Why Thailand Takes Pride in the Vietnam War

[webfact]

OPINION

Why Thailand Takes Pride in the Vietnam War

RICHARD A. RUTH

 

Fifty years ago last month, the first Thai volunteer soldiers, a regiment-size unit called the Queen’s Cobras, were sent off to Bien Hoa in South Vietnam to fight alongside the Americans as part of the so-called Free World Forces.

 

Eventually some 40,000 Thai soldiers and sailors would serve. While the Vietnam War is remembered rightly as a tragedy in both the United States and Vietnam, the same cannot be said for Thailand. There the war is described by participants, military histories and official monuments in largely upbeat terms.

 

In the early 2000s, I interviewed more than 60 Thai Vietnam War veterans from that original group and its successor, a division-size unit known as the Black Panthers. They repeatedly stressed the experiential and material gains the war had given them. They talked about how their service had successfully blocked the spread of communism to Thailand. They marveled at how much Thailand had changed during the war years. And while they acknowledged the war’s terrible toll on people throughout Southeast Asia, including some of their fellow soldiers, they mostly talked about how the war had helped them and their nation. What really struck me, though, was the pride they took in their self-image as Buddhist soldiers.

 

Full story: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/opinion/thailand-vietnam-war.html

 

-- The New York Times 2017-11-08

 

[rkidlad]

15 minutes ago, webfact said:

Buddhist soldiers.

Ah, now there’s an oxymoron. 

[jaltsc]

"Onward Buddhist soldiers. Marching off to war"

 

Doesn't quite have the same ring. 

[Oziex1]

An interesting article all soldiers should take pride and be respected regardless of the politics.  

 

Sad their current government is looking  to China after being looked after by the yanks back then. 

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, jaltsc said:

"Onward Buddhist soldiers. Marching off to war"

 

Doesn't quite have the same ring. 

And yet the irony is the same...

[ksamuiguy]

been there, done that!

 

[tonray]

1 hour ago, Oziex1 said:

An interesting article all soldiers should take pride and be respected regardless of the politics.  

 

Sad their current government is looking  to China after being looked after by the yanks back then. 

Follow the money....same the world over. 

[zydeco]

There is an okay book on this subject by the same author of the article that gives quite a few insights, although it also bogs down in places. https://silkwormbooks.com/products/in-buddhas-company

Edited November 8, 2017 by zydeco

[Jack Mountain]

Poor losers fighting communism. mmmwwwaaaHHHH ROFLOL

[Psimbo]

34 minutes ago, Jack Mountain said:

Poor losers fighting communism. mmmwwwaaaHHHH ROFLOL

Very erudite,

[alant]

Very interesting, thank you.

[IAMHERE]

2 hours ago, Oziex1 said:

An interesting article all soldiers should take pride and be respected regardless of the politics.  

 

I agree, but it seems popular in the US to denigrate the Confederate Soldier.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

Follow the money....same the world over. 

 

Follow the money... true of course and if the country leaders didn't follow the current good economy factors there would be criticism.

 

Friends... well let's be realistic, we all have life experiences of good friendships which dissipate over time, some severely sour over time. 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, ksamuiguy said:

been there, done that!

 

Me too 1969 - 1972.

[DM07]

3 hours ago, Oziex1 said:

An interesting article all soldiers should take pride and be respected regardless of the politics.  

 

Sad their current government is looking  to China after being looked after by the yanks back then. 

Oh really?!

Some of the Neo-Nazis in Germany will be happy to hear that!

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

17 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

I agree, but it seems popular in the US to denigrate the Confederate Soldier.

Probably because they were fighting AGAINST the United States of America 

 

Not a whole lot of monuments to Native American Indians or British or Hessian Soldiers either, ever wonder why ?

 

  

[Jools]

Vietnam was an easy sell to Thai people. Most of them knew what happens to monarchies under Communist governments.

[burgdawg]

Great article! Muchas gracias for posting. Many kon Thai ask me "...why are US Immigration rules so strict to obtain a Tai Visa to USA?" A bit of historical review is necessary to piece together bits of history. The US Army base at Chachoengsao was home to 40k US military men. At the war's end, all 7 US Air Bases (U-Tapao, Takli(Nakhon Sawan), Don Muang, Nakhon Ratchasima, Udon Ratchathani, Udon Thani and Nakhon Phanom all reverted to the ownership of the Kingdom of Thailand, including the US Army Base at Chachoengsao.

38,000 Thai dependents(wives and children) of the US Servicemen accompanied their American soldier husbands back to USA in the mid-1970s. Things lasted about one year. The Thai women adjusted the best they could to the:

1) Cold temps, 2) Lousy falang food, 3) Isolation 4) Pre-internet rural America, a decidely lonely place to be. What really put the Thai women over the top was that their American sammis were looked down upon once back in USA. In Thai Culture, the TorTahaan-- soldier, is revered. Not so during the 1960s-1970s in USA. Things are better now, but the 60s-70s were a low-point for anyone who served in the military. Servicemen who risked their lives were spat upon by an angry population lied to by successive American leadership. The American soldiers that served in Vietnam took the hit from ALL DIRECTIONS! The Thai women balked. They missed their Kingdom มากๆๆ

 

The Thai women petitioned the US Military, Department of Defense, State Department. Interviews of all 38,000 Thai dependents were carried out in earnest. There would be no ไปๆมาๆๆ--bpai bpai, mah-mah(back and forth). This was a one way return trek. Uncle Sam picked up the tab and moved 37,000 Thai females, their children and American husbands back to Thailand. 1,000 Kon Thai stayed in America, Earl Woods, his son Tiger and his Thai wife from Udon Thani all stayed in USA.

