Help ! Advice needed following recent unexpected problem at Don Muang Immigration

[Tony125]

6 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Funds must be seasoned in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the first extension application.

 

 

Please explain how an agent can obtain, or an Immigration office can issue an extension within a couple of days, without underhand payments (corruption) or adhering to the orders they themselves stipulate.

He doesn't need to show 800,000 baht in a Thai bank if he uses the proof of income route by getting a letter from the embassy declaring monthly income of at least 65,000 baht  or a combo of monthly income and money in bank for a total of 800, 000 baht a year.

[Max66]

Use an agent. Things go alot smoother.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

5 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

The rules are the same, you just pay to have them ignored.

Not only are you condoning corruption, your actively encouraging it.

 

For someone who was overjoyed at getting the Thai price for admission to Pattaya's floating Market

Your principles appear to diminish when it suits your needs.

And you are who exactly, to get on your moral high horse and preach in this country to which you hold no allegiance?

Edited February 7, 2018 by PerkinsCuthbert

[geisha]

So does that mean that 180 days a calendar year using  tourist visas and extensions is  allowed, is it legal ? 

There is no visa that caters to people  over 50/60, who own condos here, and who spend only 3/5 months during the European winter . Nearly all my neighbours here in Jomtien fall into this category. 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, geisha said:

So does that mean that 180 days a calendar year using  tourist visas and extensions is  allowed, is it legal ? 

There is no law, regulation, order or rule that limits their total stay to 180 days.

[Mansell]

Why wouldn't you get the retirement visa in England? Seems like a no brainer to me, unless it is difficult there. Then while you are here you can make trips to Vietnam or wherever without a re-entry permit. And if you make a trip right before that visa expires you would get another year for making more trips. 

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, capo 5 said:

No it's not he has never from his post used another tourist visa to extend his stay he has only used visa exempts.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Quote

I have done this by purchasing a 60 day Single Entry Tourist Visa , extending it by 30 days at Immigration ,

I think you owe Suradit69 an apology.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

Why would your friend pay 40,000 baht for a service that's widely available for 15,000?

Because he's an 'Ass', a real life Mr Bean, with 'Sucker' stamped on his forehead.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

And you are who exactly, to get on your moral high horse and preach in this country to which you hold no allegiance?

Someone with morals and principals who doesn't condone or encourage corruption.

[Tanoshi]

43 minutes ago, Mansell said:

Why wouldn't you get the retirement visa in England? Seems like a no brainer to me, unless it is difficult there. Then while you are here you can make trips to Vietnam or wherever without a re-entry permit. And if you make a trip right before that visa expires you would get another year for making more trips. 

Actually it's a no brainer that Thai Embassies/Consulates don't offer Retirement Visa because they don't exist.

 

Between the ages of 50 -65 apart from the Thai Elite, only the Non Imm O-A Visa is available to those who want to stay for long periods.

I believe it is to this Visa that you refer to as a Retirement Visa.

[Ditto]

9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

And you paid an exorbitant fee for something you could have done the legal route for only 3,900 baht.

I paid 3800bht exactly. Which was to the immigration officer.1900 for the conversion of TV to non o and 1900 for the extension didn't bother with reentry permit All above board many people I know got 15months on the first extension. So please get your facts straight.

[capo 5]

Tanoshi he applied for the a 30 day extension on his first and only tourist visa if you read what was written i was talking about what he could do in the future so no i don't owe anyboby an appology.zzzzz

Sent from my SM-J700F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Ditto said:

I paid 3800bht exactly. Which was to the immigration officer.1900 for the conversion of TV to non o and 1900 for the extension didn't bother with reentry permit All above board many people I know got 15months on the first extension. So please get your facts straight.

You want me to believe you walked into an IO with a TV, paid 3,800 baht and walked out with an extension based on retirement on the same day without paying an agent   

 

The fee for a Non Imm O is 2,000 baht, not 1,900.

The procedure, fees and required forms for converting a TV or Visa exempt are here;

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_76

[volsfan]

If you do decide to go the extension at Jomtein route, make sure you have completed the house registration process first. Otherwise they will shake you down for a fine about that. 

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, rosst said:

This gentleman's issue is precisely why I have chosen the Philippines, I still have a residence here and come for a couple of months each year but the attitude of the immigration staff in the Philippines is exactly the opposite of the Thai. 

I really feel sorry for him as he is the tourist they say they want and then treat them like shit. 

They treated him that way, because he comes every year, and stays awhile.  He might put down roots, and who knows what THAT could lead to!! 

