TM30 Query

[properperson]

 

I moved rooms yesterday and today went to Jomtien immigration with a completed TM28, copy lease and copies of passport.....

 

The immigration Officer asked where was form TM30 ?

 

i was then waved away to the guy at the entrance, who handed over a TM30 form....

 

Looking through it - its for landlords to report people staying in their property (s).....

 

Can't see that its anything to do with me - and surely the onus is on him to take it to immigration ?

 

TIA ..

 

.

 

 

[sanuk711]

5 minutes ago, properperson said:

Can't see that its anything to do with me - and surely the onus is on him to take it to immigration ?

I fell foul of this  PP, in Nong Kai...about 10 years ago...they admitted that it was the house owners fault, but fined me anyway & told me to get it back off of him. Things may have got better since than--depending on what part of the country you in.

[JackThompson]

They (Jomtien, and some other offices) essentially combined the TM-28 and TM-30 reporting-rules into one "thing" - that being the requirement that a TM-30 form is submitted.  It is ultimately "your problem," to ensure it is done.  What is needed to satisfy the office is a moving target.

 

Chances are, your "landlord" may either not know what it is, or be unwilling to help - though it cannot hurt to ask.  A copy of your lease is the primary thing needed.  If in a condo, the Juristic Person may also issue you a letter stating that you live there.  The little shop on your left, when facing the front-door of immigration, will help you fill out the form for a small fee. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by JackThompson

[Tanoshi]

It's actually the responsibility of the house-master, the owner, or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where an alien has stayed.

 

You are the possessor of the residence if your renting.

 

Handbook TM30.pdf

Source: https://chachoengsao.immigration.go.th/citizen_manual/guid_en13.pdf

Edited November 11, 2017 by Maestro
Added link to the source

[BuddyDean]

21 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's actually the responsibility of the house-master, the owner, or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where an alien has stayed.

 

You are the possessor of the residence if your renting.

 

Handbook TM30.pdf

That's good to know, but one person will need an extension; the other will not.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, properperson said:

Can't see that its anything to do with me - and surely the onus is on him to take it to immigration ?

If they consider you to be the "possessor" of the property the onus is jointly on you and the owner of the property. Either of you could be fined if neither of you make the report. Ultimately it's in your interest to make sure it's done. In most cases immigration are looking for the owner to make the report. If you're in an apartment/condo the building management should be aware of the TM.30 requirement.

[Tanoshi]

59 minutes ago, BuddyDean said:

That's good to know, but one person will need an extension; the other will not.

I've always filed my own TM30's.

Never relied on any landlords or my wife to file something I could do.

[BuddyDean]

12 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

I've always filed my own TM30's.

Never relied on any landlords or my wife to file something I could do.

I do my own, too.  It can be a quagmire for someone with an out of country owner, or even in BKK.  Also, reports of not allowing foreigner to file as landlord.

[properperson]

15 hours ago, JackThompson said:

They (Jomtien, and some other offices) essentially combined the TM-28 and TM-30 reporting-rules into one "thing" - that being the requirement that a TM-30 form is submitted.  It is ultimately "your problem," to ensure it is done.  What is needed to satisfy the office is a moving target.

 

Chances are, your "landlord" may either not know what it is, or be unwilling to help - though it cannot hurt to ask.  A copy of your lease is the primary thing needed.  If in a condo, the Juristic Person may also issue you a letter stating that you live there.  The little shop on your left, when facing the front-door of immigration, will help you fill out the form for a small fee. 

They had a  copy of the lease and gave me the change of address slip - Telling me to "bring completed TM30 form next time i came to immigration" .

 

[phuketrichard]

i had my landlord fill out the top of the tm 30and i filled out the bottom

seems to work fine here in Phuket

[brewsterbudgen]

I do my own, too.  It can be a quagmire for someone with an out of country owner, or even in BKK.  Also, reports of not allowing foreigner to file as landlord.

Fortunately there is no requirement for a TM30 from individual extensions/90 days etc.

