Mont Clair Red WIne

[indieke]

I came from the local Liquor store in Rawai. He knew all this. Goverment not believe in fruitwine any more , he said. So is taxed as alcohol.  He made me understand that all that fruitwine, was indeed a way to avoid tax. And the prices quoted above, is exactly what he pridicted. But here in Phuket these new 2 liters not appeared yet..... 

[xylophone]

7 minutes ago, indieke said:

I came from the local Liquor store in Rawai. He knew all this. Goverment not believe in fruitwine any more , he said. So is taxed as alcohol.  He made me understand that all that fruitwine, was indeed a way to avoid tax. And the prices quoted above, is exactly what he pridicted. But here in Phuket these new 2 liters not appeared yet..... 

Thanks for the update..........I and many others have always believed this Fruit Wine nonsense was a way to get around tax/duty, and the question I have often posed is, "why would anybody want to take a wine, adulterate it with fruit juice, then export it?'' as it makes no sense and could damage the "brand/image of the originating country (much now comes from Oz).

 

So exporting wine and fruit juice mixed is a way to get a retail price lower than real wines and appeal to an unsophisticated market.........and of course to sell on price.

 

Will be interesting to see the price differential when all this settles and casks/2 & 3 litre bottles appear on the shelves with new pricing.

[nanglong218]

I would like wine to become an everyman drink as it is in Europe. I drove a 40T truck around France and Spain, Swiss and Belgium, and others.    At truckstops and Relais Routiers the food is always excellent, the wine is in litre bottles or on tap. It's Vin de Pays, Vin deTable, sometimes Vin de sprinkle on chips.   You sit at refectory tables with complete strangers and talk to them in school French and mime, it's good fun.  

So while I accept everyone's wisdom on technical points - it is indeed an industry where generations of knowledge have brought it to its present standard  -   I don't want the view that it comes in a stemmed glass, swirled around and sniffed.

OK for some,   no problem,   but if this country is going to tax the hell out of all pleasures I remind myself that I live 100kms from Cambodia.

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, nanglong218 said:

.........but if this country is going to tax the hell out of all pleasures I remind myself that I live 100kms from Cambodia.

 

 

Indeed, in Siem Reap you can get Kangaroo Reserve (Shiraz/Merlot) that fits your vin de table criteria) $4 (around 120 Baht) a bottle. 

[nanglong218]

It's not the price,  it's the company

[mgthom63]

16 hours ago, eezergood said:

Many reds, just off the top of me head stand out here. Most Pinot Noirs would be great, GSM (this with higher Grenache) for sure would be fantastic, all Grenache - particularly takes a chill also.

Lots not also forget the home of the humble Thai Chili - Portugal. Piri piri is indeed spicy and they produce LOTS of wine.

 

I read the OP and have seen his posts on other forums, he KNOWS his wine - far more than I do, I know taste & flavour. I also agree that Mont Clair os not wine 

Many thanks for the recommendations.  By OP, I meant the poster who made the 'blacklisted' comment...I wasn't referring to SkyRider...apologies for my typo.

[nisakiman]

3 hours ago, nanglong218 said:

I would like wine to become an everyman drink as it is in Europe. I drove a 40T truck around France and Spain, Swiss and Belgium, and others.    At truckstops and Relais Routiers the food is always excellent, the wine is in litre bottles or on tap. It's Vin de Pays, Vin deTable, sometimes Vin de sprinkle on chips.   You sit at refectory tables with complete strangers and talk to them in school French and mime, it's good fun.  

So while I accept everyone's wisdom on technical points - it is indeed an industry where generations of knowledge have brought it to its present standard  -   I don't want the view that it comes in a stemmed glass, swirled around and sniffed.

OK for some,   no problem,   but if this country is going to tax the hell out of all pleasures I remind myself that I live 100kms from Cambodia.

 

Ah, that brings back memories. Whenever I was driving in France, I always looked for the roadside restaurants with a two acre car park. There would usually be several semis parked up already. The atmosphere was always great - hugga-mugga with the other customers on the trestle tables; large portions of good food, and an endless supply of wine. It always rather reminded me of those Viking feasts as portrayed in the movies, with everyone sitting at one or two long tables, carousing. Much talk and laughter and a haze of cigarette smoke. It was wonderful!

