7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Doesn't change the fact that HD are moving the production of at least 37k bikes a year offshore due to tariff increases imposed by Trump on the EU.

 

You really believe that decisions on that level are made overnight.

 

HD sales in the US have been declining for years, while in Europe they are slowly increasing for years already, so you can be sure that they were playing with the EU plant already before Trump even was president.

3 hours ago, pegman said:

YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

 

 

Try again. It was last year and here is why according to their CEO:

 

"Harley-Davidson Inc.’s chief executive officer said he decided to build a plant in Thailand when it was clear the U.S. would abandon the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the free-trade agreement President Donald Trump withdrew from last year."

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-24/trump-s-tpp-pullout-may-have-cost-missouri-its-harley-factory

 

 

To be fair, Clinton was opposed to it also.

50 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

You really believe that decisions on that level are made overnight.

 

HD sales in the US have been declining for years, while in Europe they are slowly increasing for years already, so you can be sure that they were playing with the EU plant already before Trump even was president.

Such decisions would be modelled prior to finalising. I'll go with the public statement by the CEO.

To be fair, the whole system is messed up on so many levels, it is hard to know where to start. Books could be written about this. Allow me this weak analysis.

 

Trump was elected partly because he is pro-religious (even though his morals are anything but) and because he does not seem to filter his thoughts, which are outrageous (which might appeal to people looking for change).  He speaks like a normal person, almost like a friend. Maybe he could be.Trump is in fact a pathological liar and an egomaniac. Egomaniacs are charming, but they have no heart. Separating kids from parents anyone? You are fired! There are many examples. The trade war is a way for the Republicans to find a common enemy, to get votes, where in fact the enemy is largely within. Even though Sanders was the smartest, the most honest and the best guy in the room, he was too smart and sounded like the other crooks as he spoke in a refined manner. So, he must be a crook. Have you checked the evidence against Trump lately? Website after website, talk show after talk show, people  are proving without a shadow of a doubt that he lies. But, then so did Bill Clinton.

 

So, why won't people change their mind with regards to personal decisions like choosing a party or believing in a god or the overwelming evidence against Trump? It is called perseverance bias. If one states to the world that the world is so, that he is for this or that, declaring the opposite would be seen as a weakness and affect one's credibility, in the eyes of many. That would not be a problem if one would be strong, but the cost will be high. Why do you think rumours are so powerful? It does not take much to bring someone down and many tend to believe this. Why would we be asking any advice if one has demonstrated to be wrong once? Compare to others who never state much or dodge the issue, one who is shown to change one's mind is downgraded and will be dealt that way. Every single belief that does not quite fit the group's belief will be questioned. They will start to question his or her\ ability to make decisions. It becomes an ad hominem attack on one's identity, one's ability to think (one's whole belief system). How many people on any forum admit they are wrong? Ever? Yet, we all know that only idiots never change their mind. We all know that to be true too. It is a catch-22, in other words. It is all ego based and if people do not reassess their biases and change them from time to time, there is going to be a lot of people hurt at the end, including them. Climate change anyone?

 

Humans need to evolve, choose leaders who are not egomaniacs! Bernie Sanders was the best candidate, bar none. How can anyone choose a person like Trump over a university professor who had a consistent and proven record? Trump's record? Only idiots never change their mind.

 

Trump has a great vision, esp. re. immigration. He'll prove all the naysayers wrong.

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

You should get your facts right, it is at least 5 years ago that Harley decided to build a factory in Thailand. Every biker in Thailand knew 5 years ago that HD was going to build a factory in Thailand for the smaller models. You think they all grabbed that out of the air?

it was only in 2017 that things materialized, but the decision was a public secret for 5 years.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harley-davidson-steel-tariffs/

 

Did Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand Due to New Steel Tariffs?

 

 

Nonsense. Snopes is about steel tariffs and my reference was to TPP. If Trump had signed onto the TPP Harley would not have built a plant in ASEAN. You don't believe their own CEO?

2 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Trump has a great vision, esp. re. immigration. He'll prove all the naysayers wrong.

