American who killed Australian tourist in Pattaya bar fight has murdered before

[yogi100]

6 minutes ago, Donotdisturb said:

Apologies. I suppose you're one of the guys who is in pattaya for the opera, the museums, the intellectual chats you can have in a bar, the clean beach and sea, the historical artefacts, the hygienic food, the yoga classes, the library, etc. Sorry silly me...

 

Yes silly you all right. It would appear that you've never even been to Pattaya.

 

People do not go on holiday to Pattaya in order to visit museums and historical artifacts etc etc. And neither would anyone including yourself. Give us an example of a single museum, opera house or historical artifact in Pattaya that one single tourist has ever visited or has even wanted to. Culture vultures do not visit places like Pattaya they prefer places like Florence London or Paris.

[uklawyer]

55 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

this was my point earlier, nobody seems to know, or the truth is lost in so many interpretations of the event. He could have confronted the Aussie who leaves the girl alone and punches the American (hence the self defense plea).

 

Maybe, perhaps, did he?, didn't he?..................................

While the details of the law vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, normally a plea of self defence can include using reasonable force (typically, certainly in most Western jurisdictions, this is interpreted strictly and so is perhaps often better described as the minimum force necessary) in defence of oneself, another person or even property.  What is reasonable obviously depends upon the circumstances of the case.  If someone is aiming a gun at someone, it may well be reasonable to shoot that person dead.  However, in this case, assuming that the deceased had put the waitress down by the time the guy hit him, it is unlikely that even a single punch could be deemed to be self defence (defence of another), as the "attack" by the deceased on the waitress would have been over.  Therefore, any subsequent attack by the American upon the deceased would be retribution rather than any attempt to defend the waitress and the legal defence of self defence would fail.  Under English law, one might argue provocation, although that is a limited defence that can only be used to reduce a likely murder conviction to manslaughter.  I am not sure if any such defence, partial or total, exists in Thai law.

In the event that the American's legal team successfully argues that his attack upon the deceased was undertaken to defend the waitress from an on-going attack and that it consisted of a single punch, one would have thought that even a single, powerful punch (that obviously could and in fact did lead to a middle aged man's death) might be considered to be excessive, in that a man the size of the American could presumably have simply ushered the deceased away from the waitress.  Unless there was an obvious risk of the waitress being seriously hurt or killed, such a violent assault on the Australian is unlikely, in my opinion, to be considered reasonable force, as it just wasn't necessary or reasonable.  If, as the policeman's statement says, the American proceeded to kick and stamp on the deceased's head, then it would be extraordinary if his plea of self defence was successful.  One would have thought that, in such circumstances, he would be very lucky to get away with manslaughter, although it is not uncommon in cases in which the deceased is not considered blameless (as is alleged here) for Courts to fudge the issue a little and end up with a manslaughter conviction that upon a strict interpretation of the law probably should be murder (although that is often in jury cases).  If it is proved, surely stamping on the head of an unconscious man would be enough to show an intention to kill.  If not, what was he trying to do?  The guy was already unconscious.

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, cardinalblue said:

The Aussie guy was a bully...he learned the hard way...

 

the american guy should think about a MMA career in 2 years...

 

 

 

The American will probably be on a "time out" for a spell.    So no MMA.

 

I put my vote for the not buffed , yellow shirted  falang who stood up well against a Thai onslaught.

 

I'd go out for a bar hop with him any time.    No idea of nationality..

 

 

[watcharacters]

Just now, uklawyer said:

While the details of the law vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, normally a plea of self defence can include using reasonable force (typically, certainly in most Western jurisdictions, this is interpreted strictly and so is perhaps often better described as the minimum force necessary) in defence of oneself, another person or even property.  What is reasonable obviously depends upon the circumstances of the case.  If someone is aiming a gun at someone, it may well be reasonable to shoot that person dead.  However, in this case, assuming that the deceased had put the waitress down by the time the guy hit him, it is unlikely that even a single punch could be deemed to be self defence (defence of another), as the "attack" by the deceased on the waitress would have been over.  Therefore, any subsequent attack by the American upon the deceased would be retribution rather than any attempt to defend the waitress and the legal defence of self defence would fail.  Under English law, one might argue provocation, although that is a limited defence that can only be used to reduce a likely murder conviction to manslaughter.  I am not sure if any such defence, partial or total, exists in Thai law.

