Having confidence in a developer

[Expat2be]

I found a property that meets all my expectations, the developer has 7 other developments completed and operating well.  This of course does not tell me if there are others that have not been successful. A very reputable Realtor has assured me he only showed me project he had confedice in being completed and would be maintained.   I have put a deposit but have 30 days to do more research.  I would rather lose a despot now than much more later.   We hear so much about developments failing but clearly there are many that go well.   Looking for any tips on ways I can be confident I have choosen the right condo development.

[simoh1490]

Perhaps your accidental use of the word "despot" was a Freudian slip, in which case I agree!

 

You should put zero faith in a realtor under any circumstances, regardless of what he says, he is not regulated and there is no oversight.  He will almost certainly be in the payment chain somewhere so you MUST do your own due diligence and remain totally independent of him - in case my message isn't clear, your realtor is not to be trusted.

 

Can you trust the developer you ask. If your developer is willing to use the escrow system whereby your funds are held independently until the contract is completed, you stand a reasonable chance. If he will not, I would not trust him and I definitely wouldn't trust the build quality unless I was on site every day watching what was done and how.

[scubascuba3]

You could name the developer and get opinions. I wouldn't worry too much about Lumpini for example

 

 

[cornishcarlos]

We bought a Lumpini condo in BKK. Very happy with 90%...

Our tenant wants to buy it, after renting for just 1 month !!

I think Lumpini have a good rep :)

 

[smutcakes]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Perhaps your accidental use of the word "despot" was a Freudian slip, in which case I agree!

 

You should put zero faith in a realtor under any circumstances, regardless of what he says, he is not regulated and there is no oversight.  He will almost certainly be in the payment chain somewhere so you MUST do your own due diligence and remain totally independent of him - in case my message isn't clear, your realtor is not to be trusted.

 

Can you trust the developer you ask. If your developer is willing to use the escrow system whereby your funds are held independently until the contract is completed, you stand a reasonable chance. If he will not, I would not trust him and I definitely wouldn't trust the build quality unless I was on site every day watching what was done and how.

Which developers in Thailand use Escrow? I don't even believe Escrow is used in any circumstances in Thailand. If you hold out for an escrow you are never going to buy anything regardless of how reputabale or not the developer is.

 

There are many trust worthy estate agents out there. Would i trust Somchai, the one man band, probably not. But the large International companies i would generally trust the same as you would in any country, alongside your own research. Your comments are just have no grounding in reality of a normal person acquiring a condominium in Thailand. Who the hell could stand on site everyday watching condominium construction?

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

Which developers in Thailand use Escrow? I don't even believe Escrow is used in any circumstances in Thailand. If you hold out for an escrow you are never going to buy anything regardless of how reputabale or not the developer is.

 

There are many trust worthy estate agents out there. Would i trust Somchai, the one man band, probably not. But the large International companies i would generally trust the same as you would in any country, alongside your own research. Your comments are just have no grounding in reality of a normal person acquiring a condominium in Thailand. Who the hell could stand on site everyday watching condominium construction?

 

[smutcakes]

13 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

 

 

So you have had  a scroll through google searching for it and find something from 2011. In reality they are not used or common in Thailand, and no developer is going to allow you to use them. In fact there is no point in using one. What is the benefit of using an escrow for buying a condominium of a developer in Thailand?

[simoh1490]

9 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

So you have had  a scroll through google searching for it and find something from 2011. In reality they are not used or common in Thailand, and no developer is going to allow you to use them. In fact there is no point in using one. What is the benefit of using an escrow for buying a condominium of a developer in Thailand?

I posted the first link that I found, top of the page and didn't look further, mostly because it includes Supalai, if the concept was going strong in 2011 you can bet your booties it's even stronger today!

 

When I wrote my original post I didn't specifically have condo's in mind, I had general real estate construction in mind hence when I wrote to stand on site and watch, I was kinda thinking of houses more than anything else, obviously, that picture changes somewhat when the really big players are involved.

 

What is the benefit of using escrow you ask......simply, you don't pay a dime until the contract you envisaged is fulfilled, the way you envisaged.

 

But hey, if you want to do things differently, go for it, it's your money not mine, I'm just responding now to your challenge that the comments have no basis in reality!!!

Edited February 8, 2018 by simoh1490

[watcharacters]

 

 

A first post about such a serious question leads me to be suspicious.

 

 

 

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

I posted the first link that I found, top of the page and didn't look further, mostly because it includes Supalai, if the concept was going strong in 2011 you can bet your booties it's even stronger today!

 

When I wrote my original post I didn't specifically have condo's in mind, I had general real estate construction in mind hence when I wrote to stand on site and watch, I was kinda thinking of houses more than anything else, obviously, that picture changes somewhat when the really big players are involved.

 

What is the benefit of using escrow you ask......simply, you don't pay a dime until the contract you envisaged is fulfilled, the way you envisaged.

