Grouse Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, aright said: From your perspective why do MP's keep getting it so wrong then as evidenced by them overwhelmingly endorsing Article 50. At the moment it would appear the only people trying to change things from inside the tent are extreme right wing parties. What party do you belong to? Have to go ,I haven't finished my best man speech yet. Because many are balancing the wishes of many of constituents against what the actually believe. Look at the body language. I don't belong to any party. I feel quite disenfranchised. I like Vince but the Lib Dems really screwed up over student fees Edited May 19, 2018 by Grouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Grouse said: Because many are balancing the wishes of many of constituents against what the actually believe. Look at the body language. Then they are doing the right thing aren't they. Their job description requires them to represent their constituents not their conscience .When you vote how can you determine a person's conscience? Apart from the significant attempts to change things inside the tent by extreme right wingers can you name me a middle of the road political party or movement advocating significant changes.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-eu-tells-theresa-may-her-brexit-border-plan-isnt-enough-to-secure-a-deal-2018-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Renegade Posted May 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, tebee said: http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-eu-tells-theresa-may-her-brexit-border-plan-isnt-enough-to-secure-a-deal-2018-5 You can post these stories to doomsday, the reasons are so obvious that even the most challenged individuals should be starting to get the message by now. Nothing is good enough for the EU for the UK to secure a deal. The only deal that the EU is interested is in keeping the UK under the control of Brussels, the ECJ and to keep the ££££££'s flowing to Brussels. 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivor bigun Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Gosh 671 pages on brexit and we are still leaving the EU. but i am sure the remainers will still be throwing their toys out of the pram for years to comeSent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 1 minute ago, ivor bigun said: Gosh 671 pages on brexit and we are still leaving the EU. but i am sure the remainers will still be throwing their toys out of the pram for years to come Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app any idea when ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, soalbundy said: any idea when ? and how? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagateddy Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Probably a NO DEAL scenario???Just wonder what all the brussels jobsworths would do??Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 8 hours ago, tebee said: British politics is broken. While I think that stopping Brexit will not itself fix these politics in the short-term, ploughing on with it will embed its current broken form as the new normal in the medium-to-long term. Continuing with it gives the simple message to current and future voters and politicians that lies win, and can be deployed with impunity, conventions are meaningless, the constitution is weak, opponents need not be respected, and that the interests of the country are secondary to political whim. It also tells that the vilification of judges, civil servants, diplomats, foreigners, and even swathes of the population is acceptable, and, worse, a winning political strategy. In short, it says that the con-artists won, will continue to win, and there’s nothing anybody can do about it. They’re in charge now. So, yes, a new referendum will create its own problems and reopen divisions, but it may at least put us in a position where we are able to start dealing with the UK’s problems, rather than embedding them further. It also seems apparent now that whatever form of Brexit is chosen will not bring healing stability. An EEA-like Brexit will anger the Ultras, allow them to blame all ills on Brexit not being done ‘properly’, and bring constant calls to withdraw from the arrangement. A hard Brexit will ruin the Good Friday Agreement, and bring economic harm that will make poverty, inequality and exclusion even worse, and tackling it nigh on impossible. So a new referendum won’t be pretty, but the alternative is much worse still. What country constituent are you going to represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ivor bigun Posted May 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2018 any idea when ?Who cares we are leavingSent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 36 minutes ago, malagateddy said: Probably a NO DEAL scenario??? Just wonder what all the brussels jobsworths would do?? Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Whitehall, lots of new laws and a customs debacle to sort out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, ivor bigun said: Who cares we are leaving Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app It has been said so apparently, let us wait until the goose is cooked before we carve it up, in the end we may be dealing with a half cooked goose. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 1 hour ago, aright said: Then they are doing the right thing aren't they. Their job description requires them to represent their constituents not their conscience .When you vote how can you determine a person's conscience? Apart from the significant attempts to change things inside the tent by extreme right wingers can you name me a middle of the road political party or movement advocating significant changes.? Yet again, you are totally incorrect. That is NOThow representative democracy works. Please look it up if you don't believe me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, malagateddy said: Probably a NO DEAL scenario??? Just wonder what all the brussels jobsworths would do?? Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Nothing But wait for the sucking noise as the Japanese and American manufacturers disappear into the EU together with most of The City. Edited May 19, 2018 by Grouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Grouse said: Yet again, you are totally incorrect. That is NOThow representative democracy works. Please look it up if you don't believe me. I can give you two definitions This from https://www.parliament.uk/ The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. MPs consider and can propose new laws as well as raising issues that matter to you in the House. This includes asking government ministers questions about current issues including those which affect local constituents. This from wiki Representative democracy (also indirect democracy, representative republic or psephocracy) is a type of democracy founded on the principle of elected officials representing a group of people. I can't find a tie up with conscience, where is your link? That only leaves which middle of the road party is working inside the tent to change things? Are you watching the Royal wedding ..it's a treat. If only we could run Brexit with the same efficiency. