NCPO links weapons cache to usual red-shirt suspects

[baboon]

7 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

"Everyone knows the red shirts are still around and will try to cause trouble at anytime they can."

 

I see. Not everybody knows. But one has to be prepared that "the red shirts are still around and will try to cause trouble at anytime they can."

 

Everytime some of the red shirts' wrongdoing becomes obvious people fall victim to their knee jerk reflex "false flag by the government" 

Knowing the history of the red shirts I can't believe that anybody can be that naive  to still  believe in their PR
 

So are you asserting that this weapons haul was placed where it was in order to be used to disrupt an election when the time came?

[sweatalot]

11 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Not convincing. Still false flag. By the way, the yellow shirts are also still around and they are fed up with the junta too. 

You might not agree with the government  - but no way this could be a reason to sympathize with criminals like the reds

[Thailand]

7 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

You might not agree with the government  - but no way this could be a reason to sympathize with criminals like the reds

Are all reds/supporters criminals or just like every group or faction there are some bad apples?

[robblok]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

I live in junta heartland as you know. They really ought to be more worried that they are losing their support down here. A few Chinese still like them, but otherwise they are increasingly seen as a joke at best, and not a very funny one...

That is what they get for being incompetent on some fields and while they go after corruption of the PTP (something I like) they ignore their own corruption scandals (something i dislike). Latest one... police radar guns... 

 

Also they are as arrogant as any politician that was in power. Its the arrogance I disliked in the PTP and Thaksin and i see an almost complete copy of it in many of the things the junta do, i still think they did some good too however they have many failings. I think I will have to accept Thailand is not going to change anytime soon I had hoped for less corruption and arrogance. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

Are all reds/supporters criminals or just like every group or faction there are some bad apples?

I am pretty sure not all of them are criminals, but if you had seen the meeting where they were cheering when they heard about the attack on a yellow meeting in Trad (quite a few casualties there and 2 kids yes they did not know about the kids at that moment but they were cheering for an armed attack on their opponents).

I think a lot of them are far more violent than the yellows and it shows. Also the people here on the forum are constantly screaming false flag, remember the hospital bombing, was done buy a guy with red sympathies too. But everyone was saying false flag at the start.

 

Do I believe that the average somchai who supports the red is a terrorist.. no.. do i think they got more people who are violent then the yellows.. yes sure... burning of BKK arms caches, Trad attack ect.

[robblok]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Not convincing. Still false flag. By the way, the yellow shirts are also still around and they are fed up with the junta too. 

You said false flag too of the hospital bombing..  remember how that turned out.. red supporter bombing the hospital not false flag. 

[Media1]

Liars and deception amateurs. If you ever go to war you won't last a week. Best you stick to coups on peasants

[Eric Loh]

43 minutes ago, robblok said:

You said false flag too of the hospital bombing..  remember how that turned out.. red supporter bombing the hospital not false flag. 

Has the old engineer who loath the military for their regular coups being convicted? Did he confess that he is red supporter? Police even said that the bombing was similar to the type and style of the South conflicts. So what is what. You know or just play the blame game again.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Has the old engineer who loath the military for their regular coups being convicted? Did he confess that he is red supporter? Police even said that the bombing was similar to the type and style of the South conflicts. So what is what. You know or just play the blame game again.

He confessed proof is complete so stop denying it. Links with the reds are proven and confirmed it with his own confession. So it was not false flag again you can't admit to anything.

Edited December 5, 2017 by robblok

[candide]

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

He confessed proof is complete so stop denying it. Links with the reds are proven and confirmed it with his own confession. So it was not false flag again you can't admit to anything.

I checked and the guy said he hated the army because of the 2010 killings, so it can be reasonably assumed that he was a red shirt supporter.

However, this case surely does not prove that the Junta can be trusted for telling the truth as another article shows. In this article, made before the arrest if the real culprit, the Junta accused.... Ko Tee! 

https://prachatai.com/english/node/7165

 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

I checked and the guy said he hated the army because of the 2010 killings, so it can be reasonably assumed that he was a red shirt supporter.

However, this case surely does not prove that the Junta can be trusted for telling the truth as another article shows. In this article, made before the arrest if the real culprit, the Junta accused.... Ko Tee! 

https://prachatai.com/english/node/7165

 

I am not saying the army is always telling the truth, I am saying so far here on the forum people have constantly claimed false flag but so far non was proven to be false flag. I am glad you found the same article as me confirming that this guy was indeed a red supporter and that he confessed and that it was not false flag. 

 

Give me one example of a false flag action by the junta.. i mean false flag is something different then making a mistake during an investigation. 

 

 

[khunken]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

I checked and the guy said he hated the army because of the 2010 killings, so it can be reasonably assumed that he was a red shirt supporter.

