Hiv

[wimpy]

It might be nice if you IMMEDIATELY ceased telling people to break the laws of Thailand

Again, what do you base this statement on?

Alcoholism, on the other hand, IS clearly stated as a prohibited disease. I can think of quite a few foreigners I have met who would qualify. They should immediately cease breaking the law, and leave Thailand.

[Pepe']

Don't get me wrong. I 've been treating AIDS patients for 12 years here in San Diego. Much of it has been on a non saleried academic appointment to associate staff here at UCSD.

I understand that you are emotional, that's putting it midly.

My opinion may be a bit cynical, having had the experiences I've had over the years as a clinician. I have given my time, lots of it and "life blood" to care for HIV + patients within my specialty.

I feel confident that I am qualified to speak.

I don't believe peoples view of HIV/AIDS patients is going to get any better any time soon. If based on nothing else but dissappearing financial resources.

Who needs them? They just drain the coffers more rapidly. They deserve what they get. I think you might be shocked to know how many people feel that way.

What's the point? Certainly you should try to optimize your health care. The ultimate solution is in your heart and in your mind.

If you can't get to a somewhat peaceful placxe now, it will only get harder as this disease progesses.

HIV?AIDS is a big money maker for drug companies and medical practioners. The politics are atrocious.

Anyway it would be time well spent to look for some solutions inside first and work outside a little later.

[taxexile]

but what we do can is to help with understanding a little bit so people open the eyes and one day look at people with HIV from another wiev what else can we do 

tell me whiteshadow , what makes hiv/aids any more special or deserving in the treatment prioritisation list than cancer, coronary heart disease,diabetes, stroke,kidney failure etc.etc.etc. especially for a country with fixed resources for offering treatment ??

they are all diseases that if not treated can lead to death.

is one patient more needing of treatment than the other.

does the cancer patient get treated before the hiv patient, does the hiv patient get treated before the cancer patient. they are both special cases along with all the other thousands of special cases.

[Pepe']

taxexile,

I have asked this same question in the past. The resounding answer seems to be that it affects people who are very young.

I have never really bought into that and as I have said have treated lots of AIDS patients over the years.

One theory is that it is a sexy disease and sex sells. DVT, deep vein thrombosis kills far more people than AIDS but you never hear about it.

Breast cancer awarness and research are huge but there are a much greater number of men killed by prostate cancer.

I forget the exact numbers but its incredible. Its all the way these diseases are marketed.

Believe it or not prescrition drugs are the fourth leading cause of morbidity and mortality in the US greater than diabetes and upper respiratory disease.

How about that!

[BangkokPI]

Regardless of what the "rules" say, there is no one administering HIV tests at the border, and no one forcing you to have an HIV test to apply for a visa, work permit or residency.  In other words, unless you admit to being HIV positive, there is nothing at all to prevent you from coming, staying, and working.

It might be nice if you IMMEDIATELY ceased telling people to break the laws of Thailand

This is PvtDick.

It looks like I have been banned from the forum because I have been seen as encouraging others to "break the laws of Thailand".

What a crock...especially since it has now been shown fairly substantively that it is NOT illegal for an HIV+ individual to enter Thailand.

I think I deserve an apology and to have my suspension lifted IMMEDIATELY. On the other hand, it may just not be worth my time to hang around here anymore.

[whiteshadow]

Regardless of what the "rules" say, there is no one administering HIV tests at the border, and no one forcing you to have an HIV test to apply for a visa, work permit or residency.  In other words, unless you admit to being HIV positive, there is nothing at all to prevent you from coming, staying, and working.

It might be nice if you IMMEDIATELY ceased telling people to break the laws of Thailand

This is PvtDick.

It looks like I have been banned from the forum because I have been seen as encouraging others to "break the laws of Thailand".

What a crock...especially since it has now been shown fairly substantively that it is NOT illegal for an HIV+ individual to enter Thailand.

I think I deserve an apology and to have my suspension lifted IMMEDIATELY. On the other hand, it may just not be worth my time to hang around here anymore.

