Bought 12 Cows have limited knowledge

[New Cowboy]

Hi...... As well as all the great advice on feeding etc  I was hoping to pick up some information on where to buy

cows and where to sell  by weight after fattening... I am limited at this time to just 1 place near Surin to sell and or

someone visiting  our small farm offering to buy by eye not weight...  Any advice on this would be most welcome..

Thanks Joe

[thoongfoned]

buying is always  more easy then selling, from what i have experienced, in most things dont you find? 

you said that the feed seller would buy back the animals if finished with their feed? look at other feed shops/mills ect.. try and get to know the owners/money people... look at how much they would give you.  father in law must have some idea, ie market places, near/far. local middle men who buy/sell.  word of mouth kind of thing in your amper.....

failing that "just" slaughter and sell the meat yourselfs, better margins.... approach the local mum/dad type stores and see if they would buy X kg at X amount baht? stalls in busy market places? at the end of the day someone will have to go out and find these contacts to make the business work, contacts. contacts, it all takes time, dont be in a hurry, if you have enough time/money and people get to know you, people will come to you but of course this again will take time. time = money / feeding/ looking after the animals.  try and do as much work yourselfs, dont pay a monthly wage to outside people, what can not be done to day will still be there tomorrow..ect....

the wifes knows a lady locally that breeds some sort of cattle that fetch crazy money, have humps, very large, i dont know about cattle 5555. but she does well, been doing it many years, knows people, nevere sells low money, never buys expensive......

when we had some cattle the wifes father did the lot, looked after fed/watered, never bought any feed in or spent out on meds, the only outgoing was some money for the mating. he built the shed from odds and sods that was around. made money cos had the original female for 8 plus years, bought her for 5,000 baht pregnant, few years later same animals had gone up to 15,000 ish baht, just inflation.. lucky, but only made money because he kept breeding her and than the new animals ect...  used to slaughter in the village then sell at 500, 1000 baht bits. sometimes father inlaw would sell an animal to random people that just stopped him on the road, but when we wanted to sell. like this week/ now the price offered was always very low....

 

[kickstart]

21 hours ago, New Cowboy said:

Hi Kickstart....Thanks for taking the time to give your valued advice....  I would like to point out that the pic of cows is from September when we first bought. They are much bigger now.

Just to recalculate I think 500kg cows will work out to about 55000bht at 110 per kilo.....  As you rightly say, my estimated feed costs per head are around 80 bht per day. I will be investigating further the other feed advice kindly given to me by other members...

Looking  yesterday ,this morning ,the penny droped , the Thai way of buying and selling cattle .that photograph, you had just bought the cattle ,at prices from 18-25 000 baht /head ,that price is allso 110-120 baht /kg  the weight of the cattle  would be 300 kg  one or two might make 350 kg, so say 120 baht/kg @300 kg  that would be, 36 000 baht , which you did not pay ,but as I said the Thai way is, you take off  50-55 % for K O %, which  is killing out % what you  have left in the meat , once the head, hide, bones  ect are taken out.

So , the cost of 1 animal would be about 18-20 000 baht, which is what you paid, for some of your cattle.

I use this system when some farmers have asked me what this cull cow is worth ,not  normally far out .

Also the Thai way,is a  one pricing system  for all class of stock ,that would be for cull cows and fat beef  cattle , and the bags of bones you see grazing beside the roads ,( now about 80-90 baht/kg), now as you say,  the price is  110 baht/kg , making it a bearly viable proposition, to produce good quality beef here in Thailand ,they are some outlets that will buy quality beef, but not easy to find,one near me ,but he will still only pay no more than 20 baht/kg above market price .

So,your estimate of 500 kg , bull selling for 55 000 could be way out .

Or look at this way, our local market sells beef from 220-250 baht/kg ,a beef bull weighing say 450 kg ,on the hoof ,then take off 50% KO%  that would give you , 225 kg of salable meat ,that would be about 50 000 baht ,by the  time it has gone from the hoof to your local market ,it would have passed through a few hands ,and everyone wants they cut ..

