Refused boarding at Heathrow to come to Thailand

[007 RED]

16 hours ago, Danielsiam said:

How Heathrow can access to Thailand Immigration Database ?

 

Or she was denied entry at Bangkok airport ?

 

Really weird, if it was 23 years ago, it will appear nothing on her new passport.

Since when Thailand Immigration share her information to the UK authority.. weird weird, need more explaination

FYI – There are currently 26 countries operating the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS).  Basically this requires any international airline flying into any one of these countries to provide basic passport information of the passenger before boarding.

 

The passenger passport info is collected by the airline either at the time of booking or during the check-in process and automatically passed to the APIS server in the country of departure..

The APIS server then passes the passenger passport info immigration, customs and law enforcement systems in both the country of departure and country of destination.  Each system (immigration/customs/law enforcement) will automatically compare the passport details with that contained in their respective databases and either give a code back to the APIS that the passenger is clear to board or should be refused boarding.  This code is then relayed back to the airline.  The process only takes matter of a few seconds to complete.  The airline only has a code indicating OK to board or refuse, they are not given any reason for the refusal.

 

Information sharing between immigration from various countries does occur, but only under very special circumstances.  It is not something that happens on an every day basic or routine matter.

[007 RED]

6 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

So which airlines "participate" and which airlines don't?  What's the "mandate" to "participate", if any?  If the vast majority do, or all oceanic or long-haul flights do, I'm impressed.  If just Thai-flagged airlines do, not so much.  "Non-participating" is pretty much just a fancy term for "status-quo".  

 

 

As I have mentioned in previous posts, there are currently 26 countries operating the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS).  Any international airline flying into a country operating APIS must provide basic passport information for each passenger prior to the passenger boarding the aircraft.

 

The mandate is quite simple – It’s part of the airlines agreement with the aviation authority of the destination country.  If the airline wants to fly into a country operating APIS then they must comply with that countries requirements or they don’t get landing rights.

 

FYI – Thailand is one of the countries operating APIS (although they call it Advance Passenger Information Service).  The only time that some airlines would be providing passenger passport info and some not would be during the initial implementation period.  That said, the implementation period can be up to a year.

[ukrules]

19 hours ago, Aza90 said:

Have my family coming over for Christmas and my Sister has just been refused boarding. This is due to her being deported from the Kingdom after being caught with a little smoke on the Islands 23 years ago. She has been told her case is still pending? This is a nightmare! Can anyone give some advice as to what needs to be done to try and close the case with Immigration and if we can, how long would that take?

 

If it is possible to do this it will take too long.

 

Forget about the Thai holiday this year for your sister, it's simply not going to happen.

[connda]

Which say a lot about not indulging in a 'little smoke', or nowadays even 'evil' e-cigs. 
 

[watcharacters]

22 hours ago, sanemax said:

Dont airlines have to give a  passenger list to Thai immigration and get confirmation that all the passengers can fly ?

 

 

 

THat's interesting.   

 

 

Suppose it could be done but what a complication that makes for the process of flying to a destination.

 

 

 

[sanemax]

50 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

THat's interesting. 

Suppose it could be done but what a complication that makes for the process of flying to a destination.

It could all be done automatically, the airline sends all the passengers details to Bangkok, which goes straight into a computer and the computer checks for any undesirables.

   Thinking about it, that is what may have happened in this case .

She was on the list and the computer said "no"

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It could all be done automatically, the airline sends all the passengers details to Bangkok, which goes straight into a computer and the computer checks for any undesirables.

   Thinking about it, that is what may have happened in this case .

She was on the list and the computer said "no"

 

 

 

Time out,   please.

 

 

What I'm saying is if such a plan were enacted it would by definition mean EVERY international flight would  have to have the same reporting standard.

 

I can only see that as a reporting mess.   Boondoggle.

 

 

Thailand would certainly deserve no special status with this.

 

Oh,   your flight has been delayed due to reporting issues or conflicts..

