British man arrested over death of bar girl in Pattaya

[toughlove]

..Although violent rape deserves more than a couple of years in jail.. If it was your daughter ??

Plenty guys get to do the time without committing the crime. Rape is extremely difficult to prove.

I don't have a daughter

I'm pretty sure the judge is light years smarter than you so unless you have access to court transcripts and are a good lawyer then I suggest you stop second guessing the rape case.

Nobody should be convicted based on a previously crime.

[cyberfarang]

Final moments of Thai hooker caught on video:

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/haunting-cctv-shows-thai-prostitutes-11821208

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

..Although violent rape deserves more than a couple of years in jail.. If it was your daughter ??

I have a young daughter and she would not go off with a strange guy somewhere. If I discovered a daughter of mine was on the game, I`d probably murder her myself.

 

As I said prostitution is a dangerous occupation and tragically the OP prostitute ended up in the wrong place, with the wrong guy, at the wrong time. And also what I said; she`s not the first and won`t be the last.

[Stargeezr]

I saw a case where a bar girl was thrown from a balcony in Bangkok. The Farang

tried to say the same story, but unfortunate for him another hotel guess seen him

throw the girl off the balcony and told the police. I think the guy is still in jail as this

only happened 18 years ago and he was charged with first degree murder, but as a

Farang, I do not think he got the death penalty, which he should have gotten.

RIP to the poor woman, and I hope this guy gets the maximum time in jail for

this murder.

Geezer

[MaeJoMTB]

8 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Final moments of Thai hooker caught on video:

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/haunting-cctv-shows-thai-prostitutes-11821208

"He faces up to ten years in prison or a fine of 200,000 Thai baht on a charge of causing death by negligent or reckless behaviour."

"The 26-year-old waitress had been working at a bar in high-risk holiday resort Pattaya, Thailand, for several months helping to support her family who lived in the country’s north-east region."

 

She looked pretty in the video, and they've sanitized her job a bit.

I'm guessing he'll get off with paying the fine.

Sad she died..

Edited January 10, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Rimmer]

An off topic troll post and replies have been removed

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, MaeJoMTB said:

"He faces up to ten years in prison or a fine of 200,000 Thai baht on a charge of causing death by negligent or reckless behaviour."

"The 26-year-old waitress had been working at a bar in high-risk holiday resort Pattaya, Thailand, for several months helping to support her family who lived in the country’s north-east region."

 

She looked pretty in the video, and they've sanitized her job a bit.

I'm guessing he'll get off with paying the fine.

Sad she died..

I`m not so sure about this, MaeJo.

 

In a country where people can receive 50 year sentences for clicking a like on facebook and actresses that can kill people and get off with paying an amount of money and an apology, then who knows? Who knows what verdict and punishment will be drawn out the hat? All I do know is that I wouldn`t want to be in that guy`s situation at the moment.

[Gruff]

10 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I have a young daughter and she would not go off with a strange guy somewhere. If I discovered a daughter of mine was on the game, I`d probably murder her myself.

 

As I said prostitution is a dangerous occupation and tragically the OP prostitute ended up in the wrong place, with the wrong guy, at the wrong time. And also what I said; she`s not the first and won`t be the last.

 

That is a point though that in reality when boy / girl meet for the first time they are strangers. When they are alone together for the first time there will still be risks . Your daughter / my daughter could be unfortunate to meet a guy like this with a sex offender history and there is a limit to what either of us could do to prevent it. 

 

There is clearly a danger element in prostitution and i suspect a lot of that is because regrettably a number of folk seem to have a great hatred of those in the profession.  However if we are to believe all the news stories in Thai Visa it does appear to me that being a tourist or expat in Thailand is rather more dangerous than being a bargirl.

[sanemax]

58 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

I`m not so sure about this, MaeJo.

 

In a country where people can receive 50 year sentences for clicking a like on facebook and actresses that can kill people and get off with paying an amount of money and an apology, then who knows? Who knows what verdict and punishment will be drawn out the hat? All I do know is that I wouldn`t want to be in that guy`s situation at the moment.

Although you are talking about two extremes of the judicial system .

The huge majority of cases fall inbetween those two extremes

[anon789561]

On 1/8/2018 at 6:42 AM, cyberfarang said:

And it`s people like you with your the obvious must be the fact that will mean the English guy will be assumed guilty to be proved innocent.

 

If I had been in his situation I`d probably had done a runner too, rather then have to face being a number one murder suspect. Sadly unless there is any CCT footage of what happened and I very much doubt there will be, then the guy may be facing months of jail time while under arrest, court attendances, maybe legal fees and media attention until if and when he is proved innocent. I feel sorry for the poor sod.

feel sorry for him!? she was still alive and had he got help on time perhaps could have lived. i would have taken the kicking from the locals just to try and save her. it's BS. he is guilty as sin

[Henrik Andersen]

Sometimes people in here just to mush 

This scumbag is guilty of her death 

Do the crime do the time 

 

[Chivas]

Simply no way this boy (if proven guilty) is walking with a fine that even a council house family in the uk could cobble together.  He'll get a 10 stretch. This story is plastered over every first world country that has a high level of visitors to Thailand.