 

But if he goes through "immigration" for an extension-of-stay, then those concerns vanish - because they know their buddies probably got their cut.

Edited February 7, 2018 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, geisha said:

So does that mean that 180 days a calendar year using  tourist visas and extensions is  allowed, is it legal ? 

There is no visa that caters to people  over 50/60, who own condos here, and who spend only 3/5 months during the European winter . Nearly all my neighbours here in Jomtien fall into this category. 

While there is No Legal Limit to the use of repeated Tourist Visas, IOs have wider discretion with visa-exempt entries.  They are supposed to only stop those doing repeated in/outs (per ministerial order), but in this case, they seem to be using it for other purposes.  

 

There is no "180 day rule" (for Visa-Exempts or Tourist-Visa entries) - and the OP had not even crossed this made-up barrier.  Now, it seems, they are trying to count "180 days since whenever we say" as "not permitted to enter."   Note that those using Tourist Visas have reported the same lie being told.

 

Immigration don't really care what you do - criminal or an honest person, rich or not - your treatment is based on if your type of stay falls into a category associated with brown envelopes.  Agents charge around 10x the cost of an extension, and some of that money goes into those envelopes - which is why the application-rules are often skipped for agent-processed applications.  A good percentage of all on "extensions of stay" use agents, so these result in no problems in the Airport.  To do so would step on the toes of the higher-up beneficiaries of agent-money, which I suspect goes up the chain in "pyramid-scheme" fashion, or it would have been "busted" by now.

 

For those who do not really need (the OP), or cannot get an "extension of stay" corruption-free, there is a solution:  Since only airport-immigration and the Poipet/Aranya crossing are infected with IOs doing this, simply enter by any a land border-crossing which follows the laws/rules as written - basically, any land-border except Poipet, provided you have 20K Baht worth of cash to show.  At these lawful checkpoints, one may enter by land 2x per calendar year visa-exempt, or as many times as desired with a Tourist Visa.

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

The procedure, fees and required forms for converting a TV or Visa exempt are here;

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_76

Wrong link. This is the correct one. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

None of the reasons for the visa applications are correct on this page. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/change_visa

They are correct in Thai but not in English. 

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Wrong link. This is the correct one. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

None of the reasons for the visa applications are correct on this page. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/change_visa

They are correct in Thai but not in English. 

Apologises, yes https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80 

For retirement purposes.

[scubascuba3]

I'm a 62 year old British man owning a condo in Pattaya . For several years I have travelled to Thailand early/mid November returning to UK mid /late March . I have done this by purchasing a 60 day Single Entry Tourist Visa , extending it by 30 days at Immigration , and then either doing a land border  visa run for a further 30 days followed by a 30 day extension or travelling to another country & returning to get 30 days plus the extension . This has worked perfectly , not one comment or question ever from an Immigration Officer . Most years I have been in Thailand for around 130 days  although it was 170 days in 2017 as I came additionally in June for a one month visit.
But this year I encountered big problems at Don Muang . My first 90 days was up so I went to Penang for a few days flying back this week to Don Muang . The Immigration Supervisor and her boss told me I was living in Thailand and abusing the law by inappropriately using TV's and  border trips.  The supervisor printed out my visa and entry history and they calculated that since Nov 2016  I had been in Thailand for 264 days which exceeded the 180 day rule .  I stated that this was obviously covering a period of more than one  calendar year and that I had never exceeded 180 days in a calender year .   I live in UK for the greater part of the year.
I showed a flight ticket out within the 30 day period too as  I am due to a fly to Vietnam on 6 March returning on March 13 before then returning to UK on April 3. I had plenty of funds on me but they didnt ask about that. I was then told they would refuse me entry as they believed I was living in Thailand which I contested.  I remained calm and polite but they seemed to really have it in for me and I couldnt understand why as I'd never overstayed or done anything wrong here . I said that I was doing the same as for the previous six years and that numerous Immigration Officers had not queried this during that time .
I was abruptly told that I was not stupid and I should know the law and regulations before coming here and I was also told I should not be using TV's as I stay in a condo which I own . 
The ordeal went on for well over an hour and it wasnt pleasant  . They asked to see my April 3 flight ticket to UK and then , after much deliberation , let me in . I seem to have a normal 30 day entry stamp .
I really hadnt been expecting this and am still feeling shocked at the experience .
I'm also thinking what to do in future . Next winter I will return with a Single Entry Tourist Visa and use a professional agent here  to get a Retirement Visa . This seems the best course of action . BUT I'm worried about how I can stay this year here until April 3 . If I travel to Vietnam as planned returning 13 March I worry I could have the same experience at Don Muang or even be refused entry completely . I need advice please from those with expertise who post here  .
Should I go ahead with the Vietnam trip , or should I  abandon that plan and  apply for a 30 extension at Immigration instead  ( would it be granted ? ) , or go on a land border visa run , or to a visa trip to Laos for a new tourist visa ??  I suppose I could return to UK when my current 30 days expjres but I dont want to have to do that .
I would really appreciate any advice or thoughts please .
Apologies for this posting being a bit lengthy but I felt the detail was necessary .
Paul
 

