Declined 60 days to visit wife - The story contiues

[baneko]

In a previous topic I asked whether my friends Extension to Stay - Retirement (Multi Entry) could be extended.

 

From the answers given I told him he could receive 60 days to visit his wife. So yesterday he goes with his wife to Immigration in BKK where he lives and is refused.

 

He has been using an agency in BKK for his Extension to Stay - Retirement (Multi Entry) for a few years. He did not notice his extension was made in Roi-et not BKK where he lives. Immigration in BKK dont give him tbe 60 days.

 

Any thoughts on a way forward would be helpful. Please remember he is on a retirement extension but cant make either the 800.000 for a new extension or 400.000 for a marraige extension.

 

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[tonray]

The problem in using these 'barely legal' methods of avoiding having monies in the bank are on display here. He needs to go to the Immigration office in Roi Et where he is registered and apply there.

[Tanoshi]

It sounds as though your friend is on a Non Imm O multi entry Visa, based on being married to a Thai, which he received from a Thai Embassy or Consulate.

 

He can only make an application for a 60 day extension at the Immigration office where he registered his address.

(In this case you state Roi Et)

He would first have to file a TM28 (change of address) at CW, (with proof of his Bangkok address) before he could apply for the extension there.

[ubonjoe]

He needs to formally change his address to Bangkok. He will need proof of residence for there to do it and the 60 day extension application.

[Tanoshi]

23 minutes ago, baneko said:

Please remember he is on a retirement extension but cant make either the 800.000 for a new extension or 400.000 for a marraige extension.

An extension based on either retirement or marriage gives permission to stay for 1 year.

There is no 60 day extension to an extension given.

Who or where has he been making his 90 day reports to?

[baneko]

He needs to formally change his address to Bangkok. He will need proof of residence for there to do it and the 60 day extension application.

Does he change his address at CW Immigration? I know he has a Yellow Book and bank book. Would that be suffucient for proof of residence? The strange thing is he has never been to Roi-et and always showed the available funds up until this renewal. Strange.

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[Tanoshi]

If indeed he is on an extension of stay, he still cannot extend it for 60 days based on marriage to a Thai.

 

The 60 day extension to visit a Thai wife is given to those on a Non Imm O multi entry Visa.

Each entry allows 90 days permission to stay, which can be extended 60 days.

 

Who owns the house where he lives? (Wife / landlord)

For change of address they will require a copy of homeowners Tabien Baan and ID card as proof of address.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, baneko said:

Does he change his address at CW Immigration? I know he has a Yellow Book and bank book. Would that be suffucient for proof of residence? The strange thing is he has never been to Roi-et and always showed the available funds up until this renewal.

He will do it a CW.

If his yellow book is for Bangkok it will be accepted. I assume it is based upon his wife's house book which would also serve as proof of residence for him.

Where has he been doing his 90 day reports?

[tonray]

But of course once the 60 days are up...what does he do then ? Go back to the 'agent' and have him 'negotiate' with an IO in Roi Et again ? Must consider the implications of changing that address especially if he wants to get another Multi without cash in the bank.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If indeed he is on an extension of stay, he still cannot extend it for 60 days based on marriage to a Thai.

The 60 day extension can be obtained for any type of entry or extension of stay.

It is certainly not restrict to non-o visa entries.

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

The 60 day extension can be obtained for any type of entry or extension of stay.

It is certainly not restrict to non-o visa entries.

Extension based on retirement?

[baneko]

An extension based on either retirement or marriage gives permission to stay for 1 year.
There is no 60 day extension to an extension given.
Who or where has he been making his 90 day reports to?

The agent was doing it for him. He would give it to her to complete the report.

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[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Extension based on retirement?

Yes of course. The clause for the extension has no visa/entry requirements.

 

Quote

2.24 In the case of visiting a spouse or
children who are of Thai nationality:
Permission shall be granted for one time and
no more than 60 days.
(1) There must be proof of relationship.
(2) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto.

 

[baneko]

He will do it a CW.
If his yellow book is for Bangkok it will be accepted. I assume it is based upon his wife's house book which would also serve as proof of residence for him.
Where has he been doing his 90 day reports?

The agent was doing it for him. He was dropping his PP to her then picking it up a few days later. Yes his yellow book is for BKK where he has a house with his wife.

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[baneko]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

It sounds as though your friend is on a Non Imm O multi entry Visa, based on being married to a Thai, which he received from a Thai Embassy or Consulate.
 
