shady86 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I travel to Chiang Mai from Bangkok regularly for business trips and spends about 2-3 hrs in total for one way trip. If they could not make the travel time within 3 hrs, most people would still stick to flight unless train is significantly cheaper. Of course planes are prone to delays. For 600km route, the train needs to run at least 200km/h without any stops so 250km/h is ideal speed. Having lived in Japan and travelled in Taiwan and China, only high speed trains for long distance travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincolnshire poacher Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, jerry921 said: I'm not sure everyone fully appreciated the applicability of this suggestion. The LNER 4468 set the all-time steam speed record at 203kph, which would land it nicely in the middle of the new suggested 180-220kph target range. And of course steam is much more environmentally friendly than diesel, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_4468_Mallard Yes, diesel fuel is being phased out in developed countries, even more toxic than petrol, nevermind coal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 20 hours ago, transam said: About 80 years ago, this beautiful old girl achieved over 200km/h (126mph) on the English east coast mainline. A speed which may be achieved here in Thailand in my lifetime. The Thais will have to bite the bullet train and admit they are neither Japan or China, not even Taiwan. Perhaps they can aim for fast, comfortable, safe, on-time trains like they had in the UK 100 years ago. That would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Cadbury said: The speed of the train was never going to be 300kph as claimed in this story. It was always intended to be 250kph so a drop of around 50kph is not so big deal. Poor reporting. Yes. It was reported on 2015-06-10, "The northern Bangkok - Chiang Mai High Speed Train line's construction will be carried out in cooperation with Japan, using the Japanese Shinkansen train system on the standard gauge 1.435 meter track. The 672 kilometer high speed line will be capable of train services at over 200 kilometer per hour speed." http://thailand.prd.go.th/1700/ewt/asean/ewt_news.php?nid=299&filename=index I'm not sure that the speed was "always intended to be 250khp"; only that the minimum speed was going to exceed 200khp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, hansnl said: 200 km/h? Yes, even on 1 metre gauge! Where is that found? It was reported on 2015-06-10, "The northern Bangkok - Chiang Mai High Speed Train line's construction will be carried out in cooperation with Japan, using the Japanese Shinkansen train system on the standard gauge 1.435 meter track. http://thailand.prd.go.th/1700/ewt/asean/ewt_news.php?nid=299&filename=index I suspect that the Japanese will refuse to build its Shinkansen train system on any guage smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofarnorth Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 21 hours ago, CelticBhoy said: Does the bullet train then become the pea-shooter train? That or the Royal Enfield Bullet train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 21 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said: It defeats the point really having a fast train service go slower. Then again it is pointless having a BTS system that has so few carriages that there are so big queues, that using public transport to reduce road traffic congestion, is worthless. Must be another 'Thainess' concept I haven't got my head round, even after 17 years living here full time. Hardly worthless, between them they move about 1 million people every day, there is still congestion but it would be a whole lot worse without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupatria Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 HiSo creating HighSlow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, ratcatcher said: About 80 years ago, this beautiful old girl achieved over 200km/h (126mph) on the English east coast mainline. A speed which may be achieved here in Thailand in my lifetime. The Thais will have to bite the bullet train and admit they are neither Japan or China, not even Taiwan. Perhaps they can aim for fast, comfortable, safe, on-time trains like they had in the UK 100 years ago. That would be a start. Safe? Better they make them safe like the trains they have in the UK today than "safe" like the trains at the very height of railway accidents 100 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave67 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 54 minutes ago, lincolnshire poacher said: Maybe, but not on metre gauge I may have missed something where has metre gauge come into it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krataiboy Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Better get the kwai off the tracks first. On the usual clapped-out snail-pace trains, I have twice been delayed by a cow getting stuck under the wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave67 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, lincolnshire poacher said: Can you think of another country in the world that runs trains at 200 KmPH on metre gauge ? I can't Malaysia 180kph Build 160kph Line speed Pedang Basar -KL Edited January 19, 2018 by Dave67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Loh Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 "This means it is still too early to determine whether bullet trains will actually come to Thailand". May not even happen. So far the agreement signed between both countries was only a MOU. Nothing committed, not even due diligence. As some posters said, forget about this prestigious high cost high risk investments and just improve the current rail system to have more double and triple-tracked. More importantly reform the SRT inefficiency and a culture of resistant to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave67 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, Eric Loh said: "This means it is still too early to determine whether bullet trains will actually come to Thailand". May not even happen. So far the agreement signed between both countries was only a MOU. Nothing committed, not even due diligence. As some posters said, forget about this prestigious high cost high risk investments and just improve the current rail system to have more double and triple-tracked. More importantly reform the SRT inefficiency and a culture of resistant to change. SRT have 5 double track project going on Sino Thai and Ital Thai have 2 projects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike324 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Its not feasible to build bullet trains, there are only two high speed train lines in the world that actually make profit, one is in japan and the other in France if I remember correctly (both first world countries with high salaries). The others around the world are heavily subsidized. Not only that in China, they have high speed trains they link two cities with population of 20 million, they also fail to generate profit and are in heavy debt. Given how low the average Thai salary is, and the population that will link Bangkok to Chiangmai or the South, its simply not feasible. They should just go with trains that go around 240km/hr. That is plenty fast and will benefit folks who travel to the central Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neeray Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 It sounds like some expensive gifts might have to be returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) There is no doubt that they need to improve the train service. This image is one of a Bosnian train. Where is