Yingluck gets ready to make her move

[CGW]

1 hour ago, TooPoopedToPop said:

A return to power of the corrupt Shinawatra Clan?

If thats what the people want to vote for (again) why not? or better stay with a corrupt "self imposed" power wielders!

Or do you have a better idea?

[robblok]

Just now, Becker said:

You have made perfectly clear over the last few years how much disdain you have for the Shins and seemingly also the fairly democratic process that brought them to power. Although your support for the junta seems to have cooled drastically I get the feeling you still prefer them to anything an election would bring about.

So to my question; what would you realistically like to see happen in Thailand in the coming years? We both know that a bunch of honest, moral leaders will not suddenly materialize and that Thailand will have to undergo some sort of transition for this to happen.

The only way I can see that this will take place is for democracy to be given a chance as the steady stream of coups clearly don't work. What do you propose?

I don't support the junta anymore not one bit. But that does not change how corrupt the Shins are. It just means that i now see that both are just corrupt more of the same. 

 

What i want to see is an election and that is it.. i can't hope for no corruption as it will not possible. I just hope that those who are corrupt and scandals will pop up get punished. I don't really care who will come to power preferably PTP as they will be checked most and so have the least chance for corruption.  But I just hate it when people get away with corruption.

[lovelomsak]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your funny if you really believe this, as others have said this has been tried all over the word and the Shins are as corrupt as the rest without a real non corrupt alternative there is no hope. Anyone seeing the Shins as non corrupt saviors is crazy. Right now there is NOBODY there who could bring change.

 

Coups don't fix anything.. but neither do bloody revolutions. Maybe only satisfy the blood thirst of certain members. Your not alone in proposing it.. though at least you not favor it.

. but neither do bloody revolutions. Maybe only satisfy the blood thirst of certain members. Your not alone in proposing it.. though at least you not favor i

Was not America the result of revolution? I alittle more than blood thirst I would say huh.

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

You remain a junta apologist-I thought your "recantation" last week was hilarious.

 

Just changed to BS setting 2-"Tactful"

You seem to be not the brightest person alive, because one can be against the junta and against the Shins. My dislike of the junta has not changed my dislike of the shins.

[Becker]

25 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your funny if you really believe this, as others have said this has been tried all over the word and the Shins are as corrupt as the rest without a real non corrupt alternative there is no hope. Anyone seeing the Shins as non corrupt saviors is crazy. Right now there is NOBODY there who could bring change.

 

Coups don't fix anything.. but neither do bloody revolutions. Maybe only satisfy the blood thirst of certain members. Your not alone in proposing it.. though at least you not favor it.

It's been tried all over the world and doesn't work? Now you're just repeating RickBradford's inane "argument" against democracy. He even lists China as having tried and failed in turning democratic!

Tried all over the world it has and in the vast majority of cases a transition from junta rule to democracy has been a resounding success. Do I really have to list all the countries with past junta rulers who today are thriving (albeit in some cases struggling) democracies???

Edited February 18, 2018 by Becker

[cornishcarlos]

3 minutes ago, Becker said:

the fairly democratic process

 

Lol.... About sums it up :)

 

I'm not a big fan of the Shins, I think they lined their pockets to the point of bursting but they fooled the masses.

The Junta are not really fooling anyone, but they are keeping the peace somewhat and lining their pockets just a little bit.

You are right, there is no magical instant solution, but after 4 yrs of green jackets, I reckon it's someone else turn to get fat at the trough and see what they can do !!! Not the Shins again though...

[lovelomsak]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I don't support the junta anymore not one bit. But that does not change how corrupt the Shins are. It just means that i now see that both are just corrupt more of the same. 

 

What i want to see is an election and that is it.. i can't hope for no corruption as it will not possible. I just hope that those who are corrupt and scandals will pop up get punished. I don't really care who will come to power preferably PTP as they will be checked most and so have the least chance for corruption.  But I just hate it when people get away with corruption.

You keep going on about the corrupt Shins.

 If the people want them and vote them in then they are the  corrupt the people want it is the peoples choice get over it.

 You cannot buy the loyalty the poor have for the Shins have.

Edited February 18, 2018 by lovelomsak

[RickBradford]

3 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Education and free press is what is needed. Changing from one piggy to another isn't going to change a thing. The people can't make a choice until they are informed.

I get the feeling that both sides of politics would rather the people remained uninformed to the greatest degree possible.

 

That  seems to be the most plausible reason for the lamentable state of the educational system.

[rtco]

Lot's of talk about corruption here. That is the way it is here in Asia people, live with it. The junta are as guilty, if not more so, than the Shins but at least they were voted in to power via democratic elections rather than gaining power through the barrel of a gun. Strip away corruption and who would you rather have ... a true party of the people or an non-elected military who couldn't organise a "pi#@ up in a brewery"?      

