Cries go unheeded as pretty Soi Cowboy waitress found strangled and battered in nearby building

[PattayaAngel]

13 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Lot of sense there.  Some of the bar-girls do look for a relationship with a farang and some don't.  Just like every profession there is no point in generalising on the people in it.  Many people get ripped off by bar-girls and hookers in general.  It goes with the territory but we shouldn't paint all with the same brush.  There are also some real treasures out there.

I have met some very nice 'treasures' and nice personalities and genuinely I often respect them being there to help their kid. They do NOT deserve abuse but deserve respect and kindness and I hope I always do that. However they are working in a bar and selling their bodies, that's not to condemn nor judge, but it has to be remembered.

[TKDfella]

19 hours ago, sandrew33 said:

Twice I've intervened in Thailand. Once in the apartment next door to mine in Sukhumvit when I went and knocked on the door and asked if all were ok. Girl left and ran away, guy threatened me but moved out of the building 2 days later. Thai v Thai. 

 

Once in the street on Suk Road when a young farang guy was threatening abd slapping his Thai girlfriend on a long walk down from Soi 4 all the way to Asoke. I simply followed and then intervened when he started blocking her and then slapping her. He told me to <deleted> off etc etc but eventually he let her go and she bolted to the BTS. An American guy got my back when the young guy looked like he might get physical. 

 

Obviously one needs to exercise some discretion but doing nothing when a fellow human is being physically assaulted isn't an option IMO.  

You and 'chrisinth' make valid points but I think it all depends on a person's genuine philosophy (as opposed to excuses) and the circumstances. Seeing something happen one can make a decision; hearing the next door neighbours is a little more difficult. While in Thailand I have done both; I intervened in one and the outcome was positive while in another case I alerted others nearby...which also had a reasonable outcome. We don't know what the cries for 'help' were but in this case I am surprised that at least an alert wasn't instigated. Very sad indeed. My condolences to the lady's family.

[buick]

i was told by a friend that the girl worked at lighthouse as a dancer.  had only worked there for one month.  what a tragedy to die at such a young age.  barely even got a chance to experience life.  i lost one of my best friends when we were 16, i still think about all the things he has missed out on.  RIP young lady.

Edited January 13, 2018 by buick

[ALFREDO]

20 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

The problem with helping a thai women defend herself against a Thai man, is that when you join in, his friends will join in on you, or he'll be off to get his buddies. 

I was not in such emergency situation  as this case is about, 

but I more than once went to ask what is going on and stopped it,

 

when drunk old husband hits is wife and children plead to him not to do that - my Thai family had given up on that case - but my loud voice, appearance helped to stop all and next day the wife thanked me - in Isaan village

 

when I hear constantly repeatedly day by day Baby or young children cry - Isaan village

saw small girl been hit - neighbour in my Isaan village

 

or dogs cry from hitting without stop - from a deaf man - Patong.

 

or a man shouting in his phone, outside my Baby window at 3 AM - on my Appartements verandah - Patong -

he not reacted to my words, so I just started cleaning my floor with water hose in his direction. 

 

Had also some "situations" on the road - but until now  - held the upper hand without any fighting,

just look to have a way out with the car or motorbike, not get boxed in somewhere not go out from car. 

 

Surely - 2 different Long Time Gf's said to me NO! not your problem - not do- can get bad respond - can be dangerous.

BUT, I am not Thai - have my own attitude. 

 

 

[ALFREDO]

21 hours ago, chrisinth said:

For all those blaming this incident not being reported, I would like to ask for your honesty.

 

What would you do if you heard a domestic argument? This is obviously assuming that you can't differentiate between a domestic and a murder, which most people wouldn't be able to.

 

In all the years I have been here, and all the arguing I have heard, I will be honest that I have never interfered and if I didn't actually see what was going on, I would have no intention of ever doing so. Same would apply in my home country. 

 

 

Please see my answer above 

[gandalf12]

9 hours ago, Benroon said:

<deleted> get a grip - happens in every country on this planet ! 

You must live in a really sick country

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 1/12/2018 at 9:15 AM, webfact said:

He assaulted her frequently and liked to borrow money from her, they said.