BangkokPI,

I totally agree with you and posted the following already on the other hiv threat, but up till now no reply from the dear Dr.

******

And again dear Dr Pat Pong, you are wrong with saying it is against the law entering the country if you are hiv +. As so many times before you like to scare people on this forum while you do not have the right information. (remember 30 days visa walkers). I will leave this forum now and will never read it again.

John

********

Dear Dr. Pat Pong, please IMMEDIATLY apologize to BangkokPI/PvtDick and the rest of the forum.

John

I think it is great that someone finaly could show the facts, that it is legal to travel and live in thailand even that you have HIV og HIV +.. that is great for many people

[orchis]

The information on this site about hiv (visa and risk of contamination) is false and insulting. To have an opinion that differs ok, but to misinform and mis-moderate is unacceptable. You can count me out.

[ProThaiExpat]

Dr. Pat certainly doesn't need me to defend him regarding his posts.

This IS NOT a defense of Dr. Pat:

Wimpy and those who assume that Consular Postings abroad are controlling on immigration must keep in mind that Counsular Offices are in a different ministry than immigration and often the two don't agree.

Likewise, I was told by the Australian Counsel that each General Counsel can interpret and enforce any immigration regulation as he sees fit. Thus the wide variety of visa handlings among different Counsular offices.

I was under the impression that HIV was a disease that prohibited entry into Thailand and a deportable defense based on the answer given by ThaiImmigration.com to a question about an hiv positive man from Denmark.

I posted a question to the effect that if one was disease free upon entereing Thailand and never left, was these diseases still deportables if contracted in Thailand. The answer was "of course".

Then wimpy posted his ministerial regulations from his foreign consular web pages in that thread and there has been no reply from ThaiImmigration.com Admin even though there has been plenty of time for a response.

In the interim, Div 3 Bangkok commandant has been quoted as saying that ThaiImmigration.com has been posting erroneous information and that website is not the official one.

I have posted a request for clarification of an inconsistency in what is stated in Div 3's website and the actual practice in Bangkok immigration and no response has been obtained. A lack of a response is a typical way of Thais not responding when then don't have an answer. Mai pen rai.

There is also official recognition that there are differences in interpretations of the regulations between the various immigration offices.

Thus I think it is interesting but no way conclusive as to immigration's policy regarding HIV by quoting foreign based counsular webpage recitations of ministerial regulations.

Just as easily as not, an HIV positive traveler may very well be excluded from entry or deported by an immigration officer thinking as the ThaiImmigration.com officer posted regarding its excludability.

I am no expert on the Thai language and its preciseness, so I cannot say if it can be precisely translated into English, but from the vague nature of many regulations I have seen translated, I can only conclude a great deal of ambiguity does exist in the Thai regulations or their translation, much to most farang's dismay.

All we can hope for is learning from the various posts from farang and Thai officials and to act to our best judgement, aware that the gamut of interpretations may be encountered, much to our unpreventable detriment.

[whiteshadow]

Dr. Pat certainly doesn't need me to defend him regarding his posts.

This IS NOT a defense of Dr. Pat:

Wimpy and those who assume that Consular Postings abroad are controlling on immigration must keep in mind that Counsular Offices are in a different ministry than immigration and often the two don't agree.

Likewise, I was told by the Australian Counsel that each General Counsel can interpret and enforce any immigration regulation as he sees fit. Thus the wide variety of visa handlings among different Counsular offices.

I was under the impression that HIV was a disease that prohibited entry into Thailand and a deportable defense based on the answer given by ThaiImmigration.com to a question about an hiv positive man from Denmark.

I posted a question to the effect that if one was disease free upon entereing Thailand and never left, was these diseases still deportables if contracted in Thailand. The answer was "of course".

Then wimpy posted his ministerial regulations from his foreign consular web pages in that thread and there has been no reply from ThaiImmigration.com Admin even though there has been plenty of time for a response.

