Bangkok Air Pollution

[seb2015]

I woke up this morning having left it on overnight and got pm2.5 readings of 0 from my Sndway.

Thanks it’s quite inexpensive indeed.
What’s the size of the room you let it run in ?

[edwardandtubs]

5 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

This model?

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/xpx-32-jd55-i282680782-s460471561.html?ef_id=Cj0KCQjwuNbsBRC-ARIsAAzITuc4DJSBOUfE7R08jHsKTz98NV-s32ximtV4bmcQcpvRHAvCCBN6vxUaApp4EALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3152!3!286179630377!!!u!814718130886!&exlaz=d_1:mm_150050845_51350205_2010350205::12:1498579383!58089999096!!!pla-814718130886!c!814718130886!460471561!122458844!286179630377&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuNbsBRC-ARIsAAzITuc4DJSBOUfE7R08jHsKTz98NV-s32ximtV4bmcQcpvRHAvCCBN6vxUaApp4EALw_wcB

Yes.

[MaxYakov]

Is there any less PM2.5 pollution on the higher floors of high-rise buildings?

 

NOT SO, according to the folks that ran this test (article):

 

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/less-pm25-pollution-higher-lower-floor/

[beachbuggy]

Edwardandtubs 2 questions please, what is an sndway? Is it like a hand held monitor And are you sure the model discussed filters pm2.5. Cheers in advance

[beachbuggy]

edwardandtubs, my 2 questions resolved and now awaiting delivery of my xpx and aqi monitor. Cheers

[seb2015]

I’ve noticed that the rate at which my purifiers are cleaning the air at home is faster when I turn the aircon on .

Have you noticed the same ?

[manchega]

of course it will seb2015, you increase mass transport.

 

with respect to the higher buildings you need to be in an aeroplane to be above the seasonal dust, I don't beleive any Thai buildings are sufficiently high enough that any could claim lower dust levels.

[MaxYakov]

26 minutes ago, manchega said:

of course it will seb2015, you increase mass transport.

 

with respect to the higher buildings you need to be in an aeroplane to be above the seasonal dust, I don't beleive any Thai buildings are sufficiently high enough that any could claim lower dust levels.

Yep, read all about it at my comment and linked article HERE.

[manchega]

does thai visa know you are attempting to profit out of open source information on pollution?

not sure it is morally acceptable either.

 

[edwardandtubs]

Interesting article on fake 3M masks.

 

http://thairesidents.com/health/beware-fake-n95-masks-market-right-now/

 

I wouldn't trust any of the sellers on Lazada or other online marketplaces apart from the official 3M store. 

[bbi1]

9 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

Interesting article on fake 3M masks.

 

http://thairesidents.com/health/beware-fake-n95-masks-market-right-now/

 

I wouldn't trust any of the sellers on Lazada or other online marketplaces apart from the official 3M store. 

What's the official 3M Store? I was told by a few people here before that 3mdelivery.com was the official one. The 1st time I bought from them it validated on 3M as being a true copy. The 2nd time I validated on 3M (same 8210 mask but the US packaging) it said it was a fake: https://safeguard.3m.com/Guest#/Validation So it seems 3mdelivery.com are also selling fakes.

Edited October 22, 2019 by bbi1

[edwardandtubs]

3 hours ago, bbi1 said:

What's the official 3M Store? I was told by a few people here before that 3mdelivery.com was the official one. The 1st time I bought from them it validated on 3M as being a true copy. The 2nd time I validated on 3M (same 8210 mask but the US packaging) it said it was a fake: https://safeguard.3m.com/Guest#/Validation So it seems 3mdelivery.com are also selling fakes.

Lazada and similar marketplaces have official stores for big brands.

 

There's a link to 3Mdelivery on the main 3M website so it appears to be the official Thai website. I doubt the validation is foolproof. I would contact 3M US or UK and ask about it.