 

But hey, if you want to do things differently, go for it, it's your money not mine, I'm just responding now to your challenge that the comments have no basis in reality!!!

You comments have no basis in reality. Give me one example of a developer you can buy a condo off,  and keep funds in escrow until its completed and you decide whether to release or not?

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

You comments have no basis in reality. Give me one example of a developer you can buy a condo off,  and keep funds in escrow until its completed and you decide whether to release or not?

 

 

 

Are you suggesting this is a troll poster?

 

 

 

[smutcakes]

Just now, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Are you suggesting this is a troll poster?

 

 

 

No, not at all. Just a poster in this case who i think is offering unrealistic advice which is not an option in reality in Thailand.

[scubascuba3]

 
 
 
Are you suggesting this is a troll poster?
 
 
 

Are you a troll hunter? A lot about it seems, although reverse trolling is a much bigger problem

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

No, not at all. Just a poster in this case who i think is offering unrealistic advice which is not an option in reality in Thailand.

 

 

 

The OP is asking a question.  He is not offering advise.   

 

My radar is on full scope.

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

The OP is asking a question.  He is not offering avise.   

 

My radar is on full scope.

He is offering advice, he is suggesting to keep funds in escrow until the contract obligations are met, and to keep a close eye on the quality of construction on a day to day basis. (Later partially redacted due to realizing it is a condo)

 

Personally i dont think either of these are practically achievable, but i dont think it was trolling advise.

[simoh1490]

9 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

You comments have no basis in reality. Give me one example of a developer you can buy a condo off,  and keep funds in escrow until its completed and you decide whether to release or not?

Supalai, that's what the article confirms.

 

And to be clear, it's not a matter of deciding whether or not to release, it's a matter of determining if the contract has been fulfilled, that's the purpose of escrow. An escrow participant does not have the right to change their mind, only to contest whether contractual obligations have been fulfilled.

[watcharacters]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

6 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 
 
 
Are you suggesting this is a troll poster?
 
 
 

Are you a troll hunter? A lot about it seems, although reverse trolling is a much bigger problem

 

 

 

I'm thinking you could spend a few more moments of your life and provide a   clearer reply post.

 

"A lot about it seems, although reverse trolling is a much bigger problem"

 

 

I'm  not looking for misspellings or troll posts but I  nevertheless question if this poster is sincere.

 

Do you believe the  OP is sincere?

[simoh1490]

Here's a pre-2004 narrative from Siam Legal confirming even then, before a national escrow scheme had been established, that construction escrow was very common:

 

Current Application

Despite a lack of regulation in Thai law, escrows have been widely used by larger property developers, law firms and other third parties in the country for some time already. Law firms and some estate agents apply section 805 of the Civil and Commercial Code, mentioned earlier, to enable this. More established companies and firms provide their clients with an offshore escrow account in a jurisdiction which already has a recognized escrow law in place. Whatever the case may be, it is prudent for you, as a client, to know what the terms and conditions of the escrow are. Some escrow arrangements are drafted into the sale and purchase agreement itself and some more complicated arrangements will require a separate escrow agreement to outline the conditions subsequent to transfer.

https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Escrows-in-Thailand.php

 

Now, do I need to keep googling and posting this stuff or are we going to agree?

 

[watcharacters]

2 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Which developers in Thailand use Escrow? I don't even believe Escrow is used in any circumstances in Thailand. If you hold out for an escrow you are never going to buy anything regardless of how reputabale or not the developer is.

 

There are many trust worthy estate agents out there. Would i trust Somchai, the one man band, probably not. But the large International companies i would generally trust the same as you would in any country, alongside your own research. Your comments are just have no grounding in reality of a normal person acquiring a condominium in Thailand. Who the hell could stand on site everyday watching condominium construction?

 

 

 

 

Please list what  International Real estate developers in Thailand  you believe are trustworthy.

 

 

Please..

 

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

 
 
 
I'm thinking you could spend a few more moments of your life and provide a   clearer reply post.
 
"A lot about it seems, although reverse trolling is a much bigger problem"
 
 
I'm  not looking for misspellings or troll posts but I  nevertheless question if this poster is sincere.
 
Do you believe the  OP is sincere?

Yes, stop wasting your time searching for trolls constantly

[watcharacters]

14 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

He is offering advice, he is suggesting to keep funds in escrow until the contract obligations are met, and to keep a close eye on the quality of construction on a day to day basis. (Later partially redacted due to realizing it is a condo)

 

Personally i dont think either of these are practically achievable, but i dont think it was trolling advise.

 

 

 

Of course they are not  available in Thailand.       There is no escrow system in Thailand  and  while an architect should be available to  insure things are done according to plan, I could only question the efficacy of that.

[watcharacters]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

16 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 
 
 
I'm thinking you could spend a few more moments of your life and provide a   clearer reply post.
 
"A lot about it seems, although reverse trolling is a much bigger problem"
 
 
I'm  not looking for misspellings or troll posts but I  nevertheless question if this poster is sincere.
 
