buying a house and owning it as a foreigner - transfer info - Pattaya

[lingchai]

Hi

I have bought and finished paying for my house in Pattaya

I now have to transfer which because I cannot own 100% of the house,I have to create a company to do this

any recommendations on agents to do this?

[Peterw42]

A Lawyer will be able to set-up a company for you, not an agent. You will only own 49% of the company. The exercise will probably cost you transfer fees again, the same fees you would have paid the first time you bought and paid for the house.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Peterw42

[ferguston]

I can recommend APP - Accounting Pro Plus. - Thepprasit Road Tel 038300071.

Ask to speak to "Pink".

The office is on the same side where the weekend market is held.

[everett kendall]

You will need a minimum of 2 Thai in the company. These are members do not receive income from you. They can be Thai friends, relatives or clerks in the law firm between them they will own 51% of the company.

 

 

[Delight]

   I read that in fact a foreigner can own 100% of a house.

They simply cannot own the land that the house sits on.

 

This sounds logical

 

Therefore -is there any benefit for the OP to organise the ownership of the land and the ownership of the house as seperate entities?

[dotpoom]

The average condo building have offices that can set up a Company, used them myself....average price 25,000 Bt....If property valued at under 1MB can get for 15,000 Bt. (that's my experience anyway).

[Cricky]

‘I have bought and finished paying for my house in Pattaya’

 

Who have you paid money too?

You have paid money, what name is the house title in?

Don’t pay anything before your set up.

Steer clear of Company ownership if possible, there are far better options.

[Henricus]

Pattaya International Law Center pm me for more details

[Thaidream]

A foreigner cannot legally own land in Thailand and no land office will issue a Chanot in a foreigner's name. I have had several houses and land in Thailand all registered to my wife and have had to sign statements indicating I had no interest in the land. However, a will can be made up in which a foreigner can inherit but then has one year to sell the land.  If unsold, I believe the Thai Government then buys it at the assessed tax value which will be much lower than the actual value. Be careful, there  is a lot of bad info out there and unscrupulous lawyers and others who will try and convince you that you are the owner- Only a Thai can be the actual owner.

[tryasimight]

As we know that setting up a company purely for the purpose of owning land is illegal. This will end in tears and a very depleted bank balance is my prediction.

 

Please keep us posted about how it all goes.

Edited January 8, 2018 by tryasimight

[Wake Up]

I have been told the Thai national anthem has a verse that translates into English that Thai people own every inch of Thailand. If true this is all you need to know about whether you can own land in Thailand. 

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, Delight said:

   I read that in fact a foreigner can own 100% of a house.

They simply cannot own the land that the house sits on.

 

This sounds logical

 

Therefore -is there any benefit for the OP to organise the ownership of the land and the ownership of the house as seperate entities?

To my knowledge you cannot separate house ownership from land, if it's already registered together.

 

The way a foreigner can own a house – but not the land under it, which shall be leased and/or superficies agreement – is the either build the house with all permission and contracts in the foreigners name, or to buy a house that is already separated ownership from the land.

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, everett kendall said:

You will need a minimum of 2 Thai in the company. These are members do not receive income from you. They can be Thai friends, relatives or clerks in the law firm between them they will own 51% of the company.

Nominee or proxy shareholders are not allowed anymore (changed years ago, when changing from minimum 7 shareholders to minimum 3 shareholders in a Co. ltd. The 51% Thai shareholder(s) may need (shall) to show proof of funds.

 

You only need one Thai shareholder – three shareholders in total – but the Thai national(s) shall own 51% of the company's shares.

 

An experienced property lawyer will know what way to make the right set-up accordingly with present Laws...

[JayBird]

I could be wrong, but I read somewhere that a foreigner who invested 40million THB can get permission to buy a house (including land) and not as a company.

 

I believe it had to be government savings bonds or similar.

 

I only read this once and it could be wrong or old information. Given the amount needed i suspect not many have tried.

 

Buy logically I would suspect there is some mechanism for HNW individuals to purchase villas that cost over 100m THB

[Delight]

14 minutes ago, JayBird said:

I could be wrong, but I read somewhere that a foreigner who invested 40million THB can get permission to buy a house (including land) and not as a company.

