Poor really are getting poorer in Thailand

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

Most People,  foreigners who live in Thailand have never been in the provinces and seen the real poverty.

The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives revealed that about 7.7 million people have registered with the banks. Most of them or 3.2 million people live in the Northeast.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/13-million-registered-state-welfare/

Largely an agricultural industry.

 

[sjaak327]

8 hours ago, halloween said:

When their "representation" danced to the tune of a corrupt fugitive criminal in return for a fat monthly payment, their influence must have been huge.

As evidenced by this report, the situation got worse, to people that know these criminals it comes as no suprise.

 

just a few naieve coup supporters such as yourself might be surprised, but these people don't care about Thai people at all...

[trogers]

1 hour ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Worldwide problem.

 

Name one country in which, the Rich aren't getting richer and the poor getting poorer?

 

I can't think of one. ?

Denmark.

 

 

[idman]

For God's sake it's not just the poor getting poorer the lower end of the Middle Class are quickly sinking into poor status. All due to rapidly increasing household debt.  Thais in this group have to have latest status mobile phone, they have to drive a car, they have to be seen as well off.  Prices across the board have risen steadly and will continue to do so but yet at the same time wage hikes remain stagnant or non existant.  The confidence in the Thai economy as expressed in polls of this group is very low.  It will come to a boiling point in the near future and it won't be pretty.

[billd766]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

This figure represent less than 10% of the population, almost every Thai 

person owns a smartphone, a motorcycle or and a piece of gold ornaments,

most Thais now days will scoff at a minimum wage days work, a young guard

girl with no formal education get over 10,000 baht a month at our condo,

Thai people get fat and drink a lot, and travel overseas frequently, 

however, there's a serious issue with the elderly and the disabled who

has to do with a peanuts for living and something clearly has to be done there....

 

I have no idea where you live in Thailand but out here in rural Khampaeng Phet many Thais own a smartphone as you can buy one for 2 or 3 thousand baht but they don't always have the money to use them.

 

Most of the motorcycles out here are older models and are the sole form of family transport including taking the kids to school, mum to the market and sometimes Dad to work if there is work available.

 

Any gold that they have is usually hocked twice a year to pay for school fees, clothes and books for their kids so that in the future the kids can escape the poverty traps.

 

I don't think that more than perhaps 10% of the villagers have ever been abroad in their lives and most are unlikely to go either.

 

Yes, some Thai people are fat and some do drink a lot just like a lot more farangs in their native environment. There are certainly more fat kids around now than when I first came up here are there are a whole lot more fat people in BKK when I was down there last weekend.

 

In rural Thailand there are fewer jobs for those with no formal education and certainly few condos for them to work in no matter what salary is offered.

 

There's a serious issue with the elderly and the disabled who has to do with a peanuts for living and something clearly has to be done there. At least some of the time the elders are looked after by the families but no all of them.

 

To give them more money taxes would have to be raised a large amount or capital expenditure would have to be cut. Blaming this government for buying submarines etc does not solve the problem. NO government that I have seen over the past 20 odd years has bothered to do anything much for them so blaming this one and not the others is just shifting the blame around.

 

How much more money could have been spent on the poor by this government is meaningless, unless you consider how much money was spent by the Thaksin goverments over the years and how much by the Democrats etc.

[Gunna]

And almost no matter how poor they are, they will still buy lottery tickets, Lao Khao, Chang and gamble, then borrow from a loan shark for rent, food, schools fees. And each year they get poorer. Even when they inherit land they use it as security against loans which they cannot afford to repay and struggle to pay the interest and eventually lose that as well and have to start renting which makes them even poorer.

 

[billd766]

34 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Just walk around the country areas and you will see it. 

 

That would mean leaving the safety and comfort of the farang ghettos and driving around in the new Fortuner and perhaps getting that dirty.

[jenny2017]

 

     

11 minutes ago, Gunna said:

And almost no matter how poor they are, they will still buy lottery tickets, Lao Khao, Chang and gamble, then borrow from a loan shark for rent, food, schools fees. And each year they get poorer. Even when they inherit land they use it as security against loans which they cannot afford to repay and struggle to pay the interest and eventually lose that as well and have to start renting which makes them even poorer.

 

Not many Isaan farmers have money to buy lottery tickets.

 

To mention poor people who have to borrow money to pay the school fees into a system that supposed to be free?

 

  You can't throw them all in one pot, can you? 

 

  

 

       

 

       

[Happyman58]

7 hours ago, blackcab said:

Nearly 6 million people below the poverty line but how many Myanmar people work on construction sites in Bangkok?

