Bangkok Air Pollution

[xylophone]

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Air outside in BKK this morning is OK, not good, but not unhealthy either. The AQI scale and sensor readings say the low end of "Moderate."

 

I got my 2nd Sndway PM2.5 sensor in the mail yesterday, so now 1 in the bedroom and 1 in the living room/kitchen area. So I don't have to keep unplugging and moving the sensor every day when we move from one area to the other area.

 

When I woke up this morning, the living room area sensor -- which had no air con or purifier running overnight -- was reading about 15 mcg.

 

The bedroom sensor -- where aircon with Filtrete sheets and my Sharp purifier running on low were on overnight -- was reading 1 to 2 mcg.

 

Makes a big difference inside when the air outside isn't so bad as it had been in recent weeks.

 

I have thought about getting the Sndway monitor TGJBKK as I can smell "smoke/something" in the air (in my apt), but my question is what can I do about the situation if it reads high?

 

I have a largish Philips air purifier running continuously and have a new Mitsi aircon with the Filtrete sheets which runs at night, but can still smell something............even if I got one and the reading was high, what else is there to do??

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Couple issues there -- pollution from particles isn't necessarily the same thing as smell odors. So the first step I think is to try to identify which issue is bothering you and what the cause is. And a PM2.5 sensor will tell you whether you have a particle pollution problem.

 

To combat particle pollution, the sizing of your air purifier needs to be appropriate vs the area it needs to handle. Obviously, to function properly, the purifier needs to be sized to the space you're trying to clean. And the filters need to be replaced on an appropriate schedule

 

To combat smells, generally, generally it's the activated carbon (black) prefilter material that some air purifiers incorporate that can reduce smells. Dunno if your unit has that carbon prefilter. But even if it does, the carbon substance only has an effective life cycle of about 3 months, and after that, should be replaced.

 

Another thing you might try, which I did recently with good success, is to buy a bottle of Renuzit odor cleaning spray from HomePro. It doesn't do anything to remove or lessen pollution. But it's very effective at removing/neutralizing any smells. My wife brought some gang som soup into our bedroom last night, and stunk up the whole place bad. A few Renuzit sprays, and everything was back fresh.

 

Perhaps I also experienced what you're having recently when I was outside wearing a 3M N95 mask because of the bad air, and ended up walking past some people who were smoking. Even though my mask was well fitting and not leaking air, when I walked past, I could still smell the cigarette smell. In the 3M respirator face masks, AFAIK, there's no carbon element to deal with smells.

 

BTW, air con units that haven't been cleaned often enough and/or have developed mold inside can produce a musty, bad smell in the room.

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[edwardandtubs]

Air quality in an office in a Silom tower is in the healthy range (under 12), probably due to the central air conditioning blowing out clean air.

[jellydog]

The index looks much cleaner today. Less cars on the road in Bangkok ?

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, jellydog said:

The index looks much cleaner today. Less cars on the road in Bangkok ?

Yes and perhaps also important most of the the cooked food venders have gone upcountry.  

[VocalNeal]

^ Where there is smoke there is chicken. 

[mommysboy]

32 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Yes and perhaps also important most of the the cooked food venders have gone upcountry.  

There are a lot of daily hazards at street level.  I hadn't realized cooking fumes also produce pm2.5.  But what really gets to me in BKK is the poor ground ozone- I believe it's sunlight playing on atoms which tricks the body in to an immune reaction somewhat like hay fever.  Some suffer more than others, but it can become an unrelenting problem.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, jellydog said:

The index looks much cleaner today. Less cars on the road in Bangkok ?

 

And a decent breeze according to the weather reports, which helps blow the c**p somewhere else.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

There are a lot of daily hazards at street level.  I hadn't realized cooking fumes also produce pm2.5.  But what really gets to me in BKK is the poor ground ozone- I believe it's sunlight playing on atoms which tricks the body in to an immune reaction somewhat like hay fever.  Some suffer more than others, but it can become an unrelenting problem.

