Thai road carnage: A MILLION injuries and 24,000 deaths per year, official admits

[Media1]

23 hours ago, Sirbergan said:

The fine for riding without a license is like 400 baht, perhaps they should start there? Doesn't help much to have your license revoked when you can easily drive without it.

No 1000

[Media1]

On 10/28/2017 at 12:48 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Priorities... Priorities....

 

Anyone got any submarines or tanks for sale? Price is no object....

Yes these people can't govern a toilet bowl.

[Airbagwill]

I’m sure list of the same stats are very reassuring but they have no real value unless sensibly interpreted and put into context.

They are here mostly being used just as a form of confirmation bias with no real consideration given to their meaning.

 

It is symptomatic of many people who get hold of a computer late in life that they really don’t know how to research - so they fill that skill gap by searching with Google.

Unfortunately searching and research are not the same, unless you put in “uselful” search parameters you are all going to come up with the same bumf - namely death rates instead of road safety.

 

What is happening here has been defined since the 1960s - long before Google as the streetlight effect.

 

A cop sees a drunk searching for something under a streetlight and asks what he has lost. He says he lost his keys and they both look under the streetlight together. After a few minutes the policeman asks if he is sure he lost them here, and the drunk replies, no, and that he lost them in the park. The policeman asks why he is searching here, and the drunk replies, "this is where the light is".

 

 

 

[Artisi]

On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 12:08 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I reckon if you added a mandatory police attitude to anyone not wearing a helmet who gets fined more than once for not wearing one, should not be aloud to ride a motorbike for a year, add another two years for every time they get caught riding a bike without one.

 

Less split heads on the road saves lives.

Please explain just how you would enforce the not allowed to ride for a year, the BIB can't enforce anything for example, drunk driving /riding, no licence, or ignoring the no licence law after being caught, no vehicle tax, drive at any speed you like, drive on whatever side of the road you choose - in fact do whatever you want when you want where ever you like. 

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, Frotting said:

A comparison with other countries.  

 

Road Fatalities 2016

 

USA  37,461    (population 323.1 million) (Source WHO).            Death rate : 0.012% per capita

UK  1,792    (population 65.64 million)  (source: Dept of Transport).     Death rate:  0.0027% per capita

AUS  1,295  (population 24.13 million) (Source: Dept of Infrastructure).    Death rate : 0.0054% per capita

THAI 24,237 (population 68.86 million) (Source WHO - figure is for 2013, 2016 figures not available, but likely higher than 2013).   Death rate : 0.035% per capita

 

Not all figures are available for 2016, so here is a shortlist of road deaths for 2013 (Source WHO):

 

Nigeria:  43,332  (pop 186 million)  Death rate:  0.023% per capita

India :  207,551 (pop 1.324 billion)  Death rate:  0.016% per capita

China:   261,387 (pop 1.379 billion)  Death rate:  0.019% per capita

Cambodia:  3,120  (pop 15.76 million) Death rate:  0.0198% per capita

Ethiopia: 29,146 (pop 102.4 million)  Death rate:  0.028% per capita

France:  3,268 (pop 66.9 million)  Death rate:  0.0049% per capita

Ireland:  188 (pop 4.78 million)  Death rate:  0.0039% per capita

Singapore: 197 (pop 5.6 million)  Death rate:  0.0035% per capita

Libya:  4,500 (pop 6.196 million)  Death rate:  0.073% per capita

 

The above seems to confirm what the WHO and other analyses state, though I have done the calculations myself as some of these analyses are not reliable.  It would appear that Libya is worse than Thailand in terms of road deaths per capita, though the population of Libya is small and likely getting smaller.  They were also at war during the years these figures were collected, so cannot be 100% reliable (some deaths may have been lumped together with land mines, shootings, unexploded ordinance, etc).  In addition, very few people go there either on holiday or for business, so the risk is mitigated.

 

All in all, we have to conclude Thailand poses the greatest risk of being killed in a road traffic accident nearly two orders of magnitude greater than Europe or Australia.  Singapore is on a par with Europe in terms of road safety, and Cambodia is not as bad as people think - maybe as a result of smaller population/less traffic.

 

So why is the rate of road deaths nearly 100 times higher than Europe?  I leave it to you to figure that one out.

Great Posting.

