American claims self-defense as patron says man murdered in Pattaya was "trouble-maker"

[Tom Cahill]

Excuse e if someone else has come up with this elementary problem with this latest version of the story.  If the Aussy was always  "like this"  a.k.a.  "a trouble maker",  yet also a regular,  how does this make sense?

Surely being violent against the staff would get him barred?  What on earth was he doing in there?

I'm not saying that he was or he wasn't or that he even did anything,  but the fundamental issue isn't the death,  as deaths happen all the time.  The issue is that if the bar lets people do stuff like this,  then ultimately they're to blame.

If  he's a violent drunk,  then he should be kept out of places when he's drunk.  This is probably the main reason that people get barred from drinking places.  If you let people in who're known to create such a scene as that which is alleged,  then this kind of thing will happen all of the time.

Violent people get barred.  If they weren't barred then this kind of thing would be happening in every bar in every town,  all over the world.

The bar is probably lying,  granted,  but the lies do come at a cost,  and the cost is,  no one with any sense should ever go there again.

[Pattaya46]

18 minutes ago, Tom Cahill said:

If the Aussy was always  "like this"  a.k.a.  "a trouble maker",  yet also a regular,  how does this make sense?

 

I didn't know this guy, but guys who did talked about him on other forum. They seems to say he was a nice guy, a pleasant company in bars, a big spender,... everything positive, except that he could become bad/violent when he was really drunk...

If true, and knowing that, the bar should have been careful to not let him reach this bad limit... IMHO.

[GOLDBUGGY]

8 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

I don't know what you are talking about guys. From what I know about Thai laws (from previous murder cases) there is nothing like 3rd, 2nd of 1st Degree for Murder in Thai laws.

Murder is just "an unlawful killing of a person" and so in this case this is a Murder.

No! Thailand has different Degrees for Murder as well as different punishments. Here they are:

 

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/criminal-code-murder-death-sections-288-294/

 

[speedtripler]

52 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

I didn't know this guy, but guys who did talked about him on other forum. They seems to say he was a nice guy, a pleasant company in bars, a big spender,... everything positive, except that he could become bad/violent when he was really drunk...

If true, and knowing that, the bar should have been careful to not let him reach this bad limit... IMHO.

As if an underpaid teenage bartender or waitress is qualified enough to tell when a guy who gets violent sometimes should be allowed to drink 10 beers or 12 or 14.....especially a regular customer

 

Refusing him a beer might start a bigger issue than just letting him drink it

 

Regardless of any of that, it doesn't excuse the yank for killing him

 

I used to spend a lot of time in bars and I never saw a tourist the thais could not manage to beat to a pulp if necessary... If necessary they can call in a dozen mocyc drivers from outside to ensure that the Farang will never win

 

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

I don't understand why certain people here are trying to shift the blame for this to the Bar Owner and his Waitresses.

 

It is You who needs to take responsibility for your own actions, and not some Bar Owner or Bar Girl to watch out for you, and cut you off when they think you had too many. Which then you may become violent.

 

They try to keep alcohol out of the hands of children and set age limits to be even able to drink legally, in the hopes that by then you are an adult and can act accordingly after a few drinks. If you can't control your liquor or become violent when you drink, then you just shouldn't drink at all. It is that simple!

 

I am sure this was not the first time when both of these men became this way after a few too many drinks. Now one is dead and the other facing a very lengthy jail sentence in a Thai Prison. I am not sure which one is wirst off. In my view they both should have known better by now.  Sadly they didn't. That when you live by the sword you die by the sword.  

[SpicyMeatball]

Seems that the Aussie was a repeat drunken A-hole (no surprise there) & got what he had coming.

Hope the American has a good defence lawyer.

 

[speedtripler]

33 minutes ago, SpicyMeatball said:

Seems that the Aussie was a repeat drunken A-hole (no surprise there) & got what he had coming.

Hope the American has a good defence lawyer.

 

It seems like nothing.... 

Half a dozen conflicting stories on the Web about both of them by now

The American has 1 previous murder under his belt so if I had to flip a coin I'd say he went overboard teaching the ozzie a violent  lesson and is the most guilty party... 