 

Usually, the ozone levels around Bangkok aren't reported as being nearly as bad as the particulates problem.

 

Here's a reading from a site in Samut Prakan today, with the O3 ozone level registering in the "green" healthy category all day.

 

[xylophone]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Couple issues there -- pollution from particles isn't necessarily the same thing as smell odors. So the first step I think is to try to identify which issue is bothering you and what the cause is. And a PM2.5 sensor will tell you whether you have a particle pollution problem.

 

To combat particle pollution, the sizing of your air purifier needs to be appropriate vs the area it needs to handle. Obviously, to function properly, the purifier needs to be sized to the space you're trying to clean. And the filters need to be replaced on an appropriate schedule

 

To combat smells, generally, generally it's the activated carbon (black) prefilter material that some air purifiers incorporate that can reduce smells. Dunno if your unit has that carbon prefilter. But even if it does, the carbon substance only has an effective life cycle of about 3 months, and after that, should be replaced.

 

Another thing you might try, which I did recently with good success, is to buy a bottle of Renuzit odor cleaning spray from HomePro. It doesn't do anything to remove or lessen pollution. But it's very effective at removing/neutralizing any smells. My wife brought some gang som soup into our bedroom last night, and stunk up the whole place bad. A few Renuzit sprays, and everything was back fresh.

 

Perhaps I also experienced what you're having recently when I was outside wearing a 3M N95 mask because of the bad air, and ended up walking past some people who were smoking. Even though my mask was well fitting and not leaking air, when I walked past, I could still smell the cigarette smell. In the 3M respirator face masks, AFAIK, there's no carbon element to deal with smells.

 

BTW, air con units that haven't been cleaned often enough and/or have developed mold inside can produce a musty, bad smell in the room.

 

 

 

Many thanks for your most helpful reply and you may well be right about the smell, because that was one of my main worries – – if I could smell smoke (or something like it) was I also breathing in particles?

 

I changed the Filtrete sheets on my Aircon about two months ago, however after your post I decided to have another look at them and I have to say they are very grey looking so I will change them again tomorrow.

 

As for the air purifier, well it is supposed to be able to handle 42 m² and I have only just changed the HEPA filter on it, although I didn't change the activated charcoal one, but perhaps I should although it doesn't seem clogged up with anything at all.

 

The air con unit is about six months old and it was cleaned a few months ago, but I may well do that again as well.

 

Also thanks for the tip about the spray and I will look out for some.

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Air outside in BKK this morning is OK, not good, but not unhealthy either. The AQI scale and sensor readings say the low end of "Moderate."

 

I got my 2nd Sndway PM2.5 sensor in the mail yesterday, so now 1 in the bedroom and 1 in the living room/kitchen area. So I don't have to keep unplugging and moving the sensor every day when we move from one area to the other area.

 

When I woke up this morning, the living room area sensor -- which had no air con or purifier running overnight -- was reading about 15 mcg.

 

The bedroom sensor -- where aircon with Filtrete sheets and my Sharp purifier running on low were on overnight -- was reading 1 to 2 mcg.

 

Makes a big difference inside when the air outside isn't so bad as it had been in recent weeks.

 

Since you have two of the same sensors, do you see any discrepancy between the two units when you place them side by side, both at high and low PM2.5 levels?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Fyi, I only get abiut 2 weeks out of each Filtere sheet in my bedroom AC.

 

As for ourifier filters, the carbon should be changed way more often than the HEPA, about every 3 minths, espec. If you're concerned about smells.

 

The carbon helps keep bigger oarticles off yr HEPA filter. But if it's not old, it will also help eliminate odors. Double purpose.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Since you have two of the same sensors, do you see any discrepancy between the two units when you place them side by side, both at high and low PM2.5 levels?

 

I havent had any reason to do that yet. Ive got one in the bedroom and the other in our living area.

