'Numerous fatalities' at Florida high school after ex-student opens fire

[riclag]

6 minutes ago, Skywalker69 said:

We also don't need video games, movies,music and books glorifying gun violence either 

Edited February 16, 2018 by riclag

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, riclag said:

We also don't need video games, movies,music and books glorifying gun violence either 

Video games are widely available throughout the world. Why would they have a special effect in the USA. Actually, the one correlation researchers find is that the more privately owned guns there are guns there are in relation to the population, the more gun crimes there will be. The USA has 4.4 percent of the world's population but Americans own 42 percent of the world's guns:

 

"From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American, according to a 2015 study by Adam Lankford, a professor at the University of Alabama.

Adjusted for population, only Yemen has a higher rate of mass shootings among countries with more than 10 million people — a distinction Mr. Lankford urged to avoid outliers. Yemen has the world’s second-highest rate of gun ownership after the United States."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

 

That's not what I said.  I said that feminism begets neither gun violence nor the decline of civilization.  Your response attempts (weakly) to defend an entirely different claim that there is some causative link between decline of civilization* and a certain demographic being the most likely to spawn mass murderers in America.

 

In fact I am taking a risk in replying to you at all because your opinions here seem to get deleted at a very high rate, resulting in mine being deleted as well because I quote you.  You're the ninth circuit court of message board members.

 

*which you have not even proved is happening

I observe that High school kids are the main group producing mass murderers in America. I see this as a breakdown in civilization because this is not a symptom found in healthy communities. What has changed in society? Gun laws? not really. Has America moved away from it's core foundations yes.  Is that because of the liberalization of America? Yes, obviously!

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I observe that High school kids are the main group producing mass murderers in America. I see this as a breakdown in civilization because this is not a symptom found in healthy communities. What has changed in society? Gun laws? not really. Has America moved away from it's core foundations yes.  Is that because of the liberalization of America? Yes, obviously!

So why do nations with far more liberal cultures have far lower rates of mass murder and homicides in general?  Your explanation is just another confirmation of Pavlov's famous theorem.

[mikebike]

23 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I observe that High school kids are the main group producing mass murderers in America. I see this as a breakdown in civilization because this is not a symptom found in healthy communities. What has changed in society? Gun laws? not really. Has America moved away from it's core foundations yes.  Is that because of the liberalization of America? Yes, obviously!

You can repeat this crap as often as it comforts you but without any proof other than your own echo chamber it is just passing wind.

[canuckamuck]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

So why do nations with far more liberal cultures have far lower rates of mass murder and homicides in general?  Your explanation is just another confirmation of Pavlov's famous theorem.

Society is in breakdown all over, just not in the same ways. Americans have access to guns but there is lots of knife crime in Britain, lots of rapes in Europe, suicide rates are very high. legitimate births at all time highs everywhere. Divorce rates, teen pregnancies, How about opiate abuse, abortions and welfare addicts.

It's all gone to crap. All brought to you by critical theory and the resulting progressive ideology . At some point people need to figure out they have been duped. It wasn't perfect before but the quality of mental health was better.

 

[canuckamuck]

3 minutes ago, mikebike said:

You can repeat this crap as often as it comforts you but without any proof other than your own echo chamber it is just passing wind.

Proof? of what? That high school shootings are a sign of a broken culture? If you can't get on board with that, there is no point discussing further.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

Society is in breakdown all over, just not in the same ways. Americans have access to guns but there is lots of knife crime in Britain, lots of rapes in Europe, suicide rates are very high. legitimate births at all time highs everywhere. Divorce rates, teen pregnancies, How about opiate abuse, abortions and welfare addicts.

It's all gone to crap. All brought to you by critical theory and the resulting progressive ideology . At some point people need to figure out they have been duped. It wasn't perfect before but the quality of mental health was better.

 

Nice unprovable and evasiive assertion. But the topic is about a mass murder., And your "explanation" doesn't explain why the US has such a high rate of mass murder and why in most other nations it's so much lower.  Whereas the observation that the more guns the citizenry holds, the more likely there is to be gun violence does correlate very closely.

[Air Smiles]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Proof? of what? That high school shootings are a sign of a broken culture? If you can't get on board with that, there is no point discussing further.

 

Yes proof! That ol chestnut.

 

Can you explain why school shootings are almost non existent in countries with tight gun control let alone 20 in the first month of the year?

 

Yes, these countries have lesbians, equal rights and everything ...but still no school shootings.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Air Smiles

[Air Smiles]

23 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

America needs to return to its values, They lost their way in the 60's. Family values America had much better mental health.

In Canada I used to drive to high school in a pickup with rifles and shotguns in the gun rack. Not a single person had any concerns about that. That's because we were all sane.

