dexterm Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 1 hour ago, sanemax said: The fact that the Palestinians do not accept Israel as a Country and they wish to destroy Israel is the reason for their treatment . Better take that point up with the editor of Haaretz, one of Israel's oldest and respected newspapers, and the Jewish Virtual Library, rather than parroting the Zionist mythologizers' perfect narrative where Israel is always the victim. "How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel? Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine."http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.579701 Yasser Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist as far back as 1988, and repeated it in writing in 1993 at the Oslo Accords. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, dexterm said: Better take that point up with the editor of Haaretz, one of Israel's oldest and respected newspapers, and the Jewish Virtual Library, rather than parroting the Zionist mythologizers' perfect narrative where Israel is always the victim. "How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel? Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine."http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.579701 Yasser Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist as far back as 1988, and repeated it in writing in 1993 at the Oslo Accords. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html Not this again . The Hammas charter , who are the Palestinians leaders in Gaza , calls for the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state and to be replaced by an Islamic state , that has always been the case , nothing has changed over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexterm Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, sanemax said: Not this again . The Hammas charter , who are the Palestinians leaders in Gaza , calls for the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state and to be replaced by an Islamic state , that has always been the case , nothing has changed over the years Keep up to speed. Your Zionist apologist manual is out of date. "Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders The world is waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine's right to exist, not the other way round. Edited November 13, 2017 by dexterm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 5 hours ago, Rancid said: So is arguing against Israel unilaterally bombing another country anti-Semitic? Is it OK for Oz to bomb New Zealand because it has too many Maoris? Or the UK to bomb France because, well because there are too many French, or what about Iran bombing Israel because there are too many Islamaphobes? Seems we in the West hold different criteria for different groups, it was OK for NATO to bomb Serbia and Libya, it is OK for KSA to bomb Yemen, it is OK for Israel and the US to bomb Syria, in fact it was OK for the US to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. But it isn't OK for other groups/countries to do the same like when, when...well who else actually does it? No, that would be you trying for a lame straw man argument. Failed. As for the rest of your contrived crapola: Australia is not at a state of war with New Zealand, nor is there a Maori military organization operation outside New Zealand's govrenment's control or policy against Australia. The same goes for the UK, France and most other nonsense examples you're likely to come up with. And it's not about bombing because there are too many, of course. That's just something you pulled out of your rear end. Same goes for the feigned ignorance of other countries actions. Seems like some posters have trouble coming to terms with the world not being a prefect place, nor precisely running according to their faux strict ethical code. That's if one actually takes these views seriously, and not as the BS their are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreytMan Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) Same old tiresome posts by the Israeli apologists. I have better things to do with my day than to continually disprove their claim to being heroes and victims at the same time. They are clearly capable of any action in order to get the result that they want. No different from many other nations. They aren't special in this regard. But once again, there is good and bad in every nation. One man's freedom fighter/hero is another man's terrorist. It all depends on where you are standing. So pointless trying to paint one side as "the good guys", because they are not. By any measurement. Edited November 13, 2017 by GreytMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 2 hours ago, dexterm said: And if those arms are used to kill, maim and terrorize innocent civilians? We clearly have a different set of values. But you don't have issues with arms provided to say, Hezbollah or Assad's regime. Clearly you have a set of values, and if they don't fit, you have others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, dexterm said: Keep up to speed. Your Zionist apologist manual is out of date. "Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders Read the full charter , rather then reports of it http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-charter-1637794876 ". The Islamic Resistance Movement “Hamas” is a Palestinian Islamic national liberation and resistance movement. Its goal is to liberate Palestine and confront the Zionist project. Its frame of reference is Islam, which determines its principles, objectives and means. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras al-Naqurah in the north to Umm al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. The expulsion and banishment of the Palestinian people from their land and the establishment of the Zionist entity therein do not annul the right of the Palestinian people to their entire land and do not entrench any rights therein for the usurping Zionist entity. 3. Palestine is an Arab Islamic land." If you are unsure of where those places are Umm al-Rashrash is the most southern part of Israel (Eilat)Ras al-Naqurah is the most northerly part of Israel , and the River Jordan and the Mediterranean are the most Eastern and Western parts of Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 5 hours ago, craigt3365 said: Really? Research the new military base Iran is building in Syria not far from the Israeli border. Far from hypocrisy.... 