Edited April 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[balo]

I have arrived BKK for a few days to escape Pattaya. And I had to do some shopping in Suk 20 so I took the gadget with me. To my surprise when I was walking on the sidewalk down from Phrom Phong BTS to the Asoke area I measured only 18 to 25 , so almost perfect outside air. When I passed a couple of city buses it went up to 50 for a few seconds , then back to 20 again . I was not expecting it but we had a light breeze today so maybe that could explain it. Also maybe less cars on the road than normal.

[edwardandtubs]

Always very clean air in Bangkok over Songkran. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[xylophone]

17 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Fyi, I only get abiut 2 weeks out of each Filtere sheet in my bedroom AC.

May I thank you once again for your assistance and give you a little feedback on something I found.........

 

I decided to change the Filtrete seats on my Aircon (I only have one and that is the newly installed Mitsubishi Mr Slim inverter) because as I said, they were looking a little grey. What I decided to do was to remove the old ones at night before I went to bed and install the old ones the next morning.

 

Imagine my surprise when I switched the Aircon on and it was so much more powerful and cooling without the sheets in, so I left that alone for the night and have to say that the temperature was very good and there was no problem at all.

 

I have put it on dehumidifier this morning and again the cooling effect is much greater, as well as the air output from the Aircon. I can only assume that the sheets have lessened the efficiency of the Aircon unit, and added to that I did notice that since the sheets have been added my electricity bill has gone up by some 20%!

 

I have a theory on it and it goes like this – – the cooling fan is powered by a little induction motor and these little things can go on forever, and if there is an increased load on them, they can slow up and not suffer any ill effects, and of course because they are so small they don't really affect the power consumption. BUT what can happen is (I believe) because the airflow is diminished and so is the cooling effect, the Aircon has to work a lot harder for a lot longer to get down to the 23° that I want, and I did notice that on several occasions when I woke up, because the Aircon seemed to be working almost non-stop all night, whereas before it wasn't, and after the sheets had been removed it didn't last night.

 

It seems to be a plausible explanation and I'll have to find another way to filter out the air in the room, but having said that I do have a spare Sharp air purifier which I originally had, so I will get that out of storage and put that on a low setting in the bedroom area at night, as well as having the Philips one running full-time and see what happens.

 

Once again thank you for your information and advice.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

33 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I have put it on dehumidifier this morning and again the cooling effect is much greater, as well as the air output from the Aircon. I can only assume that the sheets have lessened the efficiency of the Aircon unit, and added to that I did notice that since the sheets have been added my electricity bill has gone up by some 20%!

 

Thanks for the interesting, helpful post.  I found that on the most recent month, my electrical bill went up by that amount or more, but the problem in my case is trying to correctly identify the causes of that.

 

At the same time I put Filtrete sheets on my bedroom air con, I began running a large Honeywell air purifier in my living room, and the shortly thereafter bought and added a smaller Sharp purifier for the bedroom, and use each depending on which room we're in. Plus, during March, a lot of days the pollution was pretty bad outside, so I was running them a lot -- less so in this past week.

 

So in my case, I was expecting and planning for a higher electric bill. But it's hard for me to narrow down just how much of that is related to the Filtrete sheets on my bedroom air con, which also happens to be a Mitsu Mr. Slim model.  For the past month or so, I haven't had to change either the temperature or fan setting on my unit despite having added the Filtrete sheets.

 

But these past two days, it felt warmer in the bedroom on those same settings, so I turned down the temp 1 degree and turned up the fan to medium. However, right now, the sheets on the AC have been in place for almost two weeks, so I'm guess it's time for a change.  I'll be interested to see once I put on new sheets today, will I be able to revert to my prior comfort level settings, 25C and low fan.

[edwardandtubs]

I don't think Filtrete is good value for money compared to an air purifier. I recently bought a buy one get one free offer on the 96 inch rolls for 500 baht and that probably won't last longer than a couple of months.

