Trump threatens to cut aid to U.N. members over Jerusalem vote

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

Just so you know, the US has enough of it's oil and even export some out,

beside, the UN is a dinosaur that it's time and relevancy has passed,

if they want the 500 million dollars the US contribute every year, don't

vote against them, as they say, the man with the money is the man

with the powers, ask any billionaire....

 

If the UN is irrelevant, why does the USA keep funding it, and why does Trump make such a big deal of the vote?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, doggie1955 said:

What America needs to do is pull out of the U.N. and move the U.N. to a different country.

 

 

The presence of the UN in country is worth about 4 billion dollars annually and provides thousands of jobs for Americans.

[Morch]

40 minutes ago, pegman said:

Shove your money up your ___! Same with all your over priced smart phones, fast food joints and Walmarts. 

 

Worth bearing in mind for the next time you claim to be "unbiased"....

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Who on here was saying the USA is not bullying and forcing countries to vote the way the USA wants?

 

The UN member countries are free to vote how they wish. The US is free to place it's embassies where it wants.

 

Similarly the US, and other aid providing countries, are free to decide who to giver their money and help to and who not.

 

Too many nations have been greedily grabbing any aid available, and not always spending it wisely whilst slagging off the generous givers or even worse conspiring against them and facilitating terrorism.

 

Dopey old UK gives millions to Pakistan. And Pakistan, that hotbed of terrorism and muslim radicalisation goes off and buys Chinese fighter jets. 

 

Time the liberalized Western developed nations woke up.

[punchjudy]

USA = Guilty of Bribery & Intimidation

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, mercman24 said:

those oil rich arab states should counter by  threatening to blockade oil supplies to the USA that would bring this country to its knees in one month, once again this loud mouthed bully has opened his gob without thinking this out ha ha , go on , do it , ?? he will be shitting his pants

Doubt it. The USA is now the largest oil producer in the world because of shale oil.

[Morch]

Trump's diplomacy "skills" seem to oscillate between acting as a petulant child and a schoolyard bully. Hard not to see Bannon fingerprints all over this, whether or not in office. Got to wonder how Tillerson, Mattis and Kelly stomach these things on a daily basis.

 

If Trump's threats are hollow or will not be followed through, then they are worse than useless. If he does intend to act on it, an altogether different set of issues, almost non having an upside. Pretty much shooting USA interests in foot either way.

 

I get it that Trump, and probably many Americans (not excluding previous presidents) feel frustrated by the UN often being less appreciative of USA positions, especially seeing who foots a large portion of the bills, or the fact that the USA does provide a whole lot of aid internationally. But there are ways to go about correcting this or raising the issue which do not involve lowering the country's standards into what passes for Trump's "foreign policy".

 

Another indication the USA is led by an unhinged person, lacking both modicum and the ability to deal with reality in an adult manner.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, punchjudy said:

USA = Guilty of Bribery & Intimidation

 

Does the same apply for Arab countries using oil as an economic measure to coerce votes? The USSR's coercion of satellite states tagging the party line? Or is it just the USA (or rather, the USA under Trump's administration) that "deserves" such decisive criticism?

[KarenBravo]

32 minutes ago, kawika4058 said:

I agree the US should pull out of the UN, have it moved somewhere else. We should all so cut  our foreign aid to all Arab country who take our money then vote against us.  Why are giving money to terrorist states in the first place? They have been abusing our generosity for far too long. If they don't need us, we sure as hell don't need them.

Picked your post to comment on, but, it could have been one of the many that shows ignorance about what foreign aid is.

You seem to think that US aid just hands over a big stash of cash. Nope, it doesn't work that way.

Aid from the US (as opposed to Chinese aid) has strings attached. It is part and parcel of diplomacy. Much of the aid has stipulations that it must be spent on American goods, or services. Without that aid and conditions, US companies would go bankrupt and workers would be out of a job.

No country is altruistic, they all act in their own self interests. Better to think of aid as more of a bribe than a gift. Some times it's linked to improving US business (US arms sales), human rights, or getting countries to vote a certain way.

Aid is just another tool in the arsenal of diplomacy and foreign affairs.

 

Ever been to Africa in the last 10 years? The Chinese are everywhere. Building ports, hospitals, roads and throwing cash at the governments. Why do many of these African countries love Chinese aid? Because there are no human rights strings attached. Meanwhile, the Chinese strip the African countries of all their minerals.

Edited December 21, 2017 by KarenBravo

[klauskunkel]

shouldn't the U.S. have provided a clause included with their aid payments stating that whoever receives such payments has to vote the way the U.S. wants, who is after all the Champion of all Things Democratic?  Vote buying...

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

The USA is allowed to decide where it puts its embassy. The statement on its embassy by the USA has not changed the status quo, as the embassy would be in western Jerusalem which supposedly the UN  recognizes as Israel.

 

The USA isn't. On the contrary, it's the Arab world pushing the weaklings around all to the glee of  China and Russia.

