Can adopted Thai son gain Australian citizenship

[scorecard]

Just wondering if any other OZ folks have experience of this situation:

 

My Thai wife (since passed on) and I took in a Thai young man to live full time with us when he was  21 years old, he had previously often slept over for many many years and we had been funding his education and living and welfare for many years. He had been living with an older sister close to our house (the older sister saw him as a nuisance and was doing nothing to take care of him in any way or supervise his education or health needs etc).

 

Before he moved in with us my Thai wife (a doctor of medicine) and the young man went to visit his birth mother (his father had passed on many years before) who was hundreds of kilometers away to ask for her permission for him to move into our house. They had all spoken together many times before.

 

His birth mother (desperately poor) readily agreed and the conversation went further and his birth mother agreed that if we wanted to and her son wanted she would have no objection to us formally adopting the young man, and he was quite happy for this to happen.

 

We applied to the interior ministry, all went for an interview and the ministry spoke to his original birth mother and an adult adoption was approved and we received an official document to that effect. The approval document includes full details of everybody involved including my name and Australian passport number etc.

 

It's now 15 years on, the young man has a masters degree and a good career and is happily married to a very pleasant Thai lady and they have kids.

 

Here's the question, would he qualify for Australian citizenship?

 

And if the answer is yes, would his Thai wife and kids then also qualify for Australian citizenship?

 

My aim is to see what others may have experienced before I make an official approach to the Australian authorities. 

(Please folks I'm only interested in facts, not armchair gossip and opinions.) 

 

 

[ELVIS123456]

No - he is not entitled to Australian citizenship. Period.

 

He may be able to apply for Migration to Australia as a skilled migrant, and if successful apply for Citizenship after gaining Permanent Residency.  You as an Australian citizen, and with his working credentials, will both help.

 

You need to talk to VFS Global who are the 'partner' who processes all Visa applications in Thailand, and to the Australian Dept of Immigration, and to the Australian Embassy in Thailand.

http://www.vfsglobal.com/Australia/Thailand/index.html

http://www.border.gov.au/about/corporate/information/fact-sheets/01backgd

http://thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/Visas_and_Migration.html

 

Beware of Migration experts/organisations in Thailand. Many will say yes he can apply, take his money and lodge the application (maybe), and then say it was not approved a year or so later. If you are going to go through this difficult and lengthy process, but you want/need some professional help, then find a Migration Agent in Australia to assist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaiyen]

To become an Australian citizen you have to live in Australia at least 4 years, 2 years to become a permanent resident and then another 2 to apply for citizenship. First he has to get into Australia which will be very difficult. However he is married to a Thai not an Aussie so I think it would be impossible unless he has a very in demand skill in his work.

[shadowmaster1971]

1 hour ago, jaiyen said:

To become an Australian citizen you have to live in Australia at least 4 years, 2 years to become a permanent resident and then another 2 to apply for citizenship. First he has to get into Australia which will be very difficult. However he is married to a Thai not an Aussie so I think it would be impossible unless he has a very in demand skill in his work.

I would add that if you are a foreign national married to australian, depending on your circumstances you can be exempt from the temporary visa requirements and the 2 year requirement to become a permanent resident and be granted permanent residency immediately.

[docsmith]

Check out this link.  https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Citi/pathways-processes/application-options/adoption

 

Thailand is a signatory to the Hague Convention on intercountry adoption 

 

It reads to me that an adult can apply for citizenship if the were adopted outside Australia.

 

This is the form to use Form 1272 – Application for Australian Citizenship for children adopted under full Hague Convention or bilateral agreements (386KB PDF). 

 

This paragraph in the form says you can check with the local embassy if your adoption paper are acceptable.  

 

 An Adoption Compliance Certificate must comply with Article 23 of the Hague Convention. We recommend that before submitting an application using form 1272, you check with your nearest office of the Department or Australian mission overseas whether the documentation provided is a valid Adoption Compliance Certificate for the purposes of an application for Australian citizenship. If the incorrect form is used, the application will be refused and the application fee will not be refunded. 

 

I might be wrong but it is worth a phone call to the embassy.

 

[rocart]

14 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

No - he is not entitled to Australian citizenship. Period.