 

Last night I had the air conditioning on fan only in my living room and when I tested the air this morning it was less than half as bad as the outdoor air. A good air purifier improves the air by over 90% and the filters require replacing less frequently so I think in the long term you'd be better off with a decent air purifier alone.

Edited April 13, 2018 by edwardandtubs

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My thinking is -- if you're going to be running the AC anyway, why not use a better filtering system on it -- unless doing do adds significantly to the electric cost of operation. It may add some, but how much I think is an open question, especially if you're changing the Filtrete sheets regularly. It's when they get clogged up that the loss of cooling effect and potentially higher electrical bills become bigger issues. But I don't think we really have enough practical experience and testing with them to know for sure just what is the impact.

 

I just remember, before I started using Filtrete sheets or a purifier in my bedroom, I would get A LOT of dust build up landing on my tables and surface tops even though the bedroom windows are always closed. Now, I get almost none, but it's hard to say how much of that is related to the Filtrete sheets and how much related to the purifier, since I started using them both at about the same time.

 

The one other thing I do know for certain, because I tested it, is the Filtrete sheets alone DO help reduce PM2.5 in a room even in the absence of a purifier. So if anyone here is NOT running a purifier, they should at least be using Filtrete sheets instead, and changing them regularly.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, I guess I can tell why I had to turn down the temp and turn up the fan on my bedroom AC the past two days.

 

Here's what the Filtrete sheets on my bedroom AC look like after 10 days of use vs a brand new sheet.

 

 

And here's what the 10 day use Filtrete sheet looks like vs the dark gray (time to change now) indicator on the strips that come with the sheets. (On the circular indicator strip, the lightest color means 1 month remaining, the light gray means two weeks remaining, and the dark gray means time to change.)  My sheets after 10 days use were definitely in the dark gray / time to change category.

 

 

And that's with running my bedroom purifier on medium or low -- whatever speed is necessary to keep the PM2.5 levels very low.  Usually at night, with the purifier on medium fan and the aircon on low fan, the PM2.5 levels in my bedroom stay in the 0 - 2 mcg levels.

 

So if I'm going to change my Filtrete sheets every week to 10 days on my two bedroom aircon permanent filters, I need to see how long one of their large 96 inch rolls is going to last for that purpose, and thus the ongoing cost of using them (electricity aside).

 

As I mentioned in a prior post, for the past month or so, I hadn't ever needed to turn up my bedroom air con fan or turn down the air con temperature in order to remain comfortable, even after I started using the Filtrete sheets. Until just the past two days with pretty dirty Filtrete sheets being used. Now with fresh/clean ones installed, be interested to notice/assess the difference, if any, tonight.

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[xylophone]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Well, I guess I can tell why I had to turn down the temp and turn up the fan on my bedroom AC the past two days.

 

Here's what the Filtrete sheets on my bedroom AC look like after 10 days of us vs a brand new sheet.

 

 

And here's what the 10 day use Filtrete sheet looks like vs the dark gray (time to change now) indicator on the strips that come with the sheets. (On the circular indicator strip, the lightest color means 1 month remaining, the light gray means two weeks remaining, and the dark gray means time to change.)  My sheets after 10 days use were definitely in the dark gray / time to change category.

 

And that's with running my bedroom purifier on medium or low -- whatever speed is necessary to keep the PM2.5 levels very low.  Usually at night, with the purifier on medium fan and the aircon on low fat, the PM2.5 levels in my bedroom stay in the 0 - 2 mcg levels.

 

So if I'm going to change my Filtrete sheets every week to 10 days on my two bedroom aircon permanent filters, I need to see how long one of their large rolls is going to last for that purpose, and thus the ongoing cost of using them (electricity aside).

 

 

 

As I mentioned in a prior post, for the past month or so, I hadn't ever needed to turn up my bedroom air con fan or turn down the air con temperature in order to remain comfortable, even after I started using the Filtrete sheets. Until just the past two days with pretty dirty Filtrete sheets being used. Now with fresh/clean ones installed, be interested to notice/assess the difference, if any, tonight.