 

The USA makes alot of money off the UN and New York would suffer financially. I believe the impact  is 8,000+ jobs and  about US$4 billion. 

 

Good. Wait until the Chinese have to cough up the money. China is cheap. Remember the Ebola epidemic?  Africa and  the EU were saved from a  killer epidemic because Canada, the USA and the EU put up the emergency funds. China and Russia sent their best wishes and hot air.

 

"The USA isn't. On the contrary, it's the Arab world pushing the weaklings around all to the glee of  China and Russia."

Nonsense, this topic is about the USA telling others to vote as the USA wants, or else ...

 

So don't tell us the USA isn't telling others to vote as the USA wants, because that is a blatant lie.

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The UN member countries are free to vote how they wish. The US is free to place it's embassies where it wants.

 

Similarly the US, and other aid providing countries, are free to decide who to giver their money and help to and who not.

 

Too many nations have been greedily grabbing any aid available, and not always spending it wisely whilst slagging off the generous givers or even worse conspiring against them and facilitating terrorism.

 

Dopey old UK gives millions to Pakistan. And Pakistan, that hotbed of terrorism and muslim radicalisation goes off and buys Chinese fighter jets. 

 

Time the liberalized Western developed nations woke up.

Nothing to do with my comment.

[pegman]

46 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

If the OP was standard behavior and practice for the USA and POTUS, it wouldn't have made much of a story or a headline. That it does, indicates that this too, is a deviation from how things used to get done. Trying to paint it as if the OP reflects or applies as a general statement on USA diplomacy is misleading.

Wrong, this is all a rerun of Bush the Younger's years.

[stevenl]

49 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

If the OP was standard behavior and practice for the USA and POTUS, it wouldn't have made much of a story or a headline. That it does, indicates that this too, is a deviation from how things used to get done. Trying to paint it as if the OP reflects or applies as a general statement on USA diplomacy is misleading.

Wrong. It is standard behaviour, but normally done through diplomatic channels. Just Trump is dumb enough to put it out in the open.

 

The only thing misleading here is your post.

[DM07]

Do it, you butthole of a human being!

Do it!

Don't threaten!

Do it!

And see how you and your MAGA- friends like it, if you are getting more an more isolated on the world stage!

 

[retarius]

Hold a secret ballot. Problem solved.

[retarius]

This has been a really great debate on here. 

 

My twopenn'orth: 

1) The US is way behind with its payments to the UN and owes billions of dollars, despite the economy benefitting by about $5 billion a year by having the UN in NYC

2) Aid is many things, but all to often support for NGOs to undermine the stability of government's the US doesn't like anyway; soft loans to buy US military hardware

3) US aid is a tiny fraction of GDP, much smaller than many other countries....$25 billion this year from a $20 trillion GDP.

4) the biggest single recipient of US aid is Israel at over $4 billion...most of it military aid.

5) the second biggest is Egypt, where the aid is given illegally under US law which states that military aid may not be given to perpetrators of a military coup.

 

A commenter above demonstrated the difference between no-strings attached Chinese aid which builds hospitals and port and the like in Africa in return for access to natural resources, and Aid from the US which is often military in nature (soft loans to buy US guns and bombs) and often has strings with human rights and the like.

 

I would request the UN make the vote a secret ballot.

[tonray]

2 minutes ago, retarius said:

no-strings attached Chinese aid which builds hospitals and port and the like in Africa in return for access to natural resources

That would not meet the definition of 'no-strings' attached I'm afraid.

[KarenBravo]

Just now, tonray said:

That would not meet the definition of 'no-strings' attached I'm afraid.

OK, there are no pesky strings attached like human rights, or democracy promotion. Happy now?

[samran]

Just making it easier for Chinese, Russian and Saudi cash to take its place.

 

Not sure how this benefits US interests and influence globally.

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Dopey old UK gives millions to Pakistan. And Pakistan, that hotbed of terrorism and muslim radicalisation goes off and buys Chinese fighter jets. 

Because the fighter jets from the 'dopey old UK' are a) Too expensive and b ) The UK has an extensive military aircraft program with India, which the Indians will stop if the UK supplies any of this hardware to Pakistan. The only 4th/5th generation aircraft that Pakistan can buy are Russia and China and even Russia is now almost off the list due to the Indians buying so much Russian armour.

 

The USA does not pay 'aid'. It pays to be given trouble free access to deploy it's military around the world to protect it's own national interests and it pays to enable the USA to benefit from completely biased trade deals. Be careful Donald.

 

Here is a typical non-military aid program from the USA for one (now many)country in Africa. In exchange for the heads of Government receiving large bribes the country must import US grain to plant on the farms. The US grain is priced at one third the price of what can be achieved locally in Africa. The African grain growers soon go out of business and their capability to grow/manufacture collapses. The entire farming community then have to use the US grain (Monsanto), once 100% usage is established, the US puts its grain prices up higher than what the Africans could supply it at themselves originally. The Africans now have no choice but to buy it and the poor population are squeezed for every single dollar even harder, thereby ensuring neither the country nor the population can ever develop.  US aid - keep it, don't buy the food stuffs and kick out the US military from their squatting. The respective countries would soon be economically better off and far more secure. 