 

Can you explain why wholesome and sane people in the olden days were heavily armed while doing the school run?

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

 

Yes proof! That ol chestnut.

 

Can you explain why countries with tight gun control generally don't have school shootings let alone 20 in the first month of the year?

Because Liberalism is really the work of Satan, the ultimate source of all evil. No matter what the sin, Satan and Liberalism are at the bottom of it.

[Skywalker69]

These 4 countries have nearly eliminated gun deaths — here's what the US can learn

 

The US has seen a spate of mass shootings within the last couple months, reopening debates about gun control.

Some countries have figured out how to curb gun violence through targeted strategies.

Efforts from Japan, Australia, Norway, and the United Kingdom may all offer insight.

 

http://nordic.businessinsider.com/gun-deaths-nearly-eliminated-in-countries-what-us-can-learn-2017-11?r=US&IR=T#the-uk-took-a-multipronged-approach-4

 

From the text.

In Norway, for example, police officers fatally shoot people fewer times in nine years than US police do in a day.

 

 

[Skywalker69]

Sen. Marco Rubio Took $3.3M In NRA Blood Money, Says Now Is Not The Time To Talk About Gun Control

 

To absolutely no one’s surprise, Florida Senator Marco Rubio thinks gun control isn’t necessarily the answer to stopping the school shooting that killed at least 17 people in Parkland, Florida. Fox News’ Pete Doocy asked Rubio if he thought it was appropriate to be discussing gun control after the events.

 

http://www.joemygod.com/2018/02/14/marco-rubio-taken-3-2m-nra-blood-money-says-now-not-time-talk-gun-control/

[canuckamuck]

44 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Nice unprovable and evasiive assertion. But the topic is about a mass murder., And your "explanation" doesn't explain why the US has such a high rate of mass murder and why in most other nations it's so much lower.  Whereas the observation that the more guns the citizenry holds, the more likely there is to be gun violence does correlate very closely.

I said America has access to guns.  So I was inferring that this is why mentally ill American boys are people are acting out in this way. If you take away the guns, the sickness will just manifest in a different way.

[canuckamuck]

50 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

 

Yes proof! That ol chestnut.

 

Can you explain why school shootings are almost non existent in countries with tight gun control let alone 20 in the first month of the year?

 

Yes, these countries have lesbians, equal rights and everything ...but still no school shootings.

Answered in my response above.

[canuckamuck]

48 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

 

Can you explain why wholesome and sane people in the olden days were heavily armed while doing the school run?

Can you explain what you are referring to?

[canuckamuck]

50 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Because Liberalism is really the work of Satan, the ultimate source of all evil. No matter what the sin, Satan and Liberalism are at the bottom of it.

Society has been liberalizing since the 60's at a steady pace. When you compare the news of today to the news of the 50's do you see the fruit? People used to leave their doors unlocked and kids played all day without checking in with their parents. Now we live in a dystopian novel. 

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I said America has access to guns.  So I was inferring that this is why mentally ill American boys are people are acting out in this way. If you take away the guns, the sickness will just manifest in a different way.

First off, even if what you say is true, it would mean a lot less murdered people.

Second, what major social ills are manifested at a higher rate in social more liberal societies than are manifested in the USA? Drug Abuse? No. Crime in general? No. So what are those ills that liberalism is generating?

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Society has been liberalizing since the 60's at a steady pace. When you compare the news of today to the news of the 50's do you see the fruit? People used to leave their doors unlocked and kids played all day without checking in with their parents. Now we live in a dystopian novel. 

 Sure there were some things that were better for some people in the 50's but there were many many other things that were a lot worst. I am sure none of us want to go back to "Jim Crow" or polio, or Mccarthyism, or ............

 Sure we have our challenges today, but we all seem to remember the good old times foundly, partly because we were a lot younger then,  trust me friend, The good old times were not all that good for many many people. 

[canuckamuck]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

First off, even if what you say is true, it would mean a lot less murdered people.

Second, what major social ills are manifested at a higher rate in social more liberal societies than are manifested in the USA? Drug Abuse? No. Crime in general? No. So what are those ills that liberalism is generating?

I have answered this a few times and you are clearly not  prepared to consider my points.

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

I have answered this a few times and you are clearly not  prepared to consider my points.

 

No you haven't answered. You only assert it's because of Liberalism and it just manifests as homicides in the USA because of the ubiquitousness of guns. But when I ask you what ills Liberalism is creating in more liberal societies that aren't present in the USA or at much lower levels, you've got nothing. In fact, the wealthy liberal societies of Europe have a much lower rate of social ills overall than does the USA.

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I have answered this a few times and you are clearly not  prepared to consider my points.