 

 

[thoongfoned]

it has  to be said that kickstart is the man!

on selling /buying try facebook..... i bet there is a page for your province/area that covers cattle, it will be in thai so if you cannot read thai, like me,  get the wife to have a look and join in the facebook "fun"..

over the past month we have managed to sell some pups via some page or other, our 2 main whole sale buyers were not interested this time... selling on there meant that we nearly doubled our selling price....

[New Cowboy]

4 hours ago, kickstart said:

Looking  yesterday ,this morning ,the penny droped , the Thai way of buying and selling cattle .that photograph, you had just bought the cattle ,at prices from 18-25 000 baht /head ,that price is allso 110-120 baht /kg  the weight of the cattle  would be 300 kg  one or two might make 350 kg, so say 120 baht/kg @300 kg  that would be, 36 000 baht , which you did not pay ,but as I said the Thai way is, you take off  50-55 % for K O %, which  is killing out % what you  have left in the meat , once the head, hide, bones  ect are taken out.

So , the cost of 1 animal would be about 18-20 000 baht, which is what you paid, for some of your cattle.

I use this system when some farmers have asked me what this cull cow is worth ,not  normally far out .

Also the Thai way,is a  one pricing system  for all class of stock ,that would be for cull cows and fat beef  cattle , and the bags of bones you see grazing beside the roads ,( now about 80-90 baht/kg), now as you say,  the price is  110 baht/kg , making it a bearly viable proposition, to produce good quality beef here in Thailand ,they are some outlets that will buy quality beef, but not easy to find,one near me ,but he will still only pay no more than 20 baht/kg above market price .

So,your estimate of 500 kg , bull selling for 55 000 could be way out .

Or look at this way, our local market sells beef from 220-250 baht/kg ,a beef bull weighing say 450 kg ,on the hoof ,then take off 50% KO%  that would give you , 225 kg of salable meat ,that would be about 50 000 baht ,by the  time it has gone from the hoof to your local market ,it would have passed through a few hands ,and everyone wants they cut ..

 

 

Hi Kickstart.....  well I cannot doubt your knowledge or experience and also Thoongfoned say's "Your the Man"  so that is great to know that I am getting good advice....But,,, I am a bit daft maybe so perhaps you can advise on my confusion with your pricing manner/suggestion over my personal experience of cow selling,,,>>>Here goes,,,

I visited the Feed Company premises up near Surin, last May.. They sell feed and buy your cows if you buy their feed... I saw a que of 5 or 6 vehicles with cows on the back..  Mostly 1 cow per vehicle(local farmers). They drove onto a weighbridge with cow, weighed, drove off, then returned after unloading cow to get weighed again.... I followed the full process of 2 vehicles.... including discussion with the driver/owner of the cows. Guy 1 cow weighed 630kg and he showed me the slip just given by the company. It was basically a receipt for a 630kg cow that they were paying 110bht per kg for. Total 69300bht.

The money was to be transferred by the company direct to the cow owners bank.(that is the only way they pay)within a few days.. Same routine for second guy,   572kg at 110bht per kg = 62920bht.......   These were live cows still eating and crapping... The guys were just selling because they wanted money and they thought the cows were not going to get any bigger...... 

So unless my maths is wrong it seems like I should expect a similar kg price(subject to current market price).... Which would suggest that if my cows reach 500kgs(which we feel is slightly low) I should expect 55,000bht...... Against my (Avg)purchase cost of say 22000bht. (bought by eye not by weight).... minus feeding cost  estimated at 10-12000 bht... (over 5 months). minus Transportation of 500bht each way.. plus say 4000bht labour per cow.... the rest is up to Buddha as my family say..... So very roughly I calculate 40000bht out over 5 months with a return of 60000bht(avg 550kg) after 5 months ,,,per cow.....  (subject to calamities)... (That is what I am basing  the costings, investment and projections on)

I hope you can advise on my confusion with your suggestion that I could be way out on expecting 55000 for 500kg cow...

Am I missing something big or obvious in between.....(basically by being a daft farang from the city)....