 

 

[Jip99]

6 hours ago, nanglong218 said:

It's not the price,  it's the company

 

 

True............... but the company has to be bl00dy good  at 2,500 Baht a bottle !

[torrzent]

7 hours ago, nanglong218 said:

At truckstops and Relais Routiers the food is always excellent, the wine is in litre bottles or on tap. It's Vin de Pays, Vin deTable, sometimes Vin de sprinkle on chips.   You sit at refectory tables with complete strangers and talk to them in school French and mime, it's good fun.

Sounds like a lot of dangerous, inebriated drivers roaming the streets/highways in trucks!

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, nanglong218 said:

I would like wine to become an everyman drink as it is in Europe. I drove a 40T truck around France and Spain, Swiss and Belgium, and others.    At truckstops and Relais Routiers the food is always excellent, the wine is in litre bottles or on tap. It's Vin de Pays, Vin deTable, sometimes Vin de sprinkle on chips.   You sit at refectory tables with complete strangers and talk to them in school French and mime, it's good fun.  

So while I accept everyone's wisdom on technical points - it is indeed an industry where generations of knowledge have brought it to its present standard  -   I don't want the view that it comes in a stemmed glass, swirled around and sniffed.

OK for some,   no problem,   but if this country is going to tax the hell out of all pleasures I remind myself that I live 100kms from Cambodia.

A lovely post with many truisms in it and although I didn't drive a truck around France, I have spent months travelling around visiting vineyards, producers and château owners, and your description of some of the wines served is brilliant.

 

I remember driving through the French countryside on the way to Poitiers and stopping at a small village in which there was a restaurant (well I suppose you could call it that) and didn't fancy much on the menu, so it was a case of cheese and some crusty bread and I did ask for some wine to accompany it.

 

Imagine my surprise when the owner put a glass container on the bar top, ducked down below the bar for a few minutes and came up with something that looked like a small bucket, then proceeded to pour the contents, which was red wine, into the glass container. That was my wine and if I recall even though it was a bit rustic, it wasn't THAT bad.

 

Whilst in the south of France I was reminded by the owner of a well respected vineyard of the times when he was a young boy and would see the workers going out into the vines accompanied by carafes of cheap and cheerful wine (mostly made from the prolific Carignan grape) and they would drink a minimum of 1 L of this stuff per day whilst doing their work............. good times.

 

Onto your last point, I really can't see why wines are taxed like they are here, because there is no need for it and if they were sold at a reasonable retail price, then sales would increase and it would be a win-win for importers and retailers alike...........but perhaps there's something we are not seeing?

[indieke]

41 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Onto your last point, I really can't see why wines are taxed like they are here, because there is no need for it and if they were sold at a reasonable retail price, then sales would increase and it would be a win-win for importers and retailers alike...........but perhaps there's something we are not seeing?

 

I agree with that 100 %.  It is absolutely outrageous. Out of proportion the tax.  One of my favorite things in the world is to drink a good glass of wine. Good, very good wine, not snobbish premiums, cost around 400 bht in France (even imported from New world).  For 150 bht, I got a nice made wine without pretention. I can drink a bottle a day with my partner, and not be ruined.  In Thailand, for 400 bht, cannot fibd anything then mostly bad table wine? 800 bht gives me often an average wine, that not cost 300 bht without taxes. 

 

Wine is no sin, it is also culture. This heavy taxation is not paying more, it is at the end not having a decent glass or bottle at all. We were obliged to drink average "fruit wine", what ever this could be. Now we cannot drink wine and have to stick to beer, or their unhealthy local Whiskey?  Is it fun to spend several months like I do, and not zip a nice wine on regularly basis? 

 

I now still buy 2 bottles a wine a week. But I am forced to even stop that, because I had even at 800 Bht +, average wine.  If wine would be taxed, at 20 % as in most European countries, I would buy a bottle every day, the profit of the wine shop, be the same, but he will sell much, much more, and the income for the state, would maybe not be less, but more.

