Use of Overseas Credit cards

[jonwilly]

Today I went to buy a new Mobile in the Maya.

I was offered a 'Contract' for the phone system.

OK for me, no prob and as I have just cashed in a UK Investment I wanted to use my UK Credit card, issued by a major UK bank.

They said they were happy and we proceed to payment.

This was refused, it was only B6,300 approx,150 pounds equivalent for the Phone line.

The staff were upset as they had unboxed the phone.

OK so I paid using my Thai Bank Visa card for phone system and the new Phone.

On return I called UK card services who said the Thai end had refused the payment and as far as the card company where concerned they had no problem with my card or credit line.

The discussion got a bit heavy for my PIN was locked by the Thai end and the rather nice young lady said it's not the first time we have had cards refused by the Other end for No reason other then we think They want you to use their national cards or cash.

So I will suggest folks beware when planning to purchase using overseas Credit Card.

 

john

[FolkGuitar]

All of my credit cards are from US banks. I use 2-3 different cards, making weekly purchases. I use them often as I get air mileage points with them. I've only had one refusal over the last 10+ years and that was by my own bank thinking it was a fraudulent transaction. When I called them, I told them I'd be traveling in Asia for the foreseeable future, and haven't had a problem with that card since.

[RichCor]

26 minutes ago, jonwilly said:

I wanted to use my UK Credit card, issued by a major UK bank.

They said they were happy and we proceed to payment.

This was refused, it was only B6,300 approx,150 pounds equivalent for the Phone line.

The staff were upset as they had unboxed the phone.

OK so I paid using my Thai Bank Visa card for phone system and the new Phone.

On return I called UK card services who said the Thai end had refused the payment and as far as the card company where concerned they had no problem with my card or credit line.

 

This sound really odd. Usually the payment processing terminal won't even attempt the transaction if the payment processor are blocking the use of oversees cards (or the vendor isn't authorized). In  this case the issuing bank would never see the transaction attempted.  

 

I've tried using my foreign cards in 7-Eleven (no go), but they work fine at Tesco/Lotus.

 

If the payment processor and vendor are cleared to use overseas cards, the everything is intended to work unless some glitch (between the payment processor and the card processor) occurs.

 

I've never heard of a transaction being attempted/approved then having the transaction terminal refuse the payment -- without it being a handshake glitch.  All the middlemen who help handle the transaction want the transaction to go through as that's how they make their sacks of money.

[Genericnic]

46 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

All of my credit cards are from US banks. I use 2-3 different cards, making weekly purchases. I use them often as I get air mileage points with them. I've only had one refusal over the last 10+ years and that was by my own bank thinking it was a fraudulent transaction. When I called them, I told them I'd be traveling in Asia for the foreseeable future, and haven't had a problem with that card since.

I have 2 US issued CapitalOne cards that I use. The only problem I have ever had was trying to purchase train tickets on the SRT website. Strangely, one card works with no problem and the other is always declined. No one seems to have a clue as to why.

 

David

 

[FolkGuitar]

10 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

I have 2 US issued CapitalOne cards that I use. The only problem I have ever had was trying to purchase train tickets on the SRT website. Strangely, one card works with no problem and the other is always declined. No one seems to have a clue as to why.

 

David

 

 

Oddly enough, it was a Capital One card that I had the problem with as well. But once I called, I haven't had a problem since, and the silly people just keep increasing and increasing my credit line, despite living on a fixed income.

 

[TerryLH]

1 hour ago, RichCor said:

I've tried using my foreign cards in 7-Eleven (no go), but they work fine at Tesco/Lotus.

Since when does 7-11 take credit cards?  Serious question.

 

Some banks will stop cards from being used if the pattern of use changes, or they are used where there hasn't been a pattern of use.  Most have a way to notify them you'll be traveling here or wherever and will allow purchases.

[NancyL]

Was this with True?  I've had endless problems with them accepting a U.S. credit card.  Finally gave up and starting paying with my Bangkok Bank online banking.  I think some of the problem may be that the charge is submitted to your credit card company as "True Money" and that raises some flags.  Or the problem could be that their terminals aren't set up to read chipped cards. 

 

I ran into this problem with some of the residents at McKean/Dok Kaew who want to pay with chipped debit cards that you can run as a credit card without a PIN number.  Fortunately, McKean/Dok Kaew is a small operation and I've worked closely with their cashier's office over the years on behalf of a number of their residents.  They turned down a charge from one of their U.S. residents, saying the message read that he didn't have sufficient funds.  I knew from his online banking that he did. I did trial runs with two other U.S. residents and they received the same message.  No way all three residents could have insufficient funds.  Then I suggested the cashier call their merchant services provider, Bangkok Bank to ask if there was a problem on their end and she protested, saying it's always a 45 minute wait.  She agreed to let me try and when I hit the English language option on BB's voicemail menu, I was connected to assistance immediately and got the problem sorted in 10 minutes.  Apparently, there'd been an "upgrade" to their terminal to accepted chipped cards and it needed to be reprogrammed.  The BB customer service rep walked me through the steps to reprogram the McKean/Dok Kaew debit/credit card reader.

