Condo Finance Error

[Willy86]

Hi,

 

Me and my wife recently went to complete the refinancing of our condominium at the land office (LO). Upon going there with the relevant banks to do paper work handover it was discovered that there was an error...

 

We originally bought our condo directly from a top Thai development company that handled the original registration for us. It seems somewhere in the process my wife was listed as being single by mistake (and not married) when they submitted the documents to the LO. When we submitted all of our new refinance documents at the LO recently we were told that we can't complete the finance transfer between banks because the original finance agreement was under my wife's name with her being 'single' after the date of our marriage certificate, and all our refinance documents were as us being married.

 

We were told of two ways out.

 

• She can sell the condo and then we can buy it back as being married (obvs. this incurs fees)
• Divorce and marry again. The new marriage certificate will be dated after the initial finance agreement that the LO has on record, so there is no problem

 

So a bit of a strange one... Anyone experienced anything similar?

 

Thanks,

Willy

 

[Peterw42]

I always thought you coudnt have joint ownership of a condo, married or not. Is it foreign ownership or Thai ? I think you will find it has to be one or the other, you cant have half the condo in the 49% foreign ownership and the other half in the 51% Thai ownership.

Who is listed on the chanote as the owner of the condo ? Whos name is the existing mortgage in ? If its in your wifes name, you cant get joint ownership by refinancing.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Peterw42

[steve187]

getting divorced and remarry, due to a form error, what a load of s**t advise

 

top and Thai in the same sentence is very rare

[Willy86]

14 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I always thought you coudnt have joint ownership of a condo, married or not. Is it foreign ownership or Thai ? I think you will find it has to be one or the other, you cant have half the condo in the 49% foreign ownership and the other half in the 51% Thai ownership.

Just to clarify the condo is owned by my wife. What we are talking about here is the finance agreement.

 

The original bank has me on the old finance application, and the new bank too. But somehow the LO record shows the original finance was for a single person.

[Willy86]

16 minutes ago, steve187 said:

getting divorced and remarry, due to a form error, what a load of s**t advise

 

top and Thai in the same sentence is very rare

We have lived here just over 3 years. The condo is maintained and run amazing well with great staff, very professional, no complaints whatsoever :-)

[trogers]

17 minutes ago, Willy86 said:

Just to clarify the condo is owned by my wife. What we are talking about here is the finance agreement.

 

The original bank has me on the old finance application, and the new bank too. But somehow the LO record shows the original finance was for a single person.

Condo is owned solely by your wife. So no mistake on property ownership.

 

Original finance also shown your wife as sole owner. Where is the mistake? You are probably just a guarantor on her mortgage, and not a co-owner.

 

So, now you want refinance papers to show your wife and you as co-owners?

[Willy86]

41 minutes ago, trogers said:

Condo is owned solely by your wife. So no mistake on property ownership.

 

Original finance also shown your wife as sole owner. Where is the mistake? You are probably just a guarantor on her mortgage, and not a co-owner.

 

So, now you want refinance papers to show your wife and you as co-owners?

Original finance we are married. New finance we are married. Problem appears to have been somewhere in the original submission process, somehow my wife was listed by mistake as being single in the official record.

 

My part of the finance paperwork, which was in English, stated I am the 'grantor'. Family Law... I grant my wife permission to refinance etc. that's all.

 

[trogers]

9 minutes ago, Willy86 said:

Original finance we are married. New finance we are married. Problem appears to have been somewhere in the original submission process, somehow my wife was listed by mistake as being single in the official record.

 

My part of the finance paperwork, which was in English, stated I am the 'grantor'. Family Law... I grant my wife permission to refinance etc. that's all.

 

That means the developer did not get you to sign forms permitting your wife to buy a condo under her name, and declaring the purchase as with her own money.

 

She has probably bought under the 51% Thai-owned quota and the developer didn't want to encounter rejection from the Land Office on the grounds that her husband is a foreigner.

[cheeryble]

This is one of the good reasons businesslike Thais (and I until I'm decrepit) don't get officially married as both parties have to agree to anything official and it can be a pain......as you are now experiencing. 

 

Good luck.

[Delight]

 When you say ' We were told of two ways out. '-did this advice come from the L.O.?

 

If so option 2 i.e divorce and remarry -must be the way forward.

An uncontested divorce is simple to undertake. Just a trip to the local Amphur.

 

 

 

 

[pumpjack]

hey man..sounds to me like   your wifes gonna fleece you !!! 

 

she,ll sell the unit for x millions and you think she will still be around ? 

 

are you sure its not a carefully planned scam ?  i wouldnt be so sure....hope im wrong for your sake and good luck with it

Edited October 28, 2017 by pumpjack

[Delight]

20 minutes ago, pumpjack said:

hey man..sounds to me like   your wifes gonna fleece you !!! 