Is there a pompom emoji? Because it would look great accompanying your cheerleading.

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

To be fair, Clinton was opposed to it also.

She lies as much as her old man. When she was Sec. State she said it was the gold standard of trade deals. About the only politician I have less use for than Trump.

3 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I agree. It is staggering.

 

However don't underestimate the power of relentless propaganda (and I mean truly unrelenting) from Fox "News" and other similar media outlets and the fact that people use social media with all its unfiltered content so much these days.

 

History teaches us so many lessons. Look at how demagogues in the past have been successful in creating and maintaining large followings amongst the population. It is almost always by vastly exaggerating external and internal threats, demonising opponents and often by nurturing these threats through antagonism.

 

It is possible the U.S. has to get in a terrible mess before it gets rid of Trump. That is another lesson from history that demagogues when they finally go leave the country in an awful state.

All very true. I for one am suffering Trump fatigue.

 

Whilst having coffee and munching away on cereal this morning, I was catching up on Thai Visa News and youtube news etc and I suddenly realized that I am completely frakking sick of seeing/hearing about Trump, tweeting about utter crap (Red Hen restaurants for example) when he is POTUS. If you let him he will drive you utterly insane as he has clearly done with his base. I am stepping back from all things Trump, say for a week and see if the mental fog that has descended upon me clears. He is toxic and I will never understand how any literate person can follow him. I am going to try and ignore him now until Mueller deals his death blow. The sword of Damocles hangs high over Trumps head, may the great Architect of the Universe let it drop. Ciao for now.

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

Doesn't change the fact that HD are moving the production of at least 37k bikes a year offshore due to tariff increases imposed by Trump on the EU.

 

There are a hundreds of thousands of US jobs at risk due to increased tariffs by Trump. On the up side a UK company is to invest US5 billion to recommission a steel plant in the US, how many new jobs created - minimal.

G.W. Bush did this in 2002. There were many more jobs lost than gained. In 2003 he flip flopped and removed the tariffs. I say  the draft dodger folds by mid-September.

3 minutes ago, pegman said:

G.W. Bush did this in 2002. There were many more jobs lost than gained. In 2003 he flip flopped and removed the tariffs. I say  the draft dodger folds by mid-September. 

Thank you for pointing out that both presidents in question dodged the draft.  Maybe there is a correlation between that and tariff games. 

 

 

8 hours ago, pegman said:

Nonsense. Snopes is about steel tariffs and my reference was to TPP. If Trump had signed onto the TPP Harley would not have built a plant in ASEAN. You don't believe their own CEO?

I couldn't care less what you're on about, FACT is that you claimed HD made the decision because of Trump, while in FACT that decision for the Thailand plant already was know by every biker in Thailand long before Trump even became president.

Have y'all seen the version of the trump hotels website? You won't believe it!

http://www.trumphotels.org

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Winning!

 

U.S. cruises toward record-breaking debt on Trump's watch

 

Quote

The nation’s fiscal outlook looks ever bleaker, thanks in part to deficit spending during President Donald Trump’s first term, Congress’ nonpartisan budget scorekeeper projected Tuesday. 

Within 16 years, the federal deficit is expected to be the largest in history, outpacing even the fiscal shortfalls that followed World War II, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates.

 

7 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

I couldn't care less what you're on about, FACT is that you claimed HD made the decision because of Trump, while in FACT that decision for the Thailand plant already was know by every biker in Thailand long before Trump even became president.

That may very well be true but the decision on the viability of a Thai plant hinged on whether the USA signed onto TPP. It was TRUMP and no one else who decided not to. You seem to be too thick to understand that TPP was under negotiation for many years before Trump thus HD waiting for a conclusion to decide to build or not. If Trump had signed onto TPP then NO HD plant in Rayong. Prime example of stereotypes. This is on Trump. The other thing is had Trump signed onto TPP and the plant not been built the high Thai tariffs would still apply as it was not a party to the trade agreement. HD American bikes would be cheaper in the ASEAN/TPP countries like Vietnam.