However, this case surely does not prove that the Junta can be trusted for telling the truth as another article shows. In this article, made before the arrest if the real culprit, the Junta accused.... Ko Tee! 

https://prachatai.com/english/node/7165

 

Prachatai is hardly an independent site that can be used as 'evidence' for anything. I read their article and the authorities speculated (not truth or lies) that Ko Tee could be the source of the hospital bombing. Not speculation without grounds either as Ko Tee was as violent a redshirt as one could hope not to meet.

 

The police & army are speculating again about the current weapons finds and, while they may be completely wrong, they could just as easily be right. I don't think it's a false flag (the red shirt militias surely had a cache or two of weapons 'in case') as too many jumpers to conclusions seem to think. But I do think they are making a mistake in attempting to use it as an excuse to delay the general election any further.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed. 

[Eric Loh]

36 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am not saying the army is always telling the truth, I am saying so far here on the forum people have constantly claimed false flag but so far non was proven to be false flag. I am glad you found the same article as me confirming that this guy was indeed a red supporter and that he confessed and that it was not false flag. 

 

Give me one example of a false flag action by the junta.. i mean false flag is something different then making a mistake during an investigation. 

 

 

Are we reading the same article? No where stated that the old engineer who hated the military and their coups was qouted as a red shirts. Koo Tee was the usual suspect for convenience. You are really making things up today Rob.

[robblok]

16 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Are we reading the same article? No where stated that the old engineer who hated the military and their coups was qouted as a red shirts. Koo Tee was the usual suspect for convenience. You are really making things up today Rob.

Red sympathizer.. where did I say red shirt ? Kol Tee was a suspect.. but not the right thing. No where was it a false flag, now tell me give me an example of a false flag operation of the junta because that gets boring so far they have not done such a thing.

[candide]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I am not saying the army is always telling the truth, I am saying so far here on the forum people have constantly claimed false flag but so far non was proven to be false flag. I am glad you found the same article as me confirming that this guy was indeed a red supporter and that he confessed and that it was not false flag. 

 

Give me one example of a false flag action by the junta.. i mean false flag is something different then making a mistake during an investigation. 

 

 

There is no way to prove a false flag as only the Junta can investigate, but there are cases that are so improbable that they can be suspected as false flag.

Do you remember the bombing in Ko Samui in 2015, they blamed it on the reds, and when it became evident that it has been done by insurgents, they declared the insurgents had been "hired". When other bombings occured in 2016, they also tried to blame it on the reds.

Do you remenber the weapon cache in Ko Tee's house? So this guy is one of the most wanted by the Junta and has weapons hidden in his own house? My @&&!

And now they want us to believe  red shirts hide rusty weapons in a flooded field in order to do something that may prevent elections to happen! Who can believe it?

Of course one false flag is proven by another false flag! The weapons found here are said to have similar numbers as weapons found -guess where?- in Ko Tee's house!

[robblok]

Just now, candide said:

There is no way to prove a false flag as only the Junta can investigate, but there are cases that are so improbable that they can be suspected as false flag.

Do you remember the bombing in Ko Samui in 2015, they blamed it on the reds, and when it became evident that it has been done by insurgents, they declared the insurgents had been "hired". When other bombings occured in 2016, they also tried to blame it on the reds.

Do you remenber the weapon cache in Ko Tee's house? So this guy is one of the most wanted by the Junta and has weapons hidden in his own house? My @&&!

And now they want us to believe  red shirts hide rusty weapons in a flooded field in order to do something that may prevent elections to happen! Who can believe it?

Of course one false flag is proven by another false flag! The weapons found here are said to have similar numbers as weapons found -guess where?- in Ko Tee's house!

Again i think you don't know the definition of false flag. For something to be a false flag operation the army should have bombed Ko Samui in 2015 and then blame it on the reds, that is different from pointing the finger at a wrong suspect. Please keep your facts straight. 

 

I do believe the cases against Ko Tee, i lived near the places he terrorized when the yellows protested. So he is a violent man, you don't have to be bright to be violent, in general it shows low IQ if you are a violent thug. So I would not be surprised if he has weapons hidden on his own property.

But so in reply to my question... you cannot prove any false flag operations, try to mangle the definition of false flag to suit your purpose. 

 

So yes i believe this could be real if the serial numbers match to stuff from other caches.

[bangrak]

Personally, as per today, I am not 100% sure some red shirts/Shins' servants did it.

But I really don't understand how some posters here can, in all honesty, tell us they are 100% sure those were not involved at all...

...And seemingly do the exact same thing any, every time a finger is pointed at some red thugs or Shins' pawns suspected of involvement in violent acts. 

