Non O Retirement

[Shifty]

I currently hold a Non O "Retirement" visa reporting every 90 days. For family personal reasons I have to return to my home country for an undefined period. If I apply for a multiple re-entry permit my maximum return date to Thailand will be just prior to my next 90 day report date. If need be, can I then leave Thailand and return again prior to the next 90 day report. Is there a limit with a multiple re-entry permit on how many day I can be out of Thailand in one Non O retirement visa year?

[Jingthing]

Do you have a currently valid O-A visa or do you have a current annual extension based on retirement?

The 90 day "report" required for both of those has nothing to do with the validity of your current permission to stay It is only about address reporting. 

For decent advice about your reentry situation you need to give more details about what's actually in your passport. 

90 day address report dates RESET when you leave and reenter the country. In other words, a new 90 day period starts again when you reenter and if you leave before your next required address report, no problem at all as they are only required when you stay in the country for the full 90 days. So ADDRESS REPORTING a trivial issue. Having a valid REENTRY however is very important. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Jingthing

[overherebc]

If you leave and come back using your re-entry permit I am sure it re-sets the 90 day clock as stamping in at the airport is the same as reporting to the Imm' office.

Same time post as JT.

Edited November 11, 2017 by overherebc

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, overherebc said:

If you leave and come back using your re-entry permit I am sure it re-sets the 90 day clock as stamping in at the airport is the same as reporting to the Imm' office.

Same time post as JT.

Yeah but if he has a currently valid O-A visa he wouldn't even need a reentry permit if he reenters before it becomes invalid, because you get a NEW one year's permission to stay on each entry. Again, another great example where just saying "retirement visa" doesn't convey very important information about what's actually in a passport. 

[phuketrichard]

if u hold a retirement extension ( do 90 day reports) and obtain a re entry permit, you can return up to the day before ur exteniosn expires an apply for a new one. I have a friend that spends 6 months in Thailand and 6 months in Canada.

Always returns day before his extension is due to expire, no problem

[overherebc]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah but if he has a currently valid O-A visa he wouldn't even need a reentry permit if he reenters before it becomes invalid, because you get a NEW one year's permission to stay on each entry. Again, another great example where just saying "retirement visa" doesn't convey very important information about what's actually in a passport. 

I just based my answer on the bit where he said 90 day reports, then again some call border hops 90 day reports.

???

Teminology is important. I have a 60 day extension of stay while still holding a valid multi O 1 year visa because I did a 60 day extension on a 90 entry on the last 90 day entry. So as a few of us post the devil is in the details.

Edited November 11, 2017 by overherebc
adding photo

[elviajero]

32 minutes ago, Shifty said:

I currently hold a Non O "Retirement" visa reporting every 90 days. For family personal reasons I have to return to my home country for an undefined period. If I apply for a multiple re-entry permit my maximum return date to Thailand will be just prior to my next 90 day report date. If need be, can I then leave Thailand and return again prior to the next 90 day report. Is there a limit with a multiple re-entry permit on how many day I can be out of Thailand in one Non O retirement visa year?

• A re-entry permit will expire on the date your current extension of stay ("Non 'O' Retirement visa") expires, not on your 90 day reporting date (unless they are the same).
• 90 day reporting has no connection with your permission to stay or re-entry permits.
• Your need to make a 90 day report ends on the day you leave. So when you leave you can forget about your current 90 day report. The 90 day count restarts at day 1 on the day you return.
• You don't need a Multiple Entry Re-entry permit (3,800 baht) unless you're planning more than one re-entry before your extension expires. You only need a Single Entry Re-entry Permit (1,000 baht).
• There's no limit on how long you stay out of the country. But if you want to use the re-entry permit and keep your extension of stay alive you need to re-enter on, or ideally before, the expiry date of the permit. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by elviajero

[elviajero]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Do you have a currently valid O-A visa or do you have a current annual extension based on retirement?

 

33 minutes ago, Shifty said:

I currently hold a Non O "Retirement" visa reporting every 90 days.