To even contemplate losing enormous face and letting him go with a fine simply aint happening chaps

 

On an aside its very clear that the thai embassies abroad do not run a criminal conviction check when they issue tourist visas. A rape conviction would surely have a been a reason to deny

[Scouse123]

25 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Simply no way this boy (if proven guilty) is walking with a fine that even a council house family in the uk could cobble together.  He'll get a 10 stretch. This story is plastered over every first world country that has a high level of visitors to Thailand.

To even contemplate losing enormous face and letting him go with a fine simply aint happening chaps

 

On an aside its very clear that the thai embassies abroad do not run a criminal conviction check when they issue tourist visas. A rape conviction would surely have a been a reason to deny

 

 

You are moving into huge human rights issues here especially when the person involved comes from the EU. They do not allow foreign embassies, Thai or otherwise, and vice versa, to go check on their citizens. There would be uproar.

 

Certain countries such as USA and Australia are taking steps to prevent sex offenders from traveling by either refusing them permission and putting them on a stop list in their own countries or stamping their passports so that the receiving countries know they have a sex conviction. This is already happening.

 

However, why stop there?? What about murderers, drug dealers, etc?........ ....Then on the flip side, you will have liberal thinkers saying they have served their punishment and should then be allowed back in the community!!................. so where do you go?

 

Also, in Europe how do you go on when a holder of an EU passport has freedom of movement and gets no more than a cursory glance at the immigration passport control point?? You then also have South East Asian countries with porous borders or countries that will not sign up for information sharing. The USA was facing that exact problem and that is why Trump ordered a block of nationals of certain countries being allowed into the USA and good on him.

 

Lastly, what about people convicted of crimes in countries well known for poor human rights records, bad and corrupt legal systems, and crooked cops? Their own country knows many of these verdicts in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos etc would not stand up in a UK court of law and are unsafe. However, they would sooner allow an occasional sacrificial lamb now and again, rather than risk a political problem or diplomatic spat.

 

It's all very complex and not as simple as a criminal record check.

[CG1 Blue]

16 hours ago, toughlove said:

He has paid his debt to society and is entitled to a fair hearing.

There is a huge problem with the UK judicial system, and many do not pay their debt to society. Sentences are often much too lenient, and often the offenders are released much too early only to re-offend.

In this case we have (if we are to believe his story) a convicted violent rapist having an 'extravagant' session on a balcony resulting in the girl falling to her death.

Based on that best case scenario, do you think he was ready to be released into society again?

[toughlove]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

There is a huge problem with the UK judicial system, and many do not pay their debt to society. Sentences are often much too lenient, and often the offenders are released much too early only to re-offend. In this case we have (if we are to believe his story) a convicted violent rapist having an 'extravagant' session on a balcony resulting in the girl falling to her death.

Based on that best case scenario, do you think he was ready to be released into society again?

 

Sure. If he is innocent why should he go back in jail?

 

How much did the girl have to drink? Do you know? Nope you have no idea

 

Could have gone to to sit in the railing and as the sex acted started she went straight over.

 

If she was nude then nor much to hold onto except sweaty slippery flesh

 

 

[Essaybloke]

47 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

There is a huge problem with the UK judicial system, and many do not pay their debt to society. Sentences are often much too lenient, and often the offenders are released much too early only to re-offend.

In this case we have (if we are to believe his story) a convicted violent rapist having an 'extravagant' session on a balcony resulting in the girl falling to her death.

Based on that best case scenario, do you think he was ready to be released into society again?

...many do not pay their debt to society. Sentences are often much too lenient, and often the offenders are released much too early only to re-offend... How do you know this? How did you determine whether or not a 'debt to society' has been paid? Or that a sentence is not too lenient, not too strict, but just right?  How did you determine that?

 

There is a lot of unsubstantiated generalisation here the only value of which is it justifies your (understandable) anger, frustration and bias.

 

I'd suggest it's not the length of the sentence that is effective, but what happens, what support is put in place to help the mentally ill while they are behind bars and subsequently. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Essaybloke
Clarification.

[toughlove]

People should search Google for judge sentencing guideliness. There are mitigating factors in many crimes a judge can use His discretion if he believes the the case was so tight that it could have swung either way.

@ essay bloke.
.. Will many rape again? Absolutely but you can not lock every up body for life because of a few idiots.

[toughlove]

...many do not pay their debt to society. Sentences are often much too lenient, and often the offenders are released much too early only to re-offend... How do you know this? How did you determine whether or not a 'debt to society' has been paid? Or that a sentence is not too lenient, not too strict, but just right?  How did you determine that?
 
