North Korea diplomat says take atmospheric nuclear test threat 'literally'

[craigt3365]

22 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex

 

Gotta keep finding those enemies to fight....

 

A speech from 55 years ago?  Which is a favorite among conspiracy theorists?  Good gosh.

[ThaiFelix]

3 hours ago, baboon said:

An understandable perspective. However ask yourself what the DPRK would have to gain from preemptively attacking the US and committing national suicide in the process. 

Mind you it is all academic anyway. There will be no nuclear war between the two states. A good deal of the fuss is a sensationalist media stirring things up to generate revenue.

Agreed.  Although the USA feels it needs to appear strong in front of the rest of the world just as Kim needs to do the same in front of his people which results in a lot of sabre rattling.  The only problem is if Kim or Donald are as mentally unsound as many believe.  And the military industrial complex??...I dont think they would be lobbying for a nuclear war....money could be made through reconstruction but there is much more profit to be made in a traditional war.

[Thaidream]

I can assure you the Domino Theory is dead and does not have any modern day adherents.  Since I was a young man drafted into the US Army  during the Vietnam era- I am well aware of the Domino Theory and at that time argued against it as a reason America should be in Vietnam. In fact, I wanted to refuse to go into the Army at the time because I waas very much against the war but pressure from my family - especially my father who served in WWII forced me to acquiesce to entering the military.

 

I have no bone to pick with the US military- people enter and do their duty and are sometimes victims of a Governmental policy that is wrong. Had I refused to go into the Army I would have been  put into prison. A part of me always regrets not taking a stand. I can;t even look at the Vietnam Memorial in Washington DC with the almost 60K names on the monument who died let alone the hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese. The Vietnamese are definitely better off without the war and so are the Americans.

 

However,  the Korean situation springs from a different start and a different set of circumstances. As I have written- I don't believe the US wants a new war in Korea and I am certain neither do the Korean people. Let's hope that there are negotiations going on behind the scenes that will eventually freeze NKorea's nuclear program and allow the US to withdraw from the South and the North and South work towards reunification. I Know I have had enough of War and most Americans are tired of it.

[Jdiddy]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

A nuclear weapon isn't a defensive weapon.

A good offense and MAD is the best defense, hence nuclear weapons are a great defensive weapon.

 

Name me one nuclear armed country that has been invaded and "liberated"

Edited October 26, 2017 by Jdiddy

[Happy Grumpy]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

A nuclear weapon isn't a defensive weapon.

 

A nuclear weapon is the best defensive weapon there is.

 

A number of them in different locations that can all be set off remotely, you're country is safe.

 

The American Industrial Complex is really struggling to get this war off the ground! Just look how hard they're trying to! 

[Thaidream]

While the nuclear arsenal maybe a defensive weapon- this is only true until a rogue country such as NKorea or Iran determines they want to use one of their weapons or they allow one of the weapons to slip into the hands of a terrorist organization that wants to use it to destroy a civilization that it disagrees with.  

Neither NKorea or Iran have proved to be established guardians of nuclear weapons and have committed atrocities that proves they cannot be trusted with the nuclear option. Mr. Kim would starve his whole country to continue his nuclear program and the Ayatollahs of Iran would use their religious furor to try and convert the infidels and eliminate those who refused.In addition- neither country would have any qualms of selling a nuclear weapon to a terrorist group.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, Jdiddy said:

A good offense and MAD is the best defense, hence nuclear weapons are a great defensive weapon.

 

Name me one nuclear armed country that has been invaded and "liberated"

 

MAD works (if it indeed does) if both sides adhere to a similar concept of the "rules". I don't know that this applies to the current situation.

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

A nuclear weapon is the best defensive weapon there is.

 

A number of them in different locations that can all be set off remotely, you're country is safe.

 

The American Industrial Complex is really struggling to get this war off the ground! Just look how hard they're trying to! 

 

So by that "rationale" the NPT is actually a hindrance to world peace? Less problems if anyone and everyone got them.

Banging on about the "American Industrial Complex" if fun. Obviously nothing in the situation got anything to do with Kim's actions and choices.

 

 

[Jdiddy]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

MAD works (if it indeed does) if both sides adhere to a similar concept of the "rules". I don't know that this applies to the current situation.

