Refused boarding at Heathrow to come to Thailand

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

I believe if it were a simple ban from entering Thailand she would not be prevented from boarding the plane in the UK but upon arrival in Thailand would not be allowed to enter. It looks like there is more to it than that.

Thailand since May or so of this year has a system for pre boarding checks. Evidently her record from before has her on that the list of those not allowed entry.

There was a topic a few months ago of person who had been banned for an overstay for one year that was denied boarding even though he had already entered the country once before. He had to arrange for his name to be removed from the no boarding list and has since entered the country.

[crazykopite]

Has she never changed her surname in 23 years by marriage plus passports only last 10 years so that’s 2 + passports or has she never renewed her passport until recently . Sorry to say think your sister will be spending Christmas in the UK

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, BEVUP said:

& what happens if you get a bunch of people who book at the last minute 

They send the postal letter by first class ?

[hawker9000]

5 hours ago, balo said:

 

Good to know,, not even a good lawyer could do much in this case . 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Even five years ago, I would have 100% agreed with you. Things are really different now, for a variety of reasons. The requirement for airlines to provide passenger lists to Thailand in advance allows those on blacklists to be weeded out. These days it is not only the US that is able to stop passengers boarding at their origin.

Though everyone knows it's "possible", this is the first I've ever heard of a Thailand-bound passenger being denied boarding pursuant to it, rather than getting to Suvarnabhumi or some other point of entry and then being denied permission to enter there.

 

Life seems to be getting harder for those who think Thailand is still some kind of free-for-all for drug use and other misbehaviors, and those with a history of it.  Contrary to the whining I KNOW we're now going to hear, I very much doubt that shutting down this segment of the tourist trade is going to hurt the economy much...

 

 

[glegolo]

8 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

 

Life seems to be getting harder for those who think Thailand is still some kind of free-for-all for drug use and other misbehaviors, and those with a history of it.  Contrary to the whining I KNOW we're now going to hear, I very much doubt that shutting down this segment of the tourist trade is going to hurt the economy much...

 

 

I agree 100% better to shut it down completely if possible. These pot-smokers and drug-users are not contributing to Thailands whelfare a bit...

 

glegolo

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, glegolo said:

I agree 100% better to shut it down completely if possible. These pot-smokers and drug-users are not contributing to Thailands whelfare a bit...

 

glegolo

Everything isnt always about money .

Thailand doesnt want drug takers , simple as that .

[hawker9000]

21 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Everything isnt always about money .

Thailand doesnt want drug takers , simple as that .

Mmmm.  Maybe.  I think what they don't want more is to lose some of their foreign assistance which might be based on cooperation in the "War on Drugs", and their international "standing" on all those "lists"...   Pretty much the same story for human trafficking.

 

My only problem with that is the kabuki it tends to precipitate.  Doing things "loudly" and for appearances' sake rather than with genuine substance.  (And, of course, where the aid money actually ends up...)

 

 

 

 

[bkkcanuck8]

There is likely no way to clear this up in the short term - she has been blacklisted.  It is lucky they had the system up and running, because the alternative of arriving and sitting in detention waiting for deportation would have been much worse.  As said, there are legal routes to remove someone from the blacklist -- but drug offences would be very difficult.  If possible it would be better to move the family get together in Da Nang Vietnam or something.  

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Mmmm.  Maybe.  I think what they don't want more is to lose some of their foreign assistance which might be based on cooperation in the "War on Drugs", and their international "standing" on all those "lists"...   Pretty much the same story for human trafficking.

 

My only problem with that is the kabuki it tends to precipitate.  Doing things "loudly" and for appearances' sake rather than with genuine substance.  (And, of course, where the aid money actually ends up...)

As I previously stated, not everything revolves around money , whether it be aid money or money drug takers spend in Thailand on holiday , Thailand just doesnt want people with drug convictions coming to Thailand , maybes its to do with "In with the good, out with the bad" policy

[mtls2005]

Thailand implemented their APPS (Advanced Passenger Processing System) on/about February, 2016.