 

The way of thinking, like with smokers, is that they will buy it anyway. Well that is a mistake, even a wine lover like myself, is forced to wait to drink his little treasures until home again. I come now almost 4 months a year, my frustration is bigger, so I not will stay longer, or come to live here, if they not allow me to have pleasures in my life, I choose to have.

[AlGoRhythm]

It took some time, but finally someone came to the essential point.  For many, drinking wine with a meal is cultural, not meant for a special occasion.  I drink wine at dinner almost every evening when I am in a country that does not penalise me for it – meaning just about everywhere I live, work or visit - apart from Thailand and Indonesia.  Posts speaking of enjoying better wines are fun to read, but that is another, largely unrelated topic.  Also posts suggesting one should drink less but better miss the point.  Unhappily, Thailand is not a country that allows one that basic pleasure of having a common, inexpensive table wine as a regular part of the meal.  So far I’ve not heard a convincing reason why this continues to be the case, especially as the country evolves with more and more people with the interest and means to move beyond beer and Thai “whiskey”.

[SkyRider]

17 hours ago, nanglong218 said:

 

I'm getting confused about Kangaroo wine / reserve.  Is this from the same producers as Yellow Tail?

 

I already posted that Yellow Tail - Cabernet Shiraz, is very delicious, and a low priced wine. 

They have a reserve?  If they do, that must taste great!  

[SkyRider]

18 minutes ago, SkyRider said:

I'm getting confused about Kangaroo wine / reserve.  Is this from the same producers as Yellow Tail?

 

I already posted that Yellow Tail - Cabernet Shiraz, is very delicious, and a low priced wine. 

They have a reserve?  If they do, that must taste great!  

Just googled it.  I've been away from good wine for too long. I remember the Yellow tail, Cabernet, Shiraz, Grenache now, delicious!  But a reserve - this must taste, out of this world!  Can I even get, a Yellow Tail, Cabernet Shiraz in Thailand?  

Edited March 10, 2018 by SkyRider

[SkyRider]

3 minutes ago, SkyRider said:

Just googled it.  I've been away from good wine for too long. I remember the Yellow tail, Cabernet, Shiraz, Grenache now, delicious!  But a reserve - this must taste, out of this world!  Can I even get, a Yellow Tail, Cabernet Shiraz in Thailand?  

Sorry, I don't know why the pic I posted, is covering up my message - tried to edit it, but can't. 

[InMyShadow]

14 hours ago, nisakiman said:

 

Ah, that brings back memories. Whenever I was driving in France, I always looked for the roadside restaurants with a two acre car park. There would usually be several semis parked up already. The atmosphere was always great - hugga-mugga with the other customers on the trestle tables; large portions of good food, and an endless supply of wine. It always rather reminded me of those Viking feasts as portrayed in the movies, with everyone sitting at one or two long tables, carousing. Much talk and laughter and a haze of cigarette smoke. It was wonderful!

 

 

A bit off topic but do they not have cops n random stops in France? drinking like a viking i love but the driving not anymore..

[nanglong218]

5 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

A bit off topic but do they not have cops n random stops in France? drinking like a viking i love but the driving not anymore..

Yes mate, mid 90s,  eight miles a minute, breaking all the rules that would bend, they were the days,never again.

[InMyShadow]

4 minutes ago, nanglong218 said:

Yes mate, mid 90s,  eight miles a minute, breaking all the rules that would bend, they were the days,never again.

Yeah The sales companies I worked for in OZ back then would throw on endless beer and spirits for staff on friday nights and then you would drive the their company car to town to party some more and drive home. Those were the days lol

[nanglong218]

25 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

Yeah The sales companies I worked for in OZ back then would throw on endless beer and spirits for staff on friday nights and then you would drive the their company car to town to party some more and drive home. Those were the days lol

Well it's double zero now,  another world, rightly so.  Repeat, rightly so.

But it's the wild west edge that attracts you to this place.  Discuss.

