Anyone been refused hospital treatment because no longer considered a resident of Australia?

[Sydneyboy1]

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 11:49 AM, simple1 said:

As you claim to hold a current valid Medicare card one would assume you're covered. As a caution should be noted that should staff be bothered to check your residency status, unlikely, info that you have been out of the country for eight years would be available. 

I don't think doctors surgery or hospitals would have access to his residency status. That would be a centrelink responsibility.  

[SpeakeasyThai]

On 19/12/2017 at 7:51 PM, sirmud63 said:

your cover expires after 2 years out of the country, you can reapply .

and like stated ,you will need a permanant address.

however , depending on your situation, you may not be eligble if you havnt been paying any tax for 8 years.

you could be classed as a nonresident and have to reside incountry for a time to be eligble.

go to the website and you will find everything you need to know .

Makes a mockery out of that BS happy feelly 'I am, you are, we are Australian' jingle.

[Pungdo]

I have been living here now for nearly 11 years and quite a few years ago declared myself a non-resident, I was home for a couple of weeks at the end of September and got some new specs made while I was there, when his receptionist looked me up I was still showing in Medicare, even though I have not paid the levy since I declared myself a non-resident.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Pungdo

[malcoml]

On 12/20/2017 at 1:06 PM, giddyup said:

I'm wondering, even though I have been out of the country for 8 years I still hold a current Medicare card, so if I turn up at a hospital will I be refused treatment?

 

No, the hospital will just see a Medicare card and treat you.

 

That said if you have been filling out non-resident tax returns they may cross-reference and in theory, you could get a bill in the mail.

[Old Croc]

I'm in the same boat as others here. Lived in Thailand for 7 years, but have an updated card sent to a friends house which I use as my Australian address.

In the unlikely event I was to return there and seek treatment I would have no compunction about using this card even though I may breach the inequitable rules they inflict upon those vagabond citizens who choose to roam the world rather than grown old and die in a facility.

Almost certainly the card would be accepted by doctors and hospitals and treatment billed appropriately, but an eagle eye processor in Medicare may notice there have been no claims in many years and check Immigration status. They certainly wouldn't check all claims.

Of course, once in Australia, it wouldn't be hard to re-establish these rights even if the intention isn't to stay.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Old Croc

[Mr Bill]

If your an AU Citizen you would not be refused medicaI care especially if you have medicare.I was in similar situation in 2014 I'd been based out of Cnx for 5 years been back to Oz once. I came back due to work tried to renew my medicare card. Despite Au passport. Birth cert. Utility bill old medicare number. and work contract was refused a medicare card. Reason apparently  i couldn't prove I was here to stay.  1yr later i went back they said i was listed as deceased.  Lady rang Canberra said hes sitting here in front of me. Suddenly instant card was granted. She said if something had happened they wouldn't have refused care.

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Mr Bill

[norbra]

Recently returned to Australia for minor skin cancer treatment(May 2017) paid a visit to Centrelink advising a new address,no problem but as you have been os for a while you are listed as a non resident and so no concession card if you intend to return os. Medicare in same office ,advised them also of new address they mailed a new card to me. Initial excision had to be redone and involved plastic surgery x 3 and 7 weeks of radiation in a public hospital. All done free of charge over a 7 month period.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Sydneyboy1 said:

I don't think doctors surgery or hospitals would have access to his residency status. That would be a centrelink responsibility.  

Medical locations have access to Medicare / Centrelink info. eg. I have been warned by phone that my Centrelink authorised Medicare concession card is about to expire prior to an appointment; if not renewed I would be billed for appt fee.

[MadMuhammad]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

The way I see it is, if the system we all paid taxes into for decades, suddenly turns on us because we decide to reside overseas for a cheaper, more affordable lifestyle, we shouldn't be punished by being stricken off the list, i.e. Medicare and voting.

 

Ask yourself this, how many people get Medicare who live in Australia and have NEVER contributed to the tax system.