 

It's very possible that the OPs mobile phone provider hasn't upgraded their terminals.  

[RichCor]

4 hours ago, TerryLH said:

Since when does 7-11 take credit cards?  Serious question.

7-Eleven has payment terminals. Usually accept 7-Eleven, SmartPurse, and VISA Cash cards.

 

also...

 

Swipe it: 7-Eleven to accept credit cards
By webfact, May 18, 2016 in Thailand News 

 

The credit card payment will first be implemented at 7-Eleven stores in Bangkok and tourist destinations some time in the fourth quarter of this year, but eventually, all 7-Eleven stores will accept credit cards.

 

 

Sorry about the apparent thread hijack

[jonwilly]

Yes Nancy correct.

I have kept my comments as polite as possible.

The lady at Card Services in UK was very helpful even after I demanded to know why I was being prevented by them, from using my card.

Not us them.

I personally know nothing about the 'Mechanics' of how cards work, but please believe me the Staff said they where happy to take a non Thai card.

They showed me the card reader and it said words to effect of, Do not accept this card.

I tried inserting my PIN, no go.

Lady in UK was aware of that, she was well informed and adamant that it was the Thai end that refused my card.

I am annoyed as my Card is Locked and according to the UK lady I must use a UK ATM to unlock it.

Letter on route to UK Bank and Card Services.

 

john

[chingmai331]

When in T'land I use my USA credit card only for air tix, and only after informing Chase Bank of my plans.  That may be 3x per year.  Otherwise i luv cash whether baht, kip, HK dollar or rupee.

[khwaibah]

The only time my credit card from the USA has every been rejected in Thailand is by the Air Asia website. Excepted by AA on the phone but not on their website and they admit it.

[scottiejohn]

14 hours ago, jonwilly said:

for my PIN was locked by the Thai end

How and when did the PIN get locked. How many times did you enter it?
I assume it was a chip and pin terminal you/they were using. Or had you caused a PIN error earlier, which seems the more likely scenario.

If it was a PIN error it would show up on the terminal as PIN ERROR  before handshaking.  All other errors are transmitted back to the terminal after the terminal/issuing bank authorisation centre have completed a handshake (exchanged info). If it was any other problem other than PIN the UK authorisation centre would have issued a 2/3 digit code back to the Thai terminal where the operator would translate/decode these codes which tell the operator the reason for the decline.

(NB;  This is the UK system, I cannot vouch for any others)

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

for my PIN was locked by the Thai end

 

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

How and when did the PIN get locked. How many times did you enter it?
I assume it was a chip and pin terminal you/they were using. Or had you caused a PIN error earlier, which seems the more likely scenario.

If it was a PIN error it would show up on the terminal as PIN ERROR  before handshaking.  All other errors are transmitted back to the terminal after the terminal/issuing bank authorisation centre have completed a handshake (exchanged info). If it was any other problem other than PIN the UK authorisation centre would have issued a 2/3 digit code back to the Thai terminal where the operator would translate/decode these codes which tell the operator the reason for the decline.

(NB;  This is the UK system, I cannot vouch for any others)

Yes, this whole scenario suggests to me that the PIN was incorrectly entered. Please don't get uptight OP, it does happen.

 

It happened to me in China via an ATM that insisted that my PIN was incorrect, even though I was convinced I had entered the right one.

 

Once I'd unblocked the card via my bank's ATM back in the UK it worked perfectly well, including back in China once I'd returned there.

 

I do find this comment rather strange: 'we have had cards refused by the Other end for No reason other then we think They want you to use their national cards or cash'. Personally, I think that's a load of rubbish.

 

Hope the OP gets his problem with the card resolved and has no further issues.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Moonlover

[XGM]

3 hours ago, chingmai331 said:

When in T'land I use my USA credit card only for air tix, and only after informing Chase Bank of my plans.  That may be 3x per year.  Otherwise i luv cash whether baht, kip, HK dollar or rupee.

 

Same here. I only use my non-Thai card when I absolutely have to.

 

- Domestic flights: I prefer to print a payment voucher from the airline site and pay it in cash in 7/11, BigC etc.

- Hotels: I normally use Paypal with Agoda.