 

Why not? Self preservation is mutual, rules or no rules

[farcanell]

52 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I can assure you the Domino Theory is dead and does not have any modern day adherents.  

And the experts say....

 

http://inhomelandsecurity.com/the-domino-theory-in-the-21st-century/

 

now whilst they may be right... or may be wrong, what is undeniable is that the domino theory is far from dead... and definitely does have modern day adherents

[smutcakes]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

While the nuclear arsenal maybe a defensive weapon- this is only true until a rogue country such as NKorea or Iran determines they want to use one of their weapons or they allow one of the weapons to slip into the hands of a terrorist organization that wants to use it to destroy a civilization that it disagrees with.  

Neither NKorea or Iran have proved to be established guardians of nuclear weapons and have committed atrocities that proves they cannot be trusted with the nuclear option. Mr. Kim would starve his whole country to continue his nuclear program and the Ayatollahs of Iran would use their religious furor to try and convert the infidels and eliminate those who refused.In addition- neither country would have any qualms of selling a nuclear weapon to a terrorist group.

Bit of a troll i will admit, but how may North Koreans die at the guns of their own fellow citizens each year?

[craigt3365]

26 minutes ago, Jdiddy said:

A good offense and MAD is the best defense, hence nuclear weapons are a great defensive weapon.

 

Name me one nuclear armed country that has been invaded and "liberated"

Not that many non nuclear armed countries have been invaded and liberated.  The current nuclear powers are too big anyway to invade, nukes or not. 

 

How about name me one Western country that has been invaded and liberated post WWII?

[craigt3365]

27 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

A nuclear weapon is the best defensive weapon there is.

 

A number of them in different locations that can all be set off remotely, you're country is safe.

 

The American Industrial Complex is really struggling to get this war off the ground! Just look how hard they're trying to! 

Again, a great conspiracy theory.  Which has been debunked if you take the time to do some research.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2017/05/08/eisenhowers-military-industrial-complex-shrinks-to-1-of-economy/#16463dcfbed1

Quote

 

So a sprawling defense sector dedicated to making advanced weapons came into being, which President Dwight Eisenhower memorably described in his farewell address on January 17, 1961, as the "military-industrial complex."

 

That phrase became the basis for endless conspiracy theories about the undue influence that arms merchants supposedly exercised over government decisions. The theories typically argue that senior military officers, industry executives and key members of Congress collude to drive up weapons spending and distort national priorities.

 

 

[lannarebirth]

7 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

I guess the US is pissed because NK didnt buy its uranium from the Clintons

Maybe they did through an intermediary.

[amvet]

4 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Bit of a troll i will admit, but how may North Koreans die at the guns of their own fellow citizens each year?

Are you counting anti aircraft guns? 

[craigt3365]

Just now, amvet said:

Are you counting anti aircraft guns? 

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, Jdiddy said:

 

Why not? Self preservation is mutual, rules or no rules

 

Because it relies on both sides making a reliable assessment of each other's moves. I don't think that what passes for "self preservation" by one side fully corresponds to the other's concept.

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Not that many non nuclear armed countries have been invaded and liberated.  The current nuclear powers are too big anyway to invade, nukes or not. 

 

How about name me one Western country that has been invaded and liberated post WWII?

Not that many? So a few. And how many nuclear armed states have been invaded? You seem to have overlooked answering that one.

[ThaiFelix]

11 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Bit of a troll i will admit, but how may North Koreans die at the guns of their own fellow citizens each year?

How would we really know??  The only news we get on the subject comes from western media...most of which is doubtful at the very least.

[craigt3365]

6 minutes ago, baboon said:

Not that many? So a few. And how many nuclear armed states have been invaded? You seem to have overlooked answering that one.

You didn't answer my question either. Overlooked that one also?

 

4 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

How would we really know??  The only news we get on the subject comes from western media...most of which is doubtful at the very least.

Right.  I trust the news coming out of Russia and China much more than that coming out of the West. LOL

[balo]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Since I was a young man drafted into the US Army  during the Vietnam era- I am well aware of the Domino Theory and at that time argued against it as a reason America should be in Vietnam. In fact, I wanted to refuse to go into the Army at the time because I waas very much against the war but pressure from my family - especially my father who served in WWII forced me to acquiesce to entering the military.