Hmmm.... Seems to me I've heard this story before more than a few times among the night venue workers here...

 

[Jiggo]

23 hours ago, Orac said:

 

Possibly migrant workers without proper paperwork maybe?

Another one who's been to  detective school, could have called anyway, withholding name number....

[MyFriend You]

21 hours ago, Rhys said:

Sad.. RIP  little one... no more of the AH... now fry this guy...but guess what .. he walks..

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/10/12/8-years-last-execution-abolition-still-not-guaranteed/

it appears Thailand only executes once every 8 years on the average - if they did 4 executions a month, that would be a deterrent I am sure.  In the seventies they had Public Executions, in fact they were mandatory for the residents of the community that the crime was committed............they should start that up again, maybe even televise it, might save a life one day.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

It would be great if more people would stand up for those who can't help themselves. I cannot drive away when there's an accident with injured victims, no matter what others are doing.

And I won't look away if somebody's screaming for his life.

 

It's a sad world where dead people in apartments are only found because of the bad smell for the neighbors.

Somebody must have heard the calls for help and not calling the cops, or trying anything else, really sukcs. This kind of Thainess isn't something they can be proud of. 

 

RIP my condolences to the relatives and friends. 

 

It would be great if more people would stand up for those who can't help themselves.

Seriously?

With regard to disputes involving violence anyone that lives in the western countries that I have knows better than to get involved in another persons dispute. If one were to hurt the aggressive person in any way, the wannabe rescuer ends up in court and with a criminal record.

Apparently, the way the policing works now is that the thug is allowed to do the damage and then the police come along, do a report, and then file it along with all the other reports waiting action. If by some chance the thug is actually apprehended, the court will give them a nothing penalty ( unless it's a newsworthy assault ). 

I was once a spectator in court, and watched while a thug ( with a record ) using a knife in commission of a crime was let off with a pathetic sentence, while a guy that lost it because he found his girlfriend having it off with another guy, and damaged that guys car got a severe sentence.

The so called justice system sucks, IMO.

The point of the above, is that we bring our conditioning with us, and many of us are conditioned not to get involved as we'll either get injured by a thug that can fight way better than we can, or end up criminalised for trying to help.

I have to admit, that other than calling the tourist police, I would not have got involved in the subject of the OP either.

People are complaining that the locals didn't help, but the locals know what happens if they get involved in other's disputes better than we do, and we don't know how many heard her screaming, or what their reasons for not getting involved were, though it's strange that they would admit to hearing and not phone the cops. One explanation could be that where they live, such screams are a normal occurrence, and they didn't give them much mind.

 

I cannot drive away when there's an accident with injured victims,

In some countries that I've been in someone that tries to help an injured person, as in a traffic accident, and that person dies, will be found guilty of causing the persons death, especially if a foreigner. 

In Saudi we were told in our orientation not to help anyone taken ill or injured outside the hospital for that reason.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, balo said:

Nonsense, I have been helped many times by Thais.  I have not paid anything , do not generalize all Thais even if you were unlucky one time. 

 

 

IMO he's referring to farangs, not Thais. Of course some Thais will try to help, as many very good Thais around.

[idannyb]

22 hours ago, chrisinth said:

For all those blaming this incident not being reported, I would like to ask for your honesty.

 

What would you do if you heard a domestic argument? This is obviously assuming that you can't differentiate between a domestic and a murder, which most people wouldn't be able to.

 

In all the years I have been here, and all the arguing I have heard, I will be honest that I have never interfered and if I didn't actually see what was going on, I would have no intention of ever doing so. Same would apply in my home country. 

 

Too many people like to think they would do what is probably morally correct in a situation until that situation happens and they end up doing nothing. Easier to blame everyone else for not doing something than being truthful with yourselves. 