 

I say do whatever it takes to get yourself medical help, and if that means tell a curly one, then so be it, as I am sick to the core of having done the right thing all of my life for "other" who have never contributed to the system, yet get to bleed it continuously, politicians have it wrong and have been f'n xpats for years, because we are easy targets, why else would they strike us off the electoral role, because in numbers we can cause them problems, big problems, but by tying our hands they can bend us over and drive us as far away as they want.

 

Lie through your teeth if you have paid your due's, but NEVER tale an individual for a ride.

When it comes to governmental departments honesty gets you nowhere 

[ravip]

32 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

When it comes to governmental departments honesty gets you nowhere 

Seems dishonesty pays well!

Ever heard of a poor dishonest person?

(at least until he is caught)

 

[1337markus]

On 12/19/2017 at 6:55 PM, BEVUP said:

Just go & apply for a new Medicare card, see what happens

But you must be able to prove an address 

Australian address should have been put here. Yes I was denied a new Medicare card because I was honest enough to say I live in Thailand and put that address down on the paperwork. If I put down a friends Australian address then no issue. Medicare staff cannot think outside the box that you can only use the card in Australia, and were not interested when I said I still pay the Medicare levy where ever I live. Only response was take it up with the ATO.

[malcoml]

On a different note the DOT in Qld was going to deny me renewing my drivers license.

 

I explained that in certain countries when renting a car that a Thai license would not be accepted (Emirates). 

 

I had a big argument and had to book a fake return ticket to Oz before they would issue me a license.

[giddyup]

38 minutes ago, 1337markus said:

Australian address should have been put here. Yes I was denied a new Medicare card because I was honest enough to say I live in Thailand and put that address down on the paperwork. If I put down a friends Australian address then no issue. Medicare staff cannot think outside the box that you can only use the card in Australia, and were not interested when I said I still pay the Medicare levy where ever I live. Only response was take it up with the ATO.

I renewed my Medicare card (twice) by phone using their toll free number, gave a friends address in Oz and received a new card both times.

[Laza 45]

On 12/20/2017 at 5:52 PM, sirmud63 said:

yep , immigration computers are linked to just about every government agency, every time your passport goes thru immigration they know exactly where you are .

 

Centerlink is connected to immigration... Medicare isn't... I found out the hard way by asking a question and got cut off.. I was told at that time that Medicare doesn't have access to immigration.. I used a Medicare card for years with no problem but when it expired I was out of the country.. I asked about a new card and got cut off :-(   It is hard to get back on.. you have to prove that you have no ties to another country.. not easy and that you will remain in Australia..

[tigermoth]

On ‎19‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:51 PM, sirmud63 said:

your cover expires after 2 years out of the country, you can reapply .

and like stated ,you will need a permanant address.

however , depending on your situation, you may not be eligble if you havnt been paying any tax for 8 years.

you could be classed as a nonresident and have to reside incountry for a time to be eligble.

go to the website and you will find everything you need to know .

To qualify for medicare you must have -

1. Permanent resident status which if you do not have will require you returning to Australia and staying permanently for 2 years.

2. After achieving permananent resident status and having a permanant Australian address you may leave Australia but have to return within 5 years or lose it.

3. You have to renew your permanant residency status every year.

 

[giddyup]

2 hours ago, tigermoth said:

To qualify for medicare you must have -

1. Permanent resident status which if you do not have will require you returning to Australia and staying permanently for 2 years.

2. After achieving permananent resident status and having a permanant Australian address you may leave Australia but have to return within 5 years or lose it.

3. You have to renew your permanant residency status every year.

 

That doesn't answer my question.

[Will27]

20 hours ago, tigermoth said:

To qualify for medicare you must have -

1. Permanent resident status which if you do not have will require you returning to Australia and staying permanently for 2 years.

2. After achieving permananent resident status and having a permanant Australian address you may leave Australia but have to return within 5 years or lose it.

3. You have to renew your permanant residency status every year.

 

I'm not too sure about number 3.

[Pungdo]

On 03/01/2018 at 2:20 PM, tigermoth said:

To qualify for medicare you must have -

1. Permanent resident status which if you do not have will require you returning to Australia and staying permanently for 2 years.

2. After achieving permananent resident status and having a permanant Australian address you may leave Australia but have to return within 5 years or lose it.

