Pattaya announces new public enemy number one - smokers and their deadly cigarettes!

[Cranky]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Idiotic comment.  Air pollution is unavoidable and pervasive, and causes millions of deaths.

Idiotic comment.  Air pollution is totally avoidable, billions being spent cleaning the atmosphere - it we all said 'eff it, it's unavoidable we'll all be dead pretty soon.  Electric, solar, wind all making massive technological strides.  Think Elon Musk just thought it's 'unavoidable'?

[binjalin]

I could not care less if individuals want to kill themselves but public places should be a no-no.

[crazygreg44]

i want to see the first farang they fine 100,000 Baht for smoking or being thrown in jail for one year.

 

Normally this will be a case to carry & fight in the United Nations World Court

[JSixpack]

People splitting up cigarettes to sell individually would be liable to 40,000 baht fines too.

 

Why's that an issue? That's not smoking or littering. I've always thought that practice Third World charming in a slight way.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

What other nonsense would that be then, just because someone doesn't agree with you, it does not make it nonsense, not in a rational thinking person anyway.

What I've previously written- baseless and muddled arguments,eg, the dangers from passive smoking when outside, and confusion with discarded butts being a smoking issue whereas it is simply littering.  Then there is general over-egging.  And simply not looking at the wider picture when comparing with carnage on the roads, or environmental pollution.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Parsve said:

Why e cigs are illegal is beyond me. One would have thought that they would be welcomed for reducing the risk of lung cancer.

 

The truth is that it turned out that e-cigarettes were more harmful than regular cigarettes. 

That's absolute nonsense!  What a stupid and anti-social thing to write.

[mommysboy]

43 minutes ago, Cranky said:

Idiotic comment.  Air pollution is totally avoidable, billions being spent cleaning the atmosphere - it we all said 'eff it, it's unavoidable we'll all be dead pretty soon.  Electric, solar, wind all making massive technological strides.  Think Elon Musk just thought it's 'unavoidable'?

Idiotic comment.  That does not apply today or in the near future.  In any case it was not the point being made.  Also, safe smoking is already here in the shape of e-cigs, but wouldn't you know? ...they are banned in Thailand. 

[Parsve]

Why e cigs are illegal is beyond me. One would have thought that they would be welcomed for reducing the risk of lung cancer.

 

The truth is that it turned out that e-cigarettes were more harmful than regular cigarettes. 

That's absolute nonsense!  What a stupid and anti-social thing to write.

 

Mommyboy that is absolutely not nonsense. Several researchers have said that and that have made several countries to put a ban on e-cigarettes. Look outside your room and you will find a world that maybe surprise you.

[Parsve]

What many people in this thread do not seem to have understood is that it's totally irrelevant what you or me (or mayor in Pattaya) think about smoking. The interesting thing is the rule-wise of what they are now introducing. In order for a municipality to impose a penalty for any offense, there must be an underlying national law that tells what is meant to be punishable. There is no general prohibition on smoking outdoors in Thailand, so it cannot be prohibited in some places outdoors. The Ministry of Environment recognized this and issued a recommendation, based on the prohibition of dumping, nothing else. However, it is only a recommendation because the government is the only one that can issue laws. The Mayor of Pattaya has wrongly pulled this on to a health issue, but as said there is no ban on smoking and he can not bribe or imprison.
The hardest thing, however, is that he goes out saying that they should both fine people for a crime that is not there and, moreover, for a crime that has not been done. They should judge a person who smokes for the rubbish (the only possible law violation) before the person in question through his butt.

I asked in a previous post, what's next? Should I be sentenced for scrapping when I bring my goods from the store? I might throw the plastic bag in nature. Should I be convicted of rape? I undoubtedly have the "weapon" for that. No. Think about and think correctly.

[Cranky]

15 minutes ago, Parsve said:

What many people in this thread do not seem to have understood is that it's totally irrelevant what you or me (or mayor in Pattaya) think about smoking. The interesting thing is the rule-wise of what they are now introducing. In order for a municipality to impose a penalty for any offense, there must be an underlying national law that tells what is meant to be punishable. There is no general prohibition on smoking outdoors in Thailand, so it cannot be prohibited in some places outdoors. The Ministry of Environment recognized this and issued a recommendation, based on the prohibition of dumping, nothing else. However, it is only a recommendation because the government is the only one that can issue laws. The Mayor of Pattaya has wrongly pulled this on to a health issue, but as said there is no ban on smoking and he can not bribe or imprison.
The hardest thing, however, is that he goes out saying that they should both fine people for a crime that is not there and, moreover, for a crime that has not been done. They should judge a person who smokes for the rubbish (the only possible law violation) before the person in question through his butt.

I asked in a previous post, what's next? Should I be sentenced for scrapping when I bring my goods from the store? I might throw the plastic bag in nature. Should I be convicted of rape? I undoubtedly have the "weapon" for that. No. Think about and think correctly.

