Thinking of retiring

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I pity the people who still don't understand or refuse to acknowledge the difference between a visa and a permission to stay.

For the last time, visa is a permission to enter a country. It does not give you the rights to stay in foreign land. The permission to stay in a country is determined by an immigration when u enter a country.

Sent from my BND-L34 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

False and misleading comments.

[Swimman]

6 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

False and misleading comments.

Please explain what you believe to be "false and misleading comments'  I don't see any 

[watcharacters]

On 1/31/2018 at 10:01 AM, BritTim said:

I understand your point, and I hope I am not rude. That said, having to explain the difference between a visa and extension of stay in 60% of cases where questions are asked about staying in Thailand for retirement or staying with Thai family becomes irritating. A thread that ought to be three or four posts long ends up running to pages where incorrect advice is given based on incorrect assumptions, and (apart from clarifying what the OP is asking) misleading responses also need to be corrected.

 

Maybe, this is easier for the OP than doing a little reading before posting, but I do not think it is polite.

 

I've never had an issue with a visa or "permission to stay"   But I am curious.

 

Is the terminology of visa or "permission to stay"  common to most countries?

 

Just asking.

 

[Swimman]

31 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

I've never had an issue with a visa or "permission to stay"   But I am curious.

 

Is the terminology of visa or "permission to stay"  common to most countries?

 

Just asking.

 

It is not important what is common in other countries when a topic is about Thailand.

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, watcharacters said:

Is the terminology of visa or "permission to stay"  common to most countries?

While the distinction may exist to some extent in other countries, it is much more important than in other countries I have spent time. In most countries, a long stay visa and permission to stay has the same expiry date.

[onera1961]

On 4/21/2018 at 11:02 PM, Swimman said:

Is the terminology of visa or "permission to stay"  common to most countries?

I have been to more than a dozen countries without a visa. But all countries stamps a "permission to stay" (wordings may be different) until date.

 

For example, last summer when I entered UK, the immigration asked me how long do you intend to stay. I said 30-days. The stamped me for 30-days. Another time, I was transiting through UK and they asked me how long? I said I am transiting. They stamped me 48 hours.

[onera1961]

On 1/26/2018 at 6:25 PM, yooper said:

You need to come into Thailand wth a Non Immigrant type O visa

Where on US soil you can get such a visa? No consulate in the US issues such a visa. All Non-O visas are for family visit only. 

[gk10002000]

On 1/26/2018 at 7:25 PM, yooper said:

Just finished going thru the whole mess. I am 71, wife is 67.   We were told by numerous sources including the Thai Embassy in Chicago, US embassy in Bangkok, and a couple of Thai Immigration people that my wife could regain her Thai citizenship but it is not true. If you move permanently to Thailand she may regain citizenship after 5 years but immigration laws here change quite frequently.  You can get a retirement visa quite easily and don't need a bank account to get it although you will want one for personal reasons I can discuss with you later if you wish.  You need to come into Thailand wth a Non Immigrant type O visa, not a tourist visa. After you arrive you make an appointment at the US embassy to execute a sworn affidavit that your monthly income is xxxxxx, it has to be greater than THB 65,000.  When you arrive, be sure your landlord reports your address to immigration, you will need that proof.  We came on a 1 yr O-visa to insure there was time to accomplish everything, we rented an apartment and have a permanent address.  

 

This is the template I followed, the only glitch was that it doesn't mention the proof of previous address reporting,  it was easily resolved.

http://www.samutprakanimmigration.go.th/listof-documents-for-retirement-visa/

 

I highly recommend this immigration office, they are extremely friendly even  if they were mistaken that my wife should be able to regain her citizenship.  It turns out that is because she is a 'foreign citizen" (w/ foreign passport) who has a permanent residence outside of Thailand.  Exceptions can be made if a spouse dies and the Thai person returns to Thailand permanently but true knowledge among Thai 'officials' seems to be scarce.  

 

With a retirement visa, you still need to do a 'border run' once a year, and report your address every 90 days but apparently the reporting can now be done online, and an annual border run can be enjoyable and inexpensive. Upon re-entry you get another year permission to stay.... up to 10 years, who knows what new rules will be around by then?