 

Participating airlines typically transmit a preliminary passenger manifest 24 hours prior to departure to the RTP/Imm. center at Suan Phlu. There the Thai Immigration Bureau will pre-process every passenger arriving, departing or transiting through Thailand and reply back to the airline with boarding directive Such as, “Board if DOCS OK” or “Do not Board”.

 

Other non-participating airlines are required to transmit an actual passenger manifest after departure, which is reviewed for undesirables who would be flagged at arriving immigration.

 

Resolving the underlying issue with Thai Immigration may require some patience. It's not unheard of that names are mixed up. Maybe start with the Royal Thai Embassy in the U.K.?

 

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/New-immigration-screening-system-unveiled-30278217.html

http://www.thai-apps.com/en/about/participate-agencies.html

[hawker9000]

Just now, sanemax said:

As I previously stated, not everything revolves around money , whether it be aid money or money drug takers spend in Thailand on holiday , Thailand just doesnt want people with drug convictions coming to Thailand , maybes its to do with "In with the good, out with the bad" policy

"As I previously stated, not everything revolves around money"

 

Yeah, OK, you stated it.  So?   Does your not merely stating something, but previously stating it as well (oh my!) mean you've been to the mountain and received it on stone tablets or what?  LOL 

 

Oh, all right, almost everything...  Like most other "policy statements", that whole "in with the good, out with the bad" thing is mostly just to feed the xenophobes and the gullible public.   If the "bad" have enough money, they'll have only incrementally more trouble perhaps continuing to find their way "in".  Obviously our heroine here didn't quite make that cut.  That said, a step forward, even a baby step, even a baby step that stomps on less well-to-do druggies, is still a step forward.  If some druggies are persuaded by it to take their crap elsewhere, great!

 

[ravip]

10 hours ago, Danielsiam said:

How Heathrow can access to Thailand Immigration Database ?

 

Or she was denied entry at Bangkok airport ?

 

Really weird, if it was 23 years ago, it will appear nothing on her new passport.

Since when Thailand Immigration share her information to the UK authority.. weird weird, need more explaination

How Heathrow can access to Thailand Immigration Database ?

Immigration Departments of many countries have a computer network that is internationally 'linked'.

 

Edit

e.g. https://www.interpol.int/INTERPOL-expertise/Databases

Edited December 20, 2017 by ravip
Add info

[hawker9000]

7 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Thailand implemented their APPS (Advanced Passenger Processing System) on/about February, 2016.

 

Participating airlines typically transmit a preliminary passenger manifest 24 hours prior to departure to the RTP/Imm. center at Suan Phlu. There the Thai Immigration Bureau will pre-process every passenger arriving, departing or transiting through Thailand and reply back to the airline with boarding directive Such as, “Board if DOCS OK” or “Do not Board”.

 

Other non-participating airlines are required to transmit an actual passenger manifest after departure, which is reviewed for undesirables who would be flagged at arriving immigration.

 

Resolving the underlying issue with Thai Immigration may require some patience. It's not unheard of that names are mixed up. Maybe start with the Royal Thai Embassy in the U.K.?

 

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/New-immigration-screening-system-unveiled-30278217.html

http://www.thai-apps.com/en/about/participate-agencies.html

So which airlines "participate" and which airlines don't?  What's the "mandate" to "participate", if any?  If the vast majority do, or all oceanic or long-haul flights do, I'm impressed.  If just Thai-flagged airlines do, not so much.  "Non-participating" is pretty much just a fancy term for "status-quo".  

 

 

[mtls2005]

10 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

So which airlines "participate" and which airlines don't?  What's the "mandate" to "participate", if any? 

 

No clue, and there is no mandate AFAIK.

 

My guess is that the OP's sister's airline participates.