- Deposits in hotels: I prefer to give a cash deposit rather than my credit card. Most hotels have this option.

- Car rental - no way around a credit card for the deposit.

 

Almost anything else, cash.

Edited February 19, 2018 by XGM

[Mark1066]

I used foreign debit and credit cards several times a week for over 12 years here and the only times I ever had any problems were when poorly trained cashiers tried to circumvent the PIN entry in the last couple of years. Some shops seem to have older machines where PINs don't need to be entered but when you try to skip entering the PIN on newer machines, the card ends up being blocked (after several attempts).

 

The chip and PIN machines do seem a little odd here though - the messages they produce when declining a card are plain wrong some of the time. My card was declined in Sizzler, supposedly due to a lack of funds, but the actual problem was that I'd forgotten my PIN and entered the wrong number.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Mark1066

[RichCor]

54 minutes ago, Mark1066 said:

My card was declined in Sizzler, supposedly due to a lack of funds, but the actual problem was that I'd forgotten my PIN and entered the wrong number.

 

Message obfuscation (specifically in a mis-entered PIN instance) is Security 101. When the transaction is declined the bank sends back an error message code. They don't want to give any 'real hints' to people trying to commit card fraud as to why the transaction failed. It also gives the impression the account is empty, stop trying.

 

[Mark1066]

5 minutes ago, RichCor said:

 

Message obfuscation (specifically in a mis-entered PIN instance) is Security 101. When the transaction is declined the bank sends back an error message code. They don't want to give any 'real hints' to people trying to commit card fraud as to why the transaction failed. It also gives the impression the account is empty, stop trying.

 

Fair enough. A little embarrassing when you're trying to pay for a meal and the cashier reads the message to you though.

[scottiejohn]

 

4 hours ago, RichCor said:

Message obfuscation (specifically in a mis-entered PIN instance) is Security 101. When the transaction is declined the bank sends back an error message code.

Please be careful with statements like that.

My previous response was regarding UK card authorisation.  Which Country system are you talking about.

It all depends on the "chip&Pin" system/Country/Authorisation System you are talking about.

A straightforward three attempts at the wrong PIN at a "Chip&Pin" terminal needs no connection with the Authorisation centre, it is in the (UK) chip. There is no feedback/handshake.

I suggest you also differentiate between the "Gateway" Authentication Codes and the "Caustic" Activation Codes (NB applies to UK Only).  (Only 2 digits (letters or numbers but not both) are fed back on a terminal.  Gateway is different for online transactions after the handshake.

 

[RichCor]

The introduction of EMV cards and payment terminals has certainly complicated these issues.

 

Is the transaction happening in real-time, or is the payment terminal just interacting with the EMV card offline and set to batch processing at a later time. Has the payment terminal been properly configured to handle all the various transaction states/option, and what transaction options does the card holders account allow.

 

The payment terminal message displayed on a declined transaction may not reflect the actual state of the card account holder's funding status.

 

Though I prefer having the payment terminal display "Transaction Declined" or "Network Error" over it displaying "Insufficient Funds" when there's a card purchase/transaction issue or uncleared flag creating an authorization error -- especially when there's definitely sufficient funds or credit available in the account(s).

 

I miss the good old days of simple magnetic stripe swiping.

[krey]

On 2/18/2018 at 8:20 PM, khwaibah said:

The only time my credit card from the USA has every been rejected in Thailand is by the Air Asia website. Excepted by AA on the phone but not on their website and they admit it.

Funny my Canadian Visa Card is also rejected by Air Asia

 

I know everything I come to Thailand I have to call my bank and tell them I am going to Asia, that way no security red flags pop up and they put my card on hold.  If I forget the first purchase almost always fails from not being in your home country.

[Mark1066]

42 minutes ago, krey said:

Funny my Canadian Visa Card is also rejected by Air Asia

 

I know everything I come to Thailand I have to call my bank and tell them I am going to Asia, that way no security red flags pop up and they put my card on hold.  If I forget the first purchase almost always fails from not being in your home country.

One problem I started to encounter a year or two ago was being declined for online payments because the payment processor included an IP filter in their code, i.e. if an IP address was not in the same part of the world as the issuing bank of the debit or credit card being used, the payment was declined.

[RichCor]

Some online purchases will also fail if the website taking the hand-entered card card holder details ignores or fails to present or include the extra authentication steps of Verified by Visa or MasterCard SecureCode, where the purchaser is also required to verify/authenticate the card and purchase amount.

 

Sometimes a purchase just fails the retailer or terminal processor's in-house pre-screening automated filter and checklist for potential fraud. 

