Mont Clair Red WIne

[xylophone]

23 hours ago, mgthom63 said:

Any French Carignan wines you'd recommend?

I was fortunate enough to be a guest at Château La Bastide (Corbiere/Languedoc) and he and his wife put on a sumptuous meal/banquet which lasted for many hours and we sampled his wines.

 

I thought they were very good and they do have Carignan as a component, and you can buy it in Thailand – – Château La Bastide from Wine Connection, or at least you could a while ago!

 

Some of his Carignan vines are over a hundred years old and he has nurtured them carefully over the years. Worth a try?

[The manic]

On 26/02/2018 at 8:48 AM, helloagain said:

Diddums. Going to have to pay more. Like fags make it all $100 a packet or box. Get a life you all drink too much. Give your livers a rest

A glass of wine is nice with a meal and a nice way to relax. But I'm from Europe do wine is normal to me.  Just as I thought the wine situation was improving here it seems I am wrong. 

[SkyRider]

8 hours ago, xylophone said:

Certainly Bordeaux is amongst the highest priced wine in the world (along with some fine burgundies) and the better ones (the classed growths or "Cru's") are collectors dreams and can be a good investment.

 

However one of the problems with wine like that is that it is fairly tannic in its younger years and is aged in oak, neither of which would suit spicy food (as a general rule) and even the lesser Bordeaux wines show similar traits.

 

One of the reasons that New World wines such as those from the USA, Australia, Chile and so on have become so popular is because in the main they are well made wines, fruit forward/driven and not always spending any or much time in oak, so they can be paired with a huge range of foods, and are easy drinking

 

Unfortunately (IMO) some of the Australian winemakers decided to start producing hugely alcoholic wines with big tannins and I have tasted some at over 15% alcohol, and they are difficult to match with food. On the other hand Australia has a couple of regions which produce good everyday drinking wines at very reasonable prices (which I have mentioned previously) as well as other fine wines, many and varied.

I have liked the wines I have tasted from the USA and was fortunate enough to be given a case of Robert Mondavi 1984 Cabernet Sauvignon, which was delightful. Others have included Zinfandel from the Napa Valley, Syrah from Washington state and so on and other Cab Sauvignons which are well made and easy drinking.

 

These days it is easy to find some good and well made wines in the lower price bracket in most countries, especially those I have already mentioned, however not Thailand because of the exorbitant tax/duty.

 

There was another thread called Montclair wine and it ran for about 60 pages and there is a wealth of information, discussion, input from folks who know their wine and many recommendations on it. One very knowledgeable poster, Grant Smith has gone AWOL of late, however his job/business was importing wine (as well as writing about it) and he travelled to many countries around the world attending wine tastings.

 

That thread initially started because of the disgruntled folks like myself who railed against the fact that the wines produced by Siam winery here (Montclair et al) made no mention of the fact that fruit juice/fruit was added to the wine, apart from the fact you may well just spot the words fruit wine in small print, somewhere on the box/label, so they weren't being upfront about it. Whereas the boxed wines these days that come from Australia in the main, clearly state that the contents are a particular grape variety, blended with fruit juice.

I remember really liking Robert Mondavi, Cabernet Sauvignon, I used to have it often in the States, Tastes great!  I miss the variety I had in the States so much. 

 

If you had mentioned before that Mont Clair has fruit juices added, I missed that, and apologize.

I just read some previous posts on it, from 2016. So it has grape juice, and other fruit juices added to it. I didn't even know that, shows how blind I am.  Every other "fruit juice" wine I've tried in Thailand, tasted absolutely horrible to me.  

 

Maybe it's not such a bad thing for me that Thailand has recently made buying wine more difficult. At least it will make me search for some better deals, and even though I'll have to spend more, at least I'll get some more variety. 

[xylophone]

27 minutes ago, SkyRider said:

At least it will make me search for some better deals, and even though I'll have to spend more, at least I'll get some more variety. 

They are out there.............today have just bought wines from Chile, Oz and Italy with an average price of 410 baht per bottle and one was from the Carmenere grape which I like (from Chile).

 

Good hunting.