 

The friends who may have egged him on or videotaped the assault and the dead/dying victim  afterwards should be dealt with severely Imo 

 

Deported isn't good enough.... 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by speedtripler

[sambum]

14 minutes ago, SpicyMeatball said:

Seems that the Aussie was a repeat drunken A-hole (no surprise there) & got what he had coming.

Hope the American has a good defence lawyer.

 

So death for being a repeat drunken A-hole? I'm glad you're not a judge in Pattaya - the place would be deserted!

[lamyai3]

There's four very similar long threads on the first page of the Pattaya forum running on this topic. Couldn't three of them be closed and redirected? 

[hstew]

This dufus can say what he wants, the more he says the tighter the noose becomes.

It matters NOT what the aussie victim did or didn't do, this US/mexican tuff guy is in a world of hurt now and will definitely spend some glorious time behind the pipes in one of the many fine penal institutions on offer in the wasteland referred to as Thailand. May acupuncture of your dirt-shute be enjoyable.

Som nom na tube-steak.

Edited February 13, 2018 by hstew
myofb

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

No! Thailand has different Degrees for Murder as well as different punishments. Here they are:

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/criminal-code-murder-death-sections-288-294/

???

No different degrees for Murder in the page you linked 

The page is a list of "Offence Causing Death"

 

Quote

Section 288. Murder

 

Whoever, murdering the other person, shall be imprisoned by death or imprisoned as from fifteen years to twenty years.

 

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

18 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

???

No different degrees for Murder in the page you linked 

The page is a list of "Offence Causing Death"

 

 

Is it that you can't read or just refuse to read? 

 

Premeditated Murder in Thailand (1st Degree Murder in the United States) carries the Death Penalty in Thailand and like it does in many States in the United States.

 

Manslaughter in Thailand (3rd Degree Murder in the United States) is inflecting injury on a person causing death, when you did not intend to kill him, resulting in 3 to 20 years in a Thai Prison. In the United States it could be Life (25 years) but generally it isn't and is 15 years or less. Depending on the circumstances. 

 

Murder in Thailand, which was not Premeditated but you inflected injury with the intent to cause death (2nd Degree Murder in the United States) results in punishment of between 15 to 20 years in jail, and close to what it is in the United States. 

 

Is it that you can't see the differnece  between the Death Penalty or spending 3 years in Prison, or you can't see the difference and simularities in Thailand to the United States, because they don't attach a number beside the different types of murder in Thailand? . 

[AloisAmrein]

Quality tourists in Pattaya. That's the sort of people TAT wants for making Pattaya a tourist destination for families. Bad guys in, good guys out. Congratulation to TAT and Immigration.

[JemJem]

Will we ever know the truth (or, rather, will we ever think that we know the truth) in this case ? Not sure.

 

I tend to think, for now anyway, that the guy should be tried for manslaughter, and that this horrible act wasn't anything to do with self-defence. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

8 hours ago, speedtripler said:

It seems like nothing.... 

Half a dozen conflicting stories on the Web about both of them by now

The American has 1 previous murder under his belt so if I had to flip a coin I'd say he went overboard teaching the ozzie a violent  lesson and is the most guilty party... 

 

The friends who may have egged him on or videotaped the assault and the dead/dying victim  afterwards should be dealt with severely Imo 

 

Deported isn't good enough.... 

 

 

If his friends did egg him on and there was 3 or more that is a crime in Thailand under Section 294

 

Section 294. Death as a Result of Mob Activity

Whoever participates in a public order offense (Public Drunkennes, Disorderly Conduct, etc.) among three persons upwards, and any person, whether such person participated or not has died, shall be imprisoned not more of two years or fined not more of four thousand Baht, or both.

If the participant in such affray can show that he or she has acted so as to prevent such affray or in lawful defense, such participant shall not be punished.

[boomerangutang]

22 hours ago, Happy enough said:

why can't everyone just get along hey. better to just avoid these confrontations and walk away if at all possible

A sucker punch is a sucker punch: it means getting punched with no warning. It's a coward's way.