 

As you say, orders of magnitude higher.  I'm just left to think there is something in the Thai character that does not lend itself to road safety.

 

 

[Artisi]

4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Great Posting.

 

As you say, orders of magnitude higher.  I'm just left to think there is something in the Thai character that does not lend itself to road safety.

 

 

What you are looking for is me, me, me and me first. 

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, Artisi said:

What you are looking for is me, me, me and me first. 

Yes, understand what you are saying, but that adds a moralistic nuance- it's something more profound than that; it's almost national low level autism!

 

One telling thing: in UK (I assume US, AUS, etc) we flash our headlights to signal we are ceding right of way to help another driver who may be in a sticky situation, whereas Thais use the same signal to signify the opposite, ie, your look out because I'm coming through.  It sums it up for me.

[ianf]

On 10/28/2017 at 12:08 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I reckon if you added a mandatory police attitude to anyone not wearing a helmet who gets fined more than once for not wearing one, should not be aloud to ride a motorbike for a year, add another two years for every time they get caught riding a bike without one.

 

Less split heads on the road saves lives.

People should not be allowed (aloud...sic) to ride WITHOUT a helment including those stupid farangs on big bikes who think they are so cool and clever riding around lidless.

But that's only part of the story.

The main reasons there are so many accidents are three-fold.

1. They can't drive. Period. Unbelievable stupid maneuvers with cars and motorbikes. They have not been taught how to read the road so when they built a new road near us with a semi-circle and adjoining roads it's hilarious watching them trying to work out what they should do even though it is blindingly obvious.

2. Yes drink driving. Last night I watched a family out for a late meal with two small children (7 people). Father, and I presume dad-in-law share 1.5 bottles of whisky then get in their pick up and drive off with all members of their family getting in the car and seemingly allowing them to do so. Utter irresponsible madness.

3. The sheer arrogance of the drivers. The better your vehicle, it seems, the more you have the right to bully your way around ignoring other road users. And hey, don't you dare raise and questions about the quality of their driving. Loss of face seems to be one of the killers.

 

The answer to all of this? Take away everyone's license, get the drivers trained properly with real driving tests on the road, train the police to behave responsibly and to apprehend bad drivers and don't allow small kids on motorbikes either as drivers or as the third, fourth or even fifth passenger. It ain't going to happen is it? So we'll continue to kill the contents of a small town on the roads every year. At least it's a  form of population control.

Edited October 29, 2017 by ianf

[Rangerdriver]

 
the vast majority of locals dont have a great education (even if they have been to university), awareness or experience of anything different this way of behaving is 'normal' and therefore within their expectations of how life is and so have no incentive to change.
 
what is disappointing is some thais have been educated and have lived abroad, they have seen and know it doesn't have to be this way and yet they do absolutely nothing to drive forward change for the better. i was saddened by the ex PM who lived in the uk for most of his life and was educated to a high level, i felt he would be a catalyst for positive change but he achieved noting.

Me first,me now,me only

He was doing well until removed for going against flow too much. Now I hear many Thai people want him back.

Sent from my ASUS_Z002 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[YetAnother]

18 minutes ago, ianf said:

People should not be allowed (aloud...sic) to ride WITHOUT a helment including those stupid farangs on big bikes who think they are so cool and clever riding around lidless.

But that's only part of the story.

The main reasons there are so many accidents are three-fold.

1. They can't drive. Period. Unbelievable stupid maneuvers with cars and motorbikes. They have not been taught how to read the road so when they built a new road near us with a semi-circle and adjoining roads it's hilarious watching them trying to work out what they should do even though it is blindingly obvious.

2. Yes drink driving. Last night I watched a family out for a late meal with two small children (7 people). Father, and I presume dad-in-law share 1.5 bottles of whisky then get in their pick up and drive off with all members of their family getting in the car and seemingly allowing them to do so. Utter irresponsible madness.

3. The sheer arrogance of the drivers. The better your vehicle, it seems, the more you have the right to bully your way around ignoring other road users. And hey, don't you dare raise and questions about the quality of their driving. Loss of face seems to be one of the killers.