 

she,ll sell the unit for x millions and you think she will still be around ? 

 

are you sure its not a carefully planned scam ?  i wouldnt be so sure....hope im wrong for your sake and good luck with it

 The OP states that the condo is already in his wife's name. Right now he owns 0%

In the strict sense with divorce he will own 50%.

 

This assumes that  the condo was acquired during the time of the marriage..

Difficult to see the scam

Edited October 28, 2017 by Delight
typo

[Sydebolle]

Had a similar problem (oversight, as they called it at the end). Assuming that you can prove that you married prior to purchasing the property - then go back to the seller (Thai developer) and tell them about the problem. 
They will have to attest that they made a mistake, mix-up or whatever which resulted in this irregularity and have it corrected, at their costs. Always assuming that you've told them then already what the facts were. If they don't move or refuse to admit their mistake then threaten them with social media (FB, Twitter as well as all local platforms in Thai). Did the trick in my case. 
In closing, it remains your responsibility each and every time to check everything. 

I had property bought in the name of my (grown) kids; the land department made a mistake at the ID number. When addressed they said "never mind, can be done when you sell the property again"; I insisted on correcting it now. Glad I did as the nightmare years later would have cost not only nerves but money and some non-receiptable outlays for the ever-empty coffee bank! 

[realenglish1]

Don't  you get it It is not a good idea to own property in Thailand It is slanted to Thais  Just from the registration process you are excluded

 

Or you can sue the Builder for the screw up

[cheeryble]

3 hours ago, realenglish1 said:

Don't  you get it It is not a good idea to own property in Thailand It is slanted to Thais  Just from the registration process you are excluded

 

This is news.

Which bit of the condo act is slanted, and specifically which statute excludes us during the registration process?

[inThailand]

It sounds fishy to me.

You paid but only single woman listed as owner. For sure at least two can be listed as owners.

 

Are you even legally married?

 

Pay the transfer fees to only your name.

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by inThailand

[csabo]

Someone else made a mistake so it's the farangs fault. Typical Thai mentality. I bought some pork ribs at Tesco today. The "pork girl" was not at her station so had it weighed out by the "chicken girl". I already knew how this was gonna go. I go to check out and the checkout girl scans the tag. Beep, followed by confused look. Beep again. Beep a third time. Then she looks at me, holds up the bag of pork and says "cannot". I said "I don't work here. Figure it out. If you can't figure it out I'll take the meat for free". It took three of them 5 minutes to sort it all out but the obvious vibe through the whole event was it was all the farang fault. Tell whoever has a monetary interest in your refinancing to fix it and don't do another thing. Whoever told you to get divorced and remarried or sell your condo to yourself should be fed to crocodiles as that type of logical reasoning needs to be eliminated from the gene pool of humanity. 

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, csabo said:

Someone else made a mistake so it's the farangs fault. Typical Thai mentality. I bought some pork ribs at Tesco today. The "pork girl" was not at her station so had it weighed out by the "chicken girl". I already knew how this was gonna go. I go to check out and the checkout girl scans the tag. Beep, followed by confused look. Beep again. Beep a third time. Then she looks at me, holds up the bag of pork and says "cannot". I said "I don't work here. Figure it out. If you can't figure it out I'll take the meat for free". It took three of them 5 minutes to sort it all out but the obvious vibe through the whole event was it was all the farang fault. Tell whoever has a monetary interest in your refinancing to fix it and don't do another thing. Whoever told you to get divorced and remarried or sell your condo to yourself should be fed to crocodiles as that type of logical reasoning needs to be eliminated from the gene pool of humanity. 

Haha, it can be amusing. I got some of those discount vouchers for Tesco and the wife said use these next time you buy. So I did... of course at checkout it would not scan, but it was apparent I was using it correctly. So now we get one of those embarrassing stand-offs where 3-4 different assistants or whatever arrived and all tried to do exactly the same thing as the last one. I sort of felt embarrassed holding people up, but was getting a bit of amusement and deliberately hung back to watch the pantomime. Eventually I asked for the coupon back, ripped it into 8 pieces and scattered it. Boy I got dirty looks, but was able to get out of there.

[trogers]

4 hours ago, inThailand said:

It sounds fishy to me.

You paid but only single woman listed as owner. For sure at least two can be listed as owners.

 

Are you even legally married?

 

Pay the transfer fees to only your name.

 

A couple - one foreigner and one Thai.

 

Would depend if such an action causes the 49% foreign-owned quota be exceeded.

[Delight]

9 hours ago, trogers said:

A couple - one foreigner and one Thai.

 

Would depend if such an action causes the 49% foreign-owned quota be exceeded.

Going  off topic slightly.