[sirocco]

But no, Sky Rider, your questioning
on MontClair has uncovered a deception on a false appellation of a wine that everyone thought of grape variety.
Of course, this is still wine, but various fruits.
Only, as in insurance, one had to read the fine print.
We are not all keen on good wines, animals, or paint,
we are still novices somewhere, but that does not make us ignorant.
  Continue to drink this multifruit wine and, from time to time, buy a very good wine and enjoy it in small sips, either during a meal or just for fun. A glass is enough.
The earth has given us two wonderful things: grapes and wheat.
Very good evening.
 

[SkyRider]

23 hours ago, sirocco said:

But no, Sky Rider, your questioning
on MontClair has uncovered a deception on a false appellation of a wine that everyone thought of grape variety.
Of course, this is still wine, but various fruits.
Only, as in insurance, one had to read the fine print.
We are not all keen on good wines, animals, or paint,
we are still novices somewhere, but that does not make us ignorant.
  Continue to drink this multifruit wine and, from time to time, buy a very good wine and enjoy it in small sips, either during a meal or just for fun. A glass is enough.
The earth has given us two wonderful things: grapes and wheat.
Very good evening.
 

Thinking about the Robert Mondavi that xylophone mentioned, really makes me want to have a bottle of it, or any great wine.

 

Good suggestion sirocco, to buy a very good wine, enjoy it in small sips, and only have one glass.  But knowing me, it will taste so good, I'll probably end up drinking the whole bottle, or 3/4 of it in one night.  I don't have that much will power.  And then going back to Mont Clair after that? I don't know if I can do it... lol.  

 

 

[xylophone]

33 minutes ago, SkyRider said:

Thinking about the Robert Mondavi that xylophone mentioned, really makes me want to have a bottle of it, or any great wine.

 

Good suggestion sirocco, to buy a very good wine, enjoy it in small sips, and only have one glass.  But knowing me, it will taste so good, I'll probably end up drinking the whole bottle, or 3/4 of it in one night.  I don't have that much will power.  And then going back to Mont Clair after that? I don't know if I can do it... lol.  

 

 

Well SkyRider, you sound a lot like me because once I've started on a good bottle of wine I find it difficult to stop although I have now managed to wind that back a bit, because for nigh on 45 to 50 years I would drink a bottle of red every night, apart from those times I was stuck in North and West Africa!!

 

Now I manage to drink half a bottle of red with my meal and a glass of sweet/sticky white or Portuguese port afterwards. The wine I buy always tastes as good if not a little better, resting overnight in the fridge, so I buy well.

 

Believe me once you have started on this route you will never go back to the likes of Montclair unless you are forced to do so through financial shortcomings and even then you will find it difficult!

 

As I said before, hunt the bargains out and you can do well with some good drinking and even better wines,  and thinking about the Robert Mondavi wine, it was a 1984 Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve and was great.

 

If you have a Villa Market near you, and you are missing that style of wine tremendously (and more) then go and look for a wine from Washington state called "Ste Michelle Syrah". A big fruit driven wine with layer upon layer of surprises.

[norrska]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I would drink a bottle of red every night, apart from those times I was stuck in North and West Africa!!

Quite strange as there are many fantastic Caves à vins, and wine merchants in West Africa due to the French influence.  It may have some of the best commercially available wine in the world as it is brought in by the container load, and also widely available in the many French bistros.

[xylophone]

19 minutes ago, norrska said:

Quite strange as there are many fantastic Caves à vins, and wine merchants in West Africa due to the French influence.  It may have some of the best commercially available wine in the world as it is brought in by the container load, and also widely available in the many French bistros.

Not in Nigeria in 1970 during/at the end of the Biafran war.............and especially on offshore on oil rigs, or in the Sahara (Libya) because alcohol was banned.

 

Nothing "strange" about that. Wrong again.

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, norrska said:

Quite strange as there are many fantastic Caves à vins, and wine merchants in West Africa due to the French influence.  It may have some of the best commercially available wine in the world as it is brought in by the container load, and also widely available in the many French bistros.

Wouldn't it be best if you went and bothered someone else on another thread with your incorrect assumptions and misleading information?

 

After all, there are hundreds if not thousands of matches on the Internet pairing red wine with Thai/spicy food and I quoted chefs and restaurateurs from around the world saying just the same. But you seem to think they are all wrong and you are right, but of course you are wrong.