 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, elviajero said:

 

 

You think it's clear that he's current staying on annual extensions rather than a currently valid O-A visa. I don't. It's obvious he isn't currently staying on a current initial 90 day O visa as he was already doing 90 day address reports. "Retirement" is stamped on retirement extensions, so best guess is that he is currently staying an an annual extension based on retirement. But based on his post, it wasn't clear to me that he wasn't still on an O-A especially as most experienced expats would already know the reset rules for ADDRESS reports. 

 

To add there really is no such thing as a retirement visa but these very different things are often called that --

 

O-A visa

90 day O visa obtained abroad

90 day obtained as a conversion in Thailand

annual retirement extensions

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Jingthing

[Phuket Man]

I think we need to know what he actually has in his passport as he is not very clear.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Phuket Man said:

I think we need to know what he actually has in his passport as he is not very clear.

Yes.

I can see that he is probably currently staying on an annual retirement extension but as he didn't say that explicitly, we can't know for sure. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Jingthing

[elviajero]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You think it's clear that he's current staying on annual extensions rather than a currently valid O-A visa.

I think it's clear he's not staying here on a non 'O-A' entry because he clearly states that he has a non 'O'. If he has a non 'O' visa, and is reporting every 90 days, then he must have an extension of stay (commonly referred to as a "retirement visa").

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by elviajero

[Shifty]

Firstly, thank you for all the replies that I received. I was not aware O-A visa and its 90 day report and I can now see how my initial post required further info. I am on an annual extension stay, permitted till 25 Oct 2018 (reporting every 90 days for address notification). Before posting, I read a lot of threads on this topic and what stands out is the confusion relating to the term retirement visa. There are many responses that say there is no such thing as a retirement visa, yet my passport visa stamp clearly states the title RETIREMENT. The title Annual Retirement Extension is nowhere to be seen. Probably a trivial thing for the old stayers but a catch for newcomers like myself.

[Jingthing]

53 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I think it's clear he's not staying here on a non 'O-A' entry because he clearly states that he has a non 'O'. If he has a non 'O' visa, and is reporting every 90 days, then he must have an extension of stay (commonly referred to as a "retirement visa").

 

We now know he is currently staying on an annual retirement extensions. I find your point odd about OA visas. People currently staying on OA visas are also required to do 90 day address reports. I already agreed he was probably on an extension but unlike you I didn't think that was definite based on the terminology that he initially used. 

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, Shifty said:

There are many responses that say there is no such thing as a retirement visa, yet my passport visa stamp clearly states the title RETIREMENT. The title Annual Retirement Extension is nowhere to be seen.

The stamp in your passport is a permit, as opposed to a visa used for entry to the country, and doesn't state visa anywhere. It states that you have been issued an extension of stay until the 25th October based on "Retirement" (red stamp). So you have a permit (permission) to extend your stay based on retirement. Best described as a 'Retirement Extension'. Calling it a 'retirement visa' is ok until it comes to getting advice about immigration procedure.

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Shifty said:

Firstly, thank you for all the replies that I received. I was not aware O-A visa and its 90 day report and I can now see how my initial post required further info. I am on an annual extension stay, permitted till 25 Oct 2018 (reporting every 90 days for address notification). Before posting, I read a lot of threads on this topic and what stands out is the confusion relating to the term retirement visa. There are many responses that say there is no such thing as a retirement visa, yet my passport visa stamp clearly states the title RETIREMENT. The title Annual Retirement Extension is nowhere to be seen. Probably a trivial thing for the old stayers but a catch for newcomers like myself.

The stamp retirement is on your annual extension. An extension is not a visa. I do not know if you initially stated on an O visa or an OA visa but at this point its irrelevant to your questions because it's now fully clear your current stay is based on your current annual retirement extension. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Jingthing

[elviajero]

13 minutes ago, Shifty said:

I am on an annual extension stay, permitted till 25 Oct 2018

When you buy a re-entry permit it will be valid until October 25th 2018. So you can re-enter anytime on or before that date. It is best to re-enter at least a few days before it expires to give yourself time to go to immigration and apply to renew the extension.