[nisakiman]

5 hours ago, InMyShadow said:

A bit off topic but do they not have cops n random stops in France? drinking like a viking i love but the driving not anymore..

That would normally be in the evening, and you'd stagger out of the restaurant to your vehicle (with bed inside) and crash for the night.

[xylophone]

18 hours ago, SkyRider said:

Just googled it.  I've been away from good wine for too long. I remember the Yellow tail, Cabernet, Shiraz, Grenache now, delicious!  But a reserve - this must taste, out of this world!  Can I even get, a Yellow Tail, Cabernet Shiraz in Thailand?  

Sorry to disappoint you SkyRider, but I don't believe this wine has anything to do with the Yellowtail range and from what little information I could find online, it sells very cheaply and a couple of tasting reviews have said that it's an "okay wine/table wine".

 

It also comes from the south-eastern Australia region which is famous for producing vast quantities of wines for everyday drinking, and some can be good value for money and just a touch above the ordinary (several other similar wines on sale here) whereas others are not.

 

This could be disappointment number two, because the word "Reserve" these days doesn't mean a lot outside of wines produced in the likes of Spain and Italy (and possibly South America), where that word was used to determine the better quality wines sourced from premium vineyards, or that had usually been kept apart from the normal production because of their quality, or kept longer to mature.

 

A point in question would be the La Grange Reserve that I sourced a week or so ago from Big C, only to find on the small print at the back it was labelled as "aromatised alcoholic beverage" – – having either alcohol or fruits or something added to it. Anyway it would have been great for taking the rust off my motorbike or possibly sprinkling on chips as it was just about bearable, but not so the next day.

 

Don't know about Yellowtail Cabernet/Shiraz in Thailand, although I think I have seen it about at one time or another, however there are other blends like this, just as good at around the 500 baht plus range.

[xylophone]

On 06/03/2018 at 6:19 PM, SkyRider said:

At least it will make me search for some better deals, and even though I'll have to spend more, at least I'll get some more variety. 

Some red wines to look out for, and at "reasonable" prices. All IMO better than Montclair, with the Tesco Vineyards range marginally so...........

 

From Tesco Lotus stores:

Tesco Vineyards. World of Wines..........Cab Sauv, Merlot, Shiraz at 349 baht pb.

Lighter fruity style and a good match for just about anything, esp Italian and spicy food.

 

Hardys Bin 53.........a blend I believe and priced at under 400 baht.

 

From Big C stores:

Barwang The Wall range...........Cab Sauv, Shiraz at 499 baht pb.

An example of a wine that is just a cut above the cheaper Aussie wines, showing good fruit and grape typicity . This from the NSW part of the Riverina.

 

McGuigan Black Label.........I believe this is their low end offering and newly priced at 399 baht pb. 

 

Wines available from smaller wine shops: All under 500 b and lower where stated:

 

Taras range...............nicely made wine with some oak (oak chips/staves I would suspect) at under 500 baht.

 

Butterfly Ridge;

 

The Lyrup (under 400 b);

 

Hopes End.......a great wine at 500 b and down to 440 b. Would be a good value wine at 600 b;

 

Chilcas Chilean range:

 

Viu Manent (Chile).... Cab Sauv, Shiraz and Carmenere (for something a little different).

 

3 Medals (Chile)

 

Inspired Company...... Cab Sauv, Merlot

 

Bardolino (Italy)

 

Gossips......range, but be careful because the cheaper wine "Rumours" from the same stable does include "Fruit Wine"

 

And for sheer cheek/deceptiveness I saw an Italian wine, cheaply priced, and on the back label were the words "Fruity wine"............now wine with fruit juice added has to have the words "Fruit Wine" on the label, so perhaps trying to deceive?? 

Edited March 21, 2018 by xylophone

[topt]

9 hours ago, xylophone said:

Taras range...............nicely made wine with some oak (oak chips/staves I would suspect) at under 500 baht.

Unfortunately you would be doing well to find this under 500 baht in Pattaya  (although still under 600 )

I have enjoyed many a bottle of the Cabernet Sauvignon, the Shiraz and even the Chardonnay in the past.