3. You have to renew your permanant residency status every year.

How do you explain the fact that I am still in the system and have no Medicare card, but every time they do a check, I am still in the system and get medicare and to top it off as a declared non-resident I don't pay the Medicare levy and have been out of the country almost permanently for nearly 11 years ??

[ELVIS123456]

To qualify for medicare you must have -

1. Permanent resident status which if you do not have will require you returning to Australia and staying permanently for 2 years.

2. After achieving permananent resident status and having a permanant Australian address you may leave Australia but have to return within 5 years or lose it.

3. You have to renew your permanant residency status every year.

 

Those 3 points above are completely wrong IMO.

 

To receive Medicare you must have a Medicare Card and to get a Medicare Card you must be either :

• an Australian citizen
• a New Zealand citizen
• an Australian permanent resident
• applying for permanent residency - conditions apply
• covered by a Ministerial Order, or
• a Resident Return visa holder

You may also get a Medicare card if you’re visiting from a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement country.

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/who-can-get-medicare-card

 

When it comes to what living overseas means to renewing a Medicare Card, or what happens if your Medicare Card has expired while you are overseas, there is no clear answer that I could find and I gues it is a case by case situation.  The following seems to cover this situation as best as is available, but seems to be 'flexible' in its application to individuals:

 

If your card has expired

If your card expired 6 months ago or more, visit a service centre to request a replacement. You'll need an identity document, such as your driver’s licence. You may also need to show evidence you’re living in Australia. Remember to bring 2 documents to prove you live in Australia like a utility bill, rental agreement or employment contract.

If you’re overseas

If you’re overseas, we can’t replace your card until you return to Australia to live.

This includes if you’re:

• an Australian citizen who’s overseas for more than 5 years
• an Australian permanent resident or New Zealand citizen who’s overseas for more than 12 months

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/expired-medicare-cards

 

Yet another reason to maintain an Australian address with a friend/relative, and to return for a while at least every 2-5 years.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by ELVIS123456
typos

[4MyEgo]

On 04/01/2018 at 11:32 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

To qualify for medicare you must have -

1. Permanent resident status which if you do not have will require you returning to Australia and staying permanently for 2 years.

2. After achieving permananent resident status and having a permanant Australian address you may leave Australia but have to return within 5 years or lose it.

3. You have to renew your permanant residency status every year.

 

Those 3 points above are completely wrong IMO.

 

To receive Medicare you must have a Medicare Card and to get a Medicare Card you must be either :

• an Australian citizen
• a New Zealand citizen
• an Australian permanent resident
• applying for permanent residency - conditions apply
• covered by a Ministerial Order, or
• a Resident Return visa holder

You may also get a Medicare card if you’re visiting from a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement country.

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/who-can-get-medicare-card

 

When it comes to what living overseas means to renewing a Medicare Card, or what happens if your Medicare Card has expired while you are overseas, there is no clear answer that I could find and I gues it is a case by case situation.  The following seems to cover this situation as best as is available, but seems to be 'flexible' in its application to individuals:

 

If your card has expired

If your card expired 6 months ago or more, visit a service centre to request a replacement. You'll need an identity document, such as your driver’s licence. You may also need to show evidence you’re living in Australia. Remember to bring 2 documents to prove you live in Australia like a utility bill, rental agreement or employment contract.

If you’re overseas

If you’re overseas, we can’t replace your card until you return to Australia to live.

This includes if you’re:

• an Australian citizen who’s overseas for more than 5 years
• an Australian permanent resident or New Zealand citizen who’s overseas for more than 12 months

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/expired-medicare-cards

 

Yet another reason to maintain an Australian address with a friend/relative, and to return for a while at least every 2-5 years.

 

 

For what its worth, I have been living here in Thailand for just over 2 years, and after 18 months of living here, I returned to Sydney for a week and used my Medicare card which doesn't expire until late 2019 and all worked well.