He can only make an application for a 60 day extension at the Immigration office where he registered his address.
(In this case you state Roi Et)
He would first have to file a TM28 (change of address) at CW, (with proof of his Bangkok address) before he could apply for the extension there.

 

Extension to Stay - Retirement



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Edited January 11, 2018 by ubonjoe
removed image at posters request

[Tanoshi]

That's a re-entry permit, not an extension.

 

 

[baneko]

That's a re-entry permit, not an extension.
 
 

Thats what he sent me. As you can see in the bottom corner it says Roi-et. I know he is on an Extension Based on Retirement.

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[Briggsy]

Deducing from the re-entry permit (not an extension), he appears to have permission to stay till 1 Feb 2018.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Extension based on retirement?

Can do it with anything, even a Tourist entry, and some offices, even after having already done a 30-day extension of the Tourist entry, tack the 60-days onto the end of that.

 

The twist with getting the 60-days "visit wife", is you can only do it once for the "entry" upon which the extension, or possibly years of extensions, is based on.

Example: enter on a Non-O (single, multi, O-A, married, retirement, whatever), extend a year, extend another year, get 60-days to "visit wife", extend another year, extend another year, ... then request for another "visit wife" will be denied, because one was given already for that Non-O entry at the start of the chain. 

Edited January 11, 2018 by JackThompson

[Tanoshi]

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes of course. The clause for the extension has no visa/entry requirements.

19 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

2.24 In the case of visiting a spouse or
children who are of Thai nationality:
Permission shall be granted for one time and
no more than 60 days.
(1) There must be proof of relationship.
(2) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto.

 

I understand where your coming from, but I think you'd have a problem running that through an Immigration office, when you've obtain an extension based on retirement using clause 2.22 (In the case of retirement) as your reason to extend your permission to stay.

 

It wouldn't serve any purpose to pay 1,900 for a 60 day extension in this situation, when an annual extension is the same cost, unless your financially on your knees. In that situation I'd go to Savannakhet and apply for a Non Imm O ME based on marriage where no financials are required.

[poohy]

If you are using an agent to facilitate ALWAYS use one in the same immigration area it keeps 90 day reports simple and obviously other extensions.

Prices are usually comparative and sometimes  negotiable  especially if an out of area one cause problems down the line

This problem arose a few years ago with out of area visa/extension and some(most) immigration offices demanded 90 reports done at issuing office

[baneko]

Deducing from the re-entry permit (not an extension), he appears to have permission to stay till 1 Feb 2018.

Thats correct. He's trying to sort his visa issues now.

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[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, baneko said:

Thats what he sent me. As you can see in the bottom corner it says Roi-et. I know he is on an Extension Based on Retirement.

What was a bit confusing, is the mention of the 'multi-entry' - which, in this case, is a re-entry permit on a 1-year retirement extension, but has nothing to do with his eligibility for a 60-day visit-wife. 

 

But the "Roi Et" on that re-entry permit does indicate his extension was from there, since both were probably done as part of a "package deal" from his agent - which would also be why he is likely combining the extension and re-entry permit into one "thing" in his head. 

A re-entry permit can generally only be applied for at a departure-point OR the office where you are registered as living. 

 

He can either apply for the 60-days in Roi-Et, or he can officially move to Bangkok (submit a TM-28 there).  But whatever deal his "agent" had to do his 90-day reporting will need to be considered.  You might ask him how or if he is doing those.  He may need to ask his agent.

[baneko]

If you are using an agent to facilitate ALWAYS use one in the same immigration area it keeps 90 day reports simple and obviously other extensions.
Prices are usually comparative and sometimes  negotiable  especially if an out of area one cause problems down the line
This problem arose a few years ago with out of area visa/extension and some(most) immigration offices demanded 90 reports done at issuing office

He has always stayed in BKK and was giving the PP to the agent for his 90 day report.

He was unaware the Extension was obtained in Roi-et. Although it does show it on the PP.

When reporting it look like the agent must have been sending the PP to Roi-et as she kept it for a few days.

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[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, baneko said:

When reporting it look like the agent must have been sending the PP to Roi-et as she kept it for a few days.

The way some agents work, is via a particular contact at an Immigration office.  It is likely that the "cut of the fee" demanded by the corrupt IO in Roi Et is lower than he could negotiate from a corrupt IO at Chang Wattana.

 

If I were him, I would avoid being part of this criminal/corruption chain.  Since he is married to a Thai, he has a fairly easy way to do this - get a Non-O Multi in Savannakhet based on marriage (no financials required), register his location in Bangkok (TM-28), and do the Visa-runs. 