In the interim, Div 3 Bangkok commandant has been quoted as saying that ThaiImmigration.com has been posting erroneous information and that website is not the official one.

I have posted a request for clarification of an inconsistency in what is stated in Div 3's website and the actual practice in Bangkok immigration and no response has been obtained. A lack of a response is a typical way of Thais not responding when then don't have an answer. Mai pen rai.

There is also official recognition that there are differences in interpretations of the regulations between the various immigration offices.

Thus I think it is interesting but no way conclusive as to immigration's policy regarding HIV by quoting foreign based counsular webpage recitations of ministerial regulations.

Just as easily as not, an HIV positive traveler may very well be excluded from entry or deported by an immigration officer thinking as the ThaiImmigration.com officer posted regarding its excludability.

I am no expert on the Thai language and its preciseness, so I cannot say if it can be precisely translated into English, but from the vague nature of many regulations I have seen translated, I can only conclude a great deal of ambiguity does exist in the Thai regulations or their translation, much to most farang's dismay.

All we can hope for is learning from the various posts from farang and Thai officials and to act to our best judgement, aware that the gamut of interpretations may be encountered, much to our unpreventable detriment.

So dear friend, what you are saying is, that people with HIV cannot travel into thailand ?

If the thailand guvermant fon't answer anyone as you say, then it could be because there is no answer they simply don't have one...yet

Or what would the right answer be...?

[Pepe']

whieshadow,

You seem to ignore previous posts.

I will make one more attempt at communicating with you as this is turning into a waste of time.

I will nor repeat myself so you can look back at other replies.

Are you familiar with a phenominon called AIDS dementia?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Regardless of what the "rules" say, there is no one administering HIV tests at the border, and no one forcing you to have an HIV test to apply for a visa, work permit or residency.  In other words, unless you admit to being HIV positive, there is nothing at all to prevent you from coming, staying, and working.

It might be nice if you IMMEDIATELY ceased telling people to break the laws of Thailand

This is PvtDick.

It looks like I have been banned from the forum because I have been seen as encouraging others to "break the laws of Thailand".

What a crock...especially since it has now been shown fairly substantively that it is NOT illegal for an HIV+ individual to enter Thailand.

I think I deserve an apology and to have my suspension lifted IMMEDIATELY. On the other hand, it may just not be worth my time to hang around here anymore.

More misinformation. Read what Immigration said.

[wimpy]

Regardless of what the "rules" say, there is no one administering HIV tests at the border, and no one forcing you to have an HIV test to apply for a visa, work permit or residency.  In other words, unless you admit to being HIV positive, there is nothing at all to prevent you from coming, staying, and working.

It might be nice if you IMMEDIATELY ceased telling people to break the laws of Thailand

This is PvtDick.

It looks like I have been banned from the forum because I have been seen as encouraging others to "break the laws of Thailand".

What a crock...especially since it has now been shown fairly substantively that it is NOT illegal for an HIV+ individual to enter Thailand.

I think I deserve an apology and to have my suspension lifted IMMEDIATELY. On the other hand, it may just not be worth my time to hang around here anymore.

More misinformation. Read what Immigration said.

Read where? The Nong Khai Immigration site?

I find it interesting that they haven't responded to my post.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if their information is out of date.

If you have a source of other information, would you please post the link?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Not so. A person with HIV +  is not permitted to enter Thailand.

I would like to know what you base this statement on? Do you have the text of the regulation?

Everything that I have been able to find on the web, clearly states otherwise. The regulations are available on both the Los Angeles and Vancouver Consulate sites. I posted them here in an earlier message.

So where does your information come from?

For a start White Shadow has been declined a visa for Thailand in his homeland on the basis of his illness

[wimpy]

It is also interesting that the medical certicicate required for a one year retirement visa makes no metion of HIV. It can be found here. http://www.thai-la.net/visa/medcert.doc

[wimpy]

Not so. A person with HIV +  is not permitted to enter Thailand.

I would like to know what you base this statement on? Do you have the text of the regulation?