I may hate what Trump is doing but by not signing onto TPP and the effect of having the Rayong plant built could help me personally. The road bike I've been planning to buy in the next year or so may just be a Harley now. If the tariffs had remained no way I would pay that much.

3 hours ago, Silurian said:

Winning!

 

U.S. cruises toward record-breaking debt on Trump's watch

 

 

Trump would respond to this by saying "Don't worry folks, believe me I know bankruptcy better than anyone".

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Have y'all seen the version of the trump hotels website? You won't believe it!

http://www.trumphotels.org

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Genius !!!

 

That is why your marketing people should secure ALL variants of your brand name when looking at websites.

 

I hope it stays up but I get a feeling it will be taken down soon.

This is why there is absolutely no reason to ever listen to the Reality TV Con Artist...

 

Donald Trump made 103 false claims last week, shattering his dishonesty record

 

Quote

Trump made an astonishing 103 false claims over those seven days, an average of 15 per day. That shatters his one-week record of 60, which he had set in early March.

 

You just can't trust anything that comes out of his mouth hole.

 

10 minutes ago, Silurian said:

This is why there is absolutely no reason to ever listen to the Reality TV Con Artist...

 

Donald Trump made 103 false claims last week, shattering his dishonesty record

 

 

You just can't trust anything that comes out of his mouth hole.

 

Absolutely. He's not a serious person. But tragically he has wicked serious POWER.

 

 

Again...Winning!

 

Trump And The Credit-Card Republicans Drive Us Deeper In The Hole

 

Quote

A New Analysis Shows Their Tax Cuts Could Add Another $4 Trillion to Our National Debt

 

Not American your vote No good! 

Winning so much that it hurts!

 

Largest US nail manufacturer 'on the brink of extinction' because of the steel tariffs

 

Quote

The Mid-Continent Nail plant in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, laid off 60 of its 500 workers last week because of increased steel costs. The company blames the 25% tariff on imported steel. Orders for nails plunged 50% after the company raised its prices to deal with higher steel costs.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Silurian said:

Winning so much that it hurts!

 

Largest US nail manufacturer 'on the brink of extinction' because of the steel tariffs

The Mid-Continent Nail plant in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, laid off 60 of its 500 workers last week because of increased steel costs. The company blames the 25% tariff on imported steel. Orders for nails plunged 50% after the company raised its prices to deal with higher steel costs.

 

 

Can they put the last nail in Trump's coffin ?

One more promise Trump made to himself, delivered; 

" Since Donald Trump declared his candidacy for president in late 2015, at least $16.1 million has poured into Trump Organization-managed and branded hotels, golf courses and restaurants from his campaign, Republican organizations, and government agencies. Trump appears to be commandeering federal resources in order to maximize revenues at Trump properties, and he does this by visiting properties close to the White House,” 

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/06/staggering-16-1-million-political-taxpayer-spending-trump-properties/

Excerpt:

 

Quote

"Tariffs are nothing more than a tax on consumers. President Trump's steel and aluminum tariffs will add up to $600 to the cost of a new car - and could force thousands to lose their jobs in the beer business."

 

He goes on to say that the cost of beer will go higher too (and, of course, these are just a few examples of what will happen.

 

So, Trump/the GOP lowers tax for the multinationals --they did not pay-- to force them to come home (to pay employees shitty money since it can be done for next to nothing in China) because we have an unemployment rate problem even though we have a 5% unemployment rate (which all economists see as the best one can have) and now he increases taxes on average folks. AND, some people need 2 jobs to make ends meet. Inflation will eat away at all of those salary increases too. People will have to lower their spending. Recession is coming. Right on time: 1989 (Black Monday/S&L crisis (1)) > 1997 (Dot Com) > 2008 > 2018.  It is worth noting that the problems that banks and insurance companies 

 

I have written on persistence bias before. I don't think that one more piece of evidence is going to put a dent on their belief system, but when you persevere in defending an egomaniac, illiterate, twice-bankrupt person who got 1 million dollars in his 20's, ...

