Pattaya: Chinese tour guide dead after tourist enrages elephant by pulling tail

[Catoni]

19 minutes ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

You cannot domesticate an elephant without the use of torture.  An elephant is not a fat horse.  When was the last time you saw a dog being strapped down and beaten, cut, stabbed, to 'domesticate' it?

 

If the elephant was born in captivity it might not need to go through the full severity of the breaking the spirit process, but it will still need to be abused on a daily basis (the ear hook being the weapon of choice) to 'train' it.  That's why you see so many elephants with holes in their ears and blood around the ears.

 

Living in the wild, eating and doing elephant things is not 'brutal'.  Dragging around ignorant tourists for hours every day is.

 

By your logic, let's capture you and lock you in a prison, and make you work all day, every day.  After all real life is brutal so you should prefer the prison, right?

       Are you also aware of the "breaking" of horses to the saddle and rider ?  The use of sharp spurs in the past? 

  We still "break" horses to the saddle and rider, but we no longer beat and use sharp spurs in the west

  on our "...fat.." [sic]  horses... 

     There are lots of elephants these days that are trained without brutality.  It's not like it was fifty years ago. Animal welfare people are all over the world now... in almost every country perhaps except for the socialist worker's paradise utopia of North Korea.

     Your analogy of real life for us in the world,  to life in prison, is one of the worst analogies I have read in quite some time. Only the Global Warming Alarmists have come up with worse. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Catoni
Correction

[Catoni]

28 minutes ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

 

The only way they will let any human near them is if they are tortured (usually as a baby) to 'break their spirit'.

 

"They don't mind" - how do you know?  I suspect their obedience is more to do with their awareness of a sharp metal hook just behind their ear.

     What....  like sharp metal spurs and a whip to a horse?  (Haven't been used in years.)     If an elephant is at least as smart as a horse... (they might be smarter) then they can be trained without whips or sharp things....

      We got rid of those things in training our horses and dogs.... I'm sure we can also train elephants if they they are as intelligent at least as much as a horse. 

[Henrik Andersen]

I am sure government choose to kill the elefant but in my mind it is the stupid tourist there have to go jail for 2 degree murder 

To the brave guide RIP 

[evadgib]

Has the 'tail' lark been independently verified or is this the usual deflection away from the actual cause? At 17 years old my suspicions are that this male elephant shouldn't have been anywhere near tourists...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musth

Edited December 22, 2017 by evadgib

[NextStationBangkok]

2 hours ago, Toscano said:

Chinese tourists to Thailand are note for their rudeness and bad behavior . 

World famous buffet video made to the Time Magazine : The Shrimp diggers!

[MW72]

1 hour ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

 

Khao Yai national park is full of wild elephants and there are armed guards patrolling the jungle 24 hours a day.  It's the same for many of the other national parks and wildlife sanctuaries where there are tigers, bears and elephants.

 

Your argument that animals should be locked in captivity in case they get sick is very stupid.  They managed fine for millions of years without vets.

 

And female asian elephants don't have tusks, nor do a lot of the males.  They're not the same as their african cousins.

Totally agree. The sick ones die out and don't reproduce making the gene pool stronger which is better for the survival of the species.

 

Anyone who cared about their welfare wouldn't want them locked up and beaten into submission then forced to carry strangers on their back every day of their lives. Comparing them to domesticated cats & dogs is ridiculous.

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, Catoni said:

     let 'em roam freely...poachers take them for their tusks...and if they get sick...there's no vetenarian to treat them.

 

 They don't mind working with people and giving people rides as long as the people are friendly and don't start annoying them. 

   Same as a horse, dog or cat.....   be kind and caring... they can be wonderful companions.... annoy them or treat them wrong... they can turn on you 

Yes I'm all for letting animals be free in their own habitat too but Catoni you do have a valid point. Game Hunters and poachers already do damage with high powered rifles and the like. I cannot understand why some tourists could be so brain lame? I mean, whats the point of pulling an elephant's tail anyway...what did the tourist expect? My condolences to the guides family.