In the event that the American's legal team successfully argues that his attack upon the deceased was undertaken to defend the waitress from an on-going attack and that it consisted of a single punch, one would have thought that even a single, powerful punch (that obviously could and in fact did lead to a middle aged man's death) might be considered to be excessive, in that a man the size of the American could presumably have simply ushered the deceased away from the waitress.  Unless there was an obvious risk of the waitress being seriously hurt or killed, such a violent assault on the Australian is unlikely, in my opinion, to be considered reasonable force, as it just wasn't necessary or reasonable.  If, as the policeman's statement says, the American proceeded to kick and stamp on the deceased's head, then it would be extraordinary if his plea of self defence was successful.  One would have thought that, in such circumstances, he would be very lucky to get away with manslaughter, although it is not uncommon in cases in which the deceased is not considered blameless (as is alleged here) for Courts to fudge the issue a little and end up with a manslaughter conviction that upon a strict interpretation of the law probably should be murder (although that is often in jury cases).  If it is proved, surely stamping on the head of an unconscious man would be enough to show an intention to kill.  If not, what was he trying to do?  The guy was already unconscious.

 

 

Paragraphs,  My Son..

 

It appears as a lesson and not a post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Megasin1]

2 highly undesirable people met in a bar and only 1 left, nothing new here. You can't blame Thai immigration for this one, for those of you trying to add an extra couple of hours onto the already inefficient entry queue. You probably can't blame the Americans either as he had served his time, even if it did seem lenient, once he has paid his dues, he has paid his dues. Perhaps it should be an international law that anyone who has committed certain crimes for which they were convicted, shouldn't be allowed passports for life. Many problems are now evolving due to Globalisation and the cheap flight system which means any low life can basically go anywhere in the world for a few hundred quid. They enforced stricter international airport controls to reduce the risk of terrorism surely it can't be difficult to keep criminals in their own country on an international scale, just pick a few like Murder, Manslaughter, Paedophilia, Rape and they can never have a passport with a really hefty penalty for countries that cock up and issue a passport anyway. 

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

Yes silly you all right. It would appear that you've never even been to Pattaya.

 

People do not go on holiday to Pattaya in order to visit museums and historical artifacts etc etc. And neither would anyone including yourself. Give us an example of a single museum, opera house or historical artifact in Pattaya that one single tourist has ever visited or has even wanted to. Culture vultures do not visit places like Pattaya they prefer places like Florence London or Paris.

https://theculturetrip.com/asia/thailand/articles/the-10-best-museums-in-pattaya-thailand/

 

http://www.inspirepattaya.com/pattaya/grand-opera-orphanage-pattaya-26-november-2017/

 

https://www.viator.com/Pattaya-tours/Historical-and-Heritage-Tours/d344-g4-c12

Edited February 13, 2018 by Peterw42

[watcharacters]

4 minutes ago, Megasin1 said:

2 highly undesirable people met in a bar and only 1 left, nothing new here. You can't blame Thai immigration for this one, for those of you trying to add an extra couple of hours onto the already inefficient entry queue. You probably can't blame the Americans either as he had served his time, even if it did seem lenient, once he has paid his dues, he has paid his dues. Perhaps it should be an international law that anyone who has committed certain crimes for which they were convicted, shouldn't be allowed passports for life. Many problems are now evolving due to Globalisation and the cheap flight system which means any low life can basically go anywhere in the world for a few hundred quid. They enforced stricter international airport controls to reduce the risk of terrorism surely it can't be difficult to keep criminals in their own country on an international scale, just pick a few like Murder, Manslaughter, Paedophilia, Rape and they can never have a passport with a really hefty penalty for countries that cock up and issue a passport anyway. 

 

Got it.

 

Mad Max..

 

Thunderdome?

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by watcharacters

[Henrik Andersen]

Purely a scumbag and I say it before I was sure he do this before and surely will do it again so stop say I am just a beerbar still please 

This post are to you there comment me on so meny things 

Do you know who you are.... 

[catman20]

5 hours ago, colinneil said:

Polanco said it was self defence, yet he has killed before.

Sounds like a total nutter who should be locked up for life.

and they say lighting never strikes’  in the same place twice.

[yogi100]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

https://theculturetrip.com/asia/thailand/articles/the-10-best-museums-in-pattaya-thailand/

 

I actually appreciate a bit of culture but I forgot Ripleys.