Thanks for your time and responses so far Kickstart.... 

Hopefully you will avoid any exasperation with my city simpleness/understanding  and guide me accordingly if you have the time...

Many Thanks.... Joe 

 

 

[New Cowboy]

2 hours ago, thoongfoned said:

it has  to be said that kickstart is the man!

on selling /buying try facebook..... i bet there is a page for your province/area that covers cattle, it will be in thai so if you cannot read thai, like me,  get the wife to have a look and join in the facebook "fun"..

over the past month we have managed to sell some pups via some page or other, our 2 main whole sale buyers were not interested this time... selling on there meant that we nearly doubled our selling price....

Hey Thoonfoned....   That is a great idea, I will check it out on facebook in Thai... I have been trawling the net for this information without getting anywhere.

I guess farmers don't use websites too much in Thailand......  but facebook that is a different story as many of their kids/relatives will probably be on facebook..... Lets see what I can find....  Thanks, your tip is much appreciated....Joe

[farmerjo]

Personally i would take one out of your system now to the buyer and find out exactly what it's worth to sell and whether he would be able to cater for the rest as they grow out at the same time.

For piece of mind for you and me.It may be possible if your cutting out a few middlemen in the process.

Let us know how you get on.

My wife just told me in our village we are paying 360baht/kilo from local butcher shop.

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by farmerjo

[New Cowboy]

10 hours ago, thoongfoned said:

buying is always  more easy then selling, from what i have experienced, in most things dont you find? 

you said that the feed seller would buy back the animals if finished with their feed? look at other feed shops/mills ect.. try and get to know the owners/money people... look at how much they would give you.  father in law must have some idea, ie market places, near/far. local middle men who buy/sell.  word of mouth kind of thing in your amper.....

failing that "just" slaughter and sell the meat yourselfs, better margins.... approach the local mum/dad type stores and see if they would buy X kg at X amount baht? stalls in busy market places? at the end of the day someone will have to go out and find these contacts to make the business work, contacts. contacts, it all takes time, dont be in a hurry, if you have enough time/money and people get to know you, people will come to you but of course this again will take time. time = money / feeding/ looking after the animals.  try and do as much work yourselfs, dont pay a monthly wage to outside people, what can not be done to day will still be there tomorrow..ect....

the wifes knows a lady locally that breeds some sort of cattle that fetch crazy money, have humps, very large, i dont know about cattle 5555. but she does well, been doing it many years, knows people, nevere sells low money, never buys expensive......

when we had some cattle the wifes father did the lot, looked after fed/watered, never bought any feed in or spent out on meds, the only outgoing was some money for the mating. he built the shed from odds and sods that was around. made money cos had the original female for 8 plus years, bought her for 5,000 baht pregnant, few years later same animals had gone up to 15,000 ish baht, just inflation.. lucky, but only made money because he kept breeding her and than the new animals ect...  used to slaughter in the village then sell at 500, 1000 baht bits. sometimes father inlaw would sell an animal to random people that just stopped him on the road, but when we wanted to sell. like this week/ now the price offered was always very low....

 

Hi Thoongfoned.... That is really interesting reading for me and makes great sense... It is obvious that time served experience is the best way to make  it all  work out.... Yes, I need to spend more time in the zone to understand how best and who best to work with... Not sure about the butchering thing as I am a bit unaccustomed to slaughter of living things and would prefer to remain 1step away from that. My FiL, no problem to chop one up but it's  not for me..

However, it is something I can explore later if necessary(or out of site, especially from my kids..they've given some pet names. ).

I was given the suggestion of special breed cows like Kobe, I feel that is a good idea but I need to find the outlet market first... (I understand Kobe cows drink beer and listen to music.. Seems Saturday night in the cow shed wouldn't be too bad.. but I guess it will all be on my tab...lol..)

Like you say it is always seems easier to buy than sell,,, Fortunately we are not under so much pressure to sell and  I will take yours and other posters advice to take it easy and walk before I run....  I will concentrate on good feed and good contacts....