 

Living in Thailand has left me wide open if I do not take out International Health Care Cover, recently enquiring and quoted around $300AUS per month excluding medical evacuation, which is another $100AUS per month, suffice to say it is expensive to me, as it doesn't cover an existing medical condition, however allows me to return to Australia for surgery if I choose, or go ahead and have surgery her in Thailand if I require it. So do I take it, or do I leave it, well that is the $3,600 annual question at the moment.

 

I just fired off an email to Medicare, asking them to clarify something up for me regarding non residents, i.e. how is an Australian Citizen currently residing overseas as a non resident, paying or not paying tax treated with regard to Medicare services back in Australia, e.g. is he/she entitled to Medicare for a period of 5 years while absent, i.e. if he/she returns before 5 years, can he/she use the system ?

 

Once I have the email returned with the answer to my question I will copy and paste it for all to peruse and make what you will of it, although it can take up to 28 days I am advised.

 

The way I see it is, if it is 5 years, I can put the thought of International Health Care Cover on the back burner for another 3 years, then I am going to have to seriously look into some scheming way of tacking out travel insurance either via a credit card (free), when in Australia during the last year and purchase a return ticket, i.e. Sydney to Thailand with a one year return date so as to say I am on a one year holiday, and maybe look into removing my spousal extensions from that date forward and go on a tourist visa, renewing it for a 12 month period with border runs or something like that, at least that way I can say I am on an extended holiday, my wife and children live here, but we are separated.

 

Anyone like my thinking or am I taking on too much air ?

 

[ELVIS123456]

20 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

For what its worth, I have been living here in Thailand for just over 2 years, and after 18 months of living here, I returned to Sydney for a week and used my Medicare card which doesn't expire until late 2019 and all worked well.

 

Living in Thailand has left me wide open if I do not take out International Health Care Cover, recently enquiring and quoted around $300AUS per month excluding medical evacuation, which is another $100AUS per month, suffice to say it is expensive to me, as it doesn't cover an existing medical condition, however allows me to return to Australia for surgery if I choose, or go ahead and have surgery her in Thailand if I require it. So do I take it, or do I leave it, well that is the $3,600 annual question at the moment.

 

I just fired off an email to Medicare, asking them to clarify something up for me regarding non residents, i.e. how is an Australian Citizen currently residing overseas as a non resident, paying or not paying tax treated with regard to Medicare services back in Australia, e.g. is he/she entitled to Medicare for a period of 5 years while absent, i.e. if he/she returns before 5 years, can he/she use the system ?

 

Once I have the email returned with the answer to my question I will copy and paste it for all to peruse and make what you will of it, although it can take up to 28 days I am advised.

 

The way I see it is, if it is 5 years, I can put the thought of International Health Care Cover on the back burner for another 3 years, then I am going to have to seriously look into some scheming way of tacking out travel insurance either via a credit card (free), when in Australia during the last year and purchase a return ticket, i.e. Sydney to Thailand with a one year return date so as to say I am on a one year holiday, and maybe look into removing my spousal extensions from that date forward and go on a tourist visa, renewing it for a 12 month period with border runs or something like that, at least that way I can say I am on an extended holiday, my wife and children live here, but we are separated.

 

Anyone like my thinking or am I taking on too much air ?

 

It is my intention to remain resident in Australia, and there are many advantages in doing that - keeping Medicare is one.  Travel Insurance with full medical coverage and repatriation to Aust is very cheap - 12 months is available and it can be extended (100s not 1000s).  If I suffer a serious emergency (car accident, stroke, heart attack, etc) when in Thailand it is all covered, including getting back to Aust. If it is not a serious emergency than I either go locally and pay, or I have the option of taking a trip back to Aust to have it diagnosed and fixed.  As long as you maintain an address and dont stay away for more than 2 years straight, and be in the country when your medicare card is going to expire/renew, then it should all be good.  Maintaining residency means keeping Medicare and IMO that alone is worth the trouble if/when things start to fall apart and they will most certainly. 

 

Regarding the costs of insurance - $4000 a year is a lot of money and it is all gone if you dont use it.  Once you turn 65, it’s hard to obtain comprehensive health insurance. One reason for the age limit is that on average people accumulate 80% of their health care expenses in the last 5 years of their lives. Of course acceptance is just one part of it – the other is the premium: Above the age of 60 any form of insurance coverage won’t come cheap. Insurance plans in Thailand don’t subsidize older age brackets with premiums from younger members.