 

Then you made an incorrect assumption with regards to me and my not visiting New Zealand, and the fact that they don't have spicy food there. And you were wrong again because I am a citizen of New Zealand and have lived there for half my life, and there are many, many Thai, Indian, Chinese (including Sichuan) restaurants in New Zealand, not to mention a few Vietnamese restaurants.

 

New Zealand also has some great chefs who often recommend pairing red wines with spicy foods, so you were wrong again.

 

Then you made another incorrect assumption about me and my time in West Africa, on which I have posted, which was again totally wrong.

 

I did decide to look at your last post because I wanted to see what other rubbish you were posting, and I was right, another incorrect assumption. 

 

Surely time to stop this nonsense against my posts, because you have been proven so wrong in your posts here. And I am going to put you on total and permanent ignore, and hopefully others having seen this, will take your posts for what they really are – – incorrect and often assumptive.

 

And as for using the term "Caves a vin", whatever were you trying to prove?

[mgthom63]

13 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

 

And as for using the term "Caves a vin", whatever were you trying to prove?

Pretentious? Moi? :)  

[norrska]

11 hours ago, xylophone said:

Not in Nigeria in 1970 during/at the end of the Biafran war.............and especially on offshore on oil rigs, or in the Sahara (Libya) because alcohol was banned.

 

Nothing "strange" about that. Wrong again.

Very strange that you think Nigeria is "West Africa".  There are lots of countries there and your generalization about Nigeria during one specific time period is not reflective of the entire region.   Nigeria wasn't technically even in French West Africa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_West_Africa. 

Some good homework for you in that link, although with your closed minded nature, doubtful it would be of much help to you.

 

 

[mgthom63]

11 minutes ago, norrska said:

Very strange that you think Nigeria is "West Africa".  There are lots of countries there and your generalization about Nigeria during one specific time period is not reflective of the entire region.   Nigeria wasn't technically even in French West Africa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_West_Africa. 

Some good homework for you in that link, although with your closed minded nature, doubtful it would be of much help to you.

 

 

 

Cheers for that Wiki insight Cliff.  I need to spend more time out of my Caves a vin.

[SkyRider]

12 hours ago, xylophone said:

Well SkyRider, you sound a lot like me because once I've started on a good bottle of wine I find it difficult to stop although I have now managed to wind that back a bit, because for nigh on 45 to 50 years I would drink a bottle of red every night, apart from those times I was stuck in North and West Africa!!

 

Now I manage to drink half a bottle of red with my meal and a glass of sweet/sticky white or Portuguese port afterwards. The wine I buy always tastes as good if not a little better, resting overnight in the fridge, so I buy well.

 

Believe me once you have started on this route you will never go back to the likes of Montclair unless you are forced to do so through financial shortcomings and even then you will find it difficult!

 

As I said before, hunt the bargains out and you can do well with some good drinking and even better wines,  and thinking about the Robert Mondavi wine, it was a 1984 Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve and was great.

 

If you have a Villa Market near you, and you are missing that style of wine tremendously (and more) then go and look for a wine from Washington state called "Ste Michelle Syrah". A big fruit driven wine with layer upon layer of surprises.

"forced to do so through financial shortcomings"  I'm already trying to be careful with my finances. That's why I've been drinking Mont Clair. The 10 liter box averaged about 149 baht per bottle.  A 300 bottle would double my wine costs, but all this discussing better tasting wine, is making me possibly willing to do that.  

 

Ste Michelle Syrah:  Syrah?  I usually stuck to cabs, merlot, malbec, etc.  I think I found syrahs to be "thin", or, not full bodied, (sorry, I don't know how to describe it).  How would this syrah compare to cabs in that regard?  

[xylophone]

59 minutes ago, mgthom63 said:

Cheers for that Wiki insight Cliff.  I need to spend more time out of my Caves a vin.

Nice one mgthom63..........I think that poster is a Troll. He has to be in view of his posts which bear no relation to reality.e.g........

 

--"Red wine and spicy food definitely do not match!

Wrong and proven so by chefs, restaurateurs and food and wine critics.

--"The chef would be blacklisted".

Well that's a nonsense again.

--"Well all of these people answer to the producers'.

Poppycock!

-- "Probably never been to New Zealand"

A complete nonsense as I am actually a New Zealand citizen and lived there.