Your advice is appreciated.... Many Thanks   Joe...

[CLW]

Hi Thoongfoned.... That is really interesting reading for me and makes great sense... It is obvious that time served experience is the best way to make  it all  work out.... Yes, I need to spend more time in the zone to understand how best and who best to work with... Not sure about the butchering thing as I am a bit unaccustomed to slaughter of living things and would prefer to remain 1step away from that. My FiL, no problem to chop one up but it's  not for me..
However, it is something I can explore later if necessary(or out of site, especially from my kids..they've given some pet names. ).
I was given the suggestion of special breed cows like Kobe, I feel that is a good idea but I need to find the outlet market first... (I understand Kobe cows drink beer and listen to music.. Seems Saturday night in the cow shed wouldn't be too bad.. but I guess it will all be on my tab...lol..)
Like you say it is always seems easier to buy than sell,,, Fortunately we are not under so much pressure to sell and  I will take yours and other posters advice to take it easy and walk before I run....  I will concentrate on good feed and good contacts....
Your advice is appreciated.... Many Thanks   Joe...

Sure you can cross in some wagyu (Kobe is just a geographical area) but for that you need some mother cows.
And with the genetics it is long not sure you have some marbling in your meat.
Many other factors involved such as feed etc.
Once you have them ready, find a buyer who is paying a premium price for your cattle.
Much in Thailand is unfortunately about the price not quality

[thoongfoned]

ok my 2 cents worth on price....

around us the fresh kill beef will be priced from 320-370 per kg depending.... has been this way from a while, maybe 2 ish years. always sells out early in the day, even though i would think it is expensive. supermarket, macro ect. would start from 250 ish baht....

so you say the feed shop guy will pay around the 110 baht per live kg, so thats about one third of retail shop price direct to you, saving time and all that messing about with middle guys. sounds about right. good deal for you and him.

the feed shop guy will get paid out twice from buying your animals, firstly by selling you the feed then secoundly by selling said animal on or slaughter themselves and making even more.  selling volume on feed will be the guys main thing and the good quilty meat/animal will just be the iceing on the cake, so to speak.

i have some understanding or similar experinece but with the pigs, the buyers will usually end up paying a third of the retail price on shop fed  animals, and less for the rice husks type of pigs.

just my take.

[thoongfoned]

with cows they must drink loads of water in a day? just guessing... if they do try and make the water suply clean and plentyfull, maybe add some EM to the water tanks and get some good gut health going, would/could help with growing out stats????  forum member: isaanaussie i would imagine could help or advise on this type of thing... or maybe google.... 

i would say dont under estimate the importance of good clean water for animals.... again just some thoughts.

all the best,

[grollies]

11 minutes ago, thoongfoned said:

with cows they must drink loads of water in a day? just guessing... if they do try and make the water suply clean and plentyfull, maybe add some EM to the water tanks and get some good gut health going, would/could help with growing out stats????  forum member: isaanaussie i would imagine could help or advise on this type of thing... or maybe google.... 

i would say dont under estimate the importance of good clean water for animals.... again just some thoughts.

all the best,

You are right about water supply. According to IME it takes 15,415 litres to produce 1 kg of beef.

 

I remember our General talking about how Sa Kaeo was struggling to grow rice due to there being no major rivers in the province and not enough water. Their solution, I kid you not, was to make Sa Kaeo the beef capitol of Thailand.

 

From the same source, it takes 2,497 litres of water to produce 1 kg of rice.

[EVENKEEL]

20 minutes ago, thoongfoned said:

with cows they must drink loads of water in a day? just guessing... if they do try and make the water suply clean and plentyfull, maybe add some EM to the water tanks and get some good gut health going, would/could help with growing out stats????  forum member: isaanaussie i would imagine could help or advise on this type of thing... or maybe google.... 

i would say dont under estimate the importance of good clean water for animals.... again just some thoughts.

all the best,

I see cattle drinking water wherever they free range during the day. Liver flukes are a big concern because of drinking standing water.