Have to say there's truth in your words ... I consider myself chivalrous and have intervened before on occasions to quell domestic assaults (one man v woman and another teens beating a kid in effort to steal his bike) ... but these were in broad daylight with other witnesses around. But another time, I was a 'stranger in a strange land' ... in Almaty, Kazakhstan in 2004. In the middle of the night (circa At 4 a.m.) I heard a woman's blood curdling scream coming from the park across the street from my hotel ...It was the kind of scream you'd only heard if someone was in mortal danger. After jumping up from my slumber (with the thought of dressing quickly to intervene) my rational side quickly processed a few factiods ... 1. You'd be heading into a pitch dark park in a foreign country where you are at many disadvantages ... 2. Who is out at 4 a.m. and why would they be in the park? Yes, there are virtually no justifications for an assault on a woman in such a place/time ... but I no (knew) nothing of the circumstances and I'd be potentially risking my own life/limb to go out out there in the black of night on a dubious rescue mission. No one deserves to be assaulted... but after assessing the possible good I might do versus risks to self ... I took the cowards way out ... I ignored the matter and went back to sleep. I did report the incident to hotel security the next day ... but I'm sure they laughed it off albeit not to my face.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, ALFREDO said:

I was not in such emergency situation  as this case is about, 

but I more than once went to ask what is going on and stopped it,

 

when drunk old husband hits is wife and children plead to him not to do that - my Thai family had given up on that case - but my loud voice, appearance helped to stop all and next day the wife thanked me - in Isaan village

 

when I hear constantly repeatedly day by day Baby or young children cry - Isaan village

saw small girl been hit - neighbour in my Isaan village

 

or dogs cry from hitting without stop - from a deaf man - Patong.

 

or a man shouting in his phone, outside my Baby window at 3 AM - on my Appartements verandah - Patong -

he not reacted to my words, so I just started cleaning my floor with water hose in his direction. 

 

Had also some "situations" on the road - but until now  - held the upper hand without any fighting,

just look to have a way out with the car or motorbike, not get boxed in somewhere not go out from car. 

 

Surely - 2 different Long Time Gf's said to me NO! not your problem - not do- can get bad respond - can be dangerous.

BUT, I am not Thai - have my own attitude. 

 

 

and if one of those people had a gun and shot you?

 

My wife wouldn't let me even hoot the horn at a car that cut us off as she feared me being shot for it.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, idannyb said:

Have to say there's truth in your words ... I consider myself chivalrous and have intervened before on occasions to quell domestic assaults (one man v woman and another teens beating a kid in effort to steal his bike) ... but these were in broad daylight with other witnesses around. But another time, I was a 'stranger in a strange land' ... in Almaty, Kazakhstan in 2004. In the middle of the night (circa At 4 a.m.) I heard a woman's blood curdling scream coming from the park across the street from my hotel ...It was the kind of scream you'd only heard if someone was in mortal danger. After jumping up from my slumber (with the thought of dressing quickly to intervene) my rational side quickly processed a few factiods ... 1. You'd be heading into a pitch dark park in a foreign country where you are at many disadvantages ... 2. Who is out at 4 a.m. and why would they be in the park? Yes, there are virtually no justifications for an assault on a woman in such a place/time ... but I no (knew) nothing of the circumstances and I'd be potentially risking my own life/limb to go out out there in the black of night on a dubious rescue mission. No one deserves to be assaulted... but after assessing the possible good I might do versus risks to self ... I took the cowards way out ... I ignored the matter and went back to sleep. I did report the incident to hotel security the next day ... but I'm sure they laughed it off albeit not to my face.

I once had the same situation staying in a Malayan hotel and hearing a woman screaming very loudly. I was having an internal debate as to whether I should "do something", but before I actually did so, I realised they were not screams of pain.

Nuff said.

[The manic]

On 1/12/2018 at 9:25 AM, geriatrickid said:

 They had heard her cries for help as an argument ensued but no one dared intervene.

 

That says all that needs to be said. Shameful, cowardly but expected in a country where the abuse of women is accepted and encouraged by far too many men.

Not like Saudi then or Pakistan or Afhganistan. The abuse of women is not encouraged in Thailand. She was obviously in with a 'badun'. Poor thing. What is shameful is that people did not intervene which can often sober abusive guys up, slow them down and make them think a bit about what  they are doing. You dont't have to fight the man just distract him. The oppression of women is not culturally sanctioned n Thailand as it is in Islamic countries thus one can intervene in such abuse in Thailand but not some places.people should have come to her help.