 

Probably better to be denied boarding at home and avoid spending time in a holding area at SBIA/BKK?

 

Airlines have to apply for a portal account.

 

http://www.thai-apps.com/en/

 

http://www.thai-apps.com/en/about/benefit-from-thailand-apps.html

 

 

I think all airlines (participating and non-participating) must transmit a passenger manifest after departure, and the RTP/Imm. compare that to their list of undesirables in preparation of their arrival at immigration.

[Eff1n2ret]

It sounds a bit like the UK system - although people speak of all rejections from a country as "deportation", most are simply administrative removals effected by the Immigration Service, mostly for offences such as illegal entry or overstaying. Where, however, someone is convicted of a criminal offence they may be made the subject of a deportation order signed by the Home Secretary - this may be on the judge's recommendation, or can be applied automatically if the sentence is more that a year's imprisonment. A subject of a deportation order may not re-enter the UK unless the deportation order is revoked. Otherwise, the order remains in force indefinitely.

The OP's sister was convicted in court and ordered for deportation. If she never applied to have the deportation order revoked, it's still in force and was flagged up by the Advanced Passenger Info system when she tried to embark. She could apply to have the order lifted, but it wouldn't happen quickly and she won't be coming for Christmas. If she really wants to come back to Thailand she should brief a Thai lawyer.

[Mattd]

56 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

So which airlines "participate" and which airlines don't?  What's the "mandate" to "participate", if any?  If the vast majority do, or all oceanic or long-haul flights do, I'm impressed.  If just Thai-flagged airlines do, not so much.  "Non-participating" is pretty much just a fancy term for "status-quo".  

 

 

All airlines that fly in to Thailand must comply.

[new2here]

& what happens if you get a bunch of people who book at the last minute 

In many counties, API may be sent several times. Commonly that's Day of Departure (usually around 24hrs before) and again once formal check-in has closed.

Most carriers close check in around :60 to :45 before departure, so this still gives the origin country time to sent the revised batch file and for the receiving country time to re-scrub the finalized list- which really tends to be a very close mirror to the first/earlier transmission.

Since scrubbing is done on an automated basis, it can be done quickly and still not create an OTD delay scenario. Only possible inadmissible pax would be flagged by the system and usually a human double checks the flag to insure its correctly applied.



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[DefaultName]

Seems a petty thing to get a lifetime ban for.

 

Having said that, and without commenting on the right or wrong of the ban, well done Thailand for stopping this before boarding.  MUCH easier on all involved, and especially on the lady herself - Christmas in Immigration detention doesn't sound like fun at all.

[thaipo7]

After my service time ending in Jan 72, I came back as an unemployed civilian and stayed for 13 months.  I had to leave the kingdom every 90 days.  Came back in 1978 and had to go to Bangkok Immigration and the clerk walked into this room with papers stacked all over the place and in a minute she found my complete records from 72 and 73 when I was here running around unemployed.  Amazing how this was done 5 years later.  No computers then. 

[jeab1980]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

Even five years ago, I would have 100% agreed with you. Things are really different now, for a variety of reasons. The requirement for airlines to provide passenger lists to Thailand in advance allows those on blacklists to be weeded out. These days it is not only the US that is able to stop passengers boarding at their origin.

Last time I flew out of heathrow last year in December I booked a very very last minute flight 2 hrs before the flight departed to be precise. No way they could have sent anything to immigration here before I left it was 0200 here on a Sunday morning 1900 from UK on a saturday.

So there is more to this than quoted

[SunsetT]

4 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

 

Though everyone knows it's "possible", this is the first I've ever heard of a Thailand-bound passenger being denied boarding pursuant to it, rather than getting to Suvarnabhumi or some other point of entry and then being denied permission to enter there.

 

Life seems to be getting harder for those who think Thailand is still some kind of free-for-all for drug use and other misbehaviors, and those with a history of it.  Contrary to the whining I KNOW we're now going to hear, I very much doubt that shutting down this segment of the tourist trade is going to hurt the economy much...