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, topt said:

Unfortunately you would be doing well to find this under 500 baht in Pattaya  (although still under 600 )

I have enjoyed many a bottle of the Cabernet Sauvignon, the Shiraz and even the Chardonnay in the past.

Shame that topt cos IMO it is a well made wine for the price!

 

I've always been told that Patts was a lot cheaper than Patong, but maybe not so on wine. Having said that there are price differences here between wine bought at the likes of Big C, Tescos etc and smaller wine shops...........Taras being an example. and one called Hopes End (a good well made Aussie wine) which sells at 519 baht in Villa Market but which I buy at between 440 and 460 baht elsewhere.

 

Now that is a wine I really recommend.........a blend of Shiraz, Grenache, Malbec and Petit Verdot and IMO the best of the bunch here up until the 750 b plus price point.

[xylophone]

20 hours ago, topt said:

Unfortunately you would be doing well to find this under 500 baht in Pattaya  (although still under 600 )

I have enjoyed many a bottle of the Cabernet Sauvignon, the Shiraz and even the Chardonnay in the past.

Seek this one out topt, at between 440/460 to 520 baht and it is a beauty!

Edited March 22, 2018 by xylophone

[SkyRider]

On 3/21/2018 at 11:06 AM, xylophone said:

Some red wines to look out for, and at "reasonable" prices. All IMO better than Montclair, with the Tesco Vineyards range marginally so...........

 

From Tesco Lotus stores:

Tesco Vineyards. World of Wines..........Cab Sauv, Merlot, Shiraz at 349 baht pb.

Lighter fruity style and a good match for just about anything, esp Italian and spicy food.

 

Hardys Bin 53.........a blend I believe and priced at under 400 baht.

 

From Big C stores:

Barwang The Wall range...........Cab Sauv, Shiraz at 499 baht pb.

An example of a wine that is just a cut above the cheaper Aussie wines, showing good fruit and grape typicity . This from the NSW part of the Riverina.

 

McGuigan Black Label.........I believe this is their low end offering and newly priced at 399 baht pb. 

 

Wines available from smaller wine shops: All under 500 b and lower where stated:

 

Taras range...............nicely made wine with some oak (oak chips/staves I would suspect) at under 500 baht.

 

Butterfly Ridge;

 

The Lyrup (under 400 b);

 

Hopes End.......a great wine at 500 b and down to 440 b. Would be a good value wine at 600 b;

 

Chilcas Chilean range:

 

Viu Manent (Chile).... Cab Sauv, Shiraz and Carmenere (for something a little different).

 

3 Medals (Chile)

 

Inspired Company...... Cab Sauv, Merlot

 

Bardolino (Italy)

 

Gossips......range, but be careful because the cheaper wine "Rumours" from the same stable does include "Fruit Wine"

 

And for sheer cheek/deceptiveness I saw an Italian wine, cheaply priced, and on the back label were the words "Fruity wine"............now wine with fruit juice added has to have the words "Fruit Wine" on the label, so perhaps trying to deceive?? 

WOW! Thank you so much for the very detailed information Xylophone. 

 

I tried a box of Gossips fruit wine 5 years ago, it was absolutely horrible.

 

I haven't been able to get to Villa, to try your recommendations - even if I could, it would be between 2:00 and 5:00 pm, and I wouldn't have been able to buy anyway (annoying!).

 

At Foodland today, I saw 3 bottles which I think might be worth trying. 

 

Hardys, Verietal Range, 2013 Cabernet Sauvignon, 2015, 549 baht (I might be wrong, but I think I may have tried this years ago, and didn't like it at all.)

 

Merlot Nero D'Avola, Terre Siciliane, 2015, 555 baht.

 

Angove, Long Row, Cabernet Sauvignon, 2014, 499 baht. 

 

(I have pics of the bottles, front and back, if anyone would like me to post them, just let me know).  

 

Since my last box of Mont Clair is almost finished, and I can't find it stocked anywhere, anymore - I bought a Yellow Tail, Cabernet Sauvignon, 2016, 599 baht - at Foodland today.  (Wish they had the Yellow Tail, Cabernet Shiraz, that's delicious.)