Everything that I have been able to find on the web, clearly states otherwise. The regulations are available on both the Los Angeles and Vancouver Consulate sites. I posted them here in an earlier message.

So where does your information come from?

For a start White Shadow has been declined a visa for Thailand in his homeland on the basis of his illness

Well, I guess that makes it official then... Would White Shadow like to tell us more about this?

[johninbkk2000]

Well, well, just like pvDick my post has been banned from the forum.

And all because I challange Dr. Pat Pongs statement.

Way to go, I am out of here , it is not worth anymore to hang around.

John

[johninbkk2000]

Just one more thing.

Check out the official Thai hiv/aids conference 2004 website from the Ministry of Health on http://www.aids2004.org/

Quote from this official website on the link "traveling to bangkok:

Health Regulations

No vaccinations are currently needed for entering Thailand. It is recommended that you are immunized against polio, typhoid, tetanus and hepatitis A and B.

Thailand has no specific restrictions on entry for people living with HIV/AIDS. However, be sure to familiarise yourself with the rules and regulations of all countries through which you may have to travel on your way to Thailand.

Delegates who have traveled from or through the countries which have been declared Yellow Fever Infected Areas must present the International Health Certificate providing that they have received a Yellow Fever Vaccination to the Immigration Officer upon arrival at the port of entry in the Kingdom. (Note: If there is further information for Yellow Fever Vaccination for HIV/AIDS delegates will be announced later)

So, what are your comments on this ?

John

[whiteshadow]

Not so. A person with HIV +  is not permitted to enter Thailand.

I would like to know what you base this statement on? Do you have the text of the regulation?

Everything that I have been able to find on the web, clearly states otherwise. The regulations are available on both the Los Angeles and Vancouver Consulate sites. I posted them here in an earlier message.

So where does your information come from?

For a start White Shadow has been declined a visa for Thailand in his homeland on the basis of his illness

That is absolute not try dear Dr. pat, i have never tryed to get one because the information i have is, that i cannot get one.. so where do you have that from...?

[whiteshadow]

whieshadow,

You seem to ignore previous posts.

I will make one more attempt at communicating with you as this is turning into a waste of time.

I will nor repeat myself so you can look back at other replies.

Are you familiar with a phenominon called AIDS dementia?

I have be'n reading about it yes.. but it is not very often people get that, people on medication..why

[whiteshadow]

Don't get me wrong. I 've been treating AIDS patients for 12 years here in San Diego. Much of it has been on a non saleried academic appointment to associate staff here at UCSD.

I understand that you are emotional, that's putting it midly.

My opinion may be a bit cynical, having had the experiences I've had over the years as a clinician. I have given my time, lots of it and "life blood" to care for HIV + patients within my specialty.

I feel confident that I am qualified to speak.

I don't believe peoples view of HIV/AIDS patients is going to get any better any time soon. If based on nothing else but dissappearing financial resources.

Who needs them? They just drain the coffers more rapidly. They deserve what they get. I think you might be shocked to know how many people feel that way.

What's the point? Certainly you should try to optimize your health care. The ultimate solution is in your heart and in your mind.

If you can't get to a somewhat peaceful placxe now, it will only get harder as this disease progesses.

HIV?AIDS is a big money maker for drug companies and medical practioners. The politics are atrocious.

Anyway it would be time well spent to look for some solutions inside first and work outside a little later.

Well well, if you have be'n treadin HIV patiens for so longtime then you should also know, that people who take the combination medication everyday don't get sick and don't get AIDS ever, as soon people strat to take the medication then the virus stop the progres... but you seem to know very little about this.. when i think about that you say you have be'n taking care of people with HIV.

When people eat the med every day then the virus cannot proces.. you should know that better than any one here..

[Guest KlongHin]

Not so. A person with HIV +  is not permitted to enter Thailand.

I would like to know what you base this statement on? Do you have the text of the regulation?

Everything that I have been able to find on the web, clearly states otherwise. The regulations are available on both the Los Angeles and Vancouver Consulate sites. I posted them here in an earlier message.