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by edwardandtubs

[TerraplaneGuy]

Can people please report their experience with air purifiers available in Thailand?  Above there's a bit about XPX purifiers and also DIY units (HEPA filter taped to a fan).   Do they work well?  Any other suggestions?  Dyson, other brands?  I've got a 2 bedroom condo, about 100 sq meters.  Looking for the best solution to PM2.5.  What about putting HEPA filters in existing aircon (mine are Daikin, one unit in each room) is that feasible?

[seb2015]

Can people please report their experience with air purifiers available in Thailand?  Above there's a bit about XPX purifiers and also DIY units (HEPA filter taped to a fan).   Do they work well?  Any other suggestions?  Dyson, other brands?  I've got a 2 bedroom condo, about 100 sq meters.  Looking for the best solution to PM2.5.  What about putting HEPA filters in existing aircon (mine are Daikin, one unit in each room) is that feasible?

HEPA filters on an aircon where the air intake is indoors can be a solution but you’d also need to add a carbon filter and you would run the risk of putting too much strain on the mechanism.

In my opinion (and I have a similar condo setup as yours) you can’t go wrong with purchasing a specific appliance.

Look around in this thread for specific models but I’ve rarely read a report of any air purifier defaulting badly , so any brand would do.

I have done 2 years with a couple of dyson purifiers (each one in a bedroom) and never had to worry much about indoor air quality (I changed the filters after 12 months). I get that you pay for the marketing but they’re not ugly looking, you get a live reading of your indoor air quality , they’re very silent and remotely controllable. We also purchased them on a 11.11 promo so that sealed the deal.

I ended buying a new unit (different brand though) for the lounge area mostly because I got fed up with moving the fans around in the apartment and needed something a bit more capable at handling the air volume of that room .

[wreckingcountry]

This is for the next 3 months ! Now worse than the worst Chinese cities ! But it is dealing with the issue ! Thailand does nothing !!!!


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[TerraplaneGuy]

14 hours ago, seb2015 said:

.....

I ended buying a new unit (different brand though) for the lounge area mostly because I got fed up with moving the fans around in the apartment and needed something a bit more capable at handling the air volume of that room .
 

 

Thanks.  Can you tell us what brand you got for the lounge and if it's doing a good job?  Also what kind of size/air volume capability would you recommend for that main room?  I'm seeing Dyson and Samsung on Thai websites, heard that Wynd is considered good in the U.S. but haven't seen it for sale here.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In the Thai market, Hatari makes a good purifier, the HT-AP12, that's widely available, well priced and has replacement filters easily available.

 

You also can look at the Xiaomi 2S, which has many of those same characteristics. Sharp and Philips make models you can find in a lot of the consumer electronics stores here.

 

Each unit may have different capacities, and those should be listed on the unit or its specs in terms of the size of sq. mt. it can filter. Obviously, you need to match up those capacities with the size and layout of your home, in terms of whether it's one big open space or has numerous closed off rooms. Most consumer units here seem to be sized for areas/rooms of 25 to 40 sq mt.

 

From an energy conservation perspective, it's better to only be running a purifier in the room(s) you're actually occupying at any given time.

 

In terms of specs:

--you want a unit with a "true" HEPA filter that's capable of filtering out particles down to the size of 0.3 microns.

 

Quote

Essentially, True HEPA air purifiers captures up to 99.97 percent of particles as small as 0.3 microns, which include a range of allergens and odors. On the other hand, a purifier with a HEPA Type filter is capable of capturing 99 percent of particles that are 2 microns or larger, such as pet dander and dust.

 

--you also want to check with the seller and/or manufacturer on the pricing of replacement filters, and just where you can buy them when needed in the future, as a lot of stores here that sell the purifiers don't sell the replacement filters for them.

 

--you don't want a unit that automatically operates with any kind of "ionizing" feature, as that can create ozone which itself is a respiratory irritant.

 

And ideally, you want either a purifier that has a built-in PM2.5 sensor/monitor, or you'd want to buy a decent standalone sensor for your home (they typically cost $40-$50), so either the unit itself or you manually by checking the sensor can turn its fan up or down to provide more or less air cleaning as conditions warrant.

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[wreckingcountry]

So do you use the purifier along with air con ?