[Eric Loh]

Just how many times have the police blame domestic politics and link the bombing to the red shirts and retracted the accusation later. The Erawan Shrine bombing was blamed on Yongyut and labeled him red sympathizer. Retracted. Again the Hua HIn bombing accused 15 elderly folks and said they were a red shirt splinter group even though expert said the bombing had the hallmark of the south insurgents. Again the elderly folks were freed. I think there are more. With this kind of record, how can anyone possibly point at the red shirts every time a bombing happened or a arms cache found. We simply don’t know. 

[candide]

37 minutes ago, robblok said:

Again i think you don't know the definition of false flag. For something to be a false flag operation the army should have bombed Ko Samui in 2015 and then blame it on the reds, that is different from pointing the finger at a wrong suspect. Please keep your facts straight. 

 

I do believe the cases against Ko Tee, i lived near the places he terrorized when the yellows protested. So he is a violent man, you don't have to be bright to be violent, in general it shows low IQ if you are a violent thug. So I would not be surprised if he has weapons hidden on his own property.

But so in reply to my question... you cannot prove any false flag operations, try to mangle the definition of false flag to suit your purpose. 

 

So yes i believe this could be real if the serial numbers match to stuff from other caches.

You cannot prove anything either! We both only have hypotheses.

 

The bombing examples were not false flags, but they confirm, if needed, that the Junta cannot be trusted for telling the truth.

As for Ko Tee's house case and this one, the only proof you have are statements by the Junta, which cannot be trusted. So I can return your reply: you cannot prove that it is not a false flag, only trust the Junta.

You also don't have any rationale to explain it is not, while there are some to support the false flag hypothesis

(1) Ko Tee's house

- rationale for Ko Tee: for what reason would Ko Tee store weapons in his house, knowing he was in the radar?

- rationale for the Junta: they could not get him extradited for LM, so they hoped to get him extradited for charges of terrorism (which are usually more widely recognised by foreign governments)

(2) this case

- rationale for red shirts:  a) why would they store rusty weapons in a flooded field if they want to do a terrorist attack (if you want to use weapon, they need to work and why would they  want to do a terrorist attack before elections (the most likely impact of it being elections to be postponed)

- rationale for the Junta: they use it as an excuse to postpone lifting the ban on political activities, and probably to postpone elections

 

In the absence of trustable source, if prefer to chose the most rational hypotheses.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, candide said:

You cannot prove anything either! We both only have hypotheses.

 

The bombing examples were not false flags, but they confirm, if needed, that the Junta cannot be trusted for telling the truth.

As for Ko Tee's house case and this one, the only proof you have are statements by the Junta, which cannot be trusted. So I can return your reply: you cannot prove that it is not a false flag, only trust the Junta.

You also don't have any rationale to explain it is not, while there are some to support the false flag hypothesis

(1) Ko Tee's house

- rationale for Ko Tee: for what reason would Ko Tee store weapons in his house, knowing he was in the radar?

- rationale for the Junta: they could not get him extradited for LM, so they hoped to get him extradited for charges of terrorism (which are usually more widely recognised by foreign governments)

(2) this case

- rationale for red shirts:  a) why would they store rusty weapons in a flooded field if they want to do a terrorist attack (if you want to use weapon, they need to work and why would they  want to do a terrorist attack before elections (the most likely impact of it being elections to be postponed)

- rationale for the Junta: they use it as an excuse to postpone lifting the ban on political activities, and probably to postpone elections

 

In the absence of trustable source, if prefer to chose the most rational hypotheses.

The bombing examples prove there were no false flag operations just assumptions of the junta that later proved to be false and they never made up evidence in those cases otherwise they could have fingered the reds. So no proof that the junta ever purposely set up or made up evidence. So I think its fair to assume that these finds were also not a setup or real false flag operation. These finds were real.. now who is the most likely suspect the reads.. Ocam's razor. 

 

Your theory only holds water if the junta planted evidence and given the past history there is no proof of them ever doing so.. they only wished that certain bombings were done by certain parties never planted evidence. 

 

Your theories are base on the junta now all of a sudden planting evidence... that is not the most rational hypothese given the past patterns. It is just something you want to believe. You are now assuming real false flag operation with planted evidence because the southern rebels never operated here. So all of a sudden the junta shifted from not planting evidence to planting evidence. That is not logical.

 

Why the redshirts.. they just hid the stuff maybe even abandoned it and the field flooded. Sounds far more plausible then the junta now all of a sudden fabricating evidence.

 

I don't think this is a good reason to postpone the election for this like you I don't think the red shirts were planting any bombings, i think it was just abandoned material. 

 

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Just how many times have the police blame domestic politics and link the bombing to the red shirts and retracted the accusation later. The Erawan Shrine bombing was blamed on Yongyut and labeled him red sympathizer. Retracted. Again the Hua HIn bombing accused 15 elderly folks and said they were a red shirt splinter group even though expert said the bombing had the hallmark of the south insurgents. Again the elderly folks were freed. I think there are more. With this kind of record, how can anyone possibly point at the red shirts every time a bombing happened or a arms cache found. We simply don’t know. 