Do you believe the  OP is sincere?

Yes, stop wasting your time searching for trolls constantly

 

 

 

What is  your point?

 

Constantly?

 

 

Are you some kind of  wacko?

[smutcakes]

14 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Here's a pre-2004 narrative from Siam Legal confirming even then, before a national escrow scheme had been established, that construction escrow was very common:

 

Current Application

Despite a lack of regulation in Thai law, escrows have been widely used by larger property developers, law firms and other third parties in the country for some time already. Law firms and some estate agents apply section 805 of the Civil and Commercial Code, mentioned earlier, to enable this. More established companies and firms provide their clients with an offshore escrow account in a jurisdiction which already has a recognized escrow law in place. Whatever the case may be, it is prudent for you, as a client, to know what the terms and conditions of the escrow are. Some escrow arrangements are drafted into the sale and purchase agreement itself and some more complicated arrangements will require a separate escrow agreement to outline the conditions subsequent to transfer.

https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Escrows-in-Thailand.php

 

Now, do I need to keep googling and posting this stuff or are we going to agree?

 

And i am telling you in reality they are not available when trying to buy off developers. I have bought condos here, and there has never been an escrow option. Any other people who have bought from developers had luck with an escrow? A quick search of the Supalai website throws up exactly 0 hits for Escrow, indeed most articles on the availability of escrow conclude about 7 years ago.

[MaeJoMTB]

50 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

You comments have no basis in reality. Give me one example of a developer you can buy a condo off,  and keep funds in escrow until its completed and you decide whether to release or not?

Don't know about condos, but  my misses bought a house off plan.

10K down on promise to buy, another 50k over 5 months, then the rest (1.6M from bank, 200k from me) at the land office when they were ready to hand the keys over and us move in.

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Don't know about condos, but  my misses bought a house off plan.

10K down on promise to buy, another 50k over 5 months, then the rest (1.6M from bank, 200k from me) at the land office when they were ready to hand the keys over and us move in.

 

Yes that is standard for all developers to varying amounts of deposit V staged payments V Final payment on transfer. But that is not Escrow and I a presuming that is the type of setup the developer is offering the OP.

[simoh1490]

25 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Of course they are not  available in Thailand.       There is no escrow system in Thailand  and  while an architect should be available to  insure things are done according to plan, I could only question the efficacy of that.

So posts 6 & 18 are lies and Kbank doesn't really offer the service, okaydokay!

 

For everyone else: I'm cool if you don't want to believe it, up to you, as they say, if I was the OP or indeed in the market to buy, that's the route I'd certainly be going down, it may even make a difference which condo. I buy. Over and out 'cos I'm not inclined to argue this anymore.

Edited February 8, 2018 by simoh1490

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

We bought a Lumpini condo in BKK. Very happy with 90%...

Our tenant wants to buy it, after renting for just 1 month !!

I think Lumpini have a good rep :)

 

 

Here's a good point, take the trouble to talk personally to owners in the previous developments with some well chosen questions, and in my view one of the most important is the state of maintenance;

 

- I there an owners committee? Is it run according to the law? are they focused on the right things? is there planned maintenance and repair and replacement is is every maintenance activity jut knee-jerk after the event?

 

- Is there a sinking fund, is it structured to progressively built a decent size fund? Is there proof that part of every month's maintenance payment actually go into this fund and where are the funds held (bank etc.), and is there a structured process to touch the money and is it all transparent etc.

 

- Can all owners easily access the minutes of meetings etc?

 

- Are annual / extraordinary meetings well publicized in advance? are their individuals or clans who attempt to push owners to give them their proxies, etc.

 

- Are there attempts at meetings to stop people talking? 

 

- Etc...

 

I've owned a property where the above was excellent and also owned a property where the above was just a mafia gang - in this case nothing was being maintained and I sold quickly.  

 

[watcharacters]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

So posts 6 & 18 are lies and Kbank doesn't really offer the service, okaydokay!

 

 

 

Do you clearly understand English?

 

I start to question you on  several levels.

 

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

20 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Do you clearly understand English?

 

I start to question you on  several levels.

 

 

 

 

I understand it enough to know that in post 21 you wrote, "Of course they are not  available in Thailand.       There is no escrow system in Thailand", despite being given earlier proof that they are!  Probably best if you go troll somebody else because I'm not interested!

[watcharacters]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I understand it enough to know that in post 21 you wrote, "Of course they are not  available in Thailand.       There is no escrow system in Thailand", despite being given earlier proof that they are!  Probably best if you go troll somebody else because I'm not interested!

 

 

 

Maybe you define escrow differently than I do.

 

 

I know an escrow company  as being 100% neutral between buyers and sellers under penalty of law.

 

Please disagree with that!     Is that available in Thailand?   If  you think it's available  please provide a couple of links to reputable escrow companies.

 

We all know you can do that.

 

 

TIA

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by watcharacters