Edited December 22, 2017 by TKDfella

[Lingba]

what a <deleted> idiot..absolutely sick and stupid..that tourist should be paying for all the expenses of the funeral et al of that tour guide

[WHYWHY]

R.I.P 

But can't blame the Elephant for the stupidity of the tourist.

I just hope the Elephant is put out too pasture to live its life in peace 

[Russell17au]

2 hours ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

 

Khao Yai national park is full of wild elephants and there are armed guards patrolling the jungle 24 hours a day.  It's the same for many of the other national parks and wildlife sanctuaries where there are tigers, bears and elephants.

 

Your argument that animals should be locked in captivity in case they get sick is very stupid.  They managed fine for millions of years without vets.

 

And female asian elephants don't have tusks, nor do a lot of the males.  They're not the same as their african cousins.

rubbish. Check your facts. The males Asian Elephant do have tusks

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Toscano said:

Chinese tourists to Thailand are note for their rudeness and bad behavior . 

 

Case in point - the small hotel I often use in Bkk got into the Chinese group tour business maybe 3 years back, after 3 months they withdrew.

 

Continuous incidents involving blatant severe rudeness, refusing to allow other guests near the breakfast buffet, leave rooms filthy dirty, sheets and towels stained and had to be thrown away, yelling from one end of the corridor to the other 24 hrs, refusal to pay for laundry and room service food and drinks, and more.

 

In one incident a middle aged Chinese woman smacked the face of a waitress in the hotel restaurant, the waitress was delivering a special order drink to another customer, but the Chinese woman demanded that she take it. The waitress tried to explain and pointed to the customer who ordered the drink who in turn told the errant woman in Chinese that it was her specific order. In the meantime many of the Chinese tourists abused the young Thai waitress, including another Chinese middle aged woman kicking the waitress in her lower legs. 

 

Hotel owner decided the extra costs, loss of other regular customers, staff upset / staff walking out etc., was bigger than the income from the group tours, and withdrew. 

 

On the other hand I have gone in and out of China maybe 20 times on consulting projects and I never ever saw anything even remotely like the behaviors above. 

[natway09]

Another Chinese tourist behaving badly..... Just ban them all !!!!! errr  train,,,, sorry Sir

[Russell17au]

8 minutes ago, dogpatch55 said:

The way they train these elephants is cruel and belongs in the past..   It should not be allowed now!   Anyone who thinks it should is a moron and too stupid for words!

What about cock fights, dog fights, horse racing, harness racing, rodeo's, greyhound racing or the English gentlemen's sport of fox hunting and what about the Olympic sport of show jumping. If you follow or support any of these then you are also a moron and too stupid for words because they all have animal cruelty involved in the training or the performance of these animals

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

Does it matter?

I want to know, is that wrong?

[connda]

A Chinese tour guide was killed by an elephant yesterday after a tourist "behaving badly" enraged an elephant at a Patty camp.

And the bad, bad, bad tourist was an expert on elephant behavior.  Where were the mahouts to control this massive wild animal?  Blame the tourists again.  The average city dweller has no idea how to act around these animals.  Absolutely yes! People are dumb as a box of rocks - but the trainers are 100% responsible for allowing anyone to interact with the animal. 

Let use another analogy.  A tourist comes to an airfield to take a trip on a Cessna 152. The passenger starts playing with the elevators and ailerons, and the controls in the cockpit.  The pilot ignores the passenger.  The plane crashes - who is at fault? 

[wavemanwww]

The Chinese guy was just testing the meat. Again another aphrodisiac just like the tigers in a recent article. Chinese only think FOOD 1st. Not about endangered species. Good quality tourists!

[Rimmer]

Multiple off topic posts, troll posts flames and racist slurs have been removed

[smudger1951]

I wonder what reaction the tourist expected when he pulled its tail. Let's just hope the elephant does'nt pay too high a price for the provacation.

[Thingamabob]

The person who pulled the elephant's tail should be jailed for a long time. Scumbag.