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, Henrik Andersen said:

Purely a scumbag and I say it before I was sure he do this before and surely will do it again so stop say I am just a beerbar still please 

This post are to you there comment me on so meny things 

Do you know who you are.... 

 

 

Who are you?.

 

 

[lubfishin]

4 hours ago, jvs said:

And yet a country that knows of his criminal past lets him have a passport and travel!!!!!Well done very advanced western country keep up the good work.They seem to let anybody out but try to get in!!!

May I ask where you are from?

[Henrik Andersen]

Just now, watcharacters said:

 

 

Who are you?.

 

 

Very intelligent answer 

[speckio]

"When the United states sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems.

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, CockneyGit said:

And yet this man can get a visa to enter Thailand no problem. Well done Immigration, keep up the good work..!!

 

 

Bad guys in, geriatric Bridge players out!

[watcharacters]

3 minutes ago, Henrik Andersen said:

Very intelligent answer 

 

 

It was not an answer.    (reply Yes.)

 

It was a question.

 

So,  "Who are you"?

 

 

[Henrik Andersen]

2 minutes ago, speckio said:

"When the United states sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems.

It seems not only us do that 

[speckio]

5 hours ago, colinneil said:

Polanco said it was self defence, yet he has killed before.

Sounds like a total nutter who should be locked up for life.

 

i read that some bystanders stated he stomped on the guys head upwards of 20 times.... that is definitely not self-defense 

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, maxtingtong said:

Self defense killing someone while 'saving' a bargirl in the workplace..

Waiting for the one popping up with 'his name doesn't really sound american'

We already had that on the first day.

[watcharacters]

3 minutes ago, speckio said:

"When the United states sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems.

 

 

 

Yes,  these people were  SENT here by the USA.

 

Do you actually think out in you mind  what you post?

 

 

[jvs]

1 hour ago, fimo said:

Ex murdurers should have a special stamp on their passport.

Ex murderers should not have a passport.

[Henrik Andersen]

1 minute ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

It was not an answer.    (reply Yes.)

 

It was a question.

 

So,  "Who are you"?

 

 

I am husband to my wife 

Father to my child 

More you don't need to know 

[kingkenny]

It was probably a fight over the dart board hence the bar removing the CCTV evidence quickly.

[speckio]

5 hours ago, CockneyGit said:

And yet this man can get a visa to enter Thailand no problem. Well done Immigration, keep up the good work..!!

 

Americans don't require a visa to visit Thailand. Maybe you should be asking how he got a Passport?

[watcharacters]

Just now, Henrik Andersen said:

I am husband to my wife 

Father to my child 

More you don't need to know 

 

 

 

OK, 

 

No one is interested in you anyway.

 

Enjoy..

[kingkenny]

37 minutes ago, ttrd said:

The victim and the perpetrator who are originally from 2 different continents have both killed before and accidently met eachother in one of a million bars in Pattaya which seems to be the worlds hub of sad destinys...

When did the Aussie guy kill before? I must have missed that news..

[Donotdisturb]

22 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

Yes silly you all right. It would appear that you've never even been to Pattaya.

 

People do not go on holiday to Pattaya in order to visit museums and historical artifacts etc etc. And neither would anyone including yourself. Give us an example of a single museum, opera house or historical artifact in Pattaya that one single tourist has ever visited or has even wanted to. Culture vultures do not visit places like Pattaya they prefer places like Florence London or Paris.

Exactly my point genius ?

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Yes,  these people were  SENT here by the USA.

 

Do you actually think out in you mind  what you post?

 

 

 

I'm afraid the joke that he made went right over your head. He's parodying Donald Trump's speech about Mexicans ... you know the one where he called them rapists?

 

 

[watcharacters]

Just now, speckio said:

Americans don't require a visa to visit Thailand. Maybe you should be asking how he got a Passport?

 

 

I'm guessing many, if not most  Americans know a felony conviction precludes a person from owning a  firearm or securing a passport.     That can be overturned with an appeal in some circumstances, but it is not a given.

 

 

 

 

[speckio]

4 hours ago, Wiggy said:

Precisely. While many of us have to report every 90 days having never even got so much as a traffic ticket in my entire life.

If was here on vacation he wouldn't require a visa. Americans can come and go as they please as long as they don't overstay 30 days.

 

I mean its possible he is an Ex-pat but I didn't see anything about him actually making his home in Thailand.