There is a lot of unsubstantiated generalisation here the only value of which is it justifies your (understandable) anger, frustration and bias.
 
I'd suggest it's not the length of the sentence that is effective, but what happens, what support is put in place to help the mentally ill while they are behind bars and subsequently. 

People should search Google for judge sentencing guideliness. There are mitigating factors in many crimes a judge can use His discretion if he believes the the case was so tight that it could have swung either way.

@ essay bloke.
.. Will many rape again? Absolutely but you can not lock up every body for life because of a few idiots.

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, Chivas said:

Simply no way this boy (if proven guilty) is walking with a fine that even a council house family in the uk could cobble together.  He'll get a 10 stretch. This story is plastered over every first world country that has a high level of visitors to Thailand.

To even contemplate losing enormous face and letting him go with a fine simply aint happening chaps

 

On an aside its very clear that the thai embassies abroad do not run a criminal conviction check when they issue tourist visas. A rape conviction would surely have a been a reason to deny

Of all the countries I have visited past and present as a tourist, no authority has ever checked if I have a criminal record or not. Tourists visiting abroad are automatically assumed will be leaving the country or returning to their own countries once their holidays are over.

 

Unless an international wanted notice is placed by interpol then the police will be non the wiser. Also it is easy for criminals to change their names and up date their passports.

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, Essaybloke said:

...many do not pay their debt to society. Sentences are often much too lenient, and often the offenders are released much too early only to re-offend... How do you know this? How did you determine whether or not a 'debt to society' has been paid? Or that a sentence is not too lenient, not too strict, but just right?  How did you determine that?

 

There is a lot of unsubstantiated generalisation here the only value of which is it justifies your (understandable) anger, frustration and bias.

 

I'd suggest it's not the length of the sentence that is effective, but what happens, what support is put in place to help the mentally ill while they are behind bars and subsequently. 

Have a read about John Warboys, and let me know what you think about his imminent release.

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, toughlove said:

Sure. If he is innocent why should he go back in jail?

 

How much did the girl have to drink? Do you know? Nope you have no idea

 

Could have gone to to sit in the railing and as the sex acted started she went straight over.

 

If she was nude then nor much to hold onto except sweaty slippery flesh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you not read about the railings (type and height) at that condo building? Your theory doesn't hold water I'm afraid.

[ttrd]

3 hours ago, toughlove said:

Sure. If he is innocent why should he go back in jail?

 

How much did the girl have to drink? Do you know? Nope you have no idea

 

Could have gone to to sit in the railing and as the sex acted started she went straight over.

 

If she was nude then nor much to hold onto except sweaty slippery flesh

 

 

Are you saying she was bald?

[toughlove]

Have you not read about the railings (type and height) at that condo building? Your theory doesn't hold water I'm afraid.

Every heard of balcony chairs? Surely you get that

It's been suggested that the railing was 3 ft 6 and discussions of center of gravity.

The average guy is 5 ft 7

Yet death through misadventure still occurs

I'm afraid anything Is possible.

[BigC]

On 1/8/2018 at 1:50 PM, farcanell said:

In Thailand?

 

scene fleeing is seemingly normal and allowable.... 

Maybe you need to revise where you get your information from 

[BigC]

He ran away from the scene so they had to nick him to question him as he was the last person to see her alive 

 

looks like he wasn’t going to go in Volenteerily so they arrested him

 

standard in Thailand 

 

then find in’s out the old bill got a warrant out for him for rape

 

thats more serious

 

 

a good lawyer should get him off these charges but if he is a real rapist which he might not be 

 

but if he is I hope he gets to serve time in thai and English jails 

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, toughlove said:

 

 

Every heard of balcony chairs? Surely you get that

It's been suggested that the railing was 3 ft 6 and discussions of center of gravity.

The average guy is 5 ft 7

Yet death through misadventure still occurs

I'm afraid anything Is possible.

 

You're right, anything is possible. 

But with this guy's history, plus the fact he took her phone and left her for dead, legged it to another hotel, and he had the motorbike rental company after him, and he had over stayed his visa  - I know where my money would be if I was a betting man.

[Hamuraii]

consensual sex in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation with the lights out on a low profile futon, should I fall off.

[farcanell]

12 hours ago, Happy enough said:

feel sorry for him!? she was still alive and had he got help on time perhaps could have lived. i would have taken the kicking from the locals just to try and save her. it's BS. he is guilty as sin

Guard heard her impact... immediately investigated... aid given... unfortunately she did not live.... moot point.

[KiChakayan]

5 hours ago, Hamuraii said:

consensual sex in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation with the lights out on a low profile futon, should I fall off.

Why do you give a definition of birth control here?

[anon789561]

10 hours ago, farcanell said:

Guard heard her impact... immediately investigated... aid given... unfortunately she did not live.... moot point.

ok, so run then. bs