Op, let us know how you get on over the year ahead, rarely do we hear updates

[NorthernRyland]

This is the 2nd time I've heard of this "180 day rule". Where is this coming from and how official is it? I feel like this is something that happens when flying in to Don Muang but others have stated there is no such rule not the books. If you've been in the country on TV's longer than 180 days is it no longer safe to fly into the country anymore?

[pks555]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

On 7/2/2018 at 1:15 AM, pks555 said:

I'm a 62 year old British man owning a condo in Pattaya . For several years I have travelled to Thailand early/mid November returning to UK mid /late March . I have done this by purchasing a 60 day Single Entry Tourist Visa , extending it by 30 days at Immigration , and then either doing a land border  visa run for a further 30 days followed by a 30 day extension or travelling to another country & returning to get 30 days plus the extension . This has worked perfectly , not one comment or question ever from an Immigration Officer . Most years I have been in Thailand for around 130 days  although it was 170 days in 2017 as I came additionally in June for a one month visit.
But this year I encountered big problems at Don Muang . My first 90 days was up so I went to Penang for a few days flying back this week to Don Muang . The Immigration Supervisor and her boss told me I was living in Thailand and abusing the law by inappropriately using TV's and  border trips.  The supervisor printed out my visa and entry history and they calculated that since Nov 2016  I had been in Thailand for 264 days which exceeded the 180 day rule .  I stated that this was obviously covering a period of more than one  calendar year and that I had never exceeded 180 days in a calender year .   I live in UK for the greater part of the year.
I showed a flight ticket out within the 30 day period too as  I am due to a fly to Vietnam on 6 March returning on March 13 before then returning to UK on April 3. I had plenty of funds on me but they didnt ask about that. I was then told they would refuse me entry as they believed I was living in Thailand which I contested.  I remained calm and polite but they seemed to really have it in for me and I couldnt understand why as I'd never overstayed or done anything wrong here . I said that I was doing the same as for the previous six years and that numerous Immigration Officers had not queried this during that time .
I was abruptly told that I was not stupid and I should know the law and regulations before coming here and I was also told I should not be using TV's as I stay in a condo which I own . 
The ordeal went on for well over an hour and it wasnt pleasant  . They asked to see my April 3 flight ticket to UK and then , after much deliberation , let me in . I seem to have a normal 30 day entry stamp .
I really hadnt been expecting this and am still feeling shocked at the experience .
I'm also thinking what to do in future . Next winter I will return with a Single Entry Tourist Visa and use a professional agent here  to get a Retirement Visa . This seems the best course of action . BUT I'm worried about how I can stay this year here until April 3 . If I travel to Vietnam as planned returning 13 March I worry I could have the same experience at Don Muang or even be refused entry completely . I need advice please from those with expertise who post here  .
Should I go ahead with the Vietnam trip , or should I  abandon that plan and  apply for a 30 extension at Immigration instead  ( would it be granted ? ) , or go on a land border visa run , or to a visa trip to Laos for a new tourist visa ??  I suppose I could return to UK when my current 30 days expjres but I dont want to have to do that .
I would really appreciate any advice or thoughts please .
Apologies for this posting being a bit lengthy but I felt the detail was necessary .
Paul
 

Op, let us know how you get on over the year ahead, rarely do we hear updates

Yes , I will . I read ThaiVisa every day and learn a lot from others , so I'm glad to share my experience if it helps other people . 

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, genericptr said:

This is the 2nd time I've heard of this "180 day rule". Where is this coming from and how official is it? I feel like this is something that happens when flying in to Don Muang but others have stated there is no such rule not the books. If you've been in the country on TV's longer than 180 days is it no longer safe to fly into the country anymore?

Just a threat more than anything else since their is nothing official to support it. They could not deny entry for it.

As long as you have the equivalent of 20k  baht in cash to show and proof you do not need to work here they could not deny entry.