The 'Law' in Thailand is whatever the BIB says it is.  The 'Judge' is the highest ranking BIB awake and nearby at that point in time.  The crime, and verdict, is what he says it is.  The punishment shall be whatever the perp can afford or access from a nearby ATM.  If broke, off to the Monkey House and legal system 'B'.  I'll take 'A' thanks.

 

Rape charge is a bit harsh for fly-tipping, even here. 

[Parsve]

We are talking about two different things, what is right and what is reality :-)

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Parsve said:

Why e cigs are illegal is beyond me. One would have thought that they would be welcomed for reducing the risk of lung cancer.

 

The truth is that it turned out that e-cigarettes were more harmful than regular cigarettes. 

That's absolute nonsense!  What a stupid and anti-social thing to write.

 

Mommyboy that is absolutely not nonsense. Several researchers have said that and that have made several countries to put a ban on e-cigarettes. Look outside your room and you will find a world that maybe surprise you.

It is absolutely untrue regarding UK for instance, and other forward thinking countries. In the UK licences are now issued to medical grade I think.  They are non-carcinogenic.  Some stories came out but were rebuffed as dodgy science- for instance in one the liquid was burnt at an impossibly high temperature that could not possibly be inhaled.  There were also a couple of scares regarding liquids which were true. What has been written is mainly codswallop.

 

Nicotine itself can be dangerous for blood pressure and heart health in some people.

 

Rather than imply I am blinkered try doing some research.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, Parsve said:

Why e cigs are illegal is beyond me. One would have thought that they would be welcomed for reducing the risk of lung cancer.

 

The truth is that it turned out that e-cigarettes were more harmful than regular cigarettes. 

That's absolute nonsense!  What a stupid and anti-social thing to write.

 

Mommyboy that is absolutely not nonsense. Several researchers have said that and that have made several countries to put a ban on e-cigarettes. Look outside your room and you will find a world that maybe surprise you.

 

For anyone interested in the mainstream science, here is one of a number of reputable studies that all have comparable results and it appears on equally reputable websites:http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2017/02/06/new-study-comes-the-closest-yet-to-proving-that-e-cigarettes-arent-as-dangerous-as-smoking/

 

Nothing is 100% and as the researchers pointed out, the real benefit comes from quitting smoking completely.

 

But at this point, it can safely be said that it is a myth that ecigs are as, or more dangerous than cigarettes.

 

Other studies trying to prove ecigs are dangerous have all had glaring errors, eg, burning liquids at temperatures that are impossible to inhale, or using the sputum of vapers who have previously been or still are smokers.

 

Of course its an academic argument: because Thailand is one of the countries that has banned vaping!

Edited December 5, 2017 by mommysboy

[Parsve]

True Mommyboy, but it also is true that the UK is not the world or even a leader of the world it is the main part of a small Island in Europe, and some other parts in the world that they have "stolen" from the native people. True is also, just as I said, that some countries have put a ban on e-cigarettes because that some researchers have said that they are more dangerous than real cigarettes. If they have right or not I believe neither you or I can tell for sure, but the ban is still there for that reason so when I am saying that it is like that it is not nonsense. 

[lensta]

14 hours ago, Emster23 said:

More smoke and mirrors. Fortunately administration has the attention span of a quark

I think you are being very unfair...........to quarks

[mommysboy]

46 minutes ago, Parsve said:

True Mommyboy, but it also is true that the UK is not the world or even a leader of the world it is the main part of a small Island in Europe, and some other parts in the world that they have "stolen" from the native people. True is also, just as I said, that some countries have put a ban on e-cigarettes because that some researchers have said that they are more dangerous than real cigarettes. If they have right or not I believe neither you or I can tell for sure, but the ban is still there for that reason so when I am saying that it is like that it is not nonsense. 

UK is still one of the leading countries in pharmaceuticals and high tech.  FDA in USA is moving in much the same direction.  What isn't true is your assertion that ecigs have been found to be more dangerous than cigarettes.  That's just an opinion based on a handful of scare stories and a degree of the unknown since they are a relatively new phenomenon.  Used properly they can probably save millions of lives. No more of this please.

 

And of course if they were allowed in Thailand then the problem of smokers littering the beaches or elsewhere would lessen as ecigs are also clean.

 

 

[balo]

I welcome the ban , I guess only smokers will complain about this.

 

And if you think this will only last for 6 months and then back to normal , think again, it's clearly new rules every year in this country , thanks to the junta. Some rules are for the better , others are for the worse.  

 

But in this case it's thumbs up from me .  

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by balo

[Parsve]

Mommysboy,  Whether UK is a leading country in medical and/or human harmful behavior is something that may stand for you. But you misunderstand me. I have only answered a question as to why e-cigarettes are included in the ban. I have never claimed that I think it's right. On the contrary, I think that the entire ban on common cigarettes and e-cigarettes is wrong, and at that point I have not mentioned the medical effects, just the legal ones, and it is clearly breaking the norms because they are threatening to be fined, imprisonment of a person before the crime has been committed. A person who smokes at the beach, regular cigarette or e-cigarette is "prosecuted" for littering before the actual crime, to waste litter, has been carried out.