 

Anyhow, the American is 50 times worse than a coward, ....he's a murderer.

 

Thailand's #1 Eng.lang. daily had an article about the incident today, ....and it bends over backwards to whitewash what happened.  Despicable reporting.  It says the victim was choking the bargirl 'until she was blue in the face'.  It stated the murderer only laid one punch on the victim.  Both those items are completely false, from all witnesses at the scene.   Whomever wrote that article in the Post is either getting paid to lie or is a terrible journalist.

 

Since the Army took over Thailand, there have been no provisions for online public commentary on articles or letters re; Thailand's two Eng.lang dailies.  Yet more proof, if any were needed, of the iron grip the Army has placed on free speech in Thailand.

 

 

[Briggsy]

#Releasethecctv   the full unedited version

 

Oops that might spoil the cops' extortion.

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

#Releasethecctv   the full unedited version

 

Oops that might spoil the cops' extortion.

Channel 9 reporting that the police do have CCTV footage after all.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/02/13/13/31/american-basher-jose-manuel-polanco-junior-has-killed-before-thailand-bar-benjamin-robb

[boomerangutang]

I ask openly - to any guy on this forum, whether you would have intervened in that scenario?   I realize it all happened very quickly, to there would have been scant chance to intervene to save the victim's life, even if a guy were prompted to do so.

 

It's a tough question.  I'm sure every guy has asked himself 'what would I do?' if I saw a bully severely beating up another guy.  There are other considerations, of course:  The bully could re-direct his rage toward you, the intervener.   The bully's buddies would likely jump on you or anyone who actively interfered, .....and so on. 

 

Knowing myself, I think I would have at least stood and confronted the bully by shouting.  When seeing the bully repeatedly stomping the prone man's head, I'd like to think I would have taken more dynamic action - perhaps grabbed a barstool and cracked it over the bully's back - and then I would probably have run off to a safe distance - because it's likely the bully and/or his buddies would be wanting to crush my skull also.   If I had done something like that, at least it might have diverted the bully from his murderous action, and possibly given the victim a chance to survive.

 

I am a rare type - an intervener in dire situations.  No Asians would do so, and few farang.  

[Briggsy]

4 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Channel 9 reporting that the police do have CCTV footage after all.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/02/13/13/31/american-basher-jose-manuel-polanco-junior-has-killed-before-thailand-bar-benjamin-robb

I know.

 

Usually the cops here release a video taken by a smartphone of a tv screen playing the relevant cctv clip complete with their clueless commentary, background police station noises and shaking hands. Very 21st century.

 

However, if this complicates a huge bung or even a small one, it won't be released.

 

#Releasethecctv

[Mattd]

21 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

However, if this complicates a huge bung or even a small one, it won't be released.

It certainly is very suspect, especially when you add in the 'friendly' press coverage from certain Thai media.

 

One thing is for sure, the truth, regardless of what it is, will never come out, likely this will be like most cases, loads of noise to start with, then total silence.

[Eagle60]

So much mis-information to deflect from the true nature of the situation. Lots of gossip.......Clear all the grey areas and gossip. You have one man dead and one man alive. One man dead can not speak. Family left reeling from this awful and tragic event. The man left behind is a criminal, who has killed before. His brutality and violence killed this man. Therefore he should without question he punished and preferably locked up for a very long time. Sorry I do not buy the trouble maker info. Being a trouble maker does not give someone the right to kill. Lots of people get drunk and unruly in bars. If he did what some say, its wrong but does he deserve to be brutally killed for it ? If as all the gossip says, he was a trouble maker and was doing such bad things, any one on here who has been to bars, knows 100% the Thai staff would have reacted, he would have been asked to leave and a load of Thai people (including girls) would have attacked him. If not, then the bar must hold some accountability for not staffing correctly and acting accordingly to keep its patrons safe. I understand situations do occur quickly and it is not always easy to control. I am not blaming the bar. But come on !  If this guy was so bad, why was he let in. Its easy to condemn a man with no voice. The American guy has no right whatsoever to act as judge, juror and executioner. Who does he think he is ? His brutality killed a man and sorry, but you now need to pay the price for that violent brutality. Whether it was an accident, or not. Prison for life would be my choice. I do not let gossip and mis-information turn a savagery into some sort of heroic act. Not that naive. Any of us who do not get into fights, are not violent and like to have fun safely (which I think is the majority of us), should be sick of these sorts of people. I know I am. We allow a small minority in society to act as bullies and thugs. They are the ones with inadequacy issues and little boy syndrome...why should we have to put up with it. Lock him up and we can all be safer in the knowledge there is one less savage on the street. If it was accidental and I am wrong, one still has to pay the price for one's actions. All so unnecessary. I have no idea what happened and actually do not want to know the gory details. It makes me feel sick. But if you do something that results in the death of someone, you must be punished severely, with perhaps some leniency if it was deemed as accidental. But punished you are. I do not believe the Australian was going to kill someone and maybe he was badly behaved, but to be killed for it, is plain wrong.  Sympathy for the family left behind having to pick up the pieces.