 

The reality in Thailand is that once you are 60 the medical insurance coverage is reduced and premiums go up up and up. And in Thailand there is SFA you can do if the insurance company says "no can pay - me sorry" - and that does happen.  There aint no Insurance Ombudsman or Consumer Affairs as such, and the Courts System aint the same in Thailand.  

 

IMO if you are going to stay and not keep residency and therefore lose the Medicare Card, then you should consider what some guys do.  Take the $4000 PA and put it into a separate 'medical fund' investment for you and all the family.  Dont touch it for anything under say $250K Baht and after 5 years you should have a decent amount, and after 10 years you should have enough to cover just about anything. There is no rainy day like the rainy day you (or wife/kids) are admitted to hospital with serious life threatening injuries, or that medical issue is diagnosed as a serious life threatening disease.  

[toughlove]

Just got a card last week after being out of oz for 4 years (max for Medicare is 5) told then I live in Thailand and no problems. They asked me do I have an address in oz where they can send renewals and I said my sons place

No problem. But I think it depends on the officer processing it and how much the know about the rules

[4MyEgo]

17 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

It is my intention to remain resident in Australia, and there are many advantages in doing that - keeping Medicare is one.  Travel Insurance with full medical coverage and repatriation to Aust is very cheap - 12 months is available and it can be extended (100s not 1000s).  If I suffer a serious emergency (car accident, stroke, heart attack, etc) when in Thailand it is all covered, including getting back to Aust. If it is not a serious emergency than I either go locally and pay, or I have the option of taking a trip back to Aust to have it diagnosed and fixed.  As long as you maintain an address and dont stay away for more than 2 years straight, and be in the country when your medicare card is going to expire/renew, then it should all be good.  Maintaining residency means keeping Medicare and IMO that alone is worth the trouble if/when things start to fall apart and they will most certainly. 

 

Regarding the costs of insurance - $4000 a year is a lot of money and it is all gone if you dont use it.  Once you turn 65, it’s hard to obtain comprehensive health insurance. One reason for the age limit is that on average people accumulate 80% of their health care expenses in the last 5 years of their lives. Of course acceptance is just one part of it – the other is the premium: Above the age of 60 any form of insurance coverage won’t come cheap. Insurance plans in Thailand don’t subsidize older age brackets with premiums from younger members.

 

The reality in Thailand is that once you are 60 the medical insurance coverage is reduced and premiums go up up and up. And in Thailand there is SFA you can do if the insurance company says "no can pay - me sorry" - and that does happen.  There aint no Insurance Ombudsman or Consumer Affairs as such, and the Courts System aint the same in Thailand.  

 

IMO if you are going to stay and not keep residency and therefore lose the Medicare Card, then you should consider what some guys do.  Take the $4000 PA and put it into a separate 'medical fund' investment for you and all the family.  Dont touch it for anything under say $250K Baht and after 5 years you should have a decent amount, and after 10 years you should have enough to cover just about anything. There is no rainy day like the rainy day you (or wife/kids) are admitted to hospital with serious life threatening injuries, or that medical issue is diagnosed as a serious life threatening disease.  

Thx Elvis123456 yes maintaining residency is good if you can, however with kids going to school here and being self retired, your residency is lost automatically, however there are benefits to it, i.e. if you are fortunate enough to have funds from the sale of property and invest it into the ASX as you are aware, no tax is payable on fully franked shares and no capital gains tax, sure Medicare will be out of the window eventually, I think 5 years, but waiting on confirmation from the email to them.