[steven100]

11 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I see cattle drinking water wherever they free range during the day. Liver flukes are a big concern because of drinking standing water.

correct ..  you have to drench them every 6-12 months and also give them a tick dip (  small dose of tick kill on their backs )  at the same time.

If you don't do this they will end up sick and never fatten correctly.

[farmerjo]

.Back to price,looking at the australian market indicator,bulls are selling for around 70 baht/kilo to 450kg's.

So your 500kg bull would be 35,000 baht or as KS says in Thai 500kg's at your 110 baht minus half is 27,500 baht.

Unless someone has sold lately and can verify price.

[kickstart]

New cowboy 

                     I am not disputing your budget  figures  they look , on paper ok ,it is your buyer I cannot understand buying a 630 kg beef bull for 69000 baht ,I said this to my misses ,and she looked a bit dumbfounded , also paying the money in to the bank, something new for me  around here all cash .

A dairy farmer near me had a Friesian bull , that was a big animal, weighed 600 kg , the owner said he was worth 60 000 baht, not certain if that was for beef or breeding value, so these prices are out there..

Also you are in Issan ,I am in the central plains, Lopburi, things are done differently, like sugar cane you have weigh stations ,we do not,and as farmer jo ,and just now thoongfoned said, you all so  have expensive beef  on your local market our price of 220-250baht/kg has ao ls been that 2 years now. 

Your buyer paying 69000 for 1 animal , and your local market price of  320-370 kg , all in perpective, compaed to us But  where does this  buyer sell his cattle?, how does he make his money ?does have his own market stalls all over Issan selling beef , ? does his own slughtering,and dressing ,no middal man ?, other outlets ?,is he a middal man and sells on ? and how long has he been trading ,if he has been going for some years ,ok ,but a new guy bewear?,here to day........,agine as toongfoned said , this is Thailnd, and I would say they would have a face book page ,could be worth a look.  I am intreaged,at this one.

 A beef bull weighing 550 -650 kg ,is a big animale, we have very few like that  around here ,also to get to that weight ,a lot depending on breed ,that animal would be about 3 -4 yers old ,if that was your own stock ,a long time to get your money back ,what would the cost of feed be.

If you kept your beef bulls for another year plus ,you could them up to that weight, again at what cost.

Wagyu cattle, this has come up before on TV ,3 years ?ago they was a thread on the subject ,try TV history.

I found an artticl in a Thia farming mag once ,it was a co-op in Korat  which you had to be a member of ,and thay where very fussy ,had to have the right doner cows ,Kampangpet/Tark breeds, all Charaloies x  Brahaman ,I think thay provided the Wagya semen ,and then brought back the cattle ,sold them though the co-op ,thay came and inpected  your cattle ,thay had a lot of say ,but with the price the beef sells for , and the spealalised  market ;it would be the only to go.

Doing it yourself would be very difficult, you would struggle to find the markets.

CLW

       You asked about TMR ,that is , where all the cows feed is put in to a mixer wagon  and feed to the cows in the cattle shed ,no concentrate is feed in the milking parlour ,it has been a Thai thing for some years now ,DPO at Mortlec ,Saraburi, The milk producing arm of the Thai -Denmark milk company ,thay have a lot of cows .are on a TMR system .

With a mixer wagon costing, 70 000 baht plus ,most are now made in Thailand ,you would need to milk at least 70 cows plus ,a big dairy herd for Thailand ,and the farm management has to be good to make it work ,espeally for the freshly calved cows ,that need the extra feed ,that a TMR system here in Thailand can not provide ,diet short of  energy , if they are to perform to there potential, and to make some money.