 

The answer to all of this? Take away everyone's license, get the drivers trained properly with real driving tests on the road, train the police to behave responsibly and to apprehend bad drivers and don't allow small kids on motorbikes either as drivers or as the third, fourth or even fifth passenger. It ain't going to happen is it? So we'll continue to kill the contents of a small town on the roads every year. At least it's a  form of population control.

cultural issue: thais Just Dont Care

[Jonah Tenner]

23 hours ago, Rangerdriver said:

What happened to the target of 13000 deaths a year on the road. Did that get swept under the rug too?

 

They have achieved that, now they are working to double it...

[hobz]

There's <deleted> in all countries. Education goes far. But not all the way.

Thats why there's other incentives to make people follow the rules: law enforcement (and other cars honking their horns perhaps, not sure). This does not exist in thailand. There are never consequences.

 

I blame government and traffic  police chiefs for failing to do their jobs to ensure road safety.

 

I put their failure equal to treason. I think in thailand as many countries treason can mean death penalty or life in jail. 

[Airbagwill]

Most of the posts on this thread are “flat-earther” comments - based on limited anecdotal interpretations of personal experience - the “I” witness.

 

Countries’ variations in death rates are not down to how stupid a population is there are many other factors.

One problem in Thailand is the potentially lethal combination of modes of transport - a deadly mix of pickups and motorcycles; the over-confident and the vulnerable.

 

Once a crash is in progress it is for the most part, no longer in the hands of the driver, what happens next is down to the vehicle and the environment.

Pickups in particular are bad in crashes - they are more likely to injure or kill other road-users (3^rd Parties) and don’t take very good care of their own occupants either. They have poor energy absorption and a high centre of gravity that makes them more liable to roll over.

Statistically Buses and Minivans are FAR safer, but you wouldn’t believe that if your only source of info was your local media.... bus crashes are “buzzworthy”

 

Motorcycles in Thailand present a totally different demographic to those in such places as Australia, Europe or UK. There are far more in Thailand and their use is ubiquitous. Motorcyclists are in the “highly vulnerable” category and in Thailand; this is 83% of all fatalities of which motorcycles are about 73% of all fatalities the remaining 10% being made up by pedestrians and cyclists. This is one figure that truly stands out as particular to Thailand alone.

However if you are in a private 4-wheel vehicle, your chances of death work out to be about the same as in the USA. (This isn’t saying much -it needs to be tempered with the knowledge that the USA has a death rate nearly 4 times higher than the top EU countries.)

 

Another problem when commenting on road safety in Thailand is the lack of good statistics. In fact the only stats available seem to be for actual deaths, which make an overall picture rather difficult.

The international norm for collating information is to examine every reported crash and repot it in terms of 3 grades - fatalities, serious injuries and minor injuries. This is simply not done on a consistent year round basis. In fact the gathering of statistics doesn’t really seem to be allotted to any one body in particular. The police seem to be the main source but they really don’t seem to be trained to do this - or at least don’t have their heart in it.

Analysis of crashes in Thailand is virtually nil.

 

There is also the problem of using and interpreting the stats that are available - in Thailand that means “death stats”

But in most cases only one set is used - the number of deaths per 100k population.

This ignores

·      Deaths par 100k vehicle

·      Kilometers travelled

·      Car ownership

·      Traffic density

·      Miles of road per country and types of road...

 

None of this is ever referred to. In fact on a worldwide basis Thailand fares much better on the other scales than on the famed Death per 100k.

 

Moreover, it would appear that Thailand has almost the same number of vehicle crashes as the UK - which is one of the “safest” countries in the world, so how come so many more die in Thailand?

 

It seems to me that those with no real understanding of road safety or even statistics are prepared to jump to conclusions about road safety in Thailand that are in reality quite bizarre when one takes a more thorough look at the evidence.

 

So next time you see some bad driving - consider it in terms of road safety (not just driving) - is it really that different from elsewhere? Are you pandering to cognitive bias, being racist or just making a false syllogism?

 

 

 

 

[Airbagwill]

Road safety for dummies - it’s a lot more than “driving”

 

The key to ALL health &safety is to stop dummies doing what comes naturally, what they instinctively want to do.

There are various ways to tackling this that have been proved successful - training workplace design, engineering, monitoring and evaluation.

 

The problem is when this is successful, the “dummies” then refer to their own safety record and think it it they themselves who should take credit for the improvements they experience.  They are of course too dumb to realise that they are in fact still dummies and it is others who by modifying the environment are protecting them fro their own stupidity.