 

 

You see my point?    I hope so as I've lost the plot..   Or was there ever any?

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

Time out,   please.

What I'm saying is if such a plan were enacted it would by definition mean EVERY international flight would  have to have the same reporting standard.

I can only see that as a reporting mess.   Boondoggle.

Thailand would certainly deserve no special status with this.

Oh,   your flight has been delayed due to reporting issues or conflicts..You see my point?    I hope so as I've lost the plot..   Or was there ever any?

It would be quite simple to with computers, and I do believe that other Countries also have this system in place .

  It benefits the airlines because they dont have to deal with any passengers who get refused entry, the airline would have to fly them home at their expense .

Flights dont get delayed either, because checks are done before passengers get on the plane

[Maestro]

19 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Thailand implemented their APPS (Advanced Passenger Processing System) on/about February, 2016...

 

Thank you for posting this, complete with links to relevant news reports. This development had escaped my attention.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post and the reply to it.

[overherebc]

18 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Do you really think computers were not invented by December 1994?? Several posts after yours mention it as well!  When you traveled to Thailand then I guess immigration held up your passport next to your face and if it was a close visual match they reached for a stone tablet and put a mark next to your name.  I am dumbfounded by how many people liked these posts. 

One of the first ( computers ) I ever used was in 1969. Although obviously very basic it was a computer.

Google FACE Field Artillery Computer Equipment. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by overherebc
Adding photo.

[jeab1980]

16 hours ago, 007 RED said:

Sorry to disappoint you but you were checked before you boarded the plane.

 

When you made your booking, even 2 hours before departure, the airline either asked for your passport details, or if you were an existing customer they already had the info in their system. 

 

The airline booking system would then have automatically passed your passport details to the APIS in the UK which in turn would passed it onto the APIS server in Thailand. 

 

The APIS server in Thailand will then pass your passport info to the immigration system, the customs system and the RTP – special branch system.  Each of these systems would then automatically compare your passport info against that held within their respective database. 

 

Each system (immigration/customs/special branch) will then return code to the APIS server in Thailand indicating that you are OK to board or not.  After receiving all three check codes from the respective systems the Thailand APIS server  relays a code back to the APIS in the UK which in turn passes the code back to the airline. 

 

FYI - The code, if refuse boarding, does not give any reason why.

 

The whole process is fully automatic and completed in only a few seconds.

 

International airlines who fly into any one of the 26 countries currently operating the APIS will not allow a passenger to board/fly without an approval code from the destination country as they will be fined very heavily and liable for the costs in returning the passenger to the point of departure.

Why would I be disapointed?  I merely pointed out I booked a flight 2 hrs before take off. On a weekend earl morning. As for this on line checking Christ alive Thai immigration cant even get a simple 90 day report procedure to work properly. An integrated system with other countries 5555 what a joke

[Mattd]

13 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

As for this on line checking Christ alive Thai immigration cant even get a simple 90 day report procedure to work properly.

Whether you believe it or not there is a system now in place and based on the OP's sister's experience it does work!

http://www.thai-apps.com/en/about/participate-agencies.html

[sanemax]

37 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Why would I be disapointed?  I merely pointed out I booked a flight 2 hrs before take off. On a weekend earl morning. As for this on line checking Christ alive Thai immigration cant even get a simple 90 day report procedure to work properly. An integrated system with other countries 5555 what a joke

Computers can do checks instantly these days , 2 hours would have been plenty of time to do so nd computers do not have the week end off

[007 RED]

59 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Why would I be disapointed?  I merely pointed out I booked a flight 2 hrs before take off. On a weekend earl morning. As for this on line checking Christ alive Thai immigration cant even get a simple 90 day report procedure to work properly. An integrated system with other countries 5555 what a joke

Sorry, but you are miss quoting yourself.  What you actually said in your post No. 50 was:

 

“Last time I flew out of heathrow last year in December I booked a very very last minute flight 2 hrs before the flight departed to be precise. No way they could have sent anything to immigration here before I left it was 0200 here on a Sunday morning 1900 from UK on a saturday.