 

Interesting that this fellow states 5 years residency in Thailand for his Thai wife was needed.  Most others seem to refute that.  I am not sure they are talking about the same thing,...i.e. residence versus citizenship?  I have never heard of citizenship having a waiting period.  You either have it or you don't.

[onera1961]

3 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I have never heard of citizenship having a waiting period.  You either have it or you don't.

US has waiting period of 5 years after getting permanent residency (Green card). If spouse is a citizen, the waiting period is 3 years.

[gk10002000]

8 hours ago, onera1961 said:

US has waiting period of 5 years after getting permanent residency (Green card). If spouse is a citizen, the waiting period is 3 years.

I understand, and I think Canada has a similar thing.  I meant to say a native born citizen doesn't have to re-establish citizenship (except for normal paperwork processing times)

[KhaoYai]

19 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Interesting that this fellow states 5 years residency in Thailand for his Thai wife was needed.  Most others seem to refute that.  I am not sure they are talking about the same thing,...i.e. residence versus citizenship?  I have never heard of citizenship having a waiting period.  You either have it or you don't.

Not so. Despite stories to the opposite Thailand does not allow dual citizenship. Children born with a foreign father have dual citizenship but must decide which one they want by the time they are 18 (or is it 20?) If they choose their fathers nationality they must denounce their Thai citizenship. That is the actual law however, in pratcice it never happens because nobody ever tells the authorities the child has left - and I've never heard of it being followed up anyway.

 

Thai women who marry a foreigner technically lose their citizenship if they obtain citizenship from their husband's country.  I say technically because lattitude is given for them alone in case the marriage fails and they return home.  Again though, that is the law and in practice they never notify the Thai authorities that they have another passport - they simply keep both passports up to date.  Years ago Thai women who showed both passports when they returned to Thailand on holiday often had their Thai passport confiscated at immigration on arrival.  I'm told that after some argument and time, they usually had their passport returned to them but I haven't seen any change in the law.  For this reason most now enter and leave Thailand on their Thai passport.

Edited April 24, 2018 by KhaoYai

[flexomike]

On 1/26/2018 at 8:15 PM, yooper said:

Well, the Thai embassy in Chicago said we can only get a new ID card in Thailand, they do issue passports if you have an ID. We have all the documents you mention and are denied. Thanks for your opinion anyway.

Both my wife and her son got new Thai ID cards from the Chicago Consulate, two years ago maybe things have changed but i don't think so

[KiChakayan]

On 1/27/2018 at 7:36 AM, bkk6060 said:

You have 2,000 US a month for rent you can live like a king in CM.

Hmmmhh... Maybe, but a poor king...

Old debate but if you live western style anywhere in Thailand, the only thing that's cheaper here is Thai food..

 

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Not so. Despite stories to the opposite Thailand does not allow dual citizenship. Children born with a foreign father have dual citizenship but must decide which one they want by the time they are 18 (or is it 20?) If they choose their fathers nationality they must denounce their Thai citizenship.

Not correct.

The nationality act does not prohibit or allow dual nationalities. Many people have Thai and other nationalities.

At the age of 20 a child has the choice to choose a nationality it they want to. Prior to age of 20 it was their parents choice. It is not mandatory for them to give up one of their nationalities.

[gk10002000]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not correct.

The nationality act does not prohibit or allow dual nationalities. Many people have Thai and other nationalities.

At the age of 20 a child has the choice to choose a nationality it they want to. Prior to age of 20 it was their parents choice. It is not mandatory for them to give up one of their nationalities.

Does not prohibit or allow...  So is the law ambiguous or simply does not address the issue completely?  Is this why there are some differing reports or statements from people

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Is this why there are some differing reports or statements from people

Most of the incorrect info comes from people reading outdated info. The nationality act has been amended several times.