--"New Zealand doesn't have any spicy food".

When in fact it is full of restaurants which specialise in it. 

--'Very strange that you think Nigeria is "West Africa".

Sorry to have to inform him that Nigeria is in fact in West Africa

 

This as I mentioned that I worked in West Africa, and for some strange reason the poster has gone onto talk about French West Africa, which I never mentioned. So he is wrong again.

 

Perhaps he gets on the juice when posting, who knows? But what I and others have seen is that his posts are generally a nonsense, and as one would a Troll, best ignored

 

 

[xylophone]

43 minutes ago, SkyRider said:

Ste Michelle Syrah:  Syrah?  I usually stuck to cabs, merlot, malbec, etc.  I think I found syrahs to be "thin", or, not full bodied, (sorry, I don't know how to describe it).  How would this syrah compare to cabs in that regard?  

You make an interesting point SkyRider, because I have also tasted quite a few Syrah out of the US which indeed are thin as you say, certainly not full-bodied as they can be.

 

I do believe it's because this grape does not get the recognition it deserves and a lot of the lower cost wines I have seen from the US with this grape would appear to come from younger plantings and not making the type of wine which Syrah is famous for.

 

This grape is capable of making fabulous wines and just a few to mention would be Grange, one of Australia's top wines and very expensive at that, and both Hermitage and Cote Rotie from France, with these being a softer style, because Syrah can be made into a huge full-bodied, fruit driven style as many of the Australian producers do.

 

If you were longing for something like the Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon, then the Ste Michelle Syrah may fit the bill, even though I believe it is a more full-bodied than the usual Cabernet Sauvignon.

 

Unfortunately I think this wine comes out at about 750 baht a bottle in Villa Market, however the occasional "once off" might satisfy your cravings!!!!

 

Just a note on Montclair and wines of that type, as it is none of my business if people like to drink that wine because after all it is about personal taste and we all differ in that regard. I have tasted a few of these and as I have posted on the original Montclair thread, I believe that the box of Berri Estates represents one of the better wines of that ilk, certainly as regards my tastebuds  – but then again others will differ, as they quite rightly should.

 

And the main complaint about Montclair was its failure to be upfront about what it actually was.........

 

I did mention a few others earlier on that you might like to try that won't break the bank and certainly the Barwang Cabernet Sauvignon at 499 baht might be worth trying.

[mgthom63]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Nice one mgthom63..........I think that poster is a Troll. He has to be in view of his posts which bear no relation to reality.e.g........

 

--"Red wine and spicy food definitely do not match!

Wrong and proven so by chefs, restaurateurs and food and wine critics.

--"The chef would be blacklisted".

Well that's a nonsense again.

--"Well all of these people answer to the producers'.

Poppycock!

-- "Probably never been to New Zealand"

A complete nonsense as I am actually a New Zealand citizen and lived there.

--"New Zealand doesn't have any spicy food".

When in fact it is full of restaurants which specialise in it. 

--'Very strange that you think Nigeria is "West Africa".

Sorry to have to inform him that Nigeria is in fact in West Africa

 

This as I mentioned that I worked in West Africa, and for some strange reason the poster has gone onto talk about French West Africa, which I never mentioned. So he is wrong again.

 

Perhaps he gets on the juice when posting, who knows? But what I and others have seen is that his posts are generally a nonsense, and as one would a Troll, best ignored

 

 

Yes xylophone, best ignored..on the juice, lonely, bored and/or just driven to show how (un)smart he is? 

Who knows?  But not worth spending a lot of time trying to understand what drives this kind of anti-social behaviour IMHO.

I come on this forum for useful information and friendly discussions; I'm open to different opinions and constructive debate, but when I come across a troll I find it's best to just ignore them.  

[SkyRider]

13 minutes ago, mgthom63 said:

Yes xylophone, best ignored..on the juice, lonely, bored and/or just driven to show how (un)smart he is? 

Who knows?  But not worth spending a lot of time trying to understand what drives this kind of anti-social behaviour IMHO.

I come on this forum for useful information and friendly discussions; I'm open to different opinions and constructive debate, but when I come across a troll I find it's best to just ignore them.  

Thanks again for the information xylophone.  