3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said: If you're referring to a recent article, there is no surety that it is in fact a military base for Iran. It is a military base, and it is operated by Iran. The purpose seems to be recruitment of locals, mainly Shia to a new militia in the making. As it stands, Iran operates three (I think) other bases in Syria (or parts of Syrian bases allocated for Iran's use). The base mentioned is much closer, though, to Israel's border, and the purpose for which it used raises concerns that it would result in another Hezbollah-like outfit. Iran having a permanent military presence in Syria, let alone near Israel's borders will not contribute an iota for regional stability, and in all likelihood, will play an opposite role. Also worth noting that Jordan is worried about these developments as well, only that it lacks the power to do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 The worst bit in the never ending Israel - Palestine saga is that in between, on both sides of the wall, you have plain normal people who just want to be left alone, who don't give a damm of the extremist politics on either side, and just want to go to work, live, party, make a decent living, have a small hope of a future for their kids....in peace !! But why should there be peace ? Who will purchase weapons from the global arms dealing nations ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 4 hours ago, dexterm said: One could equally claim... Israel is partially funded by the USA and commits terrorist acts globally. "We know Israel is selling arms to Azerbaijan, South Sudan and Rwanda. Israel is training units guarding presidential regimes in African states. According to reports, this is happening in Cameroon, Togo and Equatorial Guinea – nondemocratic states, some of them dictatorships, that kill, plunder and oppress their citizens."https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.669852 The Bangkok bombings were tit for tat for Israel assassinating Iranians in Iran. "Thai authorities said that the bombings were a botched attempt by Iranian nationals to assassinate Israeli diplomats" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Bangkok_bombings This is a stickler topic, with lots of thorns sticking out every direction. However, I found this little bit of stats from 2013 (Wikipedia): Country Economic and Military Assistance FY 2013, $US millions Aid received per person recipient FY2013, $US Israel 2961.04 million $367/person Egypt 1566.24 million $19/person Jordan 1211.83 million $188/person West Bank/Gaza 1007.73 million $370/person Note: the amount Uncle Sam gives to each Palestinian is the same as to each Israeli. Arab nations comprise 75% of top four spots. I think Turkey is #5. As for Dexterm's claim; " Israel .....commits terrorist acts globally." I don't agree. Where does Israel commit terrorist acts? At Entebbe Uganda, Israel killed some guards at an airport, but it was to free Israeli civilians who had been taken hostage. When 2 Israeli jets went clandestinely at night to bomb a nuclear reactor in Iraq, it was to disable Saddam's manufacture of weapons grade U. It was successful, and there was zero retaliation by Iraq. When Israeli commados killed several Arabs in Germany, it was specifically those Arabs which had kidnapped and killed Olympic athletes, months earlier. My dad was a career CIA man. More than once he quipped: "if you want an undercover job done well, hire the Israelis." It's still true today, particularly with Trump in the Oval Office, who will tell Russian agents anything they want to know about clandestine US agents overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, GreytMan said: I was waiting for you to start with the anti Semitism accusations. I was just stating that the usual suspects appear whenever Israel is discussed. Some easily identified by their names. I didn't realise quoting someone's user name qualified as a "disgusting Jew(sic) baiting" post. Morch, Ezzra, Jingthing all pop up in defence of anything Israel, no matter how indefensible, That is a fact. Jew baiting and anti semite are just terms you have over utilised in order to stifle argument. No one takes them seriously any more. You really should take better care over your punctuation, lest someone accuse you of worse. You were waiting? No, dude. You were BAITING. Be a man and ADMIT it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron19 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 In a thread cleanup a large number of mainly off topic posts have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 More off-topic posts and replies have been removed. Continue at your own peril. Suspensions will be given if it continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 4 hours ago, Morch said: It is a military base, and it is operated by Iran. The purpose seems to be recruitment of locals, mainly Shia to a new militia in the making. As it stands, Iran operates three (I think) other bases in Syria (or parts of Syrian bases allocated for Iran's use). The base mentioned is much closer, though, to Israel's border, and the purpose for which it used raises concerns that it would result in another Hezbollah-like outfit. Iran having a permanent military presence in Syria, let alone near Israel's borders will not contribute an iota for regional stability, and in all likelihood, will play an opposite role. Also worth noting that Jordan is worried about these developments as well, only that it lacks the power to do anything about it. Really? It's a sure thing? Iran building permanent military base in Syria - claim http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41945189 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said: Really? It's a sure thing? Iran building permanent military base in Syria - claim http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41945189 Yes. If you wish to learn more, in English...perhaps google battalion/brigade/unit 313 in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Morch said: Yes. If you wish to learn more, in English...perhaps google battalion/brigade/unit 313 in this context. why so coy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, ilostmypassword said: why so coy? Why troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, Morch said: Why troll? Yes. clearly