[onera1961]

52 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Does not prohibit or allow...  So is the law ambiguous or simply does not address the issue completely?  Is this why there are some differing reports or statements from people

Law is ambiguous for US citizens also. In fact, there are no laws that allow explicit dual citizenship. However, on numerous occasions US federal court has uphold that one could not lose US citizenship because the person had acquired the citizenship of another country. 

 

US state department does not like dual citizenship. Their stand is if you enter a country with a non- US passport, don't come for consulate help in case of emergency. 

Years ago, my friend (US and Venezuelan  passport holder) when he was 19 was drafted in National army after he entered Venezuela with a Venezuelan passport and US embassy said no. we could not do anything.  His mother (a born US citizen) had to get the help of her senator to intervene and get him out of Venezuela after almost 6 months. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by onera1961

[allen303]

The State Department could care less. My wife has duel Thai and US Passports, but her middle name is not on the Thai Passport. Thai immigrations suggested she get an affidavit from the US Embassy to state both PP are for the same person. Made an appointment, then went to Embassy and paid the $50.00. The lady at the window took both PP and put the stamp on the affidavit stating they were both the same person, no question, no problem. Then she took the affidavit and had it translated to Thai, Thai immigration happy. Bata Bing Bata Boom

[Swimman]

1 hour ago, allen303 said:

Thai immigrations suggested she get an affidavit from the US Embassy to state both PP are for the same person.

 

But how or why did Thai immigration have both passports?

[allen303]

Reference a New Thai ID card. I am not an expert by no means but I did stay at a Motel Six one time.

When the wife and I decided to retire in Thailand around 8 years ago we started planning. She had not had a Thai ID card for over 35 years. So approximately 7 years ago we did the 30 day trip to Bangkok. The wife and one of her sisters went to the office in Bangkok to get her Thai ID. They informed her she would have to go to Ubon (where she was born) to get the proper papers. So we made a road trip to Ubon and linked up with her two other sisters in Ubon (Five sister Total!). They went to the office, all three of them, and talked to the little guy behind a desk in Ubon. I had to feel sorry for him! They talked to him and he took all her information down and said he would take care of it. They offered him 300 bath for all the trouble he was having to go through, he refused at first but then relented and took the money. He then stated, you come back tomorrow and the paper work will be ready. FYI, she did not have a birth certificate for at that time in Ubon their mother did not go and register her birth at the hospital, but just in the house book. The wife picked up the copy of the house book which she was in and we came back to Bangkok. The wife and sister went back to the office in Bangkok with the copy of her house book, and they issued her a Thai ID card. She goes the next day and applies for her Thai PP. The catch was, the wife had to go back to the place where she was born to get a certified copy of the house book.

In reference to my statement earlier about the US Thai PP, That was just last week.

[Swimman]

7 minutes ago, allen303 said:

In reference to my statement earlier about the US Thai PP, That was just last week.

I must be missing something - Whilst I have no doubt the process of obtaining a Thai ID card and Passport was interesting it would seem that the Thai Immigration Service was never involved.

[allen303]

The wife entered Thailand with an O Visa as I did. The wife and sister were checking on the paper work for me being in a yellow book and extension based on retirement, I was not present in the office. The subject came up on what the wife had to do because she was a Thai citizen and she showed the US PP and Thai PP. The lady went ahead and did all her paper work right then for her to stay for one year. The lady then suggested about the discrepancies in the two PP with the middle name. I know, next time as per advice from Ubonjoe, she will enter with her Thai PP.

[allen303]

The wife and I both entered Thailand on March 20 of this year. The lady at the immigration office did the wife’s paper work early instead of making her wait till 30 days out. We don’t go to the main office in Bangkok, unsure which one it is we have to go to. They were very helpful to the wife.

[allen303]

Sorry, two whole different subject. The first was about having US/Thai PP. The second subject was about getting a new Thai ID card, two different branches of Thai government.

[KhaoYai]

15 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not correct.

The nationality act does not prohibit or allow dual nationalities. Many people have Thai and other nationalities.

At the age of 20 a child has the choice to choose a nationality it they want to. Prior to age of 20 it was their parents choice. It is not mandatory for them to give up one of their nationalities.

