Anti-Yingluck activists to face prosecutors

[halloween]

18 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Role of the military is defending the country from external threats. You seem to be unclear on that role. 

Your view of the role of the military is simplistic.

[yellowboat]

6 hours ago, halloween said:

Your claim, as usual, is ridiculous. My claim was that "bad apples" were produced, by so-called 'democracy' schools and by the incitations to violence of the 'leaders' who were actually mercenary propagandists and agitators.

Try to understand the meaning of majority, then apply it to today rather than some distant election. Then try to explain why the level of violence has fallen, and why the Thai people prefer the "implied threat of violence" to the real thing killing their countrymen.

Again yours and everyone else's exaggeration of the violence is an insult to the common Thai.  Most Thais, as reflected by General Prim's comments, are growing weary of the junta, especially after seeing all the really nice watches.  Even the yellows I deal with are mortified by the ostentatiousness of Prawit and the lack of substantial contributions to the country's 99%.  Though you may not tire of peace at any price, many Thais are, including Abhisit.   Why does the army, in times of trouble, seize power instead of calling an election like South Korea did?

 

Your might makes right arguments have not lost their tedium.  

 

Guessing you are not a Jefferson fan:

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." Thomas Jefferson

 

Nobody has ever been able to answer why the Taiwanese are able to maintain representative government while the Thais cannot.  I would like to hear your less than ridiculous opinion. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by yellowboat

[Eric Loh]

6 hours ago, halloween said:

Your view of the role of the military is simplistic.

It is simplistic. Just defend against all external threats. Too complicated for you?

[halloween]

19 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

It is simplistic. Just defend against all external threats. Too complicated for you?

The conversation would be much easier if you understood the meaning of the word. Do you rule out any military involvement in aid of civilians in times of emergency, search and rescue, civil infrastructure works, riot control?

Of course you object to confrontation of internal armed militias, but is your grasp of reality so tenuous you can't see any of the benefits of military involvement in civilian matters?

[halloween]

22 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Again yours and everyone else's exaggeration of the violence is an insult to the common Thai.  Most Thais, as reflected by General Prim's comments, are growing weary of the junta, especially after seeing all the really nice watches.  Even the yellows I deal with are mortified by the ostentatiousness of Prawit and the lack of substantial contributions to the country's 99%.  Though you may not tire of peace at any price, many Thais are, including Abhisit.   Why does the army, in times of trouble, seize power instead of calling an election like South Korea did?

 

Your might makes right arguments have not lost their tedium.  

 

Guessing you are not a Jefferson fan:

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." Thomas Jefferson

 

Nobody has ever been able to answer why the Taiwanese are able to maintain representative government while the Thais cannot.  I would like to hear your less than ridiculous opinion. 

My, and everyone else's, 'exaggeration' vs your refusal to acknowledge it. Hardly fair is it, so you change the subject.

 

BTW the g/f's family weren't real happy about being pressured to donate to the cause (to be repaid tenfold when Thaksin returned, still waiting ) but what really offended them was the destruction of community property. Municipal offices were bad enough, but burning a fire-engine horrified them.

But that didn't happen, right?

Edited January 17, 2018 by halloween

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

The conversation would be much easier if you understood the meaning of the word. Do you rule out any military involvement in aid of civilians in times of emergency, search and rescue, civil infrastructure works, riot control?

Of course you object to confrontation of internal armed militias, but is your grasp of reality so tenuous you can't see any of the benefits of military involvement in civilian matters?

You are smart enough to know what I am referring but chose to obfuscate. I will question your grasp of reality and your reasoning that the military 12 coups benefits the people and not a selected group of elites. 

[jayboy]

33 minutes ago, halloween said:

My, and everyone else's, 'exaggeration' vs your refusal to acknowledge it. Hardly fair is it, so you change the subject.

 

BTW the g/f's family weren't real happy about being pressured to donate to the cause (to be repaid tenfold when Thaksin returned, still waiting ) but what really offended them was the destruction of community property. Municipal offices were bad enough, but burning a fire-engine horrified them.

But that didn't happen, right?

Huh? Your girlfriend's family contributed financially to a political cause on the basis they would be repaid ten fold! They sound a charming/intelligent bunch.

 

On the role of the army in society you appear to be struggling.It's actually very clear - defending territorial integrity, assistance in the event of national disasters.No involvement in politics, no business interests,subordinate to civilian control, procurement audited by civilians and based on need and not "what other countries have".No stupid PR stunts like grotesque Children Day ritual.No involvement in riot control - that's police work.No involvement in "infrastructure". Appropriate ratio of staff officers/rank and file.Indonesian Army which as ABRI had similarly poisonous role in past has right idea now - take a leaf from their book.Got it now?

 

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by jayboy

[yellowboat]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

My, and everyone else's, 'exaggeration' vs your refusal to acknowledge it. Hardly fair is it, so you change the subject.

 

BTW the g/f's family weren't real happy about being pressured to donate to the cause (to be repaid tenfold when Thaksin returned, still waiting ) but what really offended them was the destruction of community property. Municipal offices were bad enough, but burning a fire-engine horrified them.

But that didn't happen, right?

The acts of violence, though horrible, were not of the scale of some grand plague.  So yes, your's and the junta's constant exaggeration of past violence to subjugate over 48% of the country is unfair, wrong and an insult to the common Thai.  And those who wield the ultimate killing force in a country who then negate debate, negate assembly, negate scrutiny, negate participatory government are an abomination.  Wild guess but you are not crazy about Jefferson either

 

My condolences to your girlfriend's family for the travesties they suffered and witnessed at that time and for the lack of freedoms they must endure now.   

[halloween]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

Huh? Your girlfriend's family contributed financially to a political cause on the basis they would be repaid ten fold! They sound a charming/intelligent bunch.