 

They still think because they can drive a vehicle, they must be experts - even more so if they don’t have a crash, but they fail to realise that they are subject to the 5 Es of motoring which when applied properly, prevent millions of injuries and save thousands of lives.

 

Those 5 Es are

1.     Education

2.     Enforcement

3.     Engineering

4.     Emergency

5.     Evaluation

 

No amount of ranting and raving about isolated driving  issues - like “tailgating” “manners” - “speeding” or even Drink drive” will have any real effect until the whole driving environment in Thailand is addressed properly. ...and the less this is recognised the further away the country gets from a sustainable solution.

 

Despite new roads (all poorly designed and constructed), more advance vehicles - the death toll continues to rise and this won’t stop until someone in authority gets informed that it is not DRIVNG, it is ROAD SAFETY that needs to be addressed.

[jvs]

When i see some Thai drivers with absolutely no regard for their own life how much do you think they care about anyone else?

[cracker1]

I would put a lot of the blame on the inefficiency of the RTP 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 12:08 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I reckon if you added a mandatory police attitude to anyone not wearing a helmet who gets fined more than once for not wearing one, should not be aloud to ride a motorbike for a year, add another two years for every time they get caught riding a bike without one.

 

Less split heads on the road saves lives.

Joking right?

Where I used to live, they had a helmet stop every morning that raked in a reasonable amount, as there were always some that considered themselves to be invulnerable. However, some knew about the checkpoint and put a helmet on before the checkpoint and took it off after.

 

However, if I'm honest I support it being a choice. If someone considers they don't need to wear a helmet and die, that's on them. I always wore one and it saved my live after my accident, as was smashed, but my head did not get a scratch, but I'm a believer in "it's my life, my choice", same as with drugs or euthanasia.

The only proviso should be that no one gets insurance or free health care if one does survive without a helmet.

Aren't there some states in the US that don't require helmets?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, cracker1 said:

I would put a lot of the blame on the inefficiency of the RTP 

Honestly, I don't know why some expats want to change LOS into a clone of the place they came from. If they don't like the level of policing here, no one is making them stay.

 

If I wanted to live in a country that has a police force that fines people for everything under the sun, and has destroyed any enjoyment in driving, I'd stay home.

I'm very happy that the cops aren't lurking everywhere looking to take large amounts of my income in LOS. Long may it remain so.

It is one of the things I enjoyed most in LOS when I was driving on the roads a lot. So long as I wasn't in an accident, no one was going to harass me. Most enjoyable.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, jvs said:

When i see some Thai drivers with absolutely no regard for their own life how much do you think they care about anyone else?

None. I've survived more than a few trying to kill me, but life is always a gamble anyway.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Most of the posts on this thread are “flat-earther” comments - based on limited anecdotal interpretations of personal experience - the “I” witness.

 

Countries’ variations in death rates are not down to how stupid a population is there are many other factors.

One problem in Thailand is the potentially lethal combination of modes of transport - a deadly mix of pickups and motorcycles; the over-confident and the vulnerable.

 

Once a crash is in progress it is for the most part, no longer in the hands of the driver, what happens next is down to the vehicle and the environment.

Pickups in particular are bad in crashes - they are more likely to injure or kill other road-users (3^rd Parties) and don’t take very good care of their own occupants either. They have poor energy absorption and a high centre of gravity that makes them more liable to roll over.

Statistically Buses and Minivans are FAR safer, but you wouldn’t believe that if your only source of info was your local media.... bus crashes are “buzzworthy”

 

Motorcycles in Thailand present a totally different demographic to those in such places as Australia, Europe or UK. There are far more in Thailand and their use is ubiquitous. Motorcyclists are in the “highly vulnerable” category and in Thailand; this is 83% of all fatalities of which motorcycles are about 73% of all fatalities the remaining 10% being made up by pedestrians and cyclists. This is one figure that truly stands out as particular to Thailand alone.

However if you are in a private 4-wheel vehicle, your chances of death work out to be about the same as in the USA. (This isn’t saying much -it needs to be tempered with the knowledge that the USA has a death rate nearly 4 times higher than the top EU countries.)

 

Another problem when commenting on road safety in Thailand is the lack of good statistics. In fact the only stats available seem to be for actual deaths, which make an overall picture rather difficult.

