1 year Ext. of stay to meet above the 65,000 minimum.Will my updated Bank book do or do I require a letter from the Bank?

You must have 800k baht in a Thai bank for 3 months on the date you apply for an extension of stay based upon retirement.

You will need a letter from your bank and copies of your updated bank book.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Not the officer, the office. I was taken to one side by the senior IO who explained in very good English exactly what the problem was and that the visa category could only be changed by the MFA.

What people are referring to is an English translation of a Thai document so it really comes down to what the implied requirements were in the original policy and who has oversight in such matters.

My wife read Police Order 327-5227 Thai text.

There is no mention of any class of Visa other than Non Imm.

 

I certainly know one individual who obtain an extension based on retirement form his ED Visa at my IO.

 

It appears Sri Ratcha have adopted the anomaly that you must have a Non Imm O type Visa (that being the most common type) to apply for an extension based on retirement and you were just a victim of their opinionated stance.

This is what happens when you have a Country where Provinces government administrations act autonomously.

 

I'm glad you were able to sort out your problem though and at least you had a positive outcome.

 

[mrbeerguy]

Thanks UbonJoe

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

This is what the immigration website states. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

You will note it does not mention a category of non immigrant visa.

Not a lot to be said other than the fact the MFA does not agree with that interpretation.

I had to submit a formal application to have the visa category changed and some one had to authorise that application.

No one on here is ever going to know why they considered it necessary to go through that procedure but their view was that a Cat B could only be extended on a business basis.

They were very concerned that a B visa had been issued without any business attached and the fact that 3 different officers were involved is some indication of how much attention was being paid to the matter.

Probably best to draw this to a close.