[Jim walker]

Time to bring back the death sentence 

[champers]

8 hours ago, JSixpack said:

People splitting up cigarettes to sell individually would be liable to 40,000 baht fines too.

 

Why's that an issue? That's not smoking or littering. I've always thought that practice Third World charming in a slight way.

I think; from experience when "I was a lad"; that singles tend to be bought by schoolchildren who might club together for one or a few. Of course, Thailand may be different, in which case selling singles to adults should be OK.

[hawker9000]

10 hours ago, mommysboy said:

What I've previously written- baseless and muddled arguments,eg, the dangers from passive smoking when outside, and confusion with discarded butts being a smoking issue whereas it is simply littering.  Then there is general over-egging.  And simply not looking at the wider picture when comparing with carnage on the roads, or environmental pollution.

"And simply not looking at the wider picture when comparing with carnage on the roads, or environmental pollution."

 

Wait a minute, let me think how this goes....

 

Hey, look over there!!     

 

LOL 

  

[skorp13]

They mention an all out war on smoking, i guess that only applies to outside. Nothing about smoking illegally in bars. They talk about clean air to nreathe outside and yet do nothing about the exhaust from buses, mini vans, pick up trucks, and baht buses. Looks like they aren't interested in clean air inside to enforce the smoking ban in bars, etc. Second hand smoke is ok as long as it is inhaled inside

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, farcanell said:

With a hand held device..... or a “please blow on my face” request?

No there was a device involved, but not a bag type.

[lvr181]

6 hours ago, Jim walker said:

Time to bring back the death sentence 

Smoking can be a 'death sentence'?

[Ruffian Dick]

1 minute ago, lvr181 said:

Smoking can be a 'death sentence'?

Naw, healthiest habit in the world.

[owl sees all]

Well up here away from the touristy areas the biggest concern is buffaloes and cows doing their nasties outside the designated areas. I keep a chog-chog and bucket in the pick-up for any clean up I'm called on to do.

 

If a buffalo does a poo poo in the road it gets a whack on the behind with a stick. This teaches the buffalo to keep it in until they get home when they can poo poo under the house.

 

Perhaps the two US chapies should just be given a whack on the bum. Ciggie butt violators also. 

[The Deerhunter]

21 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

I think you seems to have little grasp of how society tackles problems 

Basically the government is trying to break the habit of smoking by restricting the places it is acceptable.

Secondly smoking in shared public places leads to litter and of course the unpleasant smell of cigarette smoke.

I also think that 50,000 deaths per year is a serious problem 

 

Well that solution in the picture should please everyone.  At the public toilets the smokers outside will be able to share their smoke with the public and cause lung cancer. emphysema etc, while those inside the toilets can share their e-coli and other more deadly sewage borne diseases with all the swimmers and possibly even smoke at the same time. Pandemic multitasking in miniature.

[taipan1949]

I am not a smoker but have lived in China where every MAN that I met in five years smoked steady, I really did not see that many Thai's smoking in my 30 years there. On construction sites in Canada where I made my living, me as a non smoker was rare and lucky that smokers had their own lunchrooms so I could enjoy my food without the stink. I recently moved to the Philippines from Bang Lamung, Thailand and find very few Filippinos I encounter smoke and the nearest big city to where I live, Davao City, has had a Smoking Ordinance for quite some time so I never see anyone smoking when I am there and when you do they are congregated in small smoking "areas" like what you would find on a construction site in Canada. They do say that 86,000 Filippinos die every year from tobacco related diseases.

http://focusfeature.mb.com.ph/2017/03/19/smoke-at-your-own-risk-the-davao-city-model/

[taipan1949]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Well up here away from the touristy areas the biggest concern is buffaloes and cows doing their nasties outside the designated areas. I keep a chog-chog and bucket in the pick-up for any clean up I'm called on to do.

 

If a buffalo does a poo poo in the road it gets a whack on the behind with a stick. This teaches the buffalo to keep it in until they get home when they can poo poo under the house.

 

Perhaps the two US chapies should just be given a whack on the bum. Ciggie butt violators also. 

In Singapore it is called getting the Cane and I have heard it really deters crime and other things. Can't imagine that kind of pain??

[sharpjwe]

anyone agaist this rule is an IDIOT !

smoking kills 

Smokers LItter everyday of their lives .20 a day * 365 days *40 years =292.000 butt ends YOU have littered

100.000 baht fine is Baht 0.3 per cigarette still cheap . i would add to the fine picking up 292.000 butt ends to be quit 

Smokers may die in great pain .after the pleasure ....good for you.

 

As for the other issues they should also be dealt with in their specific forums .

so keep to the point at hand (i wanted that in capitals )