 

He may be able to apply for Migration to Australia as a skilled migrant, and if successful apply for Citizenship after gaining Permanent Residency.  You as an Australian citizen, and with his working credentials, will both help.

 

You need to talk to VFS Global who are the 'partner' who processes all Visa applications in Thailand, and to the Australian Dept of Immigration, and to the Australian Embassy in Thailand.

http://www.vfsglobal.com/Australia/Thailand/index.html

http://www.border.gov.au/about/corporate/information/fact-sheets/01backgd

http://thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/Visas_and_Migration.html

 

Beware of Migration experts/organisations in Thailand. Many will say yes he can apply, take his money and lodge the application (maybe), and then say it was not approved a year or so later. If you are going to go through this difficult and lengthy process, but you want/need some professional help, then find a Migration Agent in Australia to assist.

Elvis is right because of the adoption. If it was a DNA question we at easyDNA do a significant number of Immigration Tests for DFAT which must be NATA approved and done under strict conditions. If no DNA testing is available through the agent, the test will end up in one of 5 or 6 testing groups of which we are two.

[scorecard]

18 hours ago, shadowmaster1971 said:

I would add that if you are a foreign national married to australian, depending on your circumstances you can be exempt from the temporary visa requirements and the 2 year requirement to become a permanent resident and be granted permanent residency immediately.

 

Thanks, but not quite sure what your meaning.  The situation is:

 

- I was born in Australia and I carry an Australian passport.

- My deceased wife was a Thai national. (She never applied for Australian citizenship.)

- My adopted son born in Thailand to Thai parents, he has a standard Thai ID card and Thai passport.

- My adopted son's wife was born in Thailand to Thai parents, standard Thai ID card and Thai passport.

 

Appreciate if you would comment further, thanks.

[Will27]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Thanks, but not quite sure what your meaning.  The situation is:

 

- I was born in Australia and I carry an Australian passport.

- My deceased wife was a Thai national. (She never applied for Australian citizenship.)

- My adopted son born in Thailand to Thai parents, he has a standard Thai ID card and Thai passport.

- My adopted son's wife was born in Thailand to Thai parents, standard Thai ID card and Thai passport.

 

Appreciate if you would comment further, thanks.

I'm pretty sure he was referring to obtaining a partner visa.

 

Nothing really to do with your son trying to obtain Oz citizenship really.

[ELVIS123456]

17 hours ago, docsmith said:

Check out this link.  https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Citi/pathways-processes/application-options/adoption

 

Thailand is a signatory to the Hague Convention on intercountry adoption 

 

It reads to me that an adult can apply for citizenship if the were adopted outside Australia.

 

This is the form to use Form 1272 – Application for Australian Citizenship for children adopted under full Hague Convention or bilateral agreements (386KB PDF). 

 

This paragraph in the form says you can check with the local embassy if your adoption paper are acceptable.  

 

 An Adoption Compliance Certificate must comply with Article 23 of the Hague Convention. We recommend that before submitting an application using form 1272, you check with your nearest office of the Department or Australian mission overseas whether the documentation provided is a valid Adoption Compliance Certificate for the purposes of an application for Australian citizenship. If the incorrect form is used, the application will be refused and the application fee will not be refunded. 

 

I might be wrong but it is worth a phone call to the embassy.

 

As far as I am aware, this only applies for an Australian in Australia adopting a child from overseas through approved Australian adoption agencies, and with eligible agencies in the other country.  I am certain this does not apply in this situation for the above reasons, and because the Thai man is no longer a child. But worth a call - you never know.

 

 

 

[ELVIS123456]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Thanks, but not quite sure what your meaning.  The situation is:

 

- I was born in Australia and I carry an Australian passport.

- My deceased wife was a Thai national. (She never applied for Australian citizenship.)

- My adopted son born in Thailand to Thai parents, he has a standard Thai ID card and Thai passport.

- My adopted son's wife was born in Thailand to Thai parents, standard Thai ID card and Thai passport.

 

Appreciate if you would comment further, thanks.

The answer is no - your adopted son is not 'entitled' to Australian citizenship.

He will have to apply to be a Migrant (together with his Thai wife and children) - and you as the Sponsor would help.