 

I believe it had to be government savings bonds or similar.

 

I only read this once and it could be wrong or old information. Given the amount needed i suspect not many have tried.

 

Buy logically I would suspect there is some mechanism for HNW individuals to purchase villas that cost over 100m THB

 You spend 40 million  Baht -you get 1 rai of land.

 

Suspect that this is of interest to those who intend to build  a car factory or similar

 

[prism]

5 hours ago, ferguston said:

I can recommend APP - Accounting Pro Plus. - Thepprasit Road Tel 038300071.

Ask to speak to "Pink".

The office is on the same side where the weekend market is held.

I used her services a few years ago to set up a company. I recommend her too.  

[simoh1490]

40 million baht for 1 Rai is the Thai BOI scheme.

 

You cannot separate the land from the house from a farang ownership perspective, you could try with a new build but the Land Office wont play ball.

 

Best you can do is to have a Thai own the land then take an usufruct on the house, that works well.

[anfh]

Setting up a company withe sole purpose of owning the land a house sits on is now illegal . 

I am sure there are companies that will do it for you but I would be careful on this.

 

[simoh1490]

18 minutes ago, anfh said:

Setting up a company withe sole purpose of owning the land a house sits on is now illegal . 

I am sure there are companies that will do it for you but I would be careful on this.

 

The Land Office has been actively searching out these companies and forcing ownership changes for at least four years. I've had friends in CM who have each been given 6 months to change the aranagements or the land would revert to the previous owner.

Edited January 8, 2018 by simoh1490

[dpdp]

5 hours ago, tryasimight said:

As we know that setting up a company purely for the purpose of owning land is illegal. This will end in tears and a very depleted bank balance is my prediction.

 

Please keep us posted about how it all goes.

 

Yes, you must be right, but how many people will face this problem before the OP ? 500000 ? 1 million ?

Of course nobody will ever lose his house and only a fine or tax will be asked. But certainly nothing before the OP dies.

 

 

 

 

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

40 million baht for 1 Rai is the Thai BOI scheme.

 

You cannot separate the land from the house from a farang ownership perspective, you could try with a new build but the Land Office wont play ball.

 

Best you can do is to have a Thai own the land then take an usufruct on the house, that works well.

Superficies might be of more interest for a house, than Usufruct.

[lingchai]

10 hours ago, rickjza said:

 

Who have you paid money too?

You have paid money, what name is the house title in?

Don’t pay anything before your set up.

Steer clear of Company ownership if possible, there are far better options.

 

go on,what options are these?

the only thing I've ever heard is you have to set up a company

be interesting if theres an alternative

at present I don't see any other option than to set up a company

 

[lingchai]

12 hours ago, ferguston said:

I can recommend APP - Accounting Pro Plus. - Thepprasit Road Tel 038300071.

Ask to speak to "Pink".

The office is on the same side where the weekend market is held.

over a page of replys and only 1 recommendation,thank you Ferguston

backed up by some other members too so that looks good :)

I will hunt APP down;)

[simoh1490]

4 hours ago, dpdp said:

 

Yes, you must be right, but how many people will face this problem before the OP ? 500000 ? 1 million ?

Of course nobody will ever lose his house and only a fine or tax will be asked. But certainly nothing before the OP dies.

 

 

 

 

You say that but I'm unsure, if land ownership was taken away from the foreigner and given back to the previous Thai owner, it then becomes a civil matter, if the Thai landowner doesn't want the foreigner on the land and there is no superficies or usufruct, losing everything is a very real possibility. Anyway, who wants to live there life in Thailand, especially retirement years, fighting with the Thai government, I certainly wouldn't.

Edited January 8, 2018 by simoh1490

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, everett kendall said:

You will need a minimum of 2 Thai in the company. These are members do not receive income from you. They can be Thai friends, relatives or clerks in the law firm between them they will own 51% of the company.

 

 

More recently they have stopped using their own clerks, likely it was felt that the office tea maker being a shareholder in 276 companies looked suspicious and it also created issues if the staff moved on. One has to be careful selecting their 2 Thai shareholders and get the release pre-signed. Also check when their National ID expires as documentation will need to be updated with a new ID.