Farm near me is on a TMR  sytem  for him it does not work ,

a

[CLW]

New cowboy 
                     I am not disputing your budget  figures  they look , on paper ok ,it is your buyer I cannot understand buying a 630 kg beef bull for 69000 baht ,I said this to my misses ,and she looked a bit dumbfounded , also paying the money in to the bank, something new for me  around here all cash .
A dairy farmer near me had a Friesian bull , that was a big animal, weighed 600 kg , the owner said he was worth 60 000 baht, not certain if that was for beef or breeding value, so these prices are out there..
Also you are in Issan ,I am in the central plains, Lopburi, things are done differently, like sugar cane you have weigh stations ,we do not,and as farmer jo ,and just now thoongfoned said, you all so  have expensive beef  on your local market our price of 220-250baht/kg has ao ls been that 2 years now. 
Your buyer paying 69000 for 1 animal , and your local market price of  320-370 kg , all in perpective, compaed to us But  where does this  buyer sell his cattle?, how does he make his money ?does have his own market stalls all over Issan selling beef , ? does his own slughtering,and dressing ,no middal man ?, other outlets ?,is he a middal man and sells on ? and how long has he been trading ,if he has been going for some years ,ok ,but a new guy bewear?,here to day........,agine as toongfoned said , this is Thailnd, and I would say they would have a face book page ,could be worth a look.  I am intreaged,at this one.
 A beef bull weighing 550 -650 kg ,is a big animale, we have very few like that  around here ,also to get to that weight ,a lot depending on breed ,that animal would be about 3 -4 yers old ,if that was your own stock ,a long time to get your money back ,what would the cost of feed be.
If you kept your beef bulls for another year plus ,you could them up to that weight, again at what cost.
Wagyu cattle, this has come up before on TV ,3 years ?ago they was a thread on the subject ,try TV history.
I found an artticl in a Thia farming mag once ,it was a co-op in Korat  which you had to be a member of ,and thay where very fussy ,had to have the right doner cows ,Kampangpet/Tark breeds, all Charaloies x  Brahaman ,I think thay provided the Wagya semen ,and then brought back the cattle ,sold them though the co-op ,thay came and inpected  your cattle ,thay had a lot of say ,but with the price the beef sells for , and the spealalised  market ;it would be the only to go.
Doing it yourself would be very difficult, you would struggle to find the markets.
CLW
       You asked about TMR ,that is , where all the cows feed is put in to a mixer wagon  and feed to the cows in the cattle shed ,no concentrate is feed in the milking parlour ,it has been a Thai thing for some years now ,DPO at Mortlec ,Saraburi, The milk producing arm of the Thai -Denmark milk company ,thay have a lot of cows .are on a TMR system .
With a mixer wagon costing, 70 000 baht plus ,most are now made in Thailand ,you would need to milk at least 70 cows plus ,a big dairy herd for Thailand ,and the farm management has to be good to make it work ,espeally for the freshly calved cows ,that need the extra feed ,that a TMR system here in Thailand can not provide ,diet short of  energy , if they are to perform to there potential, and to make some money.
Farm near me is on a TMR  sytem  for him it does not work ,
a

KS, about the TMR.
What I understand so far is that you could also mix concentrate in the mix.
I was thinking more of it to make work easier. From a certain number of cows (your example 70 heads) it's a lot of work to feed them if you do this manually by cart.
With the mixer wagon you throw in everything, let it mix for a while and then drive past your cows to deliver the feed.
Of course it's about investment cost first and if you could make a return after a few years.
Another positive effect what I've just heard (no actual experience) is that with the mixed feed the cows will eat some kind of not so delicious feed that they would leave if not mixed together.

About the wagyu crossbreed
On another thread here on TV I stumbled upon this website pornchaiinter.com or something. They seem to have semen of wagyu and other breeds. But I guess you can only buy there and have to do everything else by yourself

[kickstart]

CLW

      Re. TMR here in Thailand concentrat is added to the feed mix ,and none is feed dueing milking time ,as feeding cows  in the cow shead can take up a lot of time ,so not feeding any concentrat will  speed up milking time considerably,farm near near me with TMR ,allso has a  heringbone  milking palour a 24-12,12 milking machins with a capacity of 24 cows ,12 cow each side of the palour ,I was they one afternoon ,and helped out the two  Bumeas  workers for 1/2 hour ,and we soon milked a high percentage  of the herd ,ok some cows where only giveing 3-4 kg of milk ,if those cows had to be feed as well it would have put on at least 50% more on milking time,and probaly another 40% in buillding costs ,in building the milking parlour ,by having to put in feed trough's. 