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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, wreckingcountry said:

So do you use the purifier along with air con ?
 

 

Of course, the former keeps the air clean. The latter keeps the air cool...

 

I have been seeing advertising here lately about split air con units by Samsung and others that supposedly incorporate PM2.5 filtering capability. But I haven't seen much as yet in EN that tells me objectively how well those really work, what level of filtering they're doing, replacement filter requirements, etc etc.

 

The dual purpose AC units are a topic I'd like to learn more about....since using a dual purpose air con unit would seem to be more energy efficient that running separate air cons and air purifiers all the time.

 

The dual units don't seem to have been as much of an issue in the U.S. where I'm from, perhaps because of the more common use of central AC systems there, as well as many parts of the country not requiring AC at all during varying periods of the year -- unlike Thailand.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TerraplaneGuy]

14 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

In the Thai market, Hatari makes a good purifier, the HT-AP12, that's widely available, well priced and has replacement filters easily available.

 

You also can look at the Xiaomi 2S, which has many of those same characteristics. Sharp and Philips make models you can find in a lot of the consumer electronics stores here.

...

In terms of specs:

--you want a unit with a "true" HEPA filter that's capable of filtering out particles down to the size of 0.3 microns.

....

 

Thanks very helpful!  I checked the Hatari and it looks good but although it says it has a HEPA filter it doesn’t say “true HEPA”.  Do you know if it is “true” and how we would tell for this and other brands if they just say HEPA?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

38 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Thanks very helpful!  I checked the Hatari and it looks good but although it says it has a HEPA filter it doesn’t say “true HEPA”.  Do you know if it is “true” and how we would tell for this and other brands if they just say HEPA?

 

The "true" vs. "HEPA type" terminology seems to be used more in U.S. marketing and advertising of air purifier models. I don't think I've seen the same terms used here.

 

But the difference is still an important and valid one. So even absent clarity of the terms, what you want to be looking for in the specs and description of any particular unit is....

 

Quote

captures up to 99.97 percent of particles as small as 0.3 microns, 

 

Re the Hatari unit, I've looked at the product manual for it, and other related stuff, and can't find any specific mention of its HEPA status/capacity....

 

Hatari says -- "HEPA FILTER traps dust and foreign radicals up to 0.3 microns."  But that could be correct for a HEPA type filter vs. a true HEPA filter, because it's the 99.97% efficiency rating that makes something a "true" HEPA filter.

 

So my guess would be probably not... But the unit is relatively cheap at around 4000-5000b, and it has replacement filters readily available direct from Hatari. So I've found myself recommending it to folks (among other units) as it's a better solution than not using a purifier at all.  But I probably wouldn't buy one myself.

 

BTW, the Hatari specs do say it has a clean air delivery rate of 101 CFM (cubic feet per minute), which is a relatively low value.

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, I bought a Sharp model, FP-F30TA, that runs around 3000b+ and is sized for a 20 sq. mt. room. It is a True HEPA purifier, and has worked well for me for the past 1-1/2 years. Sharp TH also has quite a line of different purifiers, including larger capacity models. But you need to check on their source for available replacement filters, which sometimes can be a problem.

 

https://www.th.sharp/en/products/air-care/fp-f30ta?v=1192

 

 

https://www.th.sharp/en/products/air-purifier-0

 

And they have other more expensive units that are sized for spaces from 40 to 60+ sq. mts....

 

[TerraplaneGuy]

48 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Hatari says -- "HEPA FILTER traps dust and foreign radicals up to 0.3 microns."  But that could be correct for a HEPA type filter vs. a true HEPA filter, because it's the 99.97% efficiency rating that makes something a "true" HEPA

I wonder in practical terms how much difference it makes. For example say the Hatari only removes 90%.  If you’re living in BKK and breathing unfiltered air at least a few hours a day, perhaps the extra 9.97% home filtering may not make a big difference to your overall daily particle intake.   

Edited October 24, 2019 by TerraplaneGuy
Typo

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

I wonder in practical terms how much difference it’s makes. For example say the Hatari only removes 90%.  If you’re living in BKK and breathing unfiltered air at lease a few hours a day, perhaps the extra 9.97% home filtering may not make a big difference to your overall daily particle intake.   