 

I know Thai people that pay about 12k a month, plus food, plus decent free live in accomodation for their Laos gardeners. They go through all the hassle and expense of getting them a work permit because there are no Thai people willing to do the job.

 

I do think a significant percentage of those people in poverty could find work if they chose to.

Correct Many Thais live below the poverty line because they dont want to work  Building sites, cafes, restaurants, Gardeners street sweepers, lots done by foreign workers  Why? Because Thais are just to bloody lazy to work They would sooner starve Wife had sign hanging from restaurant window WANTED STAFF No one bloody Thai put in for it but i stood in from at restaurant one night and saw Thais in there 30s 40 very able bodied looking for food in rubbish bins  Why is that? Just shake my head we are now looking at employing people from Laos that is how bad it is

[Get Real]

2 hours ago, hansnl said:

Quite so.

The fact is, like everywhere in the world, guest workers are hired because they are cheaper, and the local workforce doesn't want to do those jobs for the lousy pay offered.

Not something peculiar to Thailand.

Means that the companies hire cheap labour from other countries, instead of Thais then. Not that they don´t want to do the work, just that they don´t want to need to take a lower salury.

[jenny2017]

 

Someone should wonder how these people got rich? Just take it from the poor..

 

 The counties with the most billionaires in 1996 were: 1) the United States (129); 2) Germany (53); 3) Japan (37); 4) Hong Kong (14); 5) Thailand (12); 6) France (11) and 7) Mexico and Indonesia (10 each). By 2013, Thailand wasn’t even in the top 25. It ranked 10th in Asia, tied with Singapore, with 10 billionaires.

 

http://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Thailand/sub5_8c/entry-3229.html

[jenny2017]

20 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

Correct Many Thais live below the poverty line because they dont want to work  Building sites, cafes, restaurants, Gardeners street sweepers, lots done by foreign workers  Why? Because Thais are just to bloody lazy to work They would sooner starve Wife had sign hanging from restaurant window WANTED STAFF No one bloody Thai put in for it but i stood in from at restaurant one night and saw Thais in there 30s 40 very able bodied looking for food in rubbish bins  Why is that? Just shake my head we are now looking at employing people from Laos that is how bad it is

I know quite a lot of Thais who'd love to make 10 K a month, but there's nothing even close to find a job.

 

  Two relatives go working in Bangkok to be able to pay their school fees, after daddy can't work anymore after an accident and mom left.

 Are they bloody Thai because you say so? 

P.S. they don't work at bars..

 

  I had the good luck to have had relatively rich parents, but I'd never blame THE Thais. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by jenny2017
adding

[blackcab]

But if you raise wages (the Thai Labour Solidarity Committee wanted 600-700 baht per day) then I guarantee the vast majority of international companies in places like industrial estates will move to the surrounding countries.

 

So... the people won't work for the money being offered, but there's not much chance of a significant nationwide raise.

 

It looks like the status quo will remain.

[thaiguzzi]

9 hours ago, ezzra said:

This figure represent less than 10% of the population, almost every Thai 

person owns a smartphone, a motorcycle or and a piece of gold ornaments,

most Thais now days will scoff at a minimum wage days work, a young guard

girl with no formal education get over 10,000 baht a month at our condo,

Thai people get fat and drink a lot, and travel overseas frequently, 

however, there's a serious issue with the elderly and the disabled who

has to do with a peanuts for living and something clearly has to be done there....

Time you left the condo, the city, and got out a bit more then. Like in the sticks; check out the countryside villages, badly maintained road systems, corrugated shacks for homes, thin people rather than fat city Thais, and get back to us...

[jenny2017]

2 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Time you left the condo, the city, and got out a bit more then. Like in the sticks; check out the countryside villages, badly maintained road systems, corrugated shacks for homes, thin people rather than fat city Thais, and get back to us...

There's not even one person with 10 gram overweight in our village.

 

   I'm just wondering where he's got the info from? 

[blackcab]

11 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Someone should wonder how these people got rich? Just take it from the poor..

 

That is illogical. Poor people have nothing worth taking.

[jenny2017]

Just now, blackcab said:

 

That is illogical. Poor people have nothing worth taking.

 

If you'd understand how corruption works, you'd understand why so many people are poor.

 

  The village head might receive some cash for all, but....he needs a new Fortuner. 

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, Cadbury said:

That's before building 1700 kms of dreamtime high speed train routes at an expected cost of 640,000,000 baht per kilometre.  