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[scubascuba3]

One for ubonjoe, if I do a border run, does my guesthouse need to advise immigration? I'm staying at the same guesthouse so no change there

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

One for ubonjoe, if I do a border run, does my guesthouse need to advise immigration? I'm staying at the same guesthouse so no change there

It depends upon the office that they are reporting to.

[scubascuba3]

It depends upon the office that they are reporting to.

Jomtien?

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

36 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It depends upon the office that they are reporting to.

Jomtien?

They should do one or you might have a problem if you do an extension of your entry.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Fortunately there is no requirement for a TM30 from individual extensions/90 days etc.

As with virtually everything else to do with TM30 notifications, that depends on the immigration office where you are applying for a short term extension, or doing a 90-day report.

[brewsterbudgen]

As with virtually everything else to do with TM30 notifications, that depends on the immigration office where you are applying for a short term extension, or doing a 90-day report.

Yes. My comment relates to the post I quoted about Bangkok.

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[BuddyDean]

6 minutes ago, BritTim said:

As with virtually everything else to do with TM30 notifications, that depends on the immigration office where you are applying for a short term extension, or doing a 90-day report.

And the direction the wind is blowing.  Finally, there is something more convoluted than Yellow Book.

[PhuketSarah]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Fortunately there is no requirement for a TM30 from individual extensions/90 days etc.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I think this is incorrect the 90 day is not related  to the TM 30 report of address. 

[brewsterbudgen]

I think this is incorrect the 90 day is not related  to the TM 30 report of address. 

Oh. So in regions that require a TM30, they don't check whether you have done one when you file a 90 day report? I didn't know that. Is it only checked when you do an Extension then?

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[BritTim]

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

4 hours ago, PhuketSarah said:

I think this is incorrect the 90 day is not related  to the TM 30 report of address. 

Oh. So in regions that require a TM30, they don't check whether you have done one when you file a 90 day report? I didn't know that. Is it only checked when you do an Extension then?

Nothing is definite. At some immigration offices, they will verify a TM30 notification has been done whenever you have any contact with them.

[scubascuba3]

Ok here's a scenario. If someone is doing border runs and not going to immigration for extensions at what point do they check and maybe enforce a charge? When they leave Thailand? And if there is a charge is it from the last border run?

[Maestro]

Immigration officers are free to check their database at any time to see if a foreigner's arrival at a hotel, guesthouse or private residence has been duly notified.

 

The law requires notification within 24 hours of the foreigner's arrival at the hotel, guesthouse or private residence. Therefore, if an immigration office choses to impose a fine for non-submission or delayed submission of this notification, the fine can be issued at the earliest 24 hours after the foreigner's arrival at the hotel, guesthouse or private residence.

[BritTim]

14 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Ok here's a scenario. If someone is doing border runs and not going to immigration for extensions at what point do they check and maybe enforce a charge? When they leave Thailand? And if there is a charge is it from the last border run?

As a practical matter, if you have no contact with your local immigration office, checking that TM30 notifications have been done is highly unlikely. An immigration official could choose to check, but none would feel it is their specific responsibility to do so. Officials are not in the habit of making work for themselves. The only time when I think there is any possibility they might do so is if you upset some immigration official somewhere (perhaps at the airport) and they did a full check up out of spite.

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

As a practical matter, if you have no contact with your local immigration office, checking that TM30 notifications have been done is highly unlikely.

 

This is true. The only time I read, in a news article, about an impromptu check was when immigration looked for a foreign criminal, who also happened to be on overstay and got fined for that. The manager of the guesthouse where the foreigner was found was fined for his failure to report the foreigner's arrival.

[properperson]

18 hours ago, Maestro said:

Immigration officers are free to check their database at any time to see if a foreigner's arrival at a hotel, guesthouse or private residence has been duly notified.

 

The law requires notification within 24 hours of the foreigner's arrival at the hotel, guesthouse or private residence. Therefore, if an immigration office choses to impose a fine for non-submission or delayed submission of this notification, the fine can be issued at the earliest 24 hours after the foreigner's arrival at the hotel, guesthouse or private residence.

 

But surely the onus is on the hotel / condo owner to fill out the TM30 and send it to the immigration office (or receive a penalty for not doing it)...