 

Jeez TGJBKK...........are you running a diesel generator indoors to supply your electricity?!

 

Never seen anything like that in just a couple of weeks!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 days in a closed bedroom, never open the windows. But we do run the bedroom air con probably on average about 12 hours per day. BTW, no one smokes in our home/bedroom or anything else like that.

 

---------------------------------

 

Just an update, I did put new Filtrete sheets on this morning, and since today is Songkran holiday, the wife is home and we've been having a lazy day in bed. In our bedroom, our Mitsu inverter air con is on the wall immediately above the head of our bed.

 

And I can say with certainty, as soon as I put the new Filtrete sheets on this morning, the air flow coming out of the air con and the volume of cool air increased markedly. So I pretty quickly was able to turn the thermostat back to 25C (from 24) and the fan back to low (from medium), and still be comfortable.  And I'm 500-600 meters off the main road on a soi with almost no vehicle traffic.

 

So at least in our home, it's pretty much looking like I'm only going to get a good one week of service out of the Filtrete sheets on our bedroom air con.  Anything longer than that, and the air con effectiveness begins to decline noticeably.  Prior to this past week, I had been changing the sheets weekly, and never noticed any degradation. So I had decided try to go for a two week cycle, which obviously didn't work out.

 

I think the bottom line for Filtrete sheets in my experience is -- clean ones have very little impact on the cool air flow from an air con. But once the sheets begin accumulating gunk on their surface, that's when the air con effectiveness begins to decline noticeably.

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The air outside in BKK today continues to remain pretty good -- at the low end of the yellow "Moderate" scale at 1 pm based on the Chula Hospital sensor reading. 65 AQI, which is about 19 mcg PM2.5.

 

At my home in lower Suk, as of 3:30 pm, the indoor reading in our living room with no purifier or air con on is about 15 mcg.  While the reading in our bedroom with the Filtrete air con and air purifier on is bouncing between 0 and 2 mcg.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

10 days in a closed bedroom, never open the windows. But we do run the bedroom air con probably on average about 12 hours per day. BTW, no one smokes in our home/bedroom or anything else like that.

Well I suppose the $64,000 question is; where is this muck coming from??

 

Poorly fitting sliding doors/other doors or window frames? Maybe time to look at the seals on these TGJBKK?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

40 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Well I suppose the $64,000 question is; where is this muck coming from??

 

Poorly fitting sliding doors/other doors or window frames? Maybe time to look at the seals on these TGJBKK?

 

I live in an older rented house with windows that aren't very well sealed. In the bedroom, there's a row of three adjoining large windows with the same kind of old style fittings. But the other three walls are all solid.

 

Bottom line -- I think the muck is coming from the BKK air. If it wasn't being absorbed by my Filtrete air con sheets, presumably, it would eventually end up on my purifier filters.

 

However, notwithstanding the older style windows and fittings, I have no trouble keeping the PM2.5 levels in my bedroom in the 0-2 mcg range by running the air con with Filtrete and my purifier.

 

What I may try in the future is take a break from using the Filtrete sheets, just run the air con with its regular permanent filters, and use the HEPA air purifier, and see what kinds of difference that makes in the room.

 

In my case, I pretty much started using the Filtrete sheets on my bedroom air con and my Sharp purifier in the bedroom at about the same time. So I haven't really had a chance yet to see what happens if I use the purifier only without the Filtrete sheets.

 

However, my layman's sense is -- my 9000 btu Mitsu air con even on low fan seems to put out more airflow than my smaller Sharp air purifier does, certainly when it's on low or medium fan. My air con has a 24 inch wide output grill, while my Sharp purifier's outlet grill is about 8 inches wide.

 

BTW, the photos I posted earlier of my 10-day used Filtrete sheets on the bedroom air con were from having 100% of the air con unit's permanent filter areas covered with the Filtrete media. And when I remove the Filtrete sheets, needless to say, the underlying permanent filters are still spotless clean.