[Spock]

2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

What about cock fights, dog fights, horse racing, harness racing, rodeo's, greyhound racing or the English gentlemen's sport of fox hunting and what about the Olympic sport of show jumping. If you follow or support any of these then you are also a moron and too stupid for words because they all have animal cruelty involved in the training or the performance of these animals

Which doesn't condone yet another form of animal cruelty involved in training an elephant. Elephants are also not meant to be physiologically designed to carry large weights on their backs. Nevertheless, maybe many wouldn't exist without their role in human enslavement or entertainment. They can't all be wandering around national parks, nature and retirement reserves.

[Russell17au]

17 minutes ago, Spock said:

Which doesn't condone yet another form of animal cruelty involved in training an elephant. Elephants are also not meant to be physiologically designed to carry large weights on their backs. Nevertheless, maybe many wouldn't exist without their role in human enslavement or entertainment. They can't all be wandering around national parks, nature and retirement reserves.

I was not making excuses for the treatment of elephants but I was pointing out to this person that wants to class every one as morons and stupid that there are other acts of animal cruelty that is also done for the entertainment of humans and it is not only in Thailand.

That is right many would not exist if it was not for humans, take the elephants here in Asia, they have been used for decades as a work horse to be able to get into places that nothing else can access. So for a person to brand every one as morons and too stupid for words, then I would be interested if he ever placed a bet on a horse race or any of the other animal cruelty things that I mentioned. If he did then he is a hypocrite and he is also a moron and too stupid for words

[jaywalker]

Yes an idiot move by the tail puller. Too stupid for words, but I'm just curious who would feed the elephants if they were all turned loose?

 

Any bleeding hearts care to volunteer?

[Airbagwill]

If you can ride them they are being exploited.

So none of the tragic events that happened should have been going on.....and some poor bigger has paid with their life. Shameful!

[cookieqw]

7 hours ago, Catoni said:

     let 'em roam freely...poachers take them for their tusks...and if they get sick...there's no vetenarian to treat them.

 

 They don't mind working with people and giving people rides as long as the people are friendly and don't start annoying them. 

   Same as a horse, dog or cat.....   be kind and caring... they can be wonderful companions.... annoy them or treat them wrong... they can turn on you 

These elephants are broken in the most evil way, I suggest you google it !

[Airbagwill]

28 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

Yes an idiot move by the tail puller. Too stupid for words, but I'm just curious who would feed the elephants if they were all turned loose?

 

Any bleeding hearts care to volunteer?

I don't think you have thought about this very much.

Captive elephants aren't just "turned loose " they are housed in large sanctuaries where they can live a close to natural situation. I'd play are simply  released back into the wild they will almost certainly end up in conflict with humans.

If you want to know how elephants are  trained to work in these tourist camps, just Google "the crush"

[jaywalker]

7 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Captive elephants aren't just "turned loose " they are housed in large sanctuaries where they can live a close to natural situation. I'd play are simply  released back into the wild they will almost certainly end up in conflict with humans.

Sounds good. 

 

I'd wager most of the bleeding hearts never think about how much an elephant eats though.

[Airbagwill]

1 minute ago, jaywalker said:

Sounds good. 

 

I'd wager most of the bleeding hearts never think about how much an elephant eats though.

Your choice of cliche betrays you lack of understanding of the situation.

What do you think they eat?

[Airbagwill]

7 hours ago, Catoni said:

     let 'em roam freely...poachers take them for their tusks...and if they get sick...there's no vetenarian to treat them.

 

 They don't mind working with people and giving people rides as long as the people are friendly and don't start annoying them. 

   Same as a horse, dog or cat.....   be kind and caring... they can be wonderful companions.... annoy them or treat them wrong... they can turn on you 

" They don't mind working with people and giving people rides as long as the people are friendly and don't start annoying them. "

A profoundly ill informed assumption.

Elephants are not even domesticated animals like cats and dogs.their behaviour is achieved by fear. Trying to anthropomorphic an eye plants psyche is just plain daft

[Gracas]

It should be remembered that pulling an Elephants tail, or poking a Tiger with a stick is not the same as poking the Pillsbury Doughboy. The result can be quiet unexpected.

[cookieqw]

So much for the safety guy, I never get much closer than this