So we have:

1,000,000,000,000 baht for 1700 kms of high speed train lines (cost of trains additional)

36,000,000,000 baht for three Chinese submarines,

8,256,000,000 baht for jet trainers from Korea

7,520,000,000 baht for Sikorsky Black Hawk helicopters from US

1,900,000,000 baht for Chinese tanks

2,300,000,000 baht for Chinese APCs     

 

Just for the military hardware alone the cost is 56,000,000,000 baht. Buying military hardware does virtually NOTHING to improve the economy except perhaps growth the wealth of some of the already rich.

The commissions and kickbacks on these deals would be the stuff dreams are made of.

Wonder what the budget deficit will look like in another 5 - 10 years. The military looks to be on course to bankrupt the country by the end of all their 20 year plans.

Little wonder there is no money left over for the poor and the farmers.

 

(E&OE)

 

 

 

Thailand's government debt to GDP ratio has historically always been very low, far lower than any western country. Last year government made a conscious decision to increase that level of debt in order to a) undertake infrastructure projects, and  upgrade military hardware in line with their neighbours in the region. It's worth noting that Thailands military spending remains under 2% of GDP, a guideline set by many countries but not always adhered to in SE Asia by regional countries.https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/government-budget

 

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=TH

 

 

[blackcab]

5 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

If you'd understand how corruption works, you'd understand why so many people are poor.

 

I understand your point, but if the whole village complained the money would magically appear again.

 

Corruption happens because people let it happen. If Thai people choose to let corruption occur that is their prerogative.

[Bob12345]

3 hours ago, blackcab said:

 [...] but equally the lower classes need a bit of get up and go aswell.

Innovation, perseverance, sound financial planning and hard work are not assets that are only owned by the elite.

That sound logical, if only they worked diligently and were willing to do some hard work they would be able to make it. Right?

 

That is called "upward mobility", "social mobility" or "financial mobility".

It shows how easy (or difficult) it is for individuals to reach a higher social or economic class than that they were born in.

 

If you look at how western countries are ranking (I couldn't find rankings for Thailand) you will notice that some countries score much better than others. In countries that score well (high social mobility) it is the quality of the person having a big influence on someone's social and economic status as an adult, while the social and economic status of their parents matter less.

 

Countries that do very well are the north-european countries with excellent and open education systems where hiring decisions are not made on basis of who you know or who your dad is. Compare that to Thailand, where someone's social status mostly depends on how much money your parents have as that determines the quality of the school you go to and the people you will meet in your life.

 

The poor in Thailand barely get an education at a young age, and even if they are able to finish school it will be worth little as they had the worst teachers and the worst curriculum available. They will not know any police men high up to keep them out of jail if they screw up, they are most likely to be handicapped at any age due to unsafe transportation (with 5 on a motorbike, or with 25 in a songtauw), and they will not know any important people who can land them an important job. Even if they want to get higher education they are out of luck as the nearest quality university might be hundreds of kilometers away.

 

Compare that to the rich here who get their kids into the most expensive private schools where they meet the future leaders of the country, they get their bachelor in an American school, and their daddy arranges them a VP position in any company they want no matter their qualification (i have studied at the most prestiges university in Thailand and some of my 22-year old classmates drove Italian sport cars to school; guess the job positions they got offered no matter their grades or skill levels. I've seen it first hand and can tell about it for hours).

 

Thailand scores really bad in social mobility.

Being born from poor parents upcountry means you will most likely end up poor, in a shitty job, with little prospects. It doesn't matter how much perseverance you have or how much hard work you put in, all the odds are against you.

[Eric Loh]

17 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

It's worth noting that Thailands military spending remains under 2% of GDP, a guideline set by many countries but not always adhered to in SE Asia by regional

Fine if spendings are to improve the performance of the military. But unfortunately many of the purchases are clouded with controversies and unaccountable to the general public who pay taxes. 

 

GT 2000 cost close to 400 M,  the airship another 350 M with 30 M yearly maintenance and the aircraft carrier cost USD380 M to build. All gone to waste and no one held reponsible nor investigated for possible corruption. 

 

The purchase of submarines and tanks have been questioned for its operation ability. The junta is making all their decisions to buy military hardware with no oversight. 

[blackcab]

3 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

That sound logical, if only they worked diligently and were willing to do some hard work they would be able to make it. Right?

 

That is called "upward mobility", "social mobility" or "financial mobility".

It shows how easy (or difficult) it is for individuals to reach a higher social or economic class than that they were born in.

 

If you look at how western countries are ranking (I couldn't find rankings for Thailand) you will notice that some countries score much better than others. In countries that score well (high social mobility) it is the quality of the person having a big influence on someone's social and economic status as an adult, while the social and economic status of their parents matter less.