your pride? The train system here is how old? When was the last time it was seriously upgraded? If you want to call yourself a developing nation, and not one that is mired within the third world, you have to spend the money for that honor, Little P. Edited January 19, 2018 by spidermike007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadbury Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Srikcir said: Yes. It was reported on 2015-06-10, "The northern Bangkok - Chiang Mai High Speed Train line's construction will be carried out in cooperation with Japan, using the Japanese Shinkansen train system on the standard gauge 1.435 meter track. The 672 kilometer high speed line will be capable of train services at over 200 kilometer per hour speed." http://thailand.prd.go.th/1700/ewt/asean/ewt_news.php?nid=299&filename=index I'm not sure that the speed was "always intended to be 250khp"; only that the minimum speed was going to exceed 200khp. There seems to be a great deal of variation in the reporting of the speed of these trains. I took my information from Wiki which states 250kph (both the Japan and China lines) although that source does qualify 250kph as being the maximum. So maybe 200kph is norm while 250 is max. Who really knows? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Thailand#Bangkok-Chiang_Mai_Shinkansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) Well, they could always stick with the type of project they're organizationally suited for: Edited January 19, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 29 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Well, they could always stick with the type of project they're organizationally suited for: Or they could just put in normal tracks and an existing train and have it go both ways in reverse and call it "back to the future"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Krataiboy said: Better get the kwai off the tracks first. On the usual clapped-out snail-pace trains, I have twice been delayed by a cow getting stuck under the wheels. That'd be the bullock train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natway09 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 The concept that I always suggested was to upgrade to double track all the way & upgrade the existing rail which would enable as many trains a day to go on the route. The problem with this logical solution is the SRT (the worst Govt Dept on the planet) & the Government does not have so much wriggle room for retirement perks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, ratcatcher said: About 80 years ago, this beautiful old girl achieved over 200km/h (126mph) on the English east coast mainline. A speed which may be achieved here in Thailand in my lifetime. The Thais will have to bite the bullet train and admit they are neither Japan or China, not even Taiwan. Perhaps they can aim for fast, comfortable, safe, on-time trains like they had in the UK 100 years ago. That would be a start. But a very strange colour RC, everyone knows that steam locomotives that are designed to go fast are painted deep bronze green, with copper caps on the chimneys and brass safety valve covers... Remember - Swindon scrapped 'em at the clearances others built 'em at! Edited January 19, 2018 by JAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thian Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 19 hours ago, Dave67 said: The speed doesn't really make much difference to the price most tracks even metros have tolerances similar to high speed.Still the same viaducts, tunnels and land formation. Unless they are going for wooden sleeper and ballast,. But then again it was all probably bullshit from the start The brand new purple line is not exactly a smooth ride..it amazes me every time i use it, it's all new and made with laser technology i assume but there are plenty of bumps in the new tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thian Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 5 hours ago, AhFarangJa said: This is what they want.......... This is what they can afford........ Well they even can't buy new buses after the drama from 2 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave67 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, Thian said: The brand new purple line is not exactly a smooth ride..it amazes me every time i use it, it's all new and made with laser technology i assume but there are plenty of bumps in the new tracks. If they didn't do a dynamic weight bearing test or do one properly on a viaduct and/or tunnel. Monitoring the settlement basically until it stops sinking so it may be that and the viaduct or Tunnel has moved (Normal Standard for Dynamic bearing weight test 3 months). We had Tunnel sink in Malaysia so we had redesign the thickness of the track. Might be shoddy welding and grinding as well either onsite or in the factory, The rails are flash butted together and the brought to the site and welded into a continuous welded rail. If the bump is about every 150-200 metres it may be the site welds (AT) The laser technology is spot on adapted for the railway on a trolly with a screen with readings. Once you get the track spot on, No other work should take place after the survey only casting. Someone may have moved the track before casting putting formwork up (Happened to me a few times) So that's something else it could be It's a brand new railway so it shouldn't be happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Bull Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 It would still be three times faster than what they have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thian Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Dave67 said: If they didn't do a dynamic weight bearing test or do one properly on a viaduct and/or tunnel. Monitoring the settlement basically until it stops sinking so it may be that and the viaduct or Tunnel has moved (Normal Standard for Dynamic bearing weight test 3 months). We had Tunnel sink in Malaysia so we had redesign the thickness of the track. Might be shoddy welding and grinding as well either onsite or in the factory, The rails are flash butted together and the brought to the site and welded into a continuous welded rail. If the bump is about every 150-200 metres it may be the site welds (AT) The laser technology is spot on adapted for the railway on a trolly with a screen with readings. Once you get the track spot on, No other work should take place after the survey only casting. Someone may have moved the track before casting putting formwork up (Happened to me a few times) So that's something else it could be It's a brand new railway so it shouldn't be happening Well it's made by ItalThai and the carriages are made in Yokohama i noticed so they ordered the best quality for everything but still it's not perfect. But it seems you're in it, do you know why the purple line has to be so high above the ground? We need 2 long escalators to arrive at the deck and i don't understand why that is....half as high would also work fine me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhinhh Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Unfortunately there is a tendency worldwide to spend government money in pleasing voters by dealing gifts than into investment. A speed of at least 250 km would be a reasonable competion to airplains. With 180 km/h and 5 hours travel time includings stops you can forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Ray Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 That’s slower than the Intercity 125 (mph) introduced in the UK in 1976. Glad Thailand is forging ahead only 40 years behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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