According to the Thai Law

Joint ownership can only occur where the apartment is in the foreign 49%. i.e. the  foreign 49% becomes diluted with Thai ownership

It can never occur in the Thai 51%.

[BEVUP]

On 10/27/2017 at 10:33 AM, trogers said:

Condo is owned solely by your wife. So no mistake on property ownership.

 

Original finance also shown your wife as sole owner. Where is the mistake? You are probably just a guarantor on her mortgage, and not a co-owner.

 

So, now you want refinance papers to show your wife and you as co-owners?

This sounds the case, Guarantor, as it would be much easier to get the loan with just one borrower (esp. Thai ) - First thing Toyota said to me (If not me no sale )

Land office & developer couldn't give a crap about who was on the approved Finance (non of their business (they only want to see it approved )

As others mentioned It also would of been easier with the Condo Quota

? Did you sign anything at the LO

[tolsti]

13 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Haha, it can be amusing. I got some of those discount vouchers for Tesco and the wife said use these next time you buy. So I did... of course at checkout it would not scan, but it was apparent I was using it correctly. So now we get one of those embarrassing stand-offs where 3-4 different assistants or whatever arrived and all tried to do exactly the same thing as the last one. I sort of felt embarrassed holding people up, but was getting a bit of amusement and deliberately hung back to watch the pantomime. Eventually I asked for the coupon back, ripped it into 8 pieces and scattered it. Boy I got dirty looks, but was able to get out of there.

are you sure it was 8 different pieces? Really? so it was 3-4 different staff but definitely 8 pieces?

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, tolsti said:

are you sure it was 8 different pieces? Really? so it was 3-4 different staff but definitely 8 pieces?

Yes, when you rip in half, repeat and repeat again, you get 8.

[david555]

On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 5:12 PM, Delight said:

Going  off topic slightly.

According to the Thai Law

Joint ownership can only occur where the apartment is in the foreign 49%. i.e. the  foreign 49% becomes diluted with Thai ownership

It can never occur in the Thai 51%.

It looks more that the developer made this "mistake " deliberately to smoothing a sale from a Thai quota condo and let the farang pay and thinking he owns a condo together with Thai wife .....Another more reason always take a English speaking lawyer in to control the sale ....lawyer money that save you big money later

[cheeryble]

4 hours ago, david555 said:

It looks more that the developer made this "mistake " deliberately to smoothing a sale from a Thai quota condo and let the farang pay and thinking he owns a condo together with Thai wife .....Another more reason always take a English speaking lawyer in to control the sale ....lawyer money that save you big money later

The OP thinks he owns the condo with his wife? I don't recall him saying that.

[david555]

7 hours ago, cheeryble said:

The OP thinks he owns the condo with his wife? I don't recall him saying that.

NO...?  His first opening line : " Me and my wife recently went to complete the refinancing of our condominium at the land office "    

 

So I don't know how to read that in a other way ...

Edited November 1, 2017 by david555

[cheeryble]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

NO...?  His first opening line : " Me and my wife recently went to complete the refinancing of our condominium at the land office "    

 

So I don't know how to read that in a other way ...

Hmmm I think the "our" was not meant strictly.

Bit like i say "my country" but in fact it's owned by the 1% :)

Further down:

Just to clarify the condo is owned by my wife. What we are talking about here is the finance agreement.

Edited November 1, 2017 by cheeryble

[david555]

18 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

Hmmm I think the "our" was not meant strictly.

Bit like i say "my country" but in fact it's owned by the 1% :)

Further down:

Just to clarify the condo is owned by my wife. What we are talking about here is the finance agreement.

That is wen he more deeper realized the situation probably ....... find it strange a developer did not saw they where married .... strange very strange .,.....but very convenient for the sale to put it like this on the papers .....another successful sale for a in Thai name dead as a dodo condo (as so many ...)

however ...a glass is half full or empty ...

BTW owning a country "my country " is not strict to take ... but a condo you paid ....more likely to see it so

[trogers]

His surprise was not that his wife is the sole owner of the condo.

 

His surprise was that his wife was registered as a single (unmarried) woman during the transfer of title.

 

I suspect that this can only happen when his wife still carried the title Nang Sau in her ID card.

Edited November 1, 2017 by trogers

[david555]

1 minute ago, trogers said:

His surprise was not that his wife is the sole owner of the condo.

 

His surprise was that his wife was registered as a single (unmarried) woman during the transfer of title.

Yes on that point we drifted away from the center of the topic ...true.....but that does not take me away from the strange thing the developer took maybe the easy way for him to conclude the sale ..... that is still my point .... that one is at first fault ....he should remark that unless the fault Is with the marriage documents making people .....but no .... Thai  can not make a fault ......farang fault .. if not there would not be so becoming ...(lol)

Edited November 1, 2017 by david555