I said before  that in Thailand cows do not preform well on TMR,when a cow calves for the first ,up 90 days she has a light/low  Appetite it  is a natral thing ,the problem is she will lose body weight as well ,and needs feeding a high enagey diet,you need to prevent this  happening ,so your cow is in a shed with other cows,the feed is put down ,the other cows that have been calved a long time and have no problems,( or cows giving up to 20 kg of milk a day, your freshly calved cows ,in the same shed as a cow giving 6 kg a day ,beend calved a long time ,back in calf about to be dryed off )  that 6 kg a day cow ,will eat all the best feed in the mix and in no time ,and your freshly calved cow,20 kg of milk /day that needs the feed will just not have enough feed ,,she will lose weight even more quickly ,which then  will lead her to haveing an infertility problem , allreadry a big problm in Thailand ,about the bigest problem in the Thai dairy industry,and she could develop ketosis,blood sugers drop in the blood ,and she will go off her feed .

How do solve the problem, 2 ways , split the herd up , freshly calved cows ,and cows  calved up to 100 days (,cows calved after 100 days milk yeild drops,she has  gone past peak lactation, normaly  at 90 100 days),put them in a shed of they own ,and the rest of the herd in the other half of the shed ,you could mix up 2 rations ,in the feed box ,one special mix for the freshly calved cows ,and one for the rest ,a lot of hasal ,try to get the quanaties right , time-consuming mixing up two rations ,or feed one ration ,to the herd ,then feed a suplerment to your freshly calved cows.,with some high enaggy  feed say , a kg of soay bean meal ,and may  be  a kg of  ground maize meal.

As for mixing a feed not so palatable in the mixer wagon ,and hoping the cows will eat it ,well yes and no ,cows are buggers ,they will stand they and pick out all the good bit of a feed,  leaving all the not so palatable feeds ,but some cows will eat all that is put in front of them good or bad , our few cattle if I mix some not so good grass silage ,with some good silage, thay will pick out the good and leave some of the not so good silsge .

As for Pornchie .co selling semen they are down in Ratchaburi ,I got they card from the last Thai dairy show at Mortlec , and thay have advertised in Thai farming magazines, and thay do have semen from a lot of breeds.

As for there web sight ,I typed Pornchie ,and ,er, it took me to a porn website,not the type of breeding I was looking for ,but I do have a phone number for then. 

   

[grollies]

With the amount of sugar cane grown here do you beef guys not feed molasses, grain and forage like sugar can tops?

[kickstart]

19 minutes ago, grollies said:

With the amount of sugar cane grown here do you beef guys not feed molasses, grain and forage like sugar can tops?

 

Molasses is a good feed cattle like it , but it is only 4% protein , and a low dry matter , and around here 7-8 baht/kg .for what it is, an expensive feed.

Grain I take it you mean maize, it is mixed with most concentrates ,a good high energy feed, but at about 10 baht/kg for ground maize , an expensive feed to feed on its own , some dairy farmers will feed some as a supplement to they cows.

Sugar cane tops a poor feed about 2% protein , been tryed ,it is baled first ,cows  would only eat a small amount waist the rest ,rice straw is still a bad forage feed ,but still better than sugarcane tops.

Beef cattle would have the same problem would not grow .probaly lose weight.

[tifino]

 

we used to feed Mollasses to cows, but just as a 'medicine' , as required, to help them recover from Bloat' 

[grollies]

21 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Molasses is a good feed cattle like it , but it is only 4% protein , and a low dry matter , and around here 7-8 baht/kg .for what it is, an expensive feed.

Grain I take it you mean maize, it is mixed with most concentrates ,a good high energy feed, but at about 10 baht/kg for ground maize , an expensive feed to feed on its own , some dairy farmers will feed some as a supplement to they cows.

Sugar cane tops a poor feed about 2% protein , been tryed ,it is baled first ,cows  would only eat a small amount waist the rest ,rice straw is still a bad forage feed ,but still better than sugarcane tops.