[Becker]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Education and free press is what is needed. 

Does that include the MSM?

[Odysseus123]

Just now, Becker said:

It's been tried all over the world and does't work? Now you're just repeating RickBradford's inane "argument" against democracy. He even lists China as having tried and failed in turning democratic!

Tried all over the world it has and in the vast majority of cases a transition from junta rule to democracy has been a resounding success. Do I really have to list all the countries with past junta rulers who today are thriving (albeit in some cases struggling) democracies???

Yup,remains an apologist.

 

The recantation -under a lot of heat-was purely a tactical retreat.

 

It is also mind benumbingly boring and repetitive as he trots out the same old saws..

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

You keep going on about the corrupt Shins.

 If the people want them and vote them in then it the corrupt the people want it is the peoples choice get over it.

 You cannot buy the loyalty the poor have for the Shins have.

This is a topic about the Shins, in the junta watch scandal I comment about the junta. 

 

I just don't accept corruption from any side and will comment on it anyway.

[canuckamuck]

Just now, Becker said:

Does that include the MSM?

No I clearly said free press, not the same as multinational propagandist monopolies.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

Great to see you again!

Your very presence brings sunshine to my day and is an intellectual borealis at night!

 

Where have you been?

Sleeping?

He always seems very tired.

?

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Becker said:

It's been tried all over the world and does't work? Now you're just repeating RickBradford's inane "argument" against democracy. He even lists China as having tried and failed in turning democratic!

Tried all over the world it has and in the vast majority of cases a transition from junta rule to democracy has been a resounding success. Do I really have to list all the countries with past junta rulers who today are thriving (albeit in some cases struggling) democracies???

I am not saying democracies don't work, I am saying bloody revolutions don't work.. they just bring in an other clan to power. 

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

. but neither do bloody revolutions. Maybe only satisfy the blood thirst of certain members. Your not alone in proposing it.. though at least you not favor i

Was not America the result of revolution? I alittle more than blood thirst I would say huh.

Yes America was the result of a revolution and now wealth is divided equally there there is no new elite who is powerful there is no new corruption. Its a virtual utopia over there. 

[jcsmith]

1 hour ago, hansnl said:

You seem to like the idea this might eventually lead to a civil war?

You really want the Thai people to stand up to each other?

The Shins will do anything to get back in power.

My two cents... Nobody wants to see a civil war or a cost of lives. However, this cycle that Thailand has been in can't go on forever. You can't keep having elected governments overthrown by the military, or stepping down in response to protests which are backed by the opposition while the military stands down. This country came close to that in 2010. There needs to be compromise here, but most importantly the military needs to stop stepping in and to do their jobs in supporting democratically elected governments. Failing that this is always going to be right at the surface.

I hope that whatever does happen politically, the reds move on from the Shinawatras. They are always going to be an excuse for the other side to rally against.

Edited February 18, 2018 by jcsmith

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Education and free press is what is needed. Changing from one piggy to another isn't going to change a thing. The people can't make a choice until they are informed.

Yes a free press that keeps stories up and does follow up, that would be great. Yes that is my whole point changing it from one side to the other side just does not change a thing. Until corruption cases are handled fast (not like the watch scandal) and clearly and money that has been made from corruption is taken away plus a big fine nothing will change.

 

[Becker]

13 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Lol.... About sums it up :)

 

I'm not a big fan of the Shins, I think they lined their pockets to the point of bursting but they fooled the masses.

The Junta are not really fooling anyone, but they are keeping the peace somewhat and lining their pockets just a little bit.

You are right, there is no magical instant solution, but after 4 yrs of green jackets, I reckon it's someone else turn to get fat at the trough and see what they can do !!! Not the Shins again though...

And I say if the people vote them in again let them have them - warts and all.

[Confuscious]

I think Prayuth needs this very urgent.

 

[Becker]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes America was the result of a revolution and now wealth is divided equally there there is no new elite who is powerful there is no new corruption. Its a virtual utopia over there. 

If your idea of a utopia is a society where wealth is equally divided then that's been tried and it didn't work. However, most will agree that the US political system is better than the existing system in Thailand (despite the fact that a man-child utterly unfit for the office was elected president).

[Becker]

16 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

No I clearly said free press, not the same as multinational propagandist monopolies.

Ah, and who decide what is what?

[Odysseus123]

6 minutes ago, Becker said:

If your idea of a utopia is a society where wealth is equally divided then that's been tried and it didn't work. However, most will agree that the US political system is better than the existing system in Thailand (despite the fact that a man-child utterly unfit for the office was elected president).