Drinking the Yellow Tail Cab now, and what a difference compared to Mont Clair!  No turning back now...  

 

 

 

 

 

[xylophone]

39 minutes ago, SkyRider said:

I tried a box of Gossips fruit wine 5 years ago, it was absolutely horrible.

Yes I believe they do make a fruit wine version............bloody confusing isn't it!

 

Have also tried the Hardy's Varietal range and considered it/them to be a sweetish poor example, but some folks may like it........and tried the Angoves Long Row and ok, though on these types of wine I try to look for the "younger" dates as they are not made to drink past a couple (or so) years of bottling.........esp here where the high temps age wine faster.

 

Look for the Hopes End wine, above your post, my favourite wine at the moment and can be found for well under 500b if u r lucky and very lovely IMO.

[SkyRider]

On 3/22/2018 at 8:09 PM, xylophone said:

Yes I believe they do make a fruit wine version............bloody confusing isn't it!

 

Have also tried the Hardy's Varietal range and considered it/them to be a sweetish poor example, but some folks may like it........and tried the Angoves Long Row and ok, though on these types of wine I try to look for the "younger" dates as they are not made to drink past a couple (or so) years of bottling.........esp here where the high temps age wine faster.

 

Look for the Hopes End wine, above your post, my favourite wine at the moment and can be found for well under 500b if u r lucky and very lovely IMO.

I was wondering about that, the "younger" dates, and the heat here.  And the heat here, regarding all wine.

 

I saw McGugan Black Label, I'll try that.

 

Also saw a Knight Black House Cab, only 299, and I think it said brewed in Thailand on it, so maybe it's not any good.

 

I bought the Angove, haven't tried it yet. 

 

And I'll definitely look for Hopes End .

 

 

 

 

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, SkyRider said:

I was wondering about that, the "younger" dates, and the heat here.  And the heat here, regarding all wine.

 

I saw McGugan Black Label, I'll try that.

 

Also saw a Knight Black House Cab, only 299, and I think it said brewed in Thailand on it, so maybe it's not any good.

 

I bought the Angove, haven't tried it yet. 

 

And I'll definitely look for Hopes End .

 

 

 

 

Heat does affect all wine as does the variance in temperature, as in general it ages it. Not only that it can play havoc with the cork (if it has one!).

 

The McGuigans is now back up to 499 baht (mispriced) so IMO the others are better buys, but try it as you'll never know otherwise.

 

The Knight Black Horse Cab (as I recall) seems to be made here from imported grape juice........very light style and not for me. 

 

And Hopes End is the stand-out one for me esp if you can get it for under 500b.

[SkyRider]

7 hours ago, xylophone said:

Heat does affect all wine as does the variance in temperature, as in general it ages it. Not only that it can play havoc with the cork (if it has one!).

 

The McGuigans is now back up to 499 baht (mispriced) so IMO the others are better buys, but try it as you'll never know otherwise.

 

The Knight Black Horse Cab (as I recall) seems to be made here from imported grape juice........very light style and not for me. 

 

And Hopes End is the stand-out one for me esp if you can get it for under 500b.

I thought the Angove was nothing special at all, at 500 baht, I sure won't by that again.

 

I need to find that Hopes End.

 

I'm taking your suggestions, I bought the Hardy's and the World of Wines Cab - haven't tried them yet. 

 

I saw McGuigans, and yes, it was 499 baht, it also said medium bodied, but I like full bodied, so I passed on it this time - maybe I'll try it later.

Questions; there was a McGuigans red and a merlot. Are you speaking about the red?

And, the back of the merlot had a sticker on it in Thai, it covered up what the winemaker had to say about their wine, so I couldn't even read it!  

 

There was also a wine from Chile, Vina Maipo, classic Series, syrah / cab, that had a a Thai sticker on the back covering up the description, that said, something like; "Don't sell to under 20, don't drink and drive." 

 

Have you ever tried a wine from Chile, Los Tilos Cab?