 

Yes, different opinions, we should be open to.  Friendly discussions.  And constructive debates can be great, but let's please not try to argue.  I'm learning a lot about wine in general, and wine in Thailand, from this tread.  I wouldn't want the mods to ban anyone or close this thread because of arguing.  So let's please discuss and debate, not argue.  Thank you.  

[xylophone]

52 minutes ago, SkyRider said:

Thanks again for the information xylophone.  

 

Yes, different opinions, we should be open to.  Friendly discussions.  And constructive debates can be great, but let's please not try to argue.  I'm learning a lot about wine in general, and wine in Thailand, from this tread.  I wouldn't want the mods to ban anyone or close this thread because of arguing.  So let's please discuss and debate, not argue.  Thank you.  

Surely I welcome discussion and debate, however I don't see how posting misinformation and pure nonsense can facilitate this.

 

I don't know if the mods would shut down a thread for misleading rubbish being posted, some of which is tantamount to lies, however if it is misleading to people who are seeking knowledge and information, perhaps they would – – who knows??

 

Anyway back on track, and I'm pleased that some of the information I have posted has helped you, and if you should try that Syrah (or perhaps the  Barwang CS) that I mentioned, I would be pleased to receive your feedback on it.

 

Good health and good hunting to you.

[rickudon]

Getting back to basics and the original post .... in Udon we are beginning to see some new stock appear. Montclair has been reclassified and now comes with a blue tax sticker - and a price to match (699 baht for 2 litres). There is still some old stock in the boxes with brown stickers but i presume when these are gone the price will go up as well. Seeing a few odd new brands but only in very limited quantities, some at 399 baht for 2 litres. Castle creek is now about 439 baht for 2 litres, i presume new stock, but no red as yet. Miscellaneous 3 and 4 litre boxed wines  around the 900-1,000 baht range. Peter Vella still at old price of 799 baht (old stock?), but no red. 

 

As for proper wines, all at prices that would make the UK seem cheap!  (400 baht a bottle and up).Results from Makro, Big C and Tesco, needed all three to find even that much ... still about 50% of shelves empty. I understand there is increased interest in home brewing - after all, cannot be much worse than the fruit wines!

[eezergood]

On 04/03/2018 at 12:49 PM, norrska said:

Sorry to have to tell you, but who do the chefs and restauranteurs  answer to....wait for it...... the producers!  Any chef or restauranteur who does not recommend to drink wine with a spicy dish would be blacklisted.  How many locals in India or Thailand have you ever seen drinking any wine with a spicy meal....the answer is none!  It is only the westerners! 

What total nonsense! Blacklisted by whom?

I have worked in 1,2 & #star Michelin and have been a chef for over 20 years (9 countries and almost every internationally branded Hotel chain) And I have to agree with xylophone that some wines match PERFECTLY with spicy food! 

As for India, they dont drink wine as they dont bleedin produce it!

[xylophone]

4 minutes ago, eezergood said:

What total nonsense! Blacklisted by whom?

I have worked in 1,2 & #star Michelin and have been a chef for over 20 years (9 countries and almost every internationally branded Hotel chain) And I have to agree with xylophone that some wines match PERFECTLY with spicy food! 

As for India, they dont drink wine as they dont bleedin produce it!

IMO the poster doesn't know what he is talking about eezergood and nice to get comments from a real and experienced chef. And I had to laugh about the "blacklisted" comment; another nonsense answer, along with a few others I have noted.

 

As for India, well I have drunk many a red wine with different curries, and soft and cheap Merlots from Italy were once a staple!

 

I take it from your post that you are not over enamoured with Indian wines, and neither am I, although occasionally they get a mention, but the industry's young and has a long way to go, and as you quite rightly allude to, even if they do produce it they don't produce a lot of quality stuff. Not really what one would call a "wine producing nation"! So take your point.

[SkyRider]

7 hours ago, xylophone said:

Surely I welcome discussion and debate, however I don't see how posting misinformation and pure nonsense can facilitate this.

 

I don't know if the mods would shut down a thread for misleading rubbish being posted, some of which is tantamount to lies, however if it is misleading to people who are seeking knowledge and information, perhaps they would – – who knows??

 

Anyway back on track, and I'm pleased that some of the information I have posted has helped you, and if you should try that Syrah (or perhaps the  Barwang CS) that I mentioned, I would be pleased to receive your feedback on it.