 

US arms and oil are way over priced and there are plenty of other places for a country to go shopping for both. China will be delighted to pick up the aid contributions and take over the US military locations and the trade deals. Go for it Donald, Make Asia Great Again! Now who's 'dopey'!

Edited December 21, 2017 by Andaman Al

[habanero]

2 hours ago, mercman24 said:

those oil rich arab states should counter by  threatening to blockade oil supplies to the USA that would bring this country to its knees in one month, once again this loud mouthed bully has opened his gob without thinking this out ha ha , go on , do it , ?? he will be shitting his pants

Yup, that will do it.  555

United States remained the world's top producer of petroleum and natural gas hydrocarbons in 2015, according to U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates. U.S. petroleum and natural gas production first surpassed Russia in 2012, and the United States has been the world's top producer of natural gas since 2011 and the world's top producer of petroleum hydrocarbons since 2013.

For the United States and Russia, total petroleum and natural gas hydrocarbon production, in energy content terms, is almost evenly split between petroleum and natural gas. Saudi Arabia's production, on the other hand, heavily favors petroleum. Total petroleum production is made up of several different types of liquid fuels, including crude oil and lease condensate, tight oil, extra-heavy oil, and bitumen. In addition, various processes produce natural gas plant liquids (NGPL), biofuels, and refinery processing gain, among other possible liquid fuels.

In the United States, crude oil and lease condensate accounted for roughly 60% of the total petroleum hydrocarbon production in 2015. An additional 20% of the U.S. production was natural gas plant liquids. Biofuels and refinery processing gain make up most of the remaining U.S. petroleum and other liquids production volumes

[habanero]

2 hours ago, tonray said:

...Nero fiddles while China assumes global leadership........

It must be all the quality products they produce.

[pegman]

45 minutes ago, retarius said:

Hold a secret ballot. Problem solved.

But when the results are announced as 191-2 is there a mystery?

[KarenBravo]

7 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Because the fighter jets from the 'dopey old UK' are a) Too expensive and b ) The UK has an extensive military aircraft program with India, which the Indians will stop if the UK supplies any of this hardware to Pakistan. The only 4th/5th generation aircraft that Pakistan can buy are Russia and China and even Russia is now almost off the list due to the Indians buying so much Russian armour.

Pakistan has always bought fighter planes from Europe and the USA (and a few Chinese). They have not bought British in decades.

India buys it's fighter planes mainly from Russia with a few French and British. The UK does not have an extensive military program with India.

[FritsSikkink]

Let everybody stop buying US weapons and they are broke in no time.

[spidermike007]

I am 13 years old. I have never matured past that. I am still a bully, and I am rich. And now that I am president, I am very powerful too. Nah, nah, nah nah nah. You cannot mess with me. Do you have any idea how tough I am? Well, not physically. If you gave me just a light slap with the back of your hand, I would go down like a whimpering baby. But, verbally I am the toughest man in the land. Nobody messes with me. So, I am taking names. Just like I did in high school. You will see how vengeful and hateful I can be. Just watch. You will see. Nobody messes with me. I am dangerous don. I am terrible trump. My latest threat is going to be just terrific. Everyone will get in line, and nobody will talk back to our country, which is becoming great again. I did it. All by myself. I am the greatest president ever. You cannot help but love me. What is not to love about me? I am huuuuge. I am tremennnnndous. 

[chuang]

Why is the world crying about Jerusalem...China claims almost all the South China Sea and the world keep numb...

[FritsSikkink]

7 minutes ago, chuang said:

Why is the world crying about Jerusalem...China claims almost all the South China Sea and the world keep numb...

Shouldn't have called it China sea

[Andaman Al]

35 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

Pakistan has always bought fighter planes from Europe and the USA (and a few Chinese). They have not bought British in decades.

India buys it's fighter planes mainly from Russia with a few French and British. The UK does not have an extensive military program with India.

Tsk tsk, learn to read. I said "The UK has an extensive military aircraft PROGRAM  with India".  Not only do we still have over 100 of our fast jet trainer aircraft there, they are still built under licence there, and maybe the young pilots I taught to fly fast jets and move on to the Mig 29 and SU 30 were not Indian Air Force or maybe I forgot and am not British? I know EXACTLY what Pakistan will buy and what they wanted to buy and the prices of all candidates and specs AND the politics at play, because one of my companies is involved in discussions to supply the logistics for them. I also know exactly what the UK are 'desirable of doing' and what they will and will not do if it means bringing any jeopardy to the long term potential programs.  "Googleilligence" isn't all it is made out to be, and instead of addressing the points in my post that relate to Trump and the UN, you try to be yet another internet expert on everything - yet nothing.