[Lupatria]

11 hours ago, Benroon said:

<deleted> get a grip - happens in every country on this planet ! 

...and what would this planet be like without geniuses sharing their wisdom?

[smudger1951]

On 12/01/2018 at 12:53 PM, RichardColeman said:

The problem with helping a thai women defend herself against a Thai man, is that when you join in, his friends will join in on you, or he'll be off to get his buddies. 

How very true, the assaults I've seen on Pattaya beach are a giveaway to the industry there. No room for Sir Galahads. ! 

[The manic]

16 minutes ago, smudger1951 said:

How very true, the assaults I've seen on Pattaya beach are a giveaway to the industry there. No room for Sir Galahads. ! 

She  was alone in a deserted building. Dont make excuses for cowardice.  Intervention by a group of people could have stopped this. Intervention does not mean a fist fight. An intervention could have stopped this girl being murdered.  Its called doing the right thing. Just by shouting from a distance, videoing the situation, or slowing the assault down, without heroics, can save a life.

[The manic]

51 minutes ago, Lupatria said:

...and what would this planet be like without geniuses sharing their wisdom?

It's not a case  of genius or wisdom. It is to remind the embittered, racist Thai haters that human folly and tragedy is not the monopoly of Thailand.

[quadperfect]

On 1/12/2018 at 12:57 PM, chrisinth said:

For all those blaming this incident not being reported, I would like to ask for your honesty.

 

What would you do if you heard a domestic argument? This is obviously assuming that you can't differentiate between a domestic and a murder, which most people wouldn't be able to.

 

In all the years I have been here, and all the arguing I have heard, I will be honest that I have never interfered and if I didn't actually see what was going on, I would have no intention of ever doing so. Same would apply in my home country. 

 

Too many people like to think they would do what is probably morally correct in a situation until that situation happens and they end up doing nothing. Easier to blame everyone else for not doing something than being truthful with yourselves. 

You have a great point. I believe here in thailand there is no real choices in a domestic incidence.

but in my country usa you just call 911 and in 2 ninutes the cops sort it out. All you need say is possible murder in progress.

911 is a amazing creation in the usa. I have needed it a few times in my life.

Thailand has way to many other pressing matters for the public security. Such as military hardware to fight off someone one day.

Thats first. Maybe in 50 years they will have a 911 like most other civilized societys. But for now we just got to do what we can. If its stand up to the beast and his mates. Then do so at youre own risk cause no one gives you know what.

You are on youre own here. 100 percent.wild asia

[SupermarineS6B]

Oh yeah, jump into an argument with two Thais in soi cowboy ? probably safer to play Russian roulette with an automatic..... Sorry for the girl but the best solution is to find the guy and hang the barstuard..... but as we've all seen though the powers that be will probably blame soi Cowboy and not the individual and close the place down, exactly what they did on the train system when a THAI raped and killed a girl, but it was alcohol that caused it say the authorities so they banned it on the trains and created a truly miserable travelling experience.  Keep an eye on this one, they've just about cleansed Sukhumvit now of all fun and pleasure........ Me thinks Cowboy's next.........

[jenny2017]

27 minutes ago, SupermarineS6B said:

Oh yeah, jump into an argument with two Thais in soi cowboy ? probably safer to play Russian roulette with an automatic..... Sorry for the girl but the best solution is to find the guy and hang the barstuard..... but as we've all seen though the powers that be will probably blame soi Cowboy and not the individual and close the place down, exactly what they did on the train system when a THAI raped and killed a girl, but it was alcohol that caused it say the authorities so they banned it on the trains and created a truly miserable travelling experience.  Keep an eye on this one, they've just about cleansed Sukhumvit now of all fun and pleasure........ Me thinks Cowboy's next.........

There are cops and eventually more foreigners than Thai people. What would you do if some guys would approach your wife? There's always a better solution than looking away. 

[SupermarineS6B]

2 hours ago, smudger1951 said:

How very true, the assaults I've seen on Pattaya beach are a giveaway to the industry there. No room for Sir Galahads. ! 