If the house is already in a company name it is an easy transfer, as you simply purchase the company. Although some lawyers may suggest you set up a new clean company,

[3421abc]

I have a very important question about creating a Thai company to own a home.

 

Let's say I buy a home and create a company so I can "legally" own it.

 

I have 49% of the shares and other(s) Thai hold 51%.

 

Now what happens if the Thai partner

1 -passes away

2- disappears (in case I want to sell later)

3- become liable in a law suit or in debt to a bank. Can they come after his shares on the "business"?

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, 3421abc said:

I have a very important question about creating a Thai company to own a home.

 

Let's say I buy a home and create a company so I can "legally" own it.

 

I have 49% of the shares and other(s) Thai hold 51%.

 

Now what happens if the Thai partner

1 -passes away

2- disappears (in case I want to sell later)

3- become liable in a law suit or in debt to a bank. Can they come after his shares on the "business"?

The Thai company limited is a shareholder company, and the 51% of the shares are held by one or two Thais – the minimum number of shareholders are three at foundation time; I presume it continue to be minimum three – so it'e merely what happen to a shareholder's shares.

 

To my knowledge (I'm a shareholder in a Co. ltd.):

1.

The shares will be inherited accordingly with a Last Will, or the Law if there's no Last Will. If the inheritor is one of the remaining two shareholders, some (minor amount of) shares will need to be sold or transferred to a new third shareholder.

 

(We are four shareholders in the Co. ltd. I'm shareholder in, so in case one passes away and the shares are inherited by one or more of the remaining shareholders, there will be no change in the names, apart from deleting the name of the one that passed away, and change the amount of shares by those that inherited some; i.e. no new shareholder need to be found.)

 

2.

The company can sell the property, as long as the directors (the board) has power to do it; but one shareholder cannot sell all the company's shares without the other shareholders accept. However, some lawyers will issue blank transfer agreements to be signed by one or two shareholders, so a third shareholder (legally) can dispose the sale of all the company's shares.

 

3.

You may need to ask a business lawyer specific about this.

 

In my home country we often added a clause in smaller limited companies that transfer of shares should be approved by the board of directors, and that the shares could not be used as security for debt, and that third party could not take mortgages in the shares for debt that do not relate to the company. Perhaps something similar may be legal in a Thai Co. ltd.

 

In the "Articles of Association" in the Co. ltd. I'm shareholder in – probably some basic clauses used in a majority of smaller limited companies – it says in the section about "Shares and Shareholders" only:

"The transfer of share shall be made in writing and signed with the name of the transferor and the transferee, by having two witnesses sign their names to certify and shall be able to use in the company and outsiders only when the company registers the announcement of such transfer to shareholders registration."

 

You might find some information here in Thailand Civil and Commercial Code (part II)...
 

Quote

Section 1132.

If by some event such as the death or bankruptcy of any shareholder, another person becomes entitled to a share, the company shall, on surrender of the share certificate when possible, and on proper evidence being produced, register such other person as a shareholder.

[Cricky]

On 09/01/2018 at 1:11 AM, lingchai said:

 

1.    30 year Lease

2.    Do you have a Thai child

3.    Usufruct

 

NOW YOU GO ON...... have you already paid for the house?

You only had to Google owning property in Thailand and the answers are there, possibly too difficult for some.

 

Lots of people out there wanting your money though, trying to sell you a company, they can see you’re an easy target.

[balo]

Yuu can't own the land unless you'r a Thai citizen. Pay as much as you want for a lawyer , will not help you to get a chanote for the land. 

 

[Wake Up]

Certain countries have public policy. Thailand has a public policy against foreigners owning land. Very clear historically for their reasons for this public policy and the public policy is ingrained in the Thai psyche. 

 

Sure lots of smart lawyers will try to find ways to avoid the public policy and it may appear safe to some investors. Lawyers and realtors get paid very well to do this. But every time sh.t hits the fan public policy wins and attempts to get around it lose. Why would anyone really feel comfortable setting up a Thai company that you do not control to simply attempt to own what you cannot own? I don’t care who the lawyers are and who they know, listen to that inner voice and choose another investment. 

 

Now a legal 30 year lease  is not against public policy (maybe consecutive 30 year leases) but that is the best you can do. When you die the lease expires thus not conflicting with public policy. Peace 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Wake Up