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by davidcc

[ttrd]

12 hours ago, Tom Cahill said:

Excuse e if someone else has come up with this elementary problem with this latest version of the story.  If the Aussy was always  "like this"  a.k.a.  "a trouble maker",  yet also a regular,  how does this make sense?

Surely being violent against the staff would get him barred?  What on earth was he doing in there?

I'm not saying that he was or he wasn't or that he even did anything,  but the fundamental issue isn't the death,  as deaths happen all the time.  The issue is that if the bar lets people do stuff like this,  then ultimately they're to blame.

If  he's a violent drunk,  then he should be kept out of places when he's drunk.  This is probably the main reason that people get barred from drinking places.  If you let people in who're known to create such a scene as that which is alleged,  then this kind of thing will happen all of the time.

Violent people get barred.  If they weren't barred then this kind of thing would be happening in every bar in every town,  all over the world.

The bar is probably lying,  granted,  but the lies do come at a cost,  and the cost is,  no one with any sense should ever go there again.

Its a difference between a troublemaker and a penny less troublemaker - in Thailand no one will be kept out of a bar as long as it seems they are intending to spend money in the premises - With other words, money talks and unfortunately its the only things that matters....

[Pattaya46]

On ‎13‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 10:41 AM, cornishcarlos said:

 

It's all just media reports so far, nothing has been confirmed.... The majority seem to believe the stomping story, not sure why ?

There has been no credible witness statements, no CCTV evidence, just 2 conflicting stories. 

It will be interesting to see how the investigation pans out.

 

"Police Superintendent Apichai Kroppech said the [CCTV] vision, which will not be released to the public, clearly shows Mr Robb being punched in the face then kicked while he lay on the ground at least 10 times".

 

From https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/02/14/14/44/new-picture-emerges-of-aftermath-of-thailand-brawl

[Briggsy]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

"Police Superintendent Apichai Kroppech said the [CCTV] vision, which will not be released to the public, clearly shows Mr Robb being punched in the face then kicked while he lay on the ground at least 10 times".

Thought so, they won't release it. The American will pay for a reduced sentence.

 

My guess - initially sentenced to 10 years, halved for guilty plea.

Reduced to 3 on appeal. Then royal pardon. Will serve just under 2.

[Media1]

Just now, Briggsy said:

Thought so, they won't release it. The American will pay for a reduced sentence.

 

My guess - initially sentenced to 10 years, halved for guilty plea.

Reduced to 3 on appeal. Then royal pardon. Will serve just under 2.

What pardon lol

[cornishcarlos]

Well it would seem the police are now making some progress. That's good.

I hope the truth comes out and the right punishment is handed down, if he is found guilty.

[Media1]

3 hours ago, Mattd said:

Channel 9 reporting that the police do have CCTV footage after all.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/02/13/13/31/american-basher-jose-manuel-polanco-junior-has-killed-before-thailand-bar-benjamin-robb

the dirty waitress looks lovely lol. She looks like she just got out of the clink.

[Chivas]

Enough witnesses to this event. Police need to ensure they all give relevant statements and subsequent evidence  and yes i would 100%

[pegman]

Early prediction. 12 years