6 hours ago, Grouse said:

That's the whole point, these adaptive controls delivered the power when required NOT when idling in traffic. The fact that this enabled them to pass the poorly designed emission tests is beside the point. Emissions tests COULD have been specified to be measured on a rolling road at 6000 RPM for example

No, the whole point is they produced a car designed to circumvent prescribed environmental standards. Engineers were complicit and producing a marvellous piece of engineering iyo, which failed specifications, only had negative value....ask the shareholders. 

The goal of science and engineering is to produce better mouse traps.The goal of nature is to produce better mice.........a bit off topic but from .A Tordoff, my mentor many, many years ago.

If we let engineers loose we will end up with a world controlled by halflings. 

15 hours ago, nauseus said:

All inefficient and costly with minimal CO2 reduction.

 

I'd love to see the carbon footprint from all those EU parliament moves and unshared private jets. 

 

Blots on landscapes. Slag heaps in fields. What a beautiful environment.

 

You of course can back up your statement on 'inefficiency' with some data?

I too would love to see the carbon footprint of EU parliament moves and the data on private jets. 

 

EU environmental legislation gives citizens the right to challenge issues they feel are degrading their environment - So once again you make statements without backing up with data. 

 

1 hour ago, aright said:

No, the whole point is they produced a car designed to circumvent prescribed environmental standards. Engineers were complicit and producing a marvellous piece of engineering iyo, which failed specifications, only had negative value....ask the shareholders. 

The goal of science and engineering is to produce better mouse traps.The goal of nature is to produce better