 

Btw, I do not support the Democrats either. Both parties are corrupt and have been corrupt by big multinationals, the military complex, arm lobby, protestant religious fanatics, and the elite for a long time under all administrations. They try hard to make it look like your vote matters, but it doesn't. 

 

 

Quote

 

(1) The savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s (commonly dubbed the S&L crisis) was the failure of 1,043 out of the 3,234 savings and loan associations in the United States from 1986 to 1995: the Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corporation (FSLIC) closed or otherwise resolved 296 institutions from 1986 to 1989 and the Resolution Trust Corporation (RTC) closed or otherwise resolved 747 institutions from 1989 to 1995.^[1]

 

In 1979, the Federal Reserve System of the United States raised the discount rate that it charged its member banks from 9.5% to 12% in an effort to reduce inflation. The building or savings and loans associations (S&Ls) had issued long-term loans at fixed interest rates that were lower than the interest rate at which they could borrow. 

 

 

DEJA VOUS all over again. I see a pattern. Do you?

One for Trump and Trump supporters. This is how a man speaks, how an adult speaks, how a patriot speaks.

 

 

And this is the anithisis of that.

 

 

On 6/26/2018 at 12:01 PM, MrPatrickThai said:

Trump has a great vision, esp. re. immigration. He'll prove all the naysayers wrong.

Penetrating analysis, as always.

On 6/26/2018 at 1:01 AM, MrPatrickThai said:

Trump has a great vision, esp. re. immigration. He'll prove all the naysayers wrong.

Many thought Hitler had a great vision, esp. re. Jews.  Despots need scapegoats.

10 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

One for Trump and Trump supporters. This is how a man speaks, how an adult speaks, how a patriot speaks.

 

 

And this is the anithisis of that.

 

 

I am sure the CIA, the FBI, the military, and Hollywood have a lot of patriots, but maybe their patriotism tends sometimes to trump the truth, if it matters at all.

 

 

It took 10 years for Oliver Stone to tell the truth. Why? How many truths are not told? And, no, RT did not brainwash all of those Americans who are interviewed in this piece. If you believe, you are an idiot. Alumni learn to get to the truth by listening to all sources and then making decisions. based on logic and coherence of the evidence presented. Those who ignore inconvenient sources and perhaps inconvenient truths are likely going to be manipulated or lied to. 

 

However, today, it seems everyone say they know the truth. Everyone is a genius. Oh! But you are just joking! They should listen and read more than they should speak and write. I did. That is what intelligent people and alumni do.

 

Trump like all egomaniacs speaks a lot and says a lot of outrageous things to get attention. Well, okay, he tweets a lot. He is a businessman who got a 1 million dollar loan from his dad in his 20's and has been tested as having Grade 4 literacy abilities. He lies constantly. He sleeps with hookers while being married and he goes to church. He and his fans feel it is okay to do what they did to innocent children while they go to church every Sunday. How much evidence does one need to connect the dots? Cognitive dissonance and perseverance bias at its best. Should we trust all of what Trump and some of his supporters (those who have a vested interest in getting more) say?

 

Should we trust Hollywood, the military, and the CIA? Should we trust their truths? Should we trust Trump's truths? Should we trust your truths? 

An interesting article in Slate taking a closer look at the pools. When voters are asked if they plan to vote Republican or Democrat in Congressional races, the margin is in the single digits.But when asked if they want a Congress that  generally cooperates with Trump or defies Trump. the numbers in favor of defiance ballon. The following is just one example from the article:

 

"On the poll’s congressional ballot question—“Which party’s candidate are you more likely to vote for in your congressional district?”—the GOP trails by just six points, 45 percent to 39 percent. But when the question is framed around Trump—“Do you want to elect a Congress that mostly cooperates with President Trump, or one that mostly stands up to President Trump?”—the gap more than triples. Fifty-five percent of voters choose a Congress that stands up to Trump. "

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/polls-show-donald-trump-is-an-albatross-on-his-party-heading-into-november.html