Work Permit Blues . . . .

[robsamui]

So we've got well off the point.
 

OTHER than niggles over the name of a stamp, is there anyone who has had experience in dealing with the Labor Department over a lost Work Permit?

[NanLaew]

33 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Let me make it even simpler:
Border run = cross the border and return.
Visa run = trip outside the country for new visa.

Extension of stay = the date on the passport & TM6 that results in a  visa being extended for any period of time.

So, in the simplest of terms, your 'border run' was absolutely nothing to do with your visa status and just because you wanted to.

[stevenl]

18 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Then why does it correspond exactly to the extension of stay (it even says "Non -IM') that was on both my lost passport and my TM6 card?
If it was just a 90-day stay, then surely it would have been dated from the day that I turned up at immigration on the 17th November with my new passport?
They have copied (read the border of the lower stamp) the extension of stay into my new passport, actually allowing me 36 days before expiry on the 23rd December, not 90 days.
 I would be SO grateful if people who had no knowledge of this didn't make comments, especially 'professional commenters' who on average have made 5 posts a day for the last 10 years.

"I would be SO grateful if people who had no knowledge of this didn't make comments, especially 'professional commenters' who on average have made 5 posts a day for the last 10 years."

 

I would be SO grateful if posters accepted the facts stated by more knowledgeable posters, in stead of sticking to their own incorrect opinions.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, robsamui said:

Let me make it even simpler:
Border run = cross the border and return.
Visa run = trip outside the country for new visa.

Extension of stay = the date on the passport & TM6 that results in a  visa being extended for any period of time.

With an extension of stay, you don't do border runs, only with a multiple entry visa.

[roobaa01]

the op wrote he had been employed by the same company for 12 yrs, thus the op had filed 11 tax returns . hence he might present this history together with a letter from the taxation deptm to the labour deptm. to ask for the wp. 

 

wbr

roobaa0

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, robsamui said:

OTHER than niggles over the name of a stamp, is there anyone who has had experience in dealing with the Labor Department over a lost Work Permit?

For a lost work permit t is normally a straight forward application for a replcement.

In your case a lost passport and work permit both lost complicated matters. Also your work permit expiring made it worse.

Perhaps if you had reported the lost work permit before it expired they could of done the extension application without your new passport. And then issued it when you got your new passport.

Now is appears you will need to apply for the work permit from scratch.

[BKK4]

A friend lost his WP, and went to do the daily report at the local police station, which worked at the L.D. 

[robsamui]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

For a lost work permit t is normally a straight forward application for a replcement.

In your case a lost passport and work permit both lost complicated matters. Also your work permit expiring made it worse.

Perhaps if you had reported the lost work permit before it expired they could of done the extension application without your new passport. And then issued it when you got your new passport.

Now is appears you will need to apply for the work permit from scratch.

I DID report the WP stolen to the Labor Dept before it expired - but the same reply - " . . . can do nothing without a relevant visa. Show me your passport with a visa and we will extend the application." By the time the passport came back, (and the nation had come to a halt for a week to pay respect to the King's funeral) the WP had gone past its sell-by date.

[robsamui]

4 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

the op wrote he had been employed by the same company for 12 yrs, thus the op had filed 11 tax returns . hence he might present this history together with a letter from the taxation deptm to the labour deptm. to ask for the wp. 

 

wbr

roobaa0

I spent time with a labor lawyer today, and he is compiling a case along these lines to present to get both immigration and the Labor Dept working together . . . he agrees with my view that for the Labor Dept to demand that I begin again is illegal, as it it is forcing me to relinquish 12-years of employment benefits under Thai law, and laying myself open to uncompensated dismissal any time my employer decides to cut back on his outgoings.

[robsamui]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

With an extension of stay, you don't do border runs, only with a multiple entry visa.

I really don't think you've read anything I've written about my situation in my original post.

And a talk with a labor lawyer today confirmed that the smaller stamp on the image I posted is, indeed, a copy of the last 90-day extension of stay that was entered against my Non-Immigrant B Multiple-entry visa in my passport that was lost or stolen.

[robsamui]

5 hours ago, stevenl said:

"I would be SO grateful if people who had no knowledge of this didn't make comments, especially 'professional commenters' who on average have made 5 posts a day for the last 10 years."

 

I would be SO grateful if posters accepted the facts stated by more knowledgeable posters, in stead of sticking to their own incorrect opinions.

Please see my latest comments regarding the labor lawyer I talked with today.

[ubonjoe]

Two off topic inflammatory posts have been removed.

[pearciderman]

22 minutes ago, robsamui said:

I really don't think you've read anything I've written about my situation in my original post.

And a talk with a labor lawyer today confirmed that the smaller stamp on the image I posted is, indeed, a copy of the last 90-day extension of stay that was entered against my Non-Immigrant B Multiple-entry visa in my passport that was lost or stolen.