 

PS - Part of the reason I've been posting a lot about this lately is -- about 6 weeks in -- it's all an experiment to find out what works, what doesn't work, and what's the most efficient/cost effective means of maintaining good air quality in the room. I started out in the all-out attack mode with a bunch of new gear. But now, with a bit of experience and sensors in hand, I can try scaling back and see how to keep the same or nearly the same clean air in the room without using so much electric power, hopefully.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[xylophone]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Bottom line -- I think the muck is coming from the BKK air.

True enough, but in a room which has been closed with no open windows it has to be coming in from the outside somehow............are the windows that badly sealed?

 

Could always try to seal them with special sealing tape?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, xylophone said:

True enough, but in a room which has been closed with no open windows it has to be coming in from the outside somehow............are the windows that badly sealed?

 

Could always try to seal them with special sealing tape?

 

May try that, since at this point in my learning process, there's not a lot of situations here where I'm going to want to open the windows to let outside air in.

 

But I think you also need to keep in mind, a bedroom has a lot of in-house dust generation going on. It's the place you sleep and shed skin cells, have mattress and box springs or bed platform, you have sheets and blankets or comforters and pillows that shed, you come out of the shower and towel dry, maybe use after-shower powder, etc etc. Apart from the stuff that comes seeping in from outside.

 

[xylophone]

20 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

May try that, since at this point in my learning process, there's not a lot of situations here where I'm going to want to open the windows to let outside air in.

 

But I think you also need to keep in mind, a bedroom has a lot of in-house dust generation going on. It's the place you sleep and shed skin cells, have mattress and box springs or bed platform, you have sheets and blankets or comforters and pillows that shed, you come out of the shower and towel dry, maybe use after-shower powder, etc etc. Apart from the stuff that comes seeping in from outside.

 

A learning process for me too!

 

However may I respectfully suggest that the pic of the clogged filter would have to be a lot more than the internal stuff that we all have to put up with.

 

Today I checked and sealed the ranch slider windows I have here and put a Filtrete mesh over the small bathroom window, and I also researched negative and positive pressure rooms!! 

 

https://powervacamerica.com/project/negative-truth-about-outdoor-allergies-air-filters-and-room-air-purifiers/  

 

A positive pressure room stops the ingress of external air and I remember it worked well on an oil rig I was on!! 

 

Pondering getting a small extractor fan (reversible) and fitting it with a multi-layered filter over the small bathroom window and running it on low to see if that does the trick of keeping the dust and crap out by creating a positive pressure environment.

 

I'm going through all this trouble because I really like the small apartment I am in, because it is one in a block of only eight apartments and I have been here five years or thereabouts. It suits me and I know the owners very well and they are very good to me (and I do favours for them to) and there is a place to park my car and motorbike and when I am away they also keep an eye on those, not to mention collecting the mail etc.

 

The place would be perfect if I can stop this "smell" of burning which I think is in the atmosphere here, however I don't mind it staying outside as long as it doesn't "seep" into my room!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My thinking on this is evolving and flexible.

 

If we now have, perhaps, actually ended the high smog/PM2.5 season in Bangkok, and presumably won't see its return in full force again until maybe November, I may consider a trial of removing the bedroom air con Filtrete sheets now and see how the purifier alone does in the bedroom during times of relatively low pollution outside.

 

But, I just put on a new set of Filtrete sheets a day or so ago, so I'm going to let them go another week before beginning that purifier only trial.

 

[mommysboy]

Somebody asked if smoking is as bad as air pollution.  During my research on e-cig safety I may have stumbled on the answer:https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282732006_Particulate_Matter_from_Electronic_Cigarettes_and_Conventional_Cigarettes_a_Systematic_Review_and_Observational_Study

 

While non smoking and ecigarette were  safe at under 10, the cigarette smoking room was 58 times higher, which sounds rather significant to me.

 

(Still, the good news is nothing to fear from ecigs  on this measure)

Edited April 14, 2018 by mommysboy