[Shifty]

Your valued responses cleared up a lot of terminoligy being "loosely" used. Having a permit stamp as opposed to a visa for one. Thanks again to all

[tgeezer]

“Loosely” !
The picture of the passport entry page shows that he entered Thailand in April on NON-RE visa, and was given permission to stay until 25/10/17. (188 days)

The next stamp is an “extension of stay” applied for on 9/10/17 when he was given permission to remain until 25/10/18 (the anniversary of his original permission to stay.)
What sort of visa provides for 188 days stay on entry?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[elviajero]

34 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

“Loosely” !
The picture of the passport entry page shows that he entered Thailand in April on NON-RE visa, and was given permission to stay until 25/10/17. (188 days)

The next stamp is an “extension of stay” applied for on 9/10/17 when he was given permission to remain until 25/10/18 (the anniversary of his original permission to stay.)
What sort of visa provides for 188 days stay on entry?

He didn't enter using a visa. "NON-RE" means he entered using a Re-entry Permit (RE) and was given the remaining "188 days" of an existing permit to stay.

Edited November 12, 2017 by elviajero

[tgeezer]

I currently hold a Non O "Retirement" visa reporting every 90 days. For family personal reasons I have to return to my home country for an undefined period. If I apply for a multiple re-entry permit my maximum return date to Thailand will be just prior to my next 90 day report date. If need be, can I then leave Thailand and return again prior to the next 90 day report. Is there a limit with a multiple re-entry permit on how many day I can be out of Thailand in one Non O retirement visa year?

I see, so what is the question? He has permission to stay until 25/10/18. If he gets a reentry permit it will expire on 25/10/18. He can be outside the country for as long as he likes, but if he wants to extend his stay past 25/10/18 he needs to renter before that date. His confusion seems more to do with 90 day report date than nomenclature. Immigration has had to tell us the date 90 days hence because some people couldn’t work it out for themselves, apparently Immigration needs to add: “if you remain in the country”.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bigginhill]

I have an O (with retirement extensions, over 50), am I right in thinking that I am better off with the O, compared to the OA? As I haven't understood the difference with the OA, is it that the OA will eventually expire, instead that the O as long as I renew I can keep it, is that the only difference?

Can I take advantage of this discussion? My O ( retirement extensions) will expire the 30th March 2018, I'm abroad and will come to Bkk the beginning of March to renew. However my passport expires in August 2018, do I have to bring a new passport with me? Renewing the passport 6 months early.

Or will they put the new expiry date in the old one and I can get a new passport in August and  next year I bring both passports?

Thanks

[JackThompson]

19 minutes ago, bigginhill said:

I have an O (with retirement extensions, over 50), am I right in thinking that I am better off with the O? As I haven't understood the difference with the OA, is it that the OA will eventually expire, instead that the O as long as I renew I can keep it, is that the only difference?

Can I take advantage of this discussion? My O ( retirement extensions) will expire the 30th March 2018, I'm abroad and will come to Bkk the beginning of March to renew. However my passport expires in August 2018, do I have to bring a new passport with me? Renewing the passport 6 months early.

Or will they put the new expiry date in the old one and I can get a new passport in August and  next year I bring both passports?

Thanks

 

If you already are doing extensions-of-stay at immigration - yes, bring your new passport so that you can get a full 1-year extension when you apply in March.  If you did not bring the new passport, you would only get an extension of stay valid for as long as your old passport's expiration-date. 

 

An OA Visa, available only in your passport-country, is a 1-year Multiple-Entry visa, which gives you a "one-year" permitted-stay stamp every time you enter.  It's "enter before" date is 1 year after issuance, and you can enter on or before that day and get a year permitted-stay from that date of use (though need a re-entry permit to keep that last permission valid).  The primary advantage of the Non-OA is that you can keep qualifying money in a bank outside of Thailand, and you can avoid dealing with immigration in Thailand, with the exception of 90-day reports  (though I would bet many on Non-OA Visas never do 90-day reports, since they are not enforced at points of entry). 

Edited November 12, 2017 by JackThompson

[bigginhill]

26 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

If you already are doing extensions-of-stay at immigration - yes, bring your new passport so that you can get a full 1-year extension when you apply in March.  If you did not bring the new passport, you would only get an extension of stay valid for as long as your old passport's expiration-date. 