 

"90-day extension of stay" 

 

Wrong, it is a copy of your last permission to stay, you don't have an extension of stay.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, robsamui said:

Please see my latest comments regarding the labor lawyer I talked with today.

And your terminology is still incorrect.

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, robsamui said:

I really don't think you've read anything I've written about my situation in my original post.

And a talk with a labor lawyer today confirmed that the smaller stamp on the image I posted is, indeed, a copy of the last 90-day extension of stay that was entered against my Non-Immigrant B Multiple-entry visa in my passport that was lost or stolen.

I have read everything but you refuse to accept you are wrong.

[pearciderman]

Just a thought, but if you have been getting new multi-entry Non-B visas for your employment, then you already have "breaks" in your employment, because as you leave Thailand on your last permission to stay it is cancelled. Then you apply for a visa one day and collect the next day, so you have at least a one day break in your legally employed status, as for at least on day, you don't have a Non-B.

 

Might be worth checking ?

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, pearciderman said:

Just a thought, but if you have been getting new multi-entry Non-B visas for your employment, then you already have "breaks" in your employment, because as you leave Thailand on your last permission to stay it is cancelled. Then you apply for a visa one day and collect the next day, so you have at least a one day break in your legally employed status, as for at least on day, you don't have a Non-B.

 

Might be worth checking ?

Extensions of stay are cancelled, ie if you do 90 day reports.

If you have a multi entry 'visa' it isn't cancelled.

[pearciderman]

2 hours ago, overherebc said:

Extensions of stay are cancelled, ie if you do 90 day reports.

If you have a multi entry 'visa' it isn't cancelled.

 

I did not say that his visa would be cancelled, I said "as you leave Thailand on your last permission to stay it is cancelled."

 

Meaning as he spends a day or two in another country, he has no valid permission of stay for Thailand, ergo, that might be considered a break in employment, as you can't work with a valid permission of stay.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

Meaning as he spends a day or two in another country, he has no valid permission of stay for Thailand, ergo, that might be considered a break in employment, as you can't work with a valid permission of stay.

That does not affect his job or work permit. Neither end when he leaves the country to get a new 90 day entry or visa.

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

I did not say that his visa would be cancelled, I said "as you leave Thailand on your last permission to stay it is cancelled."

 

Meaning as he spends a day or two in another country, he has no valid permission of stay for Thailand, ergo, that might be considered a break in employment, as you can't work with a valid permission of stay.

A break in employment would require a resignation or dismissal and a period of not paying tax etc. 

Your reasoning would mean that for the last several years of my working here on multi O visas it could be claimed I was on 3 month contracts all the time.

[pearciderman]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That does not affect his job or work permit. Neither end when he leaves the country to get a new 90 day entry or visa.

 

3 minutes ago, overherebc said:

A break in employment would require a resignation or dismissal and a period of not paying tax etc. 

 

As I said initially, it was just a thought - How can you be legally employed without a valid permission to stay. I am sure it will make no difference in the end - unless the Labour office see "gaps" in his permission to stay history. Then and only possibly, it could make a difference to any severance he might be due. Employers would rather not pay it if they don't have to.

[overherebc]

29 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

 

As I said initially, it was just a thought - How can you be legally employed without a valid permission to stay. I am sure it will make no difference in the end - unless the Labour office see "gaps" in his permission to stay history. Then and only possibly, it could make a difference to any severance he might be due. Employers would rather not pay it if they don't have to.

Severence pay is based on tax records as a first considerstion.

My wife worked for a multi national for 7 years, first contract was 3 years and the second was 4. When the work finished the company tried to say she was only entitled to 4 years severance pay. Labour court decided in favour of my wife and she got the full 7 years entitlement. There was a gap of two months between when she wasn't working but was being paid so 7 years unbroken tax records was the deciding factor.

Edit.

Even if the company asks you sign a new contract every year but continues to pay you every month the labour court will disregard the new yearly contracts and decide on your continuous tax records.

[robsamui]

On 12/13/2017 at 5:35 AM, NanLaew said:

So, in the simplest of terms, your 'border run' was absolutely nothing to do with your visa status and just because you wanted to.

You've got it! You would indeed have to be very simple to use those terms :-)

 

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, robsamui said:

You've got it! You would indeed have to be very simple to use those terms :-)

 

Done similar, long weekend holiday somewhere when my next 90 day out/in wasn't due for a month or whatever. Just get another 90 days when you come back in.

[scorecard]

On 12/12/2017 at 11:30 PM, tonray said:

Really 18,000 baht how can that be ? Is this some kind of super secret agent WP ? How long is the contract ?

Is your employer using an agent or a lawyer. If yes 18,000Baht

 

On 12/13/2017 at 10:38 AM, stevenl said:

I think you have missed the point. The labor department fee is not 18,000 Baht.

True.