It is correct. Many Thai people have other nationalities  but without the knowledge of the Thai authorities and children do (officially) have to choose which nationality they wish to retain when they reach 20.  As I said in the previous post, that's the official standpoint - many Thai's living abroad have indeed taken up another nationality but not notified thir homeland.  Likewise, I've never heard of a child making the choice. 

 

Perhaps you'd like to read the Nationality Act of B.E 2508, amended in B.E. 2535 and again in B.E. 2536??

---

CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship laws are based on the Nationality Act of 1965 with Amendment No.2 AD 1992 and Amendment No.3 AD 1993.

 

 

BY BIRTH: Birth within the territory of Thailand does not automatically confer citizenship. A person born of a father or mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom.

A person born within the Thai Kingdom except a person of alien parents if, at the time of birth, the father was not married to the mother, unless the mother was given leniency for temporary residence or had been permitted to stay temporarily in the Thai Kingdom, unless she had entered the Kingdom without permission.

BY DESCENT: Child born in wedlock, either of whose parents is a citizen of Thailand, regardless of the child's country of birth. Child born out of wedlock, whose mother is a citizen of Thailand and whose father is unknown or stateless, regardless of the child's country of birth.

BY NATURALIZATION: Before being able to apply for Thai citizenship, the person must have the following qualifications: Have displayed good behavior. Have a regular occupation. Have a domicile in the Thai Kingdom for a consecutive period of not less than five years. Have knowledge of Thai language.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exceptions:

Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (20). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain.

A Thai woman who marries a foreign national and acquires her husband's citizenship has technically lost her Thai citizenship. Should the marriage end in death or divorce, the Thai national woman could regain her Thai citizenship. This is an unofficial dual citizenship designed to protect female Thai nationals.

LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP:

VOLUNTARY: Voluntary renunciation of citizenship is permitted by Thai law. Contact the Embassy for details and proper paperwork. If a person of Thai nationality who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of their father desires to retain the other nationality, they must renounce Thai nationality within one year after attaining the age of twenty years.

INVOLUNTARY: The following are grounds for involuntary loss of Thai citizenship: Person voluntarily acquires foreign citizenship. When there exist circumstances suitable for maintaining the security or interests of the State, the government is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who had acquired Thai nationality through naturalization.

Edited April 25, 2018 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

14 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Most of the incorrect info comes from people reading outdated info. The nationality act has been amended several times.

If the version I have posted is out of date, I'd happily stand corrected on sight of the later amendments.

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

If the version I have posted is out of date, I'd happily stand corrected on sight of the later amendments.

Try this one that was last amended in 2012,  Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965) with amendments until B.E. 2555 (2012) - English translation

[KhaoYai]

27 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Try this one that was last amended in 2012,  Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965) with amendments until B.E. 2555 (2012) - English translation

Thank you for that.  It does seem that there have been changes in relation to a Thai woman who obtains the citizenship of her husband's country but the position of a child born to a foreign father remains the same (see items 14 and 21)

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Thank you for that.  It does seem that there have been changes in relation to a Thai woman who obtains the citizenship of her husband's country but the position of a child born to a foreign father remains the same (see items 14 and 21)

It does not state it is mandatory to choose. I think what you quoted before was taken out of context.

Quote

Section 14.18 A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of his father or mother according to law on nationality of his father or mother, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

Section 21 as amended is meant for stateless people that can get a pink ID card. It is certainly not enforced.

[JimmyJ]

On 1/26/2018 at 10:41 PM, sawadee1947 said:

depends where you live. There are crowded "cheap" areas and those with a higher standard of living. Those areas are not polluted and not crowded! (as San Kamphaeng e.g)

" Those areas are not polluted..."

 

I assume you refer to seeing black exhaust from buses, trucks, etc., which perhaps are not as prevalent in some neighborhoods.

 

But the PM 2.5 pollution is unfortunately in dangerous levels in Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Pai, etc. - I think all northern areas and certainly Chiang Mai per air pollution sites.

Edited April 26, 2018 by JimmyJ