 

No, you have answered with unsubstantiated claims. And those claims will never be substantiated because they're not true.

[canuckamuck]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 Sure there were some things that were better for some people in the 50's but there were many many other things that were a lot worst. I am sure none of us want to go back to "Jim Crow" or polio, or Mccarthyism, or ............

 Sure we have our challenges today, but we all seem to remember the good old times foundly, partly because we were a lot younger then,  trust me friend, The good old times were not all that good for many many people. 

It cannot be denied that race issues were definitely getting better right through until the 90's That seems have reversed recently.

Medicine and technology are not political constructs so they cannot be easily included in this discussion. Mccarthy was on to something and I wish he would have exposed the Marxists who infiltrated the University systems post WW2. The result was critical theory developed into postmodernism and the deconstruction of western core foundations. Modern day witch hunts by neo-moralists are more viscious than Mccarthy was made out to be.

[canuckamuck]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

No you haven't answered. You only assert it's because of Liberalism and it just manifests as homicides in the USA because of the ubiquitousness of guns. But when I ask you what ills Liberalism is creating in more liberal societies that aren't present in the USA or at much lower levels, you've got nothing. In fact, the wealthy liberal societies of Europe have a much lower rate of social ills overall than does the USA.

post 217

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

Society is in breakdown all over, just not in the same ways. Americans have access to guns but there is lots of knife crime in Britain, lots of rapes in Europe, suicide rates are very high. legitimate births at all time highs everywhere. Divorce rates, teen pregnancies, How about opiate abuse, abortions and welfare addicts.

It's all gone to crap. All brought to you by critical theory and the resulting progressive ideology . At some point people need to figure out they have been duped. It wasn't perfect before but the quality of mental health was better.

 

 There are a lot more people in the world now and I agree it creates a lot more pressure, but unless you advocate we gass a couple of billion people. Even if I agreed that the "good old times ' were really good  I don't know how we can even go back to the good old times 

The quality of mental health was definitely not better then, It was simply locked in the basement.

Unless ofcourse one enjoys a lobotomy LOL

The subject is easy to research, simple google " mental health 1950"

PS: I know you did not mean "quality of mental health" but meant "state of an individual's mental health" 

And that is an arguable conversation, with results based on criteria. 

Was there less depression then? Ask all the women who were not allowed to reach their full potential and whose lives were compromised  ( a considerable part of the population you would agree)

Ask people of color (not only blacks) .

Was there less mental disease?  Was such desease better treated?

 But I agree The good old days were better for a segment of the population 

Older White Man.and even that is arguable .

.

Double ps: .  in the 50's we would not even have this conversation. unless we did it by currier pigeon  Lol

Edited February 16, 2018 by sirineou

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

12 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, you have answered with unsubstantiated claims. And those claims will never be substantiated because they're not true.

post 217

You can't possible be referring to this"

"Society is in breakdown all over, just not in the same ways. Americans have access to guns but there is lots of knife crime in Britain, lots of rapes in Europe, suicide rates are very high. legitimate births at all time highs everywhere. Divorce rates, teen pregnancies, How about opiate abuse, abortions and welfare addicts.

It's all gone to crap. All brought to you by critical theory and the resulting progressive ideology . At some point people need to figure out they have been duped. It wasn't perfect before but the quality of mental health was better."

There are no numbers here, nothing that qualifies as fact. Nothing that compares the rates of these various crimes in Europe to the rates in the USA. You'll have to do better than this.

In fact the average rate of suicide in Europe is 11,9 whereas in the USA it's 12.6. And the countries with the highest rates in Europe tend to be those that are most politically conservative. Belarus, Russia, Hungary and Poland top the list. The only prosperous fully developed nation in Europe that has a higher suicide rate than Europe is Finland. The rest of the Scandinavian nations have lower suicide rates as does Germany and France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_suicide_rate

And teen pregnancies are at an historic low in the USA and are even lower in Europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_teenage_pregnancy

Rape statistics are undependable because countries vary widely in their definitions of rape.

I could go on but clearly you have no use for facts but just make assertions that reflect your prejudices.

 

 

[sirineou]

29 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

It cannot be denied that race issues were definitely getting better right through until the 90's That seems have reversed recently.

Medicine and technology are not political constructs so they cannot be easily included in this discussion. Mccarthy was on to something and I wish he would have exposed the Marxists who infiltrated the University systems post WW2. The result was critical theory developed into postmodernism and the deconstruction of western core foundations. Modern day witch hunts by neo-moralists are more viscious than Mccarthy was made out to be.

 Medical policy is a political construct. 