 

An OA Visa, available only in your passport-country, is a 1-year Multiple-Entry visa, which gives you a "one-year" permitted-stay stamp every time you enter.  It's "enter before" date is 1 year after issuance, and you can enter on or before that day and get a year permitted-stay from that date of use (though need a re-entry permit to keep that last permission valid).  The primary advantage of the Non-OA is that you can keep qualifying money in a bank outside of Thailand, and you can avoid dealing with immigration in Thailand, with the exception of 90-day reports  (though I would bet many on Non-OA Visas never do 90-day reports, since they are not enforced at points of entry). 

Thanks! I will get a new passport before I go for the renewal as I leave Thailand until the following year. 

Thanks for the info about the OA, at the moment I am using partial sums in Thailand and a declaration of income from the embassy.  

[overherebc]

To be honest I don't know the exact circumstances relating to an OA visa. My 'assumption' is that irrespective of visa/extension a 90 day report is required, will accept  a correction that I'm wrong.

I know that with an OA you can leave and re-enter as often as you feel like or need to within the first year and each time you will get a 1 year permitted to stay stamp and a couple of days or so before the enter by date you will get another 1 year permission to stay. During the 2nd year you need a re-entry permit or you lose the rest of the year permission and end up with 30 days VE ??

In any case you need to do 90 day reports or leave and enter with a e-entry permit ???

Asking, not quoting.

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

To be honest I don't know the exact circumstances relating to an OA visa. My 'assumption' is that irrespective of visa/extension a 90 day report is required, will accept  a correction that I'm wrong.

I know that with an OA you can leave and re-enter as often as you feel like or need to within the first year and each time you will get a 1 year permitted to stay stamp and a couple of days or so before the enter by date you will get another 1 year permission to stay. During the 2nd year you need a re-entry permit or you lose the rest of the year permission and end up with 30 days VE ??

In any case you need to do 90 day reports or leave and enter with a e-entry permit ???

Asking, not quoting.

Any time you are in Thailand more than 90-days, and did not apply for an extension of stay within that period, you must file a 90-day report by law.  The rule would apply to those on OA Visas just as it applies to those on Elite Visas.  Filing for an extension (example - a 60-day extension on a 90-day entry) counts as reporting, so no "90-day report" is needed.

 

As to what happens if a person stays here most of the time for years on Non-OAs (or Elite) and never goes to an immigration office and never files a 90-day report - it would seem they could be liable for fines when/if ever caught for this.

[overherebc]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

Any time you are in Thailand more than 90-days, and did not apply for an extension of stay within that period, you must file a 90-day report by law.  The rule would apply to those on OA Visas just as it applies to those on Elite Visas.  Filing for an extension (example - a 60-day extension on a 90-day entry) counts as reporting, so no "90-day report" is needed.

 

As to what happens if a person stays here most of the time for years on Non-OAs (or Elite) and never goes to an immigration office and never files a 90-day report - it would seem they could be liable for fines when/if ever caught for this.

Thanks. I sort of knew that was the way but I try not to 'quote' especially if I'm not 100% sure on it. The visa and WP conditions can be a bit of a maze here at times and I am still learning after being here since the early 90's.

Happy to be retired now so not so many hurdles.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, bigginhill said:

I have an O (with retirement extensions, over 50), am I right in thinking that I am better off with the O, compared to the OA? As I haven't understood the difference with the OA, is it that the OA will eventually expire, instead that the O as long as I renew I can keep it, is that the only difference?

Can I take advantage of this discussion? My O ( retirement extensions) will expire the 30th March 2018, I'm abroad and will come to Bkk the beginning of March to renew. However my passport expires in August 2018, do I have to bring a new passport with me? Renewing the passport 6 months early.

Or will they put the new expiry date in the old one and I can get a new passport in August and  next year I bring both passports?

Thanks

It becomes less confusing if you keep in mind that visas and extensions are two completely different (mostly unrelated) things.

 

The visa is simply used when entering the country, and usually confers a permission to stay. When you wish to stay past the 'Enter before' date on your permission to stay, you can apply for an extension on various bases. The same TM7 form is used for all applications for extensions, and often the type of visa used when entering the country is not relevant to your eligibility for the extension. In the case of an extension for purposes of retirement, it makes no difference whether you originally entered on a Non O or on a Non O-A visa.