100%, if you want a good kicking or even murdered....... join in with a domestic Thai situation....... Sadly people don't understand that some Thai men are usually living off the backs of their sisters.......... maeng daa......and when they don't get what they want, this is what happens....

[SupermarineS6B]

1 minute ago, jenny2017 said:

There are cops and eventually more foreigners than Thai people. What would you do if some guys would approach your wife? There's always a better solution than looking away. 

A phone call would do it......... but then again there's plenty of security and cops walking around cowboy.... but i think you'll find that this guy's connected...... lots of loan sharks operating in cowboy.......

[jenny2017]

2 minutes ago, SupermarineS6B said:

A phone call would do it......... but then again there's plenty of security and cops walking around cowboy.... but i think you'll find that this guy's connected...... lots of loan sharks operating in cowboy.......

I had an argument with one guy and couldn't just stand there when he told me to fragg my mom. The result wasn't nice and six of his "buddies" then almost killed me.

 

   But that doesn't mean that I'd watch a weirdo kill a girl. It's very difficult to say what one would do when not in the situation. 

[SupermarineS6B]

19 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

There are cops and eventually more foreigners than Thai people. What would you do if some guys would approach your wife? There's always a better solution than looking away. 

I can remember a few years ago when a young English lad tried to warn a Thai Policeman from making advances to his wife, the Policeman shot the young lad, then ran the wife down with a pick up........ Look it up..... Kanchanaburi...... i believe he's roaming wild and free at this very moment..... morals and righteousness can get you killed ..........

Edited January 13, 2018 by SupermarineS6B

[SupermarineS6B]

29 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

I had an argument with one guy and couldn't just stand there when he told me to fragg my mom. The result wasn't nice and six of his "buddies" then almost killed me.

 

   But that doesn't mean that I'd watch a weirdo kill a girl. It's very difficult to say what one would do when not in the situation. 

If you saw it you'd probably try to stop it, i would, i have, i've also plenty of stitches in my head from an iron bar gained exactly doing what i thought was right, but caution is the word..... I'm in Cowboy every night and believe me there's lots of nasty well armed locals down there and probably the reason why nobody's said or done anything is because they all know the result......including the cops.....

Edited January 13, 2018 by SupermarineS6B

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, SupermarineS6B said:

I can remember a few years ago when a young English lad tried to warn a Thai soldier from making advances to his wife, the soldier shot the young lad, then ran the wife down with a pick up........ Look it up..... Kanchanaburi...... i believe he's roaming wild and free at this very moment..... morals and righteousness can get you killed ..........

 

Morals and righteousness got Millions Killed in WW2...  we live on in freedom through their sacrifice.

I'm not suggesting we should be prepared to sacrifice ourselves for another, but that this woman screams were heard and ignored is disappointingly telling of modern society and attitudes. 

 

As we age, modernise we all become a little tainted by the lowest common denominator and lose a little of our humanity along the way. 

[jenny2017]

16 minutes ago, SupermarineS6B said:

If you saw it you'd probably try to stop it, i would, i have, i've also plenty of stitches in my head from an iron bar gained exactly doing what i thought was right, but caution is the word..... I'm in Cowboy every night and believe me there's lots of nasty well armed locals down there and probably the reason why nobody's said or done anything is because they all know the result......including the cops.....

It's different when you're there every day. I'm aware that a one on one fight would never happen as we might be used to. Would you beat one in front of others, he'd be back to kick you so bad that it's really scary. It really depends on the situation and again, if you're not in such a situation, it's very difficult to say what you'd do if/when/./././././././.

 

   

Edited January 13, 2018 by jenny2017

[SupermarineS6B]

8 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

It's different when you're there every day. I'm aware that a one on one fight would never happen as we might be used to. Would you beat one in front of others, he'd be back to kick you so bad that it's really scary. It really depends on the situation and again, if you're not in such a situation, it's very difficult to say what you'd if/when....

 

   

Years ago i dragged a man down soi cowboy to get him away from a load of Thais that were going to kill him ( And that's happened down there by the way) i chucked him in a taxi, got him away and waited for my reward, namely his kicking.... luckilly the individuals just laughed and it was wais all round, but imagine if they hadn't been so friendly ?