 

Countries that do very well are the north-european countries with excellent and open education systems where hiring decisions are not made on basis of who you know or who your dad is. Compare that to Thailand, where someone's social status mostly depends on how much money your parents have as that determines the quality of the school you go to and the people you will meet in your life.

 

The poor in Thailand barely get an education at a young age, and even if they are able to finish school it will be worth little as they had the worst teachers and the worst curriculum available. They will not know any police men high up to keep them out of jail if they screw up, they are most likely to be handicapped at any age due to unsafe transportation (with 5 on a motorbike, or with 25 in a songtauw), and they will not know any important people who can land them an important job. Even if they want to get higher education they are out of luck as the nearest quality university might be hundreds of kilometers away.

 

Compare that to the rich here who get their kids into the most expensive private schools where they meet the future leaders of the country, they get their bachelor in an American school, and their daddy arranges them a VP position in any company they want no matter their qualification (i have studied at the most prestiges university in Thailand and some of my 22-year old classmates drove Italian sport cars to school; guess the job positions they got offered no matter their grades or skill levels. I've seen it first hand and can tell about it for hours).

 

Thailand scores really bad in social mobility.

Being born from poor parents upcountry means you will most likely end up poor, in a shitty job, with little prospects. It doesn't matter how much perseverance you have or how much hard work you put in, all the odds are against you.

 

You make excellent points and I completely agree with you.

 

What you didn't mention is that the internet holds an unimaginable quantity of knowledge and resources. Many people can access the internet in Thailand, even if they use a friend's internet or the free WiFi outside a coffee shop/guest house, etc.

 

With all of this knowledge available, where are the digital entrepreneurs, the ingenious little micro businesses, tiny start-up service businesses, etc.

 

These things could be happening and I could well be missing them.

 

Am I?

[mommysboy]

We know this already, but those in power seem not to recognize this, or simply don't want to do anything about it.

[mikecha]

9 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

Most People,  foreigners who live in Thailand have never been in the provinces and seen the real poverty.

Have u ?tell us more

[Dave67]

50 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

That is illogical. Poor people have nothing worth taking.

Its their Labour that is used and abused

[mommysboy]

8 hours ago, blackcab said:

Nearly 6 million people below the poverty line but how many Myanmar people work on construction sites in Bangkok?

 

I know Thai people that pay about 12k a month, plus food, plus decent free live in accomodation for their Laos gardeners. They go through all the hassle and expense of getting them a work permit because there are no Thai people willing to do the job.

 

I do think a significant percentage of those people in poverty could find work if they chose to.

 

Partly true, but rather over-simplistic!

 

Most true poverty involves the elderly, rural, or in some way handicapped, and it isn't a case of 'get on your bike'.

[blackcab]

2 minutes ago, Dave67 said:

Its their Labour that is used and abused

 

I thought the whole point of this thread is that there are roughly 6 million people who are existing on not much money. We then moved on to discuss that some of these people must be employable, if they chose to work.

 

Clearly, the labour of these people isn't being used and abused, because they don't appear to be doing any work.

 

If they did then they would earn enough money each month to not be counted in the OP's research.

[Dave67]

8 hours ago, blackcab said:

Nearly 6 million people below the poverty line but how many Myanmar people work on construction sites in Bangkok?

 

I know Thai people that pay about 12k a month, plus food, plus decent free live in accomodation for their Laos gardeners. They go through all the hassle and expense of getting them a work permit because there are no Thai people willing to do the job.

 

I do think a significant percentage of those people in poverty could find work if they chose to.

What a total load of bull shit. The rich employer's rates of pay are similar to slavery hence they encourage mass immigration. 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Dave67

[blackcab]

9 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Partly true, but rather over-simplistic!

 

Most true poverty involves the elderly, rural, or in some way handicapped, and it isn't a case of 'get on your bike'.

 

I do agree with you, but like I said previously, "I do think a significant percentage of those people in poverty could find work if they chose to."

 

Even 10 per cent of that number is over half a million more economically active citizens.

[Dave67]

7 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

I thought the whole point of this thread is that there are roughly 6 million people who are existing on not much money. We then moved on to discuss that some of these people must be employable, if they chose to work.

 

Clearly, the labour of these people isn't being used and abused, because they don't appear to be doing any work.

 

If they did then they would earn enough money each month to not be counted in the OP's research.

Why do think all over the world richer countries employ people from poorer countries leaving the unskilled uneducated with nothing, I've seen it every country I've working in Asia.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Dave67