So where does your information come from?

For a start White Shadow has been declined a visa for Thailand in his homeland on the basis of his illness

For a start White Shadow has been declined a visa for Thailand in his homeland on the basis of his illness

I cannot see anywhere in the discussion where White Shadow says that he's been declined for a Visa.

As others have mentioned the latest Ministerial Regulation does not include HIV nor AIDS in the list of the disiases that cause the deny of the Visa for Thailand.

From where did you really get the information? Is there any change since February 20th when the Ministerial Regulation was issued by the Thai Interior Minister?

There is people around with HIV having a total normal life, people who is married to Thai citizens that travel to Thailand for family reason and undocummented comments like yours annoy a lot to them.

It is human to make mistakes, even board administrators do them, so a correction or a confirmation from your side is absolutelly needed.

And please don't tell us that thaiimmigration.com is saying the same as you're saying or that they are your source of information since they don't even can answer somebody who's posted there the latest Interior Ministry regulation.

[whiteshadow]

Not so. A person with HIV +  is not permitted to enter Thailand.

I would like to know what you base this statement on? Do you have the text of the regulation?

Everything that I have been able to find on the web, clearly states otherwise. The regulations are available on both the Los Angeles and Vancouver Consulate sites. I posted them here in an earlier message.

So where does your information come from?

For a start White Shadow has been declined a visa for Thailand in his homeland on the basis of his illness

For a start White Shadow has been declined a visa for Thailand in his homeland on the basis of his illness

I cannot see anywhere in the discussion where White Shadow says that he's been declined for a Visa.

As others have mentioned the latest Ministerial Regulation does not include HIV nor AIDS in the list of the disiases that cause the deny of the Visa for Thailand.

From where did you really get the information? Is there any change since February 20th when the Ministerial Regulation was issued by the Thai Interior Minister?

There is people around with HIV having a total normal life, people who is married to Thai citizens that travel to Thailand for family reason and undocummented comments like yours annoy a lot to them.

It is human to make mistakes, even board administrators do them, so a correction or a confirmation from your side is absolutelly needed.

And please don't tell us that thaiimmigration.com is saying the same as you're saying or that they are your source of information since they don't even can answer somebody who's posted there the latest Interior Ministry regulation.

I do agree with you VERY much, all humans make mistakes even King and Queens..

Yes is scares many people with HIV that they cannot travel to thailand and no one can give the right answer..

[Pepe']

Don't get me wrong.  I 've been treating AIDS patients for 12 years here in San Diego.  Much of it has been on a non saleried academic appointment  to associate staff here at UCSD.

I understand that you are emotional, that's putting it midly.

My opinion may be a bit cynical, having had the experiences I've had over the years as a clinician.  I have given my time, lots of it and "life blood" to care for HIV + patients within my specialty.

I feel confident that I am qualified to speak.

I don't believe peoples view of HIV/AIDS patients is going to get any better any time soon.  If based on nothing else but dissappearing financial resources.

Who needs them?  They just drain the coffers more rapidly.  They deserve what they get.  I think you might be shocked to know how many people feel that way.

What's the point?  Certainly you should try to optimize your health care.  The ultimate solution is in your heart and in your mind.

If you can't get to a somewhat peaceful placxe now, it will only get harder as this disease progesses.

HIV?AIDS is a big money maker for drug companies and medical practioners.  The politics are atrocious.

Anyway it would be time well spent to look for some solutions inside first and work outside a little later.

Well well, if you have be'n treadin HIV patiens for so longtime then you should also know, that people who take the combination medication everyday don't get sick and don't get AIDS ever, as soon people strat to take the medication then the virus stop the progres... but you seem to know very little about this.. when i think about that you say you have be'n taking care of people with HIV.

When people eat the med every day then the virus cannot proces.. you should know that better than any one here..

Again your mental health is my first concern. I will not participate in this discussiojn any longer.

Good luck to you.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I agree with you Pepe. This topic is going around and around in circles. We'll kill it as of now.