So there is more to this than quoted”

 

My response was to inform you that the APIS can, and does, transfer passenger passport details to the destination country even in the case of a last minute booking.

 

FYI - APIS has nothing to do with 90 day reporting.

[anon789561]

seems a bit strange getting deported for weed. i got caught with exctasy in tonglor about 20 years ago. 500 baht fine and a letter for immo for 2 years. been in and out ever since with no problems. you sure she didn't do something more serious

[007 RED]

10 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Time out,   please.

 

 

What I'm saying is if such a plan were enacted it would by definition mean EVERY international flight would  have to have the same reporting standard.

 

I can only see that as a reporting mess.   Boondoggle.

 

 

Thailand would certainly deserve no special status with this.

 

Oh,   your flight has been delayed due to reporting issues or conflicts..

 

 

You see my point?    I hope so as I've lost the plot..   Or was there ever any?

FYI -  The Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) was developed as a joint project between the USA (NSA) and the UK (GCHQ) following the 911 terrorist attack in 2001.

 

The system was first implemented by the USA in 2005 and required all international carriers with flight destined for any airport with the USA to provide passenger biographical details prior to the passenger boarding the aircraft.  US Customs & Boarder Protection who operated the system at the time would then check their databases to see if anything was known about the passenger and give the airline clearance to accept the passenger for boarding or advise the airline to deny boarding.

 

Since its introduction in 2005, 25 other countries have introduced APIS requirements and over 300 international airlines booking systems are now providing API. 

 

Thailand introduced APIS in late 2015 (with a transition period of 12 months), so now all passengers arriving at any one of the 6 international airport will have been screened before they boarded the aircraft.

 

Because the interchange of information (via APIS) between the airline and the destination counties law enforcement agencies is very fast, the chance of a flight being delayed by the APIS are very remote. 

 

I think if there were massive delays cause by the system, as you have suggested, passengers and airlines would be up in arms and there would have been considerable media attention given to the problem.  That has not been the case.

[Evilbaz]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There's the answer - not designed by Thais.

[007 RED]

OP…. You have indicated that your sister was denied boarding at Heathrow Airport and that this is due to her having been deported from the Kingdom some 23 years ago.  You also indicate that she was informed that her case is still pending.

 

With regard to her being denied boarding at Heathrow that was because the Airline (as required) provided her biographical data to the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) which in turn would have relayed her details to both the UK law enforcement agencies and to Thailand immigration, customs and Royal Thai Police special branch.  Each agencies computer system would then check their respective databases to see if she is ‘known’ to them.  The chances are that the immigration database indicated that she has a ban, and as a result, the APIS would provide a feedback code to the airline indicating deny boarding.

 

The APIS feedback code which the airline receives simply indicates accept for boarding or deny boarding, so there is no way the airline would know the reasons for the denial.  I would be very interested to know who informed her that she had been denied boarding because her case is still pending.

 

Whilst it is possible that she was given a ‘life time ban’ 23 years ago, in todays situation, such a ban would be unusual for the offence that she is alleged to have committed.  I suspect that when her records were entered onto the immigration computer system there is a reasonable probability that the clerk doing the input may have entered that incorrect date when the ban was due to expire.  This being the case it will be much easier to resolve.

 

With regards to resolving the problem.  As others have already indicated, unfortunately there is no way that the problem can be sorted this side of Christmas.

 

Some have suggested that you contact a lawyer to help resolve the problem.  The problem with this is that many lawyers will say that they can get it sorted as they have connections in high places within immigration.  Unfortunately, as has all too often reported in this forum Thai lawyers are only interested in sending you large bills.

 

If I was in your situation, I would get a copy of your sister’s passport and go to the immigration headquarters at Suan Plu in Bangkok and plead the case.  They will be able to tell you if she has a ‘life’ ban and if there was an input error (as has been reported by another post some time ago), they will get it corrected fairly quickly.