Yes the junta has done that a few times but that is different from really planting evidence. Its also a fact that once the evidence mounted the junta always went after the real suspects

[khunken]

1 hour ago, candide said:

You cannot prove anything either! We both only have hypotheses.

 

The bombing examples were not false flags, but they confirm, if needed, that the Junta cannot be trusted for telling the truth.

As for Ko Tee's house case and this one, the only proof you have are statements by the Junta, which cannot be trusted. So I can return your reply: you cannot prove that it is not a false flag, only trust the Junta.

You also don't have any rationale to explain it is not, while there are some to support the false flag hypothesis

(1) Ko Tee's house

- rationale for Ko Tee: for what reason would Ko Tee store weapons in his house, knowing he was in the radar?

- rationale for the Junta: they could not get him extradited for LM, so they hoped to get him extradited for charges of terrorism (which are usually more widely recognised by foreign governments)

(2) this case

- rationale for red shirts:  a) why would they store rusty weapons in a flooded field if they want to do a terrorist attack (if you want to use weapon, they need to work and why would they  want to do a terrorist attack before elections (the most likely impact of it being elections to be postponed)

- rationale for the Junta: they use it as an excuse to postpone lifting the ban on political activities, and probably to postpone elections

 

In the absence of trustable source, if prefer to chose the most rational hypotheses.

None of what you say is rational - rather a distortion of events to confirm your Junta hatred.

The Junta has no record of planting weapons (a real false flag) but it does have a habit of speculating on those responsible for various attacks and have been proved wrong. But that is not a false flag - just speculation as I said in an earlier post.

Regarding Ko Tee's house - it is far more credible to believe that a serial user of weapons has them on hand than the reverse.

 

Storing weapons in a field could have many reasons and the discovery of a large cache in Ko Tee's house would quite likely get other militias (or even Ko Tee's militia) to move them from a house to a less easily raided place and not implicate the householder. They could just as easily have got rid of them having been warned of an impending raid.

 

No one knows if the weapons were to be used before elections or afterwards - that's just more speculation.

 

I have already said that it is wrong to use these finds as an excuse to postpone or delay elections. They really don't need excuses like this as they have the power to delay elections for a variety of other reasons anyway.

[Eric Loh]

16 minutes ago, khunken said:

does have a habit of speculating on those responsible for various attacks and have been proved wrong.

A habit is repeating something subconsciously. This is no habit. Its a conscious coordinated junta plan to target the red shirts for every violence to justify the coup and delay election. 

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

A habit is repeating something subconsciously. This is no habit. Its a conscious coordinated junta plan to target the red shirts for every violence to justify the coup and delay election. 

Yes but it still different from planting evidence.. that has never been the case.. so we can safely assume the find was real and the most likely suspects in that area are the redshirts.

 

That does not prove however that they were planning on using them now (seems unlikely) but seems quite likely they found a red shirt arms cache that could be used in the future or whenever they wanted. No reason IMHO to delay the elections. 

[Cadbury]

Some memories flood back. I was there and purchased the clacker and the hat and the T-shirt. I sat and watched the big show when Thaksin came on the big screen and stirred them all up and then later they set fire to some buildings. I scarpered.

[candide]

The Junta has no record of planting is not an argument because no one is allowed to investigate it. For the same reason, the Junta has no record of being corrupt.

On the other hand they have a record to be able to do anything they can against red shirts without much ethical consideration.

False flag is only an hypothesis but is one that makes sense.

[khunken]

25 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

A habit is repeating something subconsciously. This is no habit. Its a conscious coordinated junta plan to target the red shirts for every violence to justify the coup and delay election. 

A habit can be both repeated consciously & subconsciously. So, yes, it is a Junta habit to speculate on the culprits. It may be used to delay the election - neither you nor I are fortune tellers although I'm only certain about myself.

The redshirt violence before the coup was very real and IMO did justify the coup and particularly the dismantling of the CAPO & their lies & support for the violence. 

[candide]

1 hour ago, khunken said:

Storing weapons in a field could have many reasons and the discovery of a large cache in Ko Tee's house would quite likely get other militias (or even Ko Tee's militia) to move them from a house to a less easily raided place and not implicate the householder. They could just as easily have got rid of them having been warned of an impending raid.

And after people started to comment that a terrorist attack with rusty weapons would not be realistic, they suddenly found another cache nearby with weapons in good condition!

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Cadbury said:

Some memories flood back. I was there and purchased the clacker and the hat and the T-shirt. I sat and watched the big show when Thaksin came on the big screen and stirred them all up and then later they set fire to some buildings. I scarpered.

It was a long time ago and perhaps memories may have fail you. Thaksin spoke via satellite in March and the burning was in May. Not sure why you need to scarpered.