The international norm for collating information is to examine every reported crash and repot it in terms of 3 grades - fatalities, serious injuries and minor injuries. This is simply not done on a consistent year round basis. In fact the gathering of statistics doesn’t really seem to be allotted to any one body in particular. The police seem to be the main source but they really don’t seem to be trained to do this - or at least don’t have their heart in it.

Analysis of crashes in Thailand is virtually nil.

 

There is also the problem of using and interpreting the stats that are available - in Thailand that means “death stats”

But in most cases only one set is used - the number of deaths per 100k population.

This ignores

·      Deaths par 100k vehicle

·      Kilometers travelled

·      Car ownership

·      Traffic density

·      Miles of road per country and types of road...

 

None of this is ever referred to. In fact on a worldwide basis Thailand fares much better on the other scales than on the famed Death per 100k.

 

Moreover, it would appear that Thailand has almost the same number of vehicle crashes as the UK - which is one of the “safest” countries in the world, so how come so many more die in Thailand?

 

It seems to me that those with no real understanding of road safety or even statistics are prepared to jump to conclusions about road safety in Thailand that are in reality quite bizarre when one takes a more thorough look at the evidence.

 

So next time you see some bad driving - consider it in terms of road safety (not just driving) - is it really that different from elsewhere? Are you pandering to cognitive bias, being racist or just making a false syllogism?

 

 

 

 

Actually, on main roads Thai roads are very safe for m'cyclists as they have a dedicated m'bike lane, unlike western countries I've driven in.

I drove many hundreds of miles on a m'bike without injury, except when an idiot wasn't looking and drove into me when I was stationary. As in all things, life is a gamble.

I always felt more nervous driving a car than on the m'bike, given the maniacs habit of overtaking in my lane, and the propensity of m'bike riders to enter the road without looking.

The greatest consistent danger riding a m'bike here is the sand on the roads, which are never cleaned of such. I always approached corners with caution.

 

As for driving in the fanatically over regulated country I come from, I was almost killed twice in half an hour by idiots.

[Airbagwill]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually, on main roads Thai roads are very safe for m'cyclists as they have a dedicated m'bike lane, unlike western countries I've driven in.

I drove many hundreds of miles on a m'bike without injury, except when an idiot wasn't looking and drove into me when I was stationary. As in all things, life is a gamble.

I always felt more nervous driving a car than on the m'bike, given the maniacs habit of overtaking in my lane, and the propensity of m'bike riders to enter the road without looking.

The greatest consistent danger riding a m'bike here is the sand on the roads, which are never cleaned of such. I always approached corners with caution.

 

As for driving in the fanatically over regulated country I come from, I was almost killed twice in half an hour by idiots.

THis couldn't be further from the truth and the fact that you are lulled into this false sense of security only underlines the inherent dangers of current road design in Thailand.......long straight roads with no separation of traffic in hazards on the sides and in the centre.

Aat present they are just starting to install armco - how effectively remains to be seen

 

"given the maniacs habit of overtaking in my lane, and the propensity of m'bike riders to enter the road without looking."this is exactly what happens when people perceive the hard shoulder to be a motorcycle lane - their is nothing to stop them swerving into it.

You  are also unaware of the priotiy to the left rule?

but you are talking about driving as if it ist he same as road safety..it isn't.

[NanLaew]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The greatest consistent danger riding a m'bike here is the sand on the roads, which are never cleaned of such. I always approached corners with caution.

That bit is just about right although gritty surfaces are hardly the 'greatest consistent' danger to motor bikers. The greatest consistent danger to motor bikers in LOS are themselves. Most of the fatalities happen when all alone, sober or drunk, driving too fast for prevailing conditions or the unsafe state of the bike and wiping their sad selves out on pavement/tree/ditch/klong, etc..

 

The rest of your post is all a bit rubbish 'actually'.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

That bit is just about right although gritty surfaces are hardly the 'greatest consistent' danger to motor bikers. The greatest consistent danger to motor bikers in LOS are themselves. Most of the fatalities happen when all alone, sober or drunk, driving too fast for prevailing conditions or the unsafe state of the bike and wiping their sad selves out on pavement/tree/ditch/klong, etc..

 

The rest of your post is all a bit rubbish 'actually'.

You can keep the flaming to yourself. I could care less what some anonymous poster says from the safety of his device.