 

Did you kill anyone , I hope not , it must have been terrible for you, just finished watching a new TV series about the Vietnam war.  Living in fear of getting shot every day sounds like hell . 

 

 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

You didn't answer my question either. Overlooked that one also?

 

Right.  I trust the news coming out of Russia and China much more than that coming out of the West. LOL

Exactly. No nuclear armed states have been invaded, though why you couldn't have just admitted that in the first place is beyond me.

 

The 'question' of yours that I did not answer was firstly asked of another poster and secondly, rhetorical anyway. There is no need to or point to answering it.

[Fore Man]

38 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

How would we really know??  The only news we get on the subject comes from western media...most of which is doubtful at the very least.

Untrue.  There are countless reports made by nK citizens who escaped the regime and its continual atrocities, making their way somewhat dangerously through China and eventually on to their new adopted homelands in far better conditions. Because NK is a closed society, we don’t learn enough about how strong of a rebellious spirit might be affecting the abused segment of the population.  Makes me wonder though. You’d think there’d be widespread discontent, ripe for fomenting revolution. 

[baboon]

14 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

Untrue.  There are countless reports made by nK citizens who escaped the regime and its continual atrocities, making their way somewhat dangerously through China and eventually on to their new adopted homelands in far better conditions. Because NK is a closed society, we don’t learn enough about how strong of a rebellious spirit might be affecting the abused segment of the population.  Makes me wonder though. You’d think there’d be widespread discontent, ripe for fomenting revolution. 

The book "North Korea Confidential" goes a long way towards answering many of your questions. Do try and blag yourself a copy if you possibly can. Their society is a far cry from what it was at the turn of the century and I don't see it going back to the way it was under Kim Il Sung / first few years of Kim Jong Il. 

[Thaidream]

NKOrea is a dictatorship- the average person has no access to guns; they are watched and listened in to 24/7- there is no organized resistance and most of its population is brainwashed after decades of the Kim regime.

The current nuclear powers have shown that they can possess these weapons in a responsible way but it would be most preferable if these countries accelerated their denuclearization.  No other Nations should be allowed to possess nuclear weapons especially NKorea and Iran-   The US has no reason to invade NKorea or Iran nor does it plan on doing so unless attacked regardless of all the rhetoric. 

However, both NKOrea and Iran  have supported terrorist organizations and will continue to do so unless checked. Iran does not possess nuclear weapons and they have agreed to limit their nuclear program regardless of what Donald Trump advocates. NKorea has nuclear weapons and because it cannot show that it can be trusted with these weapons must come to the table and negotiate their disposition. China and Russia can help provide the solution. NKOrea would be smart to listen and concentrate on tourism and enhancing its economy instead of diverting needed money to a weapons program that it cannot afford and the World rejects .

 

 

[sawadeeken]

7 hours ago, Fore Man said:

I hate to say or even consider this, but...to put it succinctly:

 

”Nuke ‘em, Danno!”

 

Diplomatic efforts will not likely succeed in bringing about a softening of the nK’s hard-line stance on building and maintaining nuclear weapons. Since 1953, the Kim Dynasty has played the West in the manner of master puppeteers, continually drawing a succession of lines in the sand and forcing massive concessions in foreign aid money that never produced any productive results, at the same time spreading its sinister industries and nefarious deeds throughout the world. 

 

I’m no clairvoyant, but the insidious threats posed by the churlish and unpredictable Kim Junior must be stopped...and sooner than later.  The only way this seems possible would be to flatten his country with immediate, comprehensive and perfectly-orchestrated retaliatory strikes if and when he launches...or heaven forbid...succeeds in detonating his threatened North Pacific air burst. Prior to such an endangering test, it is unlikely the US would attack preemptively, but given sufficient provocation, the hermit kingdom, its people and its nutcase leadership could be transformed into radioactive toast in a matter of hours. This could very likely be accomplished not with regionally destructive, high megatonnage strategic nukes but with synchronized volleys of tactical nuclear weapons, perhaps in the order of 500 kilotons to 1 megaton,  simultaneously striking key targets throughout the nation so as to deny the enemy any ability to respond. In doing so, the downwind radioactive threats to South Korea and Japan could be minimized.  Simultaneously, massive coordinated strikes of conventional weapons could be employed in the vicinity of the DMZ and Sino-Russian border areas that minimize nuclear effects in neighboring countries, but convincingly destroying nK ground assault forces and their highly lethal supporting arms.