 

Are you going to move back to Australia and live there permanently?

 

[scorecard]

Just now, ELVIS123456 said:

The answer is no - your adopted son is not 'entitled' to Australian citizenship.

He will have to apply to be a Migrant (together with his Thai wife and children) - and you as the Sponsor would help.

 

Are you going to move back to Australia and live there permanently?

 

 

No.

[ELVIS123456]

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

No.

Then the answer is definitely no.

 

His best/only chance to get it is through becoming a Migrant.

 

[Sheryl]

Does Australia even recognize "adult adoptions"? Many countries' adoption laws limit adoption to minors.

 

See https://www.justanswer.com/australian-law/7cd72-possible-australian-citizen-adopt-adult.html

 

Had he been adopted as a child and the adoption approved/ by/registered with  the Australian government it would be different.

[shadowmaster1971]

On 11/17/2017 at 3:44 PM, Will27 said:

I'm pretty sure he was referring to obtaining a partner visa.

 

Nothing really to do with your son trying to obtain Oz citizenship really.

Correct my comment was in response to "Jaiyen's" comment in which his first sentence the process described is true for one scenario.  There is more than one situation in which citizenship can be granted .  Whilst Jaiyen's comment & description of the Citizenship is relevant to OP's comments is should not be construed by other readers as that's the only way.

 

In relation to the term "permanent residency/resident" in australia it is partly true, permanent residence in australia is permanent provided that upon arriving in australia that you never leave.  When permanent residency is granted for a period of 5 you are also conferred the rights to leave and enter australia as much as you like.  After that 5 years should you wish to travel out of australia you need to obtain was is effectively a re-entry permit in to australia to continue your status as a permanent resident.  Whilst this re-entry permit is relatively straight forward to do and obtain, it has caught out some permanent residents in australia.

 

Of course the above paragraph doesn't matter if you never leave australia.

[inu]

Hi Scorecard- the answer is yes- it is possible if you adopted your son when he was a child. Please refer: http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Life/Adoption-of-children/australians-overseas

 

I am currently applying- although my situation is different as I am still in the process of adoption. But Australian Immigration have confirmed on several occasions that my soon to be adopted daughter will be eligible for citizenship -providing she meets the criteria- which she does.

 

Good luck!

[exemplary21]

On 11/16/2017 at 6:14 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

You need to talk to VFS Global who are the 'partner' who processes all Visa applications in Thailand, and to the Australian Dept of Immigration, and to the Australian Embassy in Thailand.

 

Not quite.

 

Some visas for Australia can now be done online, but you may still need to visit VFS to do biometrics.

[Russell17au]

On 16/11/2017 at 9:16 PM, shadowmaster1971 said:

I would add that if you are a foreign national married to australian, depending on your circumstances you can be exempt from the temporary visa requirements and the 2 year requirement to become a permanent resident and be granted permanent residency immediately.

When did that change because when I took my Thai wife to Australian it took 10 months from the application to be given temporary residency for 2 years before being given permanent residency and the approval of her temporary residency was in 2013 with her permanent residency 2015

[tryasimight]

On 17/11/2017 at 6:39 AM, rocart said:

Elvis is right because of the adoption. If it was a DNA question we at easyDNA do a significant number of Immigration Tests for DFAT which must be NATA approved and done under strict conditions. If no DNA testing is available through the agent, the test will end up in one of 5 or 6 testing groups of which we are two.

What is the significance of DNA testing in respect to adoption? 

[tryasimight]

2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

When did that change because when I took my Thai wife to Australian it took 10 months from the application to be given temporary residency for 2 years before being given permanent residency and the approval of her temporary residency was in 2013 with her permanent residency 2015

My wife has just received permanent residency after two years..... This month.... Two weeks ago to be precise. 

Not that it is true permanent residency in reality as it is for five years only and requires a reentry visa equivalent if travelling overseas. If a significant amount of time is spent overseas there is no guarantee that reentry will be permitted. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by tryasimight

[hoffy66]

On 21/11/2017 at 8:48 PM, shadowmaster1971 said:

Correct my comment was in response to "Jaiyen's" comment in which his first sentence the process described is true for one scenario.  There is more than one situation in which citizenship can be granted .  Whilst Jaiyen's comment & description of the Citizenship is relevant to OP's comments is should not be construed by other readers as that's the only way.