It's no wonder that TVF is regarded with some disdain by posters to other forums as a refuge for bitter and twisted expats with nothing better to do that attack any poster they take a dislike to.

[thaibeachlovers]

27 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

THis couldn't be further from the truth and the fact that you are lulled into this false sense of security only underlines the inherent dangers of current road design in Thailand.......long straight roads with no separation of traffic in hazards on the sides and in the centre.

Aat present they are just starting to install armco - how effectively remains to be seen

 

"given the maniacs habit of overtaking in my lane, and the propensity of m'bike riders to enter the road without looking."this is exactly what happens when people perceive the hard shoulder to be a motorcycle lane - their is nothing to stop them swerving into it.

You  are also unaware of the priotiy to the left rule?

but you are talking about driving as if it ist he same as road safety..it isn't.

."this is exactly what happens when people perceive the hard shoulder to be a motorcycle lane - their is nothing to stop them swerving into it.

????????????????????????????????

Do you actually drive on Thai roads? Nothing "perceived" about it. Only someone with a death wish would actually drive a small scooter or m'bike ( which most people drive ) in the car lanes.

 

You  are also unaware of the priotiy to the left rule?

I have no idea of how that relates to the reality of riding a m'bike on Thai roads.

 

Given your recent entry to TVF I can only assume you haven't been in Thailand long enough to know much about it. I on the other hand have been riding in LOS for many years and been riding m'bikes since 1966. To say I have been lulled into this false sense of security is quite frankly laughable.

 

 

[hobz]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Honestly, I don't know why some expats want to change LOS into a clone of the place they came from. If they don't like the level of policing here, no one is making them stay.

 

If I wanted to live in a country that has a police force that fines people for everything under the sun, and has destroyed any enjoyment in driving, I'd stay home.

I'm very happy that the cops aren't lurking everywhere looking to take large amounts of my income in LOS. Long may it remain so.

It is one of the things I enjoyed most in LOS when I was driving on the roads a lot. So long as I wasn't in an accident, no one was going to harass me. Most enjoyable.

 

Yes, good point! There is definitely an upside to lack of law enforcement. But look at the numbers, 1 million injured, 100000 permanently disabled. Something has to be done.

Im glad u enjoy driving here and i know many people like you. Its a difference  in mentality and each to their own... Personally i fear for my life every time i drive a scooter in thailand. So i bought a car. Now i fear that i will kill some kamikaze scooter driver... But hey.. At least i dont fear for my own life now.

Edited October 29, 2017 by hobz

[oldlakey]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

 

As fun as it is to claim we live in the 2nd most dangerous country for road deaths (especially when attempting to inspire awe in the folks back home), the 2nd column on this link shows that's largely due to the high number of motor vehicles in Thailand- the majority being 2 wheelers.  The per-capita number is high, but the per vehicle number is actually pretty mundane by developing world standards.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

And I'd contend, the best number to use is the rate per billion km driven, but Thailand doesn't report that.  That's the acid test- how dangerous is it for me to get in a vehicle and go a km.

 

It was terminal for 24,000 souls just recently

[Airbagwill]

49 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

."this is exactly what happens when people perceive the hard shoulder to be a motorcycle lane - their is nothing to stop them swerving into it.

????????????????????????????????

Do you actually drive on Thai roads? Nothing "perceived" about it. Only someone with a death wish would actually drive a small scooter or m'bike ( which most people drive ) in the car lanes.

 

You  are also unaware of the priotiy to the left rule?

I have no idea of how that relates to the reality of riding a m'bike on Thai roads.

 

Given your recent entry to TVF I can only assume you haven't been in Thailand long enough to know much about it. I on the other hand have been riding in LOS for many years and been riding m'bikes since 1966. To say I have been lulled into this false sense of security is quite frankly laughable.

 

 

"

ou  are also unaware of the priotiy to the left rule?

I have no idea of how that relates to the reality of riding a m'bike on Thai roads." - QED?

[oldlakey]

3 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Most of the posts on this thread are “flat-earther” comments - based on limited anecdotal interpretations of personal experience - the “I” witness.

 

Countries’ variations in death rates are not down to how stupid a population is there are many other factors.

One problem in Thailand is the potentially lethal combination of modes of transport - a deadly mix of pickups and motorcycles; the over-confident and the vulnerable.