[JackThompson]

30 minutes ago, genericptr said:

This is the 2nd time I've heard of this "180 day rule". Where is this coming from and how official is it?

It is 100% a lie.  Sometimes, they make up a "90-day" rule, instead.  See this thread from June 2017:

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/988184-immigration-questioned-me-computer-show-up/

On 6/17/2017 at 2:08 AM, 2road said:

hi

in 2016 i spent 11 months in thailand. i stayed legally with a tourist visa that I was renewing every 3 months at different embassies in Lao. in Nov 2016 i left Th for Vietnam

After working in Vietnam for 7 months I flew back to TH today and as the immigration officer was turning the pages of my passport back and forth for 5min then said: "computer show up".

Another officer with better english showed up and asked to follow her then said: 
"no work in your country?" "how long you stay"
"why in TH so long? u can only stay 90 days in a year".

It is clear they have a "policy" of blatantly lying to people at some checkpoints (airports plus the Poipet/Aranya land-border, except maybe Chang Mai airport). 

[roobaa01]

go to joimtien immi to the desk where the immi officer is handling the conversion from visa to extension of stay based on retirement 12 months. the officer will point out an agent to u who will charge about 20 k thb. however success will be guaranteed.

 

good luck

 

wbr

roobaa01

[NorthernRyland]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It is clear they have a "policy" of blatantly lying to people at some checkpoints (airports plus the Poipet/Aranya land-border, except maybe Chang Mai airport). 

Then what should we do about this then? Are we supposed to demand they follow their own rules and prove they exist or just leave the country and re-enter another port to avoid those particular individuals? 

[poohy]

the gentleman lives  in Pattaya!

 

So sir

why not simply arrange a retirement via extension through an agent problem solved.

 

It would be done and dusted today.

 

I don't even live in Pattaya but know a good one If you need anymore info  Pm  

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, genericptr said:

This is the 2nd time I've heard of this "180 day rule". Where is this coming from and how official is it? I feel like this is something that happens when flying in to Don Muang but others have stated there is no such rule not the books. If you've been in the country on TV's longer than 180 days is it no longer safe to fly into the country anymore?

There is no official rule restricting your stay to 180 days in a year.

 

I have the impression that immigration's system tells the official how long you have been in Thailand on tourist entries over some ill defined period. Although there is no official rule, I think some (at least) officials have received instructions to give those spending over half their time in Thailand on tourist entries  increased scrutiny to ensure they are legitimate tourists. Guesswork, and could be wrong.

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I have the impression that immigration's system tells the official how long you have been in Thailand on tourist entries over some ill defined period. Although there is no official rule, I think some (at least) officials have received instructions to give those spending over half their time in Thailand on tourist entries  increased scrutiny to ensure they are legitimate tourists. Guesswork, and could be wrong.

I've heard the term '180 days' mentioned by IO personnel both at airports and Immigration offices.

My IO restrict 2 x 30 day extensions to TV's in a year.

They state that over 6 months you are residing in Thailand and not a Tourist by definition.

 

No official rule, but I believe someone, somewhere has told IO's to use their discretion relating to staying for long periods on Visa exempts, TV's and extensions to those entries. They appear to be playing in a grey area where they don't want to restrict genuine tourists by making any rules, but at the same time want to encourage the correct Visa for the purpose and duration of stay.

[lkv]

34 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I have the impression that immigration's system tells the official how long you have been in Thailand on tourist entries over some ill defined period. Although there is no official rule, I think some (at least) officials have received instructions to give those spending over half their time in Thailand on tourist entries  increased scrutiny to ensure they are legitimate tourists. Guesswork, and could be wrong.

 

It's based more on visual inspection of the passport and of the person in front of them I think. I don't believe the system has any 180 day alert. Unless they did not tell me and just stamped me in, I am way past that number last year.

 

It is a new passport though (Dec 17).

 

Also had a very recent entry in DMK, but on a reentry permit of a visa issued back home (first visa in the new passport)

 

Don't know if all of the above matter, they might.

Edited February 8, 2018 by lkv

[NorthernRyland]

8 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I've heard the term '180 days' mentioned by IO personnel both at airports and Immigration offices.

My IO restrict 2 x 30 day extensions to TV's in a year.

They state that over 6 months you are residing in Thailand and not a Tourist by definition.

Who is "your IO"? I suspect you're right about this and honestly at the end of the day it doesn't matter what the law is in Thailand, just how it's  applied. The IO at Mae Sai gave me bad information also about border crossings but as far as I'm concerned his personal interpretation is the law because it's him I'm answering to at the border not the central government.