 

Sorry that your Christmas has been spoilt.  Good luck

[DoktorC]

36 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There's the answer - not designed by Thais.

Not sure what the question was.... but some more answers:   not designed by French, or Australians, or Canadians, or Mexicans, or Russians, or Chinese, or South Koreans, or ..... keep adding whatever you think is humorous..... 

 

kakakakakaka

 

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Happy enough said:

i got caught with exctasy in tonglor about 20 years ago. 500 baht fine and a letter for immo for 2 years.

Could have been worse if you'd ben caught with Ecstasy.

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, Happy enough said:

seems a bit strange getting deported for weed. i got caught with exctasy in tonglor about 20 years ago. 500 baht fine and a letter for immo for 2 years. been in and out ever since with no problems. you sure she didn't do something more serious

You were lucky. It is up to the arresting officer whether to recommend deportation and blacklisting.

[jeab1980]

6 hours ago, 007 RED said:

Sorry, but you are miss quoting yourself.  What you actually said in your post No. 50 was:

 

“Last time I flew out of heathrow last year in December I booked a very very last minute flight 2 hrs before the flight departed to be precise. No way they could have sent anything to immigration here before I left it was 0200 here on a Sunday morning 1900 from UK on a saturday.

So there is more to this than quoted”

 

My response was to inform you that the APIS can, and does, transfer passenger passport details to the destination country even in the case of a last minute booking.

 

FYI - APIS has nothing to do with 90 day reporting.

Which is correct there is no way they could send anything to immigration as they would have been closed. You say there is an automated system in place I will have to take your guess on that one.

[sanemax]

Just now, jeab1980 said:

Which is correct there is no way they could send anything to immigration as they would have been closed. You say there is an automated system in place I will have to take your guess on that one.

They probably do not send it to the Immigration office , because they close at 4 30 PM and dont open to 8 AM .

   It could be that they do it all automatically , or they have a 24 hour office ?

[anon789561]

45 minutes ago, BritTim said:

You were lucky. It is up to the arresting officer whether to recommend deportation and blacklisting.

i was very polite to the police as i knew they had me bang to rights. probably helped

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

Which is correct there is no way they could send anything to immigration as they would have been closed. You say there is an automated system in place I will have to take your guess on that one.

The Immigration Bureau at Suan Phlu is manned and operational 24/7, everyday of the year. The Immigration Bureau does not close!

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

You were lucky. It is up to the arresting officer whether to recommend deportation and blacklisting.

An arresting officer has no power to deport or blacklist anyone, or to lawfully influence either!

[anon789561]

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

An arresting officer has no power to deport or blacklist anyone, or to lawfully influence either!

yeah, i thought it was down to the court. i'm sure the main man in tonglor police station could have advised the court on behaviour. i hadn't actually taken the pill although i intended too but was polite and friendly on arrest. anyway, 5 days or whatever it was in the bloody cell was enough to put me of drugs for life

[jeab1980]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

The Immigration Bureau at Suan Phlu is manned and operational 24/7, everyday of the year. The Immigration Bureau does not close!

If you say so.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

An arresting officer has no power to deport or blacklist anyone, or to lawfully influence either!

Some previous reports stated that the arresting-officer can "recommend" blacklisting or not - so that even if they don't have the final-say, this carried significant weight in that decision.  Some also suggested (perhaps incorrectly), that it was that officer which would be involved in having the blacklisting lifted.  Is that not the case? 

 

I honestly don't know - and willing to accept it was all bar-stool banter, if that's what it was.

 

Granted, the best way to avoid worrying about such things, is to know that Thailand is not the place for the use of any drugs other than alcohol and cigarettes.  Many seem to have the wrong idea.  It would be best for all concerned, if word got out that Spain or Portugal would be a wiser destination, if one intends to use other substances.

Edited December 21, 2017 by JackThompson