 

Visa runs to the Myanmar border from Bangkok are fairly quick, and only 960 Baht for the out/in, plus bus-cost to the border area, so would also save him considerable money vs Agent-fees.  Since he doesn't have the 40K/mo or 400K in the bank, it would seem this would be a good option for him.

 

16 minutes ago, baneko said:

... was giving the PP to the agent for his 90 day report.

Also being done in Roi-Et, almost certainly.  He would need to start doing them at Bangkok, if he officially moves there (TM-28).

[tgeezer]

I don't imagine that there are bargains made as you say and I wouldn't be so sure that what is going on is criminal.

I must say I have always wondered what would happen if you tried to go freelance after using an agent for a few years, problematic I guessed because a steady ncome stream is lost. I suspect that the answer for this husband is to keep on using the agent, and if he can't afford one it's a International human rights issue, if Thailand subscribes to such things, quite a tangle.


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[bttao]

Supervisors at the helm of the immigration department don't seem to be doing their job (unless they are part of the corruption going on).

 

All they have to do is read the posts on this and other forums to get the full picture of what is going on and where.

 

I don't think any other country has such a messed up immigration rules which differ from one office/region to another... 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

I don't imagine that there are bargains made as you say and I wouldn't be so sure that what is going on is criminal.

An agent could help with an extension without doing anything wrong - maybe some do only legal things.  But this sounds like a case of, "I cannot meet the financial requirements," so involves faked-financials without the required seasoning.   And if an IO is taking a brown-envelope for any reason - faked financials or even skipping the queue, that's a bribe - criminal by definition.  Loss of career / replacement with an honest person willing to do their job, and jail-time for the offenders, should follow.

 

Quote

I must say I have always wondered what would happen if you tried to go freelance after using an agent for a few years, problematic I guessed because a steady ncome stream is lost.

There was a report here about a guy who tried this in Bangkok.  He was told, "Go back to agent," and had to go to a consulate for a fresh Non-O to start the process from scratch.  I think that was having previously used a Bangkok agent, so was cutting into someone's revenue stream.  As this was a RoiEt IO getting the brown-envelope, Bangkok might not mind cutting them off.

 

Quote

I suspect that the answer for this husband is to keep on using the agent, and if he can't afford one it's a International human rights issue, if Thailand subscribes to such things, quite a tangle.

They don't.  Foreigners, even married to Thais and/or with children here, have no right to stay here.  You beg "please, may I be with my family," for one year at a time, at their discretion - and without even a solid set of rules enforced nationwide - and unpublished rules changing year-to-year.  The only workaround, for now, is a 1-year ME Non-O, though each 90-day entry from that is still at officer's discretion - so you could be locked-out at any time.  There is no UN-appeal to be made, that I am aware of.

Edited January 11, 2018 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, bttao said:

Supervisors at the helm of the immigration department don't seem to be doing their job (unless they are part of the corruption going on).

I suspect it is a pyramid-scheme, or it would have been stopped by now.  Cases like the crackdown at Sadao (was 100 to 200 baht per no-hassle entry), indicate when the pyramid didn't reach high enough and/or national-security trumped the scheme.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

An agent could help with an extension without doing anything wrong - maybe some do only legal things.  But this sounds like a case of, "I cannot meet the financial requirements," so involves faked-financials without the required seasoning.   And if an IO is taking a brown-envelope for any reason - faked financials or even skipping the queue, that's a bribe - criminal by definition.  Loss of career / replacement with an honest person willing to do their job, and jail-time for the offenders, should follow.

 

There was a report here about a guy who tried this in Bangkok.  He was told, "Go back to agent," and had to go to a consulate for a fresh Non-O to start the process from scratch.  I think that was having previously used a Bangkok agent, so was cutting into someone's revenue stream.  As this was a RoiEt IO getting the brown-envelope, Bangkok might not mind cutting them off.

 

They don't.  Foreigners, even married to Thais and/or with children here, have no right to stay here.  You beg "please, may I be with my family," for one year at a time, at their discretion - and without even a solid set of rules enforced nationwide - and unpublished rules changing year-to-year.  The only workaround, for now, is a 1-year ME Non-O, though each 90-day entry from that is still at officer's discretion - so you could be locked-out at any time.  There is no UN-appeal to be made, that I am aware of.

"But this sounds like a case of, "I cannot meet the financial requirements," so involves faked-financials without the required seasoning."

Disagree. In the past an agent was used, who probably knew an IO somewhere else so went there, easier. Now the friend of the TS wants just a 60 day extension, so no seasoning etc. required.