 

On the role of the army in society you appear to be struggling.It's actually very clear - defending territorial integrity, assistance in the event of national disasters.No involvement in politics, no business interests,subordinate to civilian control, procurement audited by civilians and based on need and not "what other countries have".No stupid PR stunts like grotesque Children Day ritual.No involvement in riot control - that's police work.No involvement in "infrastructure". Appropriate ratio of staff officers/rank and file.Indonesian Army which as ABRI had similarly poisonous role in past has right idea now - take a leaf from their book.Got it now?

 

 

Yes they are lovely people pressured by 5 red thugs to donate, at a rate set by the thugs. Why you think that the lies they were told should reflect on them I don't understand.

I'm glad you agree  that EL's simplistic view was wrong - do you refute work such as carried out by the US Army Corps of Engineers, or S&R?

The rest of your views are yours alone though, why don't you share them with someone who cares.

[halloween]

3 hours ago, yellowboat said:

The acts of violence, though horrible, were not of the scale of some grand plague.  So yes, your's and the junta's constant exaggeration of past violence to subjugate over 48% of the country is unfair, wrong and an insult to the common Thai.  And those who wield the ultimate killing force in a country who then negate debate, negate assembly, negate scrutiny, negate participatory government are an abomination.  Wild guess but you are not crazy about Jefferson either

 

My condolences to your girlfriend's family for the travesties they suffered and witnessed at that time and for the lack of freedoms they must endure now.   

Since when does violence have to reach the scale of 'grand plague' for people to be happy that it has stopped? Let me guess, it didn't affect you so it didn't happen, as far you are concerned.  The reds committed many violent acts, their "leaders" incited it, and the Shinawatra's funded it.

To me and others that experienced it, that is far worse than an implied threat not carried out.

 

 

[yellowboat]

34 minutes ago, halloween said:

Since when does violence have to reach the scale of 'grand plague' for people to be happy that it has stopped? Let me guess, it didn't affect you so it didn't happen, as far you are concerned.  The reds committed many violent acts, their "leaders" incited it, and the Shinawatra's funded it.

To me and others that experienced it, that is far worse than an implied threat not carried out.

Those people who commit crimes should pay for them, not all of society.  An entire population should not be held hostage over the misdeeds of a few people.  The Red's are around 48% of the population and the vast majority were well behaved.  People can be happy it stopped, but should the rights of the entire country be marginalized over isolated incidents?

 

At the same token, if people are being adversely effected by the junta, how does that make you feel? Allow me to paraphrase you : Let me guess, it is affecting you so it is not happening, as far you are concerned?

 

There may come a day when the implied use of violence or bullying can no longer be tolerated, as options like debate and compromise are not available.  Hope that day does not come. 

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

 

I'm glad you agree  that EL's simplistic view was wrong - do you refute work such as carried out by the US Army Corps of Engineers, or S&R?

The rest of your views are yours alone though, why don't you share them with someone who cares.

You were struggling to understand what is the role of an army in a modern democracy.I provided you with the necessary information but then you impolitely suggest you "don't care."

 

One can take a horse to water..... etc etc.

[halloween]

11 hours ago, jayboy said:

You were struggling to understand what is the role of an army in a modern democracy.I provided you with the necessary information but then you impolitely suggest you "don't care."

 

One can take a horse to water..... etc etc.

Actually, you supplied me with your views, some of which I find less than interesting, as well as irrelevant.

[halloween]

11 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Those people who commit crimes should pay for them, not all of society.  An entire population should not be held hostage over the misdeeds of a few people.  The Red's are around 48% of the population and the vast majority were well behaved.  People can be happy it stopped, but should the rights of the entire country be marginalized over isolated incidents?

 

At the same token, if people are being adversely effected by the junta, how does that make you feel? Allow me to paraphrase you : Let me guess, it is affecting you so it is not happening, as far you are concerned?

 

There may come a day when the implied use of violence or bullying can no longer be tolerated, as options like debate and compromise are not available.  Hope that day does not come. 

And yet, where is the widespread unrest? When the people of Thailand were offended by the Thaksin amnesty and the criminal excesses of the red government, thousands took to the streets despite the violence inflicted on them by the red thugs. So why don't those so badly deprived of their rights do the same? Is your implied threat of the military more of a deterrent than the actual violence they faced, or do they simply not care enough to come out?

 

[candide]

37 minutes ago, halloween said:

And yet, where is the widespread unrest? When the people of Thailand were offended by the Thaksin amnesty and the criminal excesses of the red government, thousands took to the streets despite the violence inflicted on them by the red thugs. So why don't those so badly deprived of their rights do the same? Is your implied threat of the military more of a deterrent than the actual violence they faced, or do they simply not care enough to come out?

 

For such reasons maybe?

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/thailand

[yellowboat]

3 hours ago, halloween said:

And yet, where is the widespread unrest? When the people of Thailand were offended by the Thaksin amnesty and the criminal excesses of the red government, thousands took to the streets despite the violence inflicted on them by the red thugs. So why don't those so badly deprived of their rights do the same? Is your implied threat of the military more of a deterrent than the actual violence they faced, or do they simply not care enough to come out?

 

Think they are waiting for the junta to make good on their promises of elections, where the military leaders can be shamed and shown the door peacefully.  That, as you may remember, happened before when the military installed a puppet and the puppet lost.  The reds seem to be taking the high road in pointing out the junta is breaking laws they themselves rubber stamped.  They may just be waiting for history to repeat itself.  It may just be a matter of time when protests happen again should military not fulfill their promises. 

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, halloween said:

Actually, you supplied me with your views, some of which I find less than interesting, as well as irrelevant.

If you find topic relevant information which challenges your prejudices "uninteresting", so be it.