 

Good health and good hunting to you.

I'll be at Villa tomorrow, and will look for both of them.  Thanks again.  

[SkyRider]

18 minutes ago, eezergood said:

What total nonsense! Blacklisted by whom?

I have worked in 1,2 & #star Michelin and have been a chef for over 20 years (9 countries and almost every internationally branded Hotel chain) And I have to agree with xylophone that some wines match PERFECTLY with spicy food! 

As for India, they dont drink wine as they dont bleedin produce it!

I agree with xylophone on that also. For me, any good wine, matches well with spicy food.  

[mgthom63]

9 hours ago, eezergood said:

What total nonsense! Blacklisted by whom?

I have worked in 1,2 & #star Michelin and have been a chef for over 20 years (9 countries and almost every internationally branded Hotel chain) And I have to agree with xylophone that some wines match PERFECTLY with spicy food! 

As for India, they dont drink wine as they dont bleedin produce it!

How dare you say that eezergood :)

As I recall, the OP 'claimed' that he was formerly a sommelier, so he should know his stuff.

Not sure if that was before or after a presumed stint as a CIA agent or high-ranking member of the diplomatic corps in West Africa.

Regardless, l'm hoping this thread can get back to friendly and non-combative discussions about wine.

So, on that basis, what wines would you recommend with spicy food?  I'm a bit of a novice so, per my previous reply to xylophone, typically just go with off-dry Reislings...but would like to be a little bit more adventurous. 

 

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, mgthom63 said:

How dare you say that eezergood :)

As I recall, the OP 'claimed' that he was formerly a sommelier, so he should know his stuff.

Not sure if that was before or after a presumed stint as a CIA agent or high-ranking member of the diplomatic corps in West Africa.

Regardless, l'm hoping this thread can get back to friendly and non-combative discussions about wine.

So, on that basis, what wines would you recommend with spicy food?  I'm a bit of a novice so, per my previous reply to xylophone, typically just go with off-dry Reislings...but would like to be a little bit more adventurous. 

 

Will be interesting to see what eezergood says, and I did mention a few reds earlier which would suit spicy food and they were recommendations from those in the know. Generally the "soft" fruitier style of reds, no oak aging and younger wines will suit (think Beaujolais style)............and don't get your best bottle out of the cellar, esp if it is a Bordeaux, cos that will be a waste!!

 

Over to eezergood.............

[torrzent]

14 hours ago, eezergood said:

What total nonsense! Blacklisted by whom?

I have worked in 1,2 & #star Michelin and have been a chef for over 20 years (9 countries and almost every internationally branded Hotel chain) And I have to agree with xylophone that some wines match PERFECTLY with spicy food! 

As for India, they dont drink wine as they dont bleedin produce it!

Slight correction there, the major wine producing regions of India include Kashmir, Punjab, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Goa.

[eezergood]

1 minute ago, torrzent said:

Slight correction there, the major wine producing regions of India include Kashmir, Punjab, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Goa.

No correction needed, they are hardly major (if you ask 10 people on the street about Indian wine, they will look at you blank) and those produced on the whole are forgettable. I used a blanket statement because in general Indians don't consume wine in the same manner or volume per capita as per France for example

[xylophone]

As a rider to my previous post...............the "fruit wines" being discussed here and on other threads fit the bill perfectly as a match for spicy food!!

[eezergood]

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Will be interesting to see what eezergood says, and I did mention a few reds earlier which would suit spicy food and they were recommendations from those in the know. Generally the "soft" fruitier style of reds, no oak aging and younger wines will suit (think Beaujolais style)............and don't get your best bottle out of the cellar, esp if it is a Bordeaux, cos that will be a waste!!

 

Over to eezergood.............

Many reds, just off the top of me head stand out here. Most Pinot Noirs would be great, GSM (this with higher Grenache) for sure would be fantastic, all Grenache - particularly takes a chill also.

Lots not also forget the home of the humble Thai Chili - Portugal. Piri piri is indeed spicy and they produce LOTS of wine.

 

I read the OP and have seen his posts on other forums, he KNOWS his wine - far more than I do, I know taste & flavour. I also agree that Mont Clair os not wine