 

I do self insure with the money I have from the sale of my assets, just a matter of selling a few shares, although I have saved about $8,000AUS or 200,000 baht in the 2 years I have been here by not taking out international health insurance, and like you said, if you don't have any issues for 10 years, that will be about a million baht, still doesn't get you much in Thailand, if its a major operation, and if your Medicare is out the window after 5 years, your a sitting duck in my opinion, hence the reason I am waiting on the confirmation from Medicare, because if it is out in 5 years, international health cover will have to come into play before I turn 60 otherwise you have Buckley's getting it, but the big ones like Cigna and Bupa can be taken before international tribunals if they reject you based on age, and I don't think they would try it until you are at least 75-80, that or like you said, spike the premiums, but those two mentioned are reputable from my enquiries and good payers, also including coverage in Thailand and Australia as your choice for any operation.

 

I suppose one could say with not paying tax on investments, its a win/win when looking at trying to retain residency with kids going to school in Thailand, I suppose I can't have my cake and eat it too, well maybe for 3 more years I hope, and then will have to pay for the international health cover out of the taxes saved, but still, its a big outlay in anyone's terms, especially when you are self retired and have kids, I mean, I could take the family back to Australia for a holiday with that, well almost.

 

I do have another choice, the twin boys turn 14 soon and we can take them back to Australia when they finish school to work and save money to bring back to Thailand for their future, and while we are living in Australia, Medicare could be reinstated, I could obtain the threshold x 2 @ $18,200 each and pay tax, but that would defeat the purpose of living the dream here, ah....life's a bitch if you let it be...lol

[4MyEgo]

24 minutes ago, toughlove said:

Just got a card last week after being out of oz for 4 years (max for Medicare is 5) told then I live in Thailand and no problems. They asked me do I have an address in oz where they can send renewals and I said my sons place

No problem. But I think it depends on the officer processing it and how much the know about the rules

Sounds like the 5 year rule, i.e. it might lapse in a year, although it will have an expiry date for another 4 years after the one year that will take you to 5 years out of Australia.

 

Unless you are an Australian resident for tax purposes, and paying tax, I don't think it will lapse, as you are paying your taxes as an Australian resident, hence the reason you would be able to claim Medicare even if you are overseas.

 

Which one are you, a resident or a non resident ?

[toughlove]

Sounds like the 5 year rule, i.e. it might lapse in a year, although it will have an expiry date for another 4 years after the one year that will take you to 5 years out of Australia.
 
Unless you are an Australian resident for tax purposes, and paying tax, I don't think it will lapse, as you are paying your taxes as an Australian resident, hence the reason you would be able to claim Medicare even if you are overseas.
 
Which one are you, a resident or a non resident ?

Non residant on unlimited portability disability pension.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, toughlove said:

Non residant on unlimited portability disability pension.

Hmmm, might have to do with it being a disability pension, not up to speed on that.

[toughlove]

Hmmm, might have to do with it being a disability pension, not up to speed on that.

No that makes no difference. But now that I think of it the supervisor told the pc boy to make a remark in my notes that I have another 1 year before my card expires.

I Thought if I touched base that would automatically give me an extra 5 years.

Maybe I heard her wrong

[4MyEgo]

20 minutes ago, toughlove said:

No that makes no difference. But now that I think of it the supervisor told the pc boy to make a remark in my notes that I have another 1 year before my card expires.

I Thought if I touched base that would automatically give me an extra 5 years.

Maybe I heard her wrong

It's all in the air, anyway as soon as I get an answer in writing from them regarding the 5 years, I will update, that is if I get a reply, I am expecting the usual, please refer to our link, which tells you what we want you to hear, not what we want you to know 555

[tropo]

On 12/19/2017 at 8:22 PM, ravip said:

Is it legally correct?

Of course not, but no one will ask. I made the mistake of losing mine as a renewal form was sent to an old address. You need to prove a permanent address and you'll be back on again. Whether you pay tax or not doesn't matter. All unemployed people have them too.

[sirmud63]

13 hours ago, toughlove said:

Non residant on unlimited portability disability pension.

hi , iv been living in chaing mai for 5 years .

had to return to ozz a year ago when my dad died , i manage his estate for the last year .

i applyed for and got the full disability pension , im profoundly deaf. 

i want to come back in feb ,when the estate is settled ,so 3 days ago i had my interview for making my pension portable ,like yours. could you please tell me of your experiance in gaining your portability and anything i may find usefull?

can PM me if you want.