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post darren1971 Posted May 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2018 Brexit will never happen anyway, so this thread is pointless. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 3 hours ago, aright said: The truth is more important than the facts...…….. Frank Lloyd Wright Unfortunately truth is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. TM thought it was true that she could circumvent parliament, how did that pan out. If MP's would stick to the facts then we would all be a lot better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, sandyf said: Unfortunately truth is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. TM thought it was true that she could circumvent parliament, how did that pan out. If MP's would stick to the facts then we would all be a lot better off. Desperate times calls for deseprate measures, and TM has just appointed a terrorist supporter (and man of God, apparently) to the Lords specifically to circumvent parliament. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 49 minutes ago, aright said: I can give you two definitions This from https://www.parliament.uk/ The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. MPs consider and can propose new laws as well as raising issues that matter to you in the House. This includes asking government ministers questions about current issues including those which affect local constituents. This from wiki Representative democracy (also indirect democracy, representative republic or psephocracy) is a type of democracy founded on the principle of elected officials representing a group of people. I can't find a tie up with conscience, where is your link? That only leaves which middle of the road party is working inside the tent to change things? Are you watching the Royal wedding ..it's a treat. If only we could run Brexit with the same efficiency. did you cry and wave a flag ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 48 minutes ago, aright said: I can give you two definitions This from https://www.parliament.uk/ The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. MPs consider and can propose new laws as well as raising issues that matter to you in the House. This includes asking government ministers questions about current issues including those which affect local constituents. This from wiki Representative democracy (also indirect democracy, representative republic or psephocracy) is a type of democracy founded on the principle of elected officials representing a group of people. I can't find a tie up with conscience, where is your link? That only leaves which middle of the road party is working inside the tent to change things? Are you watching the Royal wedding ..it's a treat. If only we could run Brexit with the same efficiency. I am sir! What a treat! The trumpets! The Rolls The outfits Many things wrong with the UK but we do this kind of thing better than anyone! By miles! Sod the EU Gimme another dringgg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 2 hours ago, RuamRudy said: and how? And if it does leave, will it really it leave ? Or stay in the SM and CU anyway 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 “Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, soalbundy said: did you cry and wave a flag ? I didn't have a flag 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Grouse said: I am sir! What a treat! The trumpets! The Rolls The outfits Many things wrong with the UK but we do this kind of thing better than anyone! By miles! Sod the EU Gimme another dringgg was there no punch up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 1 minute ago, soalbundy said: did you cry and wave a flag ? I didn't wave a flag I waved the flag but I leave the crying to the Remainers who haven't got over the results of the referendum. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, aright said: I can give you two definitions This from https://www.parliament.uk/ The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. MPs consider and can propose new laws as well as raising issues that matter to you in the House. This includes asking government ministers questions about current issues including those which affect local constituents. This from wiki Representative democracy (also indirect democracy, representative republic or psephocracy) is a type of democracy founded on the principle of elected officials representing a group of people. I can't find a tie up with conscience, where is your link? That only leaves which middle of the road party is working inside the tent to change things? Are you watching the Royal wedding ..it's a treat. If only we could run Brexit with the same efficiency. Here's one https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-does-a-british-mp-actually-do-41045 and this is the famous one http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch13s7.html Edited May 19, 2018 by Grouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, soalbundy said: was there no punch up ? I think Phil might have been tempted to throw a punch had the rest of the Clampetts been invited. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, aright said: I didn't wave a flag I waved the flag but I leave the crying to the Remainers who haven't got over the results of the referendum. The flag, the blue one with stars on right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aright Posted May 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, soalbundy said: The flag, the blue one with stars on right? Why would I fly the Honduras flag? 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 45 minutes ago, sandyf said: Unfortunately truth is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. TM thought it was true that she could circumvent parliament, how did that pan out. If MP's would stick to the facts then we would all be a lot better off. No it's not, truth is an absolute value ; its like pregnancy, you are either pregnant or not pregnant you cant be a little bit pregnant. Facts are sometimes coloured by the personalities of the people presenting them. “There are no facts, only interpretations.” ……………..― Friedrich Nietzsche 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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