 

How can it be the responsibility of the tenant who has already completed a TM28 and got the receipt in their passport.....

 

Was chatting to a "bloke down the pub" and he reccons "forget it - not your problem" .....

 

I'm confused !

.

[BritTim]

43 minutes ago, properperson said:

 

But surely the onus is on the hotel / condo owner to fill out the TM30 and send it to the immigration office (or receive a penalty for not doing it)...

 

How can it be the responsibility of the tenant who has already completed a TM28 and got the receipt in their passport.....

 

Was chatting to a "bloke down the pub" and he reccons "forget it - not your problem" .....

 

I'm confused !

 

Sigh! You are not the only person confused. Even someone who has been successfully navigating the TM30 maze for years at one immigration office cannot state with confidence what will happen at another office.

 

Here are a couple of factors...

 

First, if you have a long term lease on a house or condo, you are the 'possessor' of the property. While the owner of the property could submit the TM30 notification, most immigration offices (if they enforce TM30 notifications, which some do not) will state that you are also responsible if the owner does not do it. You should do your own notification of alien staying at the property.

 

Second, that aside, it is really inconvenient for immigration officials to chase your landlord for TM30 notifications and fines. They will typically find it even harder to find your landlord than you do. On the other hand, you are trapped. If you want service from the immigration officials, you need to do whatever they want. Some offices take advantage of this to pass the onus of getting TM30 notifications filed and collecting fines onto you. Yes, this is unfair. There is nothing you can do about it if you need to deal with such immigration offices. 

[Maestro]

11 minutes ago, BritTim said:

...you have a long term lease on a house or condo, you are the 'possessor' of the property...

 

The tenant is the possessor and as such he is the house-master of the residence as defined in section 4 of the Immigration Act. This definition, applicable for the implementation of the Immigration Act, is very clear. This means that the tenant is two of the three persons whom immigration can hold responsible, under section 38, for submitting the TM.30 and fine for non-compliance.

[properperson]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

Sigh! You are not the only person confused. Even someone who has been successfully navigating the TM30 maze for years at one immigration office cannot state with confidence what will happen at another office.

 

Here are a couple of factors...

 

First, if you have a long term lease on a house or condo, you are the 'possessor' of the property. While the owner of the property could submit the TM30 notification, most immigration offices (if they enforce TM30 notifications, which some do not) will state that you are also responsible if the owner does not do it. You should do your own notification of alien staying at the property.

 

Second, that aside, it is really inconvenient for immigration officials to chase your landlord for TM30 notifications and fines. They will typically find it even harder to find your landlord than you do. On the other hand, you are trapped. If you want service from the immigration officials, you need to do whatever they want. Some offices take advantage of this to pass the onus of getting TM30 notifications filed and collecting fines onto you. Yes, this is unfair. There is nothing you can do about it if you need to deal with such immigration offices. 

.

so if one has to do a TM30 - whats the point of submitting a TM28 - as both give details of where i am residing ??

.

[BritTim]

37 minutes ago, properperson said:

.so if one has to do a TM30 - whats the point of submitting a TM28 - as both give details of where i am residing ??

In total, these are the various documents (immigration only) on which you must or might have to note your address in Thailand:

• TM6 (arrival form by alien)
• TM30 (notification of alien staying in property by house master who might be you)
• TM28 (notice of change of address by alien)
• TM47 (90-day report by alien)
• TM7 (application for extension of stay, by alien)
• TM8 (application for re-entry permit, by alien)
• TM87 (application for visa when doing a conversion from tourist entry to non immigrant entry, by alien)
• Foreigner Information Form (by alien)
• Application form for residency certificate (by alien)

These are off the top of my head, and I may have forgotten some. Of course, none of the above are sufficient if dealing with any government department other than immigration.

 

You ask 'what is the point'? Beats me. Let us just say Thailand's strong suit is not paperwork reduction. Just be thankful the Thai authorities do not require us to be microchipped. If they did, we would doubtless need to have about nine microchips (assuming it is only for immigration purposes).