my citing the BBC article which seems to have prompted all this talk about Iran establishing a permanent baseis trolling. Another word you've redefined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said: Yes. clearly my citing the BBC article which seems to have prompted all this talk about Iran establishing a permanent baseis trolling. Another word you've redefined. I was referring to this post: And not to your BBC reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChouDoufu Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 correct me if i am mistaken. syria is a sovereign nation. iran is present in syria by invitation. just checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said: correct me if i am mistaken. syria is a sovereign nation. iran is present in syria by invitation. just checking. Syria is nominally a sovereign country, yes. De facto, perhaps not fully so. That aside, Syria is in a state of war with Israel. Iran is not so, officially, but openly hostile to Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 correct me if i am mistaken. syria is a sovereign nation. iran is present in syria by invitation. just checking.It's complicated. Anyway suppose north Korea had a military operation in Vancouver in a war torn Canada. Do you think the USA would or should do nothing? Welcome to the real world. Israel feels a nearby threat and they can do something about it they are. Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChouDoufu Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 perhaps this is a response to the us bases being constructed WITHIN syria.....without permission of course? a response to the us base just established in israel? a response to the terrorists being financed, armed and directed by saudi arabia, israel, and the usa? perhaps syria feels a nearby threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, ChouDoufu said: perhaps this is a response to the us bases being constructed WITHIN syria.....without permission of course? a response to the us base just established in israel? a response to the terrorists being financed, armed and directed by saudi arabia, israel, and the usa? perhaps syria feels a nearby threat. Perhaps you should be clearer regarding which base you think the USA "just" established in Israel. If Assad does feel threatened by Israel, he could do whatever he likes - but since the countries are at a state of war, Israel can take action as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChouDoufu Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 In first, US establishes permanent military base in Israel For the first time in history, the United States on Monday established an official, permanent military base in Israel: an air defense base in the heart of the Negev desert. https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-us-establishes-permanent-military-base-in-israel/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, ChouDoufu said: In first, US establishes permanent military base in Israel For the first time in history, the United States on Monday established an official, permanent military base in Israel: an air defense base in the heart of the Negev desert. https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-us-establishes-permanent-military-base-in-israel/ That? It's just the follow up to a "not permanent" deployment which been nearby for years now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimona_Radar_Facility But even if it was, it's essentially an air defense thing, not a direct threat on Syria, and nowhere near the Syrian border, at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 On 11/13/2017 at 10:22 PM, Morch said: That? It's just the follow up to a "not permanent" deployment which been nearby for years now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimona_Radar_Facility But even if it was, it's essentially an air defense thing, not a direct threat on Syria, and nowhere near the Syrian border, at that. I haven't read details, but you sound correct. If the US is building a base in the Negev desert, it's most likely for defense, .....though regarding military, defense can be readily switched to offense, if need be. The Syrians can bitch and moan, but they aren't going to attack Israel any time in this generation or the next. They've gotten their noses bloodies enough already. However, if Iran gets nukes, it's almost certain their bosom buddies in Syria will also get nukes. Then that obviously changes the equation. Rarely, in human history, has a country developed weapons and never used them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 On 11/15/2017 at 9:27 AM, boomerangutang said: I haven't read details, but you sound correct. If the US is building a base in the Negev desert, it's most likely for defense, .....though regarding military, defense can be readily switched to offense, if need be. The Syrians can bitch and moan, but they aren't going to attack Israel any time in this generation or the next. They've gotten their noses bloodies enough already. However, if Iran gets nukes, it's almost certain their bosom buddies in Syria will also get nukes. Then that obviously changes the equation. Rarely, in human history, has a country developed weapons and never used them. Readily switched to offense how? The two references above do not mention anything that can be used offensively. Israel would see Iranian military presence in Syria as a threat, but nuclear weapons aren't a part of that. The likelihood of Iran acquiring nuclear weapons is low, and that of handing such to Assad's regime, even lower. Trust is not the hallmark of ME relations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChouDoufu Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 defense against.....who? no country in the nearby has the capability to attack. the point of air defense in this case is to defeat another country's deterrence, allowing israel to continue to attack others with impunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said: defense against.....who? no country in the nearby has the capability to attack. the point of air defense in this case is to defeat another country's deterrence, allowing israel to continue to attack others with impunity. Ummm....Israel gets hit with missile attacks fairly frequently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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