 

In relation to the term "permanent residency/resident" in australia it is partly true, permanent residence in australia is permanent provided that upon arriving in australia that you never leave.  When permanent residency is granted for a period of 5 you are also conferred the rights to leave and enter australia as much as you like.  After that 5 years should you wish to travel out of australia you need to obtain was is effectively a re-entry permit in to australia to continue your status as a permanent resident.  Whilst this re-entry permit is relatively straight forward to do and obtain, it has caught out some permanent residents in australia.

 

Of course the above paragraph doesn't matter if you never leave australia.

I am at a loss to understand this , about after 5 years thing, my wife a thai, has lived in australia for more than 5 years and we travel back to thailand fairly often, never heard of a re-entry permit, she was given another permanent residency visa at the end of the first one.

[ELVIS123456]

On 11/25/2017 at 10:48 PM, exemplary21 said:

 

Not quite.

 

Some visas for Australia can now be done online, but you may still need to visit VFS to do biometrics.

The ability to do it Migrant Visas on-line does not now exist from within many countries - including Thailand. When you apply for a Migrant Visa on-line you are in effect applying directly to the Aust Immigration Dept in Australia.  That used to be permitted years ago from Thailand, but as far as I am aware it is now not permitted - you must apply through the in-country system - which is through VFS Global.  I am not certain about Business or Tourist Visas, but I believe that they are now also only through VFS in Thailand.

 

[4MyEgo]

On 21/11/2017 at 9:48 PM, shadowmaster1971 said:

Correct my comment was in response to "Jaiyen's" comment in which his first sentence the process described is true for one scenario.  There is more than one situation in which citizenship can be granted .  Whilst Jaiyen's comment & description of the Citizenship is relevant to OP's comments is should not be construed by other readers as that's the only way.

 

In relation to the term "permanent residency/resident" in australia it is partly true, permanent residence in australia is permanent provided that upon arriving in australia that you never leave.  When permanent residency is granted for a period of 5 you are also conferred the rights to leave and enter australia as much as you like.  After that 5 years should you wish to travel out of australia you need to obtain was is effectively a re-entry permit in to australia to continue your status as a permanent resident.  Whilst this re-entry permit is relatively straight forward to do and obtain, it has caught out some permanent residents in australia.

 

Of course the above paragraph doesn't matter if you never leave australia.

A very valid point, my Thai wife was a permanent resident and we were not going to get Australian Citizenship, because as far as my research showed, the only real difference was that she would be able to vote, however as we were moving to Thailand (2 years now), we read upon this 5 years and decided to get the Australian Citizenship done, so that she didn't get caught out.

 

Now we are about to start the process for her two twin boys aged 13 to get their Australian Citizenship without me adopting them, unless its absolutely necessary, as I hate paperwork, no doubt she will be doing all the research for the best possible and less hassle process.

 

I hope the original poster gets a good outcome for the adopted son and his wife and children to get to Australia for a "better life" while most of us can't wait to get here.

[4MyEgo]

On 26/11/2017 at 7:51 AM, hoffy66 said:

I am at a loss to understand this , about after 5 years thing, my wife a thai, has lived in australia for more than 5 years and we travel back to thailand fairly often, never heard of a re-entry permit, she was given another permanent residency visa at the end of the first one.

Her permanent residency visa has to be renewed for 5 years, link attached with process:

 

https://www.border.gov.au/Lega/Lega/Form/Immi-FAQs/i-am-a-permanent-resident-of-australia-what-documents-do-i-need-to-return-to-australia

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[shadowmaster1971]

On 11/25/2017 at 8:05 PM, Russell17au said:

When did that change because when I took my Thai wife to Australian it took 10 months from the application to be given temporary residency for 2 years before being given permanent residency and the approval of her temporary residency was in 2013 with her permanent residency 2015

It has been around for a while.  My wife applied for her visa in Feb 2012 and was granted permanent residence in Sep 2012. ( exempted from the 2 year temporary requirement). Her application was coordinated through Sydney. Then she moved over to Sydney in October 2012.