 

The fallout of any war plan, pun well intended, is how the surviving peoples of the north can move forward, rebuild anew and flourish over time in a life without a cruel dictatorship ruling over them. Such a reconstruction would be an enormous burden on the ROK, the US and the world community.  You can bet that it is not only the prosecution of war that worries US and allied planners, but indeed in dealing with the aftermath. Removing the longstanding buffer zone between the US and China would create yet another geopolitical dilemma. 

 

No matter how it sorts out, one truth looms over us: that we can not tolerate a rogue northeast Asian tyrant any longer, who is freely allowed to threaten the safety and future of many other nations within his rapidly expanding nuclear capability. 

 

There is no easy solution...but there is a solution.

Not to worry................... a third (US) carrier group is headed that way.......... a few more days we will have all the 'furies of Hell' in His backyard....... And that is 'very likely the plan'............

Very likely also...... MUCH allied help will be right behind 'us' ........

Edit to add...... And it will have a  'two-fold' benefit as Iran will also see what a price 'they' could pay......

Edited October 26, 2017 by sawadeeken
add a line

[baboon]

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

NKOrea is a dictatorship- the average person has no access to guns; they are watched and listened in to 24/7- there is no organized resistance and most of its population is brainwashed after decades of the Kim regime.

The current nuclear powers have shown that they can possess these weapons in a responsible way but it would be most preferable if these countries accelerated their denuclearization.  No other Nations should be allowed to possess nuclear weapons especially NKorea and Iran-   The US has no reason to invade NKorea or Iran nor does it plan on doing so unless attacked regardless of all the rhetoric. 

However, both NKOrea and Iran  have supported terrorist organizations and will continue to do so unless checked. Iran does not possess nuclear weapons and they have agreed to limit their nuclear program regardless of what Donald Trump advocates. NKorea has nuclear weapons and because it cannot show that it can be trusted with these weapons must come to the table and negotiate their disposition. China and Russia can help provide the solution. NKOrea would be smart to listen and concentrate on tourism and enhancing its economy instead of diverting needed money to a weapons program that it cannot afford and the World rejects .

 

 

'...because we say so.'

[ThaiFelix]

22 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

Untrue.  There are countless reports made by nK citizens who escaped the regime and its continual atrocities, making their way somewhat dangerously through China and eventually on to their new adopted homelands in far better conditions. Because NK is a closed society, we don’t learn enough about how strong of a rebellious spirit might be affecting the abused segment of the population.  Makes me wonder though. You’d think there’d be widespread discontent, ripe for fomenting revolution. 

Yes there have been those who escaped to tell their tales but I dont think very many?  I could be wrong but I have heard of only a few.

 

Very interesting thought re the apparent lack of internal opposition to Mr Kim.  Some could argue its due to fear of their brutal ruler/s.  I dont buy that.  The brutality of the French and the South Vietnamese Govt didnt lessen the drive and determination of the Viet Minh or Viet Cong,  it tended more to fuel it.   However if there was in fact any internal opposition and discontent, you would think the CIA would already be there stirring the pot.   Yes, very interesting question.

[amvet]

5 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Yes there have been those who escaped to tell their tales but I dont think very many?  I could be wrong but I have heard of only a few.

 

Very interesting thought re the apparent lack of internal opposition to Mr Kim.  Some could argue its due to fear of their brutal ruler/s.  I dont buy that.  The brutality of the French and the South Vietnamese Govt didnt lessen the drive and determination of the Viet Minh or Viet Cong,  it tended more to fuel it.   However if there was in fact any internal opposition and discontent, you would think the CIA would already be there stirring the pot.   Yes, very interesting question.

Mao killed 45 million in China.  Stalin 50 million.  Makes Ho Chi Minh killing only a million or so seem like a nice guy. 

[shoupy]

Meanwhile, a North Korean Romeo Class submarine which left port three weeks ago with 20 suicide commandos slowly makes its way toward the Potomac River.