Yes,but those are  the breaks.

 

As far as Thailand is concerned NO PRACTICE and no perfection.

 

I look forward to the predictable military coup #67 or 74-whatever the godawful number is....

 

Sarcasm alert.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Odysseus123

[MaeJoMTB]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

They have a dualistic one-"Reds and Yellows"

More of a racial/cultural/language divide IMHO

Reds (aka Lao people) Vs Yellows (aka Siam people)

 

If I may quote .....

"Speakers of Lao in the North and Northeast have seen the prime minister they elected into office dismissed by the courts twice, overthrown in a coup twice, and election results nullified twice. Such antics, if continued, could provoke resistance and rebellion along age-old and not-completely-forgotten ethnic lines."

https://isaanrecord.com/2015/09/02/guest-editorial-thai-has-the-highest-percentage-of-second-language-speakers-among-major-languages/

Edited February 18, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Becker said:

If your idea of a utopia is a society where wealth is equally divided then that's been tried and it didn't work. However, most will agree that the US political system is better than the existing system in Thailand (despite the fact that a man-child utterly unfit for the office was elected president).

My idea of utopia is not that wealth is equally divided, that is usually the definition of people on your side of the fence (and it never happens after a revolution). Yes the political system is better than in Thailand... but Thrump.. really.... 

 

But you are missing the point, the point what i was making is that after a revolution the normal people who are the cannon fodder don't get such a better deal as before. There will just be an other elite in power and money is not all of a sudden divided better. That is what I mean with that revolutions don't work (at least not for those who are at the bottom of the foodchain). It works perfectly for the new leaders and new elite of course. 

 

Do you honestly believe that the old elite would not be replaced by new elite that wants to line their pockets and that Thaksin is not just new elite who wants the same things the old elite wants power and money. That is what we have been seeing all the time.. whenever an other government gets in power they put their friends in positions of power so they are protected from investigations and get their own monopolies. Its not different from the previous ones in power. This never changes.

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, MaeJoMTB said:

More of a racial/cultural/language divide IMHO

Reds (aka Lao people) Vs Yellows (aka Siam people)

Yes,that is a reasonable point of view.

 

Tho' I use the terms "Central Thai" and "Perimeter Thai".

[robblok]

20 minutes ago, Becker said:

And I say if the people vote them in again let them have them - warts and all.

Yes please if they get voted in let them get to power.. but if they are corrupt and proven to be.. do let them be punished... popularity and getting voted in does not mean that we should accept the corruption and do nothing about it. 

 

And if they try to consolidate power and that way make sure they can't be touched for their crimes will you still support them ?

[jenny2017]

52 minutes ago, robblok said:

Who lifted them out of poverty.. last time I checked all the Thais were still depended on handouts especially the farmers (just like the PTP wants it so they can promise something to get their votes again) If they were not depending on handouts they would not be so easy to manipulate. Did the PTP fund the hospitals enough ?

 

Little corruption scandals.. the Shins like others are corrupt to the core. 

 The handouts were not really helping farmers. It was more than confusing to take money from all parties and still not knowing the bad guys..

[Becker]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

My idea of utopia is not that wealth is equally divided, that is usually the definition of people on your side of the fence (and it never happens after a revolution). Yes the political system is better than in Thailand... but Thrump.. really.... 

 

But you are missing the point, the point what i was making is that after a revolution the normal people who are the cannon fodder don't get such a better deal as before. There will just be an other elite in power and money is not all of a sudden divided better. That is what I mean with that revolutions don't work (at least not for those who are at the bottom of the foodchain). It works perfectly for the new leaders and new elite of course. 

 

Do you honestly believe that the old elite would not be replaced by new elite that wants to line their pockets and that Thaksin is not just new elite who wants the same things the old elite wants power and money. That is what we have been seeing all the time.. whenever an other government gets in power they put their friends in positions of power so they are protected from investigations and get their own monopolies. Its not different from the previous ones in power. This never changes.

1. Just out of curiosity what is my "side of the fence"?

2. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself but here goes:

Thailand's endless cycle of coups must end and something else must be tried. Let democracy have a chance without the interference of an entrenched elite. This does in no way guarantee a positive outcome but as Einstein said; "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.

[Becker]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes please if they get voted in let them get to power.. but if they are corrupt and proven to be.. do let them be punished... popularity and getting voted in does not mean that we should accept the corruption and do nothing about it. 

 

And if they try to consolidate power and that way make sure they can't be touched for their crimes will you still support them ?

You mean if they rig the system so that they're no longer accountable to the voters like the junta has done? Of course not.

And just to be clear (and as I have stated ad nauseam); I do not support the Shins. On the contrary, I detest them. I just support the people's right to vote them into power.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Becker