 

The US State Department then closed the Immigration door. Say what you will, the US Embassy in Bangkok know that Thai women have unrealistic expectations concerning American life. The US Embassy in Bangkok has done yeoman work all these decades since the Vietnam War to address broad issues for kon Thai and vacationing falangs alike. Theirs is NOT an easy task. If you think it is....call up the US Embassy and volunteer to lighten their load.

Daily life is NOT sanook-sanaan in USA. Everything is very expensive. One must hold down several jobs to make ends meet. Winter lasts 7-8 months in the "flyover states." Kon Thai don winter jackets when the mercury plummets to 86F during December. Kon Thai have little experience coping with -20C temps. You can apply for a US Visa all you want. If you are a doctor, dentist or similar professional, your visa is granted in record time--especially if you are accepted in a post graduate program, or special convocation.

 

Weekend dreamers and flings from Pattaya need  not apply. To take a Thai female OUT of her beloved Kingdom is a selfish act. It is akin to removing an vibrant orchid out of a greenhouse and into the harsh dog-eat-dog daily life of US life.

Best for any male to stay in the Kingdom and learn the language, the customs and traditions of muang Tai. A much better approach and higher success rate for all parties involved. Less heartache. You do NOT want to live with an unhappy Thai female, do you?

 

[joeyg]

70 to 72 for me sadly there was no honor in my service.

[CGW]

47 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Oh really?!

Some of the Neo-Nazis in Germany will be happy to hear that!

 

 

The North Korean army conscripts will also be thrilled! certainly helps if free thinking is not encouraged, reminds me of somewhere?

[joeyg]

I am an aspiring Buddhist.  I find the denigrating sarcasm on Buddhist soldiers, personally, offensive.  Buddhists are not Non-violent.  When the cause is "noble" protecting woman, children and others who can not defend themselves, violence is the last resort.

 

After my first tour of Vietnam, I requested and fought for a Conscientious Objector Discharge.  Fortunately I got it with an Honorable Discharge and full benefits.

 

There was no honor to be found in Vietnam.

 

[burgdawg]

Required Viewing, if you can handle it: The Ken Burns Series on the "The Vietnam War." This is the explicit version:  http://www.pbs.org/show/vietnam-war-not-edited/episodes/

 

There are three versions, to my knowledge: the Broadcast version, this explicit version (no commercials, raw language)--watch on your computer and a version in Vietnamese. Helluva series pulled off by Ken Burns and his Crew.

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, burgdawg said:

Required Viewing, if you can handle it: The Ken Burns Series on the "The Vietnam War." This is the explicit version:  http://www.pbs.org/show/vietnam-war-not-edited/episodes/

 

There are three versions, to my knowledge: the Broadcast version, this explicit version (no commercials, raw language)--watch on your computer and a version in Vietnamese. Helluva series pulled off by Ken Burns and his Crew.

I saw the link and remember seeing this show.  Honestly right now I feel like I want to puke.

[joeyg]

True Buddhist warriors.  The King lead the charge accompanied by the Queen and his young daughter to lead the battle of Ayuthaya.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese–Siamese_War_(1547–49)

 

Battle of Ayutthaya[edit]

At the outskirts[edit]

 

Painting by Prince Narisara Nuvadtivongs, depicting Queen Suriyothai (center) on her elephant putting herself between King Maha Chakkraphat (right) and the Viceroy of Prome (left).

Maha Chakkraphat decided to leave the capital with his forces, to engage Tabinshwehti and test the Burmese strength. On this occasion, he mounted his chief war elephant. Accompanying him were his Chief Queen, Sri Suriyothai, and one of their young daughters, Princess Boromdhilok, the two riding together on a smaller war elephant. Both royal ladies were dressed in male military attire (helmet and armour), with the queen wearing the uniform of an Uparaja. Also accompanying their father on elephant mounts were two sons, the Uparaja and heir apparent, Prince Ramesuan, and his brother Prince Mahin.^[29][30]

[Oziex1]

1 hour ago, DM07 said:

Oh really?!

Some of the Neo-Nazis in Germany will be happy to hear that!

 

 

It's common that the fighting man is taught racist hate for the enemy and to have an unshakable beliefe in his own superiority.

They are programmed to serve the often questionable agenda of their political masters. Are we to point an accusing finger at the grunts on the ground.

[joeyg]

2 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

It's common that the fighting man is taught racist hate for the enemy and to have an unshakable beliefe in his own superiority.

They are programmed to serve the often questionable agenda of their political masters. Are we to point an accusing finger at the grunts on the ground.

Exactly...

[ujayujay]

...they tought would go with winner

[bill1369]

14 hours ago, zydeco said:

There is an okay book on this subject by the same author of the article that gives quite a few insights, although it also bogs down in places. https://silkwormbooks.com/products/in-buddhas-company

You might want to look at the Times' article's author's name. He's the guy who wrote "In Buddhas Company".

[yooper]

13 hours ago, scorecard said:

Me too 1969 - 1972.

MACV DL-42,  then  sent to Thailand  

[yooper]

13 hours ago, burgdawg said:

To take a Thai female OUT of her beloved Kingdom is a selfish act. It is akin to removing an vibrant orchid out of a greenhouse and into the harsh dog-eat-dog daily life of US life.

 

I will never forget a conversation I had with a warehouse foreman after I took my wife on a tour of the Deep Water Port where I worked near Sattahip, in '74  (Camp Same-San).  He told me the warehouse workers were upset that a falang was taking the beautiful Thai woman out of their country.  His tone made me cautious about roaming the warehouse area  alone after that,  so I kept to my office in admin  for  the  short time I had left there.  We've been together for 43 years now and going strong.   It's not always a selfish act, she was well aware of the sad stories of abandoned women and unhappy endings for girls who left Thailand but we've always trusted each other and so far it has worked out... and now we are retired and going 'home'.