Beef cattle would have the same problem would not grow .probaly lose weight.

Thanks for the info.

[grollies]

19 minutes ago, tifino said:

 

we used to feed Mollasses to cows, but just as a 'medicine' , as required, to help them recover from Bloat' 

I thought molasess was a cause of bloat. We used to restrict amounts to around 10%.

[kickstart]

4 minutes ago, grollies said:

I thought molasess was a cause of bloat. We used to restrict amounts to around 10%.

Too much molasses will cause an animal to scour  . 

[kickstart]

8 hours ago, farmerjo said:

.Back to price,looking at the australian market indicator,bulls are selling for around 70 baht/kilo to 450kg's.

So your 500kg bull would be 35,000 baht or as KS says in Thai 500kg's at your 110 baht minus half is 27,500 baht.

Unless someone has sold lately and can verify price.

A look at uk markets heavy cattle live weight, depending on where you are 70-96 baht/Kg .

 Dead weight cattle, the UK has a tiered pricing system depending on quality,about 150 baht/kg.  ,about 16 different grades for dead weight cattle, with a price structure accordingly,a bit different from Thailand's er, 1 price . 

[farmerjo]

1 hour ago, grollies said:

With the amount of sugar cane grown here do you beef guys not feed molasses, grain and forage like sugar can tops?

I used to give a lick of molasses every morning as in the early days we would walk them in open fields.

Later on the farm it was a great training tool to tap on the drum at the end of the day to get them to return to the shed. 

[Slugs11]

http://www.pornchaiinter.com/index1.html

 

Here is the web site for pornchaiinter, we have used them for Angus and Hereford straws. Very helpful and easy to deal with. 

[farmerjo]

10 hours ago, Slugs11 said:

http://www.pornchaiinter.com/index1.html

 

Here is the web site for pornchaiinter, we have used them for Angus and Hereford straws. Very helpful and easy to deal with. 

Hi Slugs,

Could you give a little background info on why you would want to use straws over using Thai bulls here?

 

[EVENKEEL]

Something I never understood is why most folks don't separate bulls from heifers that are too young for breeding. Where I used to be up north when the rice was harvested the cattle from the entire soi were let loose to open range feed.

[kickstart]

Hi FJ 

        Why use AI over a bull ,we only have a few cattle and the cost of keeping a bull , feed ,vet/med ect, does not make economic sense ,we sold a Brangus bull ,  which could have been used for breeding , about the same size as this big heifer ,and  got 25 000 baht ,you can buy a lot of  AI straws for that money, also as I said to the OP ,a 2-year-old un-cut bull can be #$*king dangerous ,the last one we sold was starting to get a bit stroppy .

This smaller heifer is an Angus x mum was a Brahman x Thai Native ,she is 10 1/2 months old  , had to sell her mum, had an infertility problem ,I am going to keep her for breeding.

 The bigger heifer is 15 months old , mum is a Thai native, not much bigger than, daughter ,the bull was a Brangus bull (Brahman Angus),we got offered 25 000 baht 3 months ago ,but we are going to breed from her about the new year she will get served,

Another reason we use AI , is we have a good market to sell the cattle ,we have 2 local cattle breeders that will buy all our stock ,and will pay  above market price , one buyer likes our bulls ,he keeps them and fattens them up.

But, one big advantage a bull has , he will find the cows on heat, and serve them ,as the owner might not see the cow on heat ,and cattle like to come on heat at night time ,the bull will find her , where the owner could miss them.

It happened to us ,we had some heifers, not over big ,wanted something small  to put on them ,give them an easy calving ,we had an Angus X  bull ,which we where going to sell ,wife said use the bull to serve them ,so we did ,I never see any of  these heifers  on heat , but they never come on heat for 2 months ,so we did aPD, pregnancy diagnoses, thay where all in calf ,bull served the lot at night time .

A another big reason  for keeping a bull ,espeally  here in Thailand, you do not have to catch a very stroppy beef cow , and restrain her for AI-ing, very often not at all easy.