 

 

Better and much cheaper to be refused boarding at home than refused entry at Swampy.

 

[alex8912]

14 hours ago, pieeyed said:

Sounds like BS. 23 years ago they did not even know what a computer was. How would they know she was busted?

Do you really think computers were not invented by December 1994?? Several posts after yours mention it as well!  When you traveled to Thailand then I guess immigration held up your passport next to your face and if it was a close visual match they reached for a stone tablet and put a mark next to your name.  I am dumbfounded by how many people liked these posts. 

[sanemax]

25 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Last time I flew out of heathrow last year in December I booked a very very last minute flight 2 hrs before the flight departed to be precise. No way they could have sent anything to immigration here before I left it was 0200 here on a Sunday morning 1900 from UK on a saturday.

So there is more to this than quoted

Its quite possible that the immigration work 24/7 when dealing with incoming passenger screening and info can be sent instantly through computers these days

[SunsetT]

8 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Do you really think computers were not invented by December 1994?? Several posts after yours mention it as well!  When you traveled to Thailand then I guess immigration held up your passport next to your face and if it was a close visual match they reached for a stone tablet and put a mark next to your name.  I am dumbfounded by how many people liked these posts. 

.......You do realise that you are on a Thai expat forum dont you?............!

Edited December 20, 2017 by SunsetT

[alex8912]

1 minute ago, SunsetT said:

.......But you do realise that you are on an expat forum dont you?............!

Yes lol makes me in my very early 50's feel like a teenager at times on here!! 

[roobaa01]

the op mentioned his sister had paid a fine of thb 50 k that was 23 years ago a lot of money in thailand . 50 k today is about 150 k meaning his sister must have committed a heavier crime than merely just having a smoke.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Mattd]

14 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

the op mentioned his sister had paid a fine of thb 50 k that was 23 years ago a lot of money in thailand . 50 k today is about 150 k meaning his sister must have committed a heavier crime than merely just having a smoke.

 

wbr

roobaa01

The way I understood it was she was fined 2,400 THB, despite paying 50,000 under the table?

[Mattd]

31 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Its quite possible that the immigration work 24/7 when dealing with incoming passenger screening and info can be sent instantly through computers these days

I would imagine that it is probably automated, i.e. cross references name, Nationality and DOB against a list of those banned from entry, so would be pretty instant.

[007 RED]

2 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

Last time I flew out of heathrow last year in December I booked a very very last minute flight 2 hrs before the flight departed to be precise. No way they could have sent anything to immigration here before I left it was 0200 here on a Sunday morning 1900 from UK on a saturday.

So there is more to this than quoted

Sorry to disappoint you but you were checked before you boarded the plane.

 

When you made your booking, even 2 hours before departure, the airline either asked for your passport details, or if you were an existing customer they already had the info in their system. 

 

The airline booking system would then have automatically passed your passport details to the APIS in the UK which in turn would passed it onto the APIS server in Thailand. 

 

The APIS server in Thailand will then pass your passport info to the immigration system, the customs system and the RTP – special branch system.  Each of these systems would then automatically compare your passport info against that held within their respective database. 

 

Each system (immigration/customs/special branch) will then return code to the APIS server in Thailand indicating that you are OK to board or not.  After receiving all three check codes from the respective systems the Thailand APIS server  relays a code back to the APIS in the UK which in turn passes the code back to the airline. 

 

FYI - The code, if refuse boarding, does not give any reason why.

 

The whole process is fully automatic and completed in only a few seconds.

 

International airlines who fly into any one of the 26 countries currently operating the APIS will not allow a passenger to board/fly without an approval code from the destination country as they will be fined very heavily and liable for the costs in returning the passenger to the point of departure.

[natway09]

As a foreigner banned for life from entering the US under the same circumstances.

Who stopped her ?