 

Once a crash is in progress it is for the most part, no longer in the hands of the driver, what happens next is down to the vehicle and the environment.

Pickups in particular are bad in crashes - they are more likely to injure or kill other road-users (3^rd Parties) and don’t take very good care of their own occupants either. They have poor energy absorption and a high centre of gravity that makes them more liable to roll over.

Statistically Buses and Minivans are FAR safer, but you wouldn’t believe that if your only source of info was your local media.... bus crashes are “buzzworthy”

 

Motorcycles in Thailand present a totally different demographic to those in such places as Australia, Europe or UK. There are far more in Thailand and their use is ubiquitous. Motorcyclists are in the “highly vulnerable” category and in Thailand; this is 83% of all fatalities of which motorcycles are about 73% of all fatalities the remaining 10% being made up by pedestrians and cyclists. This is one figure that truly stands out as particular to Thailand alone.

However if you are in a private 4-wheel vehicle, your chances of death work out to be about the same as in the USA. (This isn’t saying much -it needs to be tempered with the knowledge that the USA has a death rate nearly 4 times higher than the top EU countries.)

 

Another problem when commenting on road safety in Thailand is the lack of good statistics. In fact the only stats available seem to be for actual deaths, which make an overall picture rather difficult.

The international norm for collating information is to examine every reported crash and repot it in terms of 3 grades - fatalities, serious injuries and minor injuries. This is simply not done on a consistent year round basis. In fact the gathering of statistics doesn’t really seem to be allotted to any one body in particular. The police seem to be the main source but they really don’t seem to be trained to do this - or at least don’t have their heart in it.

Analysis of crashes in Thailand is virtually nil.

 

There is also the problem of using and interpreting the stats that are available - in Thailand that means “death stats”

But in most cases only one set is used - the number of deaths per 100k population.

This ignores

·      Deaths par 100k vehicle

·      Kilometers travelled

·      Car ownership

·      Traffic density

·      Miles of road per country and types of road...

 

None of this is ever referred to. In fact on a worldwide basis Thailand fares much better on the other scales than on the famed Death per 100k.

 

Moreover, it would appear that Thailand has almost the same number of vehicle crashes as the UK - which is one of the “safest” countries in the world, so how come so many more die in Thailand?

 

It seems to me that those with no real understanding of road safety or even statistics are prepared to jump to conclusions about road safety in Thailand that are in reality quite bizarre when one takes a more thorough look at the evidence.

 

So next time you see some bad driving - consider it in terms of road safety (not just driving) - is it really that different from elsewhere? Are you pandering to cognitive bias, being racist or just making a false syllogism?

 

 

 

 

Thailand fares much better on the other scales than on the famed death per 100k

Comforting, very comforting

So the 24,000 were not a total waste then

[Jonah Tenner]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

None. I've survived more than a few trying to kill me, but life is always a gamble anyway.

Live life dangerously, no one has survived yet. 

[4MyEgo]

13 hours ago, Artisi said:

Please explain just how you would enforce the not allowed to ride for a year, the BIB can't enforce anything for example, drunk driving /riding, no licence, or ignoring the no licence law after being caught, no vehicle tax, drive at any speed you like, drive on whatever side of the road you choose - in fact do whatever you want when you want where ever you like. 

1) It would have to start from where the new recruits enter the force for learning

 

2) All current police wouldn't be getting promotions or pay rises unless a target was reached from traffic fines, ensuring that motorists start to comply

 

3) Any cops falling short of the mark would be put behind a desk for admin work and demoted in pay 

 

4) Start dismissing corrupt cops

 

I know I am dreaming, but you did ask, it really is simple, but they would have to turn their system upside down, perhaps send some of their top brass to Sydney to show them how its down and that would open their slant eyes, i.e. you are literally in fear to start your car, i.e. sheeeet have I got my seat belt on, blinkers working, keep to speed limit because they cops are extended by way of fixed speed camera's, mobile speed camera's unmarked parked vehicles with speed camera's, police vehicles with speed detectors, red light camera's and the good old hand held radar speed detectors, random breath testing vehicles, etc, etc, etc, and the fines are heavy, with loss of points system, 3 years to replace lost points, automatic loss of licence if you travel over 45km, and then there is jail if you drive while disqualified and hefty fine.