[stevenl]

48 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You can't possible be referring to this"

"Society is in breakdown all over, just not in the same ways. Americans have access to guns but there is lots of knife crime in Britain, lots of rapes in Europe, suicide rates are very high. legitimate births at all time highs everywhere. Divorce rates, teen pregnancies, How about opiate abuse, abortions and welfare addicts.

It's all gone to crap. All brought to you by critical theory and the resulting progressive ideology . At some point people need to figure out they have been duped. It wasn't perfect before but the quality of mental health was better."

There are no numbers here, nothing that qualifies as fact. Nothing that compares the rates of these various crimes in Europe to the rates in the USA. You'll have to do better than this.

In fact the average rate of suicide in Europe is 11,9 whereas in the USA it's 12.6. And the countries with the highest rates in Europe tend to be those that are most politically conservative. Belarus, Russia, Hungary and Poland top the list. The only prosperous fully developed nation in Europe that has a higher suicide rate than Europe is Finland. The rest of the Scandinavian nations have lower suicide rates as does Germany and France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_suicide_rate

And teen pregnancies are at an historic low in the USA and are even lower in Europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_teenage_pregnancy

Rape statistics are undependable because countries vary widely in their definitions of rape.

I could go on but clearly you have no use for facts but just make assertions that reflect your prejudices.

 

 

As I said, his claims are unsubstantiated and will not be substantiated because they're not true.

[canuckamuck]

35 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You can't possible be referring to this"

"Society is in breakdown all over, just not in the same ways. Americans have access to guns but there is lots of knife crime in Britain, lots of rapes in Europe, suicide rates are very high. legitimate births at all time highs everywhere. Divorce rates, teen pregnancies, How about opiate abuse, abortions and welfare addicts.

It's all gone to crap. All brought to you by critical theory and the resulting progressive ideology . At some point people need to figure out they have been duped. It wasn't perfect before but the quality of mental health was better."

There are no numbers here, nothing that qualifies as fact. Nothing that compares the rates of these various crimes in Europe to the rates in the USA. You'll have to do better than this.

In fact the average rate of suicide in Europe is 11,9 whereas in the USA it's 12.6. And the countries with the highest rates in Europe tend to be those that are most politically conservative. Belarus, Russia, Hungary and Poland top the list. The only prosperous fully developed nation in Europe that has a higher suicide rate than Europe is Finland. The rest of the Scandinavian nations have lower suicide rates as does Germany and France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_suicide_rate

And teen pregnancies are at an historic low in the USA and are even lower in Europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_teenage_pregnancy

Rape statistics are undependable because countries vary widely in their definitions of rape.

I could go on but clearly you have no use for facts but just make assertions that reflect your prejudices.

 

Well a mixed bag then, I did make some assumptions there and I will own it. I assumed suicides and Teen pregnancies were up I didn't check. But Europe and Britain have become more violent. 

Quote

"Crime in England and Wales at highest level in a decade, with 18 per cent increase in violent offences in last year"

That's a headline from the  from The Independant. Just one of many.

And opiate abuse is rampant. I did check. for example drug induced deaths are up around 200 % in Sweden since 2006. That was taken from the European drug report which is a complicated thing to link because all the countries have separate PDF's.

So you can have a cookie for catching me out on some of my assertions.

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

 There are a lot more people in the world now and I agree it creates a lot more pressure, but unless you advocate we gass a couple of billion people. Even if I agreed that the "good old times ' were really good  I don't know how we can even go back to the good old times 

The quality of mental health was definitely not better then, It was simply locked in the basement.

Unless ofcourse one enjoys a lobotomy LOL

The subject is easy to research, simple google " mental health 1950"

PS: I know you did not mean "quality of mental health" but meant "state of an individual's mental health" 

And that is an arguable conversation, with results based on criteria. 

Was there less depression then? Ask all the women who were not allowed to reach their full potential and whose lives were compromised  ( a considerable part of the population you would agree)

Ask people of color (not only blacks) .

Was there less mental disease?  Was such desease better treated?

 But I agree The good old days were better for a segment of the population 

Older White Man.and even that is arguable .

.

Double ps: .  in the 50's we would not even have this conversation. unless we did it by currier pigeon  Lol

That women were more unsatisfied in the 50's is impossible to assess.  Some female personalities are suited to juggling career and family, and some are not. The whole world was openly racist 50 years ago, but even so western nations were the least racist and the most self critical about it. Great strides were made, but victim culture from the left has polarized the issue to the point were people can't truthfully discuss the issue without causing a riot.

Medicine and technology has improved steadily. This is science, the liberals didn't cure polio or discover the superconductor. Science did.

And yes things were better for Old white men. Not anymore. Their opinions are invalid, they are considered sexual predators, racists, and recently a women's panel had a discussion about whether or not they have been made redundant. We are the bourgeois, the cause of every historical evil and none of the good.