 

Retailers are sometimes charged a few cents by credit companies/gateway providers just for submitting a card for approval (even if approval fails).  If you have a business with a massive number of failed authorizations the cost of just asking the credit card company to authorize can amount to a lot of money.  For this reason, some retailers/gateways may decide to use a pre-authorization service. 

[jonwilly]

As the originator of this thread I must mention that I spoke to reps of my UK Bank and was assured my Master card was OK and should work, They had not Stopped my card.

Today at the leading hospital on the moat their accounts folk refused my UK card, B50,000 + sum,  they did not try the PIN.

Back in my place I contacted UK Card services who once again assured me that my card was not blocked by their end and that it was a Thai problem.

My Thai issued Visa card worked,

Extremely annoyed for I have made 4 payments for B1,000 to B1,500 items, 3 with Lazada and 1 with Si Net, with my UK card and no problems since original refusal.

 

john

[chingmai331]

I've never found any merchant, vendor, doctor or hospital refuse my cash.

[RichCor]

13 hours ago, jonwilly said:

Today at the leading hospital on the moat their accounts folk refused my UK card, B50,000 + sum,  they did not try the PIN.

Back in my place I contacted UK Card services who once again assured me that my card was not blocked by their end and that it was a Thai problem.

So if some payment terminals work and others don't, it's probably an issue with a particular payment network not handling the data/transaction/authentication negotiation process. While it might be interesting to know if the payment terminals had an company or agent in common, ultimately I doubt you could effect any change that would have your card working.

 

My main credit card will crash certain ATMs when I use them, with the ATM displaying sensitive connection data as it went down and restarted. You'd think they'd want to know so they can fix the issue but I tried to talk to the bank involved about it and they weren't interested, just said not to use the card. So I now just have different cards for different use cases.

[jonwilly]

I had breakfast with 2 local businessmen this morning and both said they are getting 'Stories' that overseas Credit Cards are being refused, nothing definite just local 'Gossip' from folk in business in CM.

Card services and Fraud department of my UK Bank where' Cagy' in what they said but both 'Suggested' that my experience was not unique.

I had not used my UK Credit Card for some time as I was content with my Thai Bank Visa Credit card, but having too much money in UK caused me to start using my UK Master Card.

I will now try my UK card for all credit punches and report as such.

 

john

Edited March 3, 2018 by jonwilly

[NancyL]

I think the problem may be with the programming of the terminal of a specific merchant and not with a specific bank not accepting overseas credit cards and/or a specific overseas credit card not being accepted here in Thailand.

 

I assist several residents at McKean/Dok Kaew with their financial business and recently, the finance office there was saying that none of the residents who had U.S. debit cards had any money in their accounts.  Of course, that was nonsense.  I owned a small business in the U.S. and dealt with the finances, including the credit card merchant services, so I suggested their finance office contact their merchant provider, Bangkok Bank to see if there was a problem with the programming on their credit/debit card reader or the way they were using it.

 

The cashier didn't want to do this, protesting that every time she calls, she has to wait on hold 45 minutes or longer.  I asked if I could make the call on their behalf and she said, sure.  I hit the English language option on the Bangkok Bank merchant services voice mail tree and was connected to a rep within three minutes.  And that rep was able to guide me and the cashier through the steps necessary to reprogram the McKean/Dok Kaew card machine to accept overseas chipped cards.  Apparently, there had been a programming upgrade to the machines that somehow McKean/Dok Kaew had missed. 

 

Perhaps it's related to them not leaving the machine online 24/7.  I know this was an issue with the machine for our small business in the U.S., because we used the same phone line for fax and credit/debit cards, so at night, we'd unplug the credit/debit card and leave it plugged in for the fax machine.  Of course, this was a few years ago, when the ability to receive faxes was more important than it is now.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, FolkGuitar said:

 

Oddly enough, it was a Capital One card that I had the problem with as well. But once I called, I haven't had a problem since, and the silly people just keep increasing and increasing my credit line, despite living on a fixed income.

 

Increasing credit limit is just an old scheme that scum bankers employ to suck people into paying more interest. They did that to me back in the 80s, and I paid a lot in interest before I was paid off and able to cut up my card.

[jonwilly]

Just used my UK Master card to buy B1,300 of goods.

I asked  if PIN was required.

No just sign, they use Krunsiri Bank and my Si Mat payment was accepted by the K Bank.

I don't know which bank  Lazada use but no problem.

It was Bangkok  Bank that refused my original and then Thursdays UK Credit card.

 

john

[FolkGuitar]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Increasing credit limit is just an old scheme that scum bankers employ to suck people into paying more interest.

 

Didn't work.  I don't use my cards any more or any less than I ever did.  They are a great tool when used wisely, but like any tool... in the hands of fool, dangerous.