Believe that is important point - any filtering is a big+++.  Have no issues getting below 10 (green aqi) measured across 26sm bedroom within 30 minutes after air out in even red aqi using Hatari at speed 2 fan.  Currently read 5 (21 aqi) 30 minutes after air out but outside aqi only in the 70 range today.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As I said above, that's why I mentioned the Hatari unit above, in response to your question -- widely available, reasonably priced, easy filter replacement... and SOME level of HEPA filtration.

 

But, for me, if I am going to spend 3000 to 5000 baht on an air purifier, and can have a model that achieves 99.97% PM2.5 filtration vs 95% or whatever, I'd probably choose the model with the better/higher filtering capacity as a general rule.

 

BTW, it also comes down to how air-tight your home/room is... The more bad air from outside that comes inside, the harder it is for your air purifier to keep up and keep the inside air clean. Whereas if you home/room is better sealed in terms of window and door jams, etc, then it's easier on the purifier and maybe a lesser level of HEPA filtration will still suffice. And of course, it also matters just how much/how bad the pollution outside is that you're trying to filter.

 

 

 

[TerraplaneGuy]

I'm now looking at a few of the recommended purifiers but since many do not have a built-in AQ monitor, any suggestions as to a good affordable monitor easily available in Thailand?  Hopefully something compact (for travel).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

I'm now looking at a few of the recommended purifiers but since many do not have a built-in AQ monitor, any suggestions as to a good affordable monitor easily available in Thailand?  Hopefully something compact (for travel).

 

This is a good product, whether you get it from Aliexpress or somewhere on Lazada....

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32826759103.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's a good inventory list of all the different air purifiers that PowerBuy online is selling... But with the caution, a lot of the air purifier models and brands here IMHO are ridiculously overpriced compared to what you'd pay for similar spec models bought in the U.S. by comparison. It's like the Thai companies market these things as a luxury product at luxury prices that regular Thai people wouldn't need to afford.

 

https://www.powerbuy.co.th/en/air-care/air-treatment

 

They also have a couple marked on sale through their online store, meaning the prices are only valid online, and not necessarily in their physical stores. For whatever reason, that's the way PowerBuy handles their online store vs. physical stores.

 

PS - Not recommending any of this... Just showing some sense of what models are available.

 

 

[TerraplaneGuy]

Thanks for the Powerbuy items.  I was in their Central Rama 9 store yesterday but there are more here online (not surprising).  Any thoughts on the Toshiba CAF-H20?  It looks pretty decent for the B4K range - not sure it's True HEPA but the rest of the specs look good, has pass rate CFM 200 and it has a built-in sensor which is handy.

https://www.powerbuy.co.th/en/toshiba-เครื่องฟอกอากาศ-14-24sqm-toshiba-caf-h20w-251615

 

Btw interestingly the Sharp FP-J30TA-B is not listed on online but is available in store for B3,390.  I'm having trouble figuring out the difference between that and the very similar Sharp FP-J30TA-A.  It's not the color.  The -B model can generate steam which I'm not sure the -A can (and I'm not sure why anyone would want steam unless maybe they live in a dry place unlike Thailand).

Edited October 25, 2019 by TerraplaneGuy
expand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Thanks for the Powerbuy items.  I was in their Central Rama 9 store yesterday but there are more here online (not surprising).  Any thoughts on the Toshiba CAF-H20?  It looks pretty decent for the B4K range - not sure it's True HEPA but the rest of the specs look good, has pass rate CFM 200 and it has a built-in sensor which is handy.

https://www.powerbuy.co.th/en/toshiba-เครื่องฟอกอากาศ-14-24sqm-toshiba-caf-h20w-251615

 

I believe I looked at that model before buying my Sharp unit, and I think (from memory of talking to Toshiba TH at the time) that the Toshiba units are using real HEPA filters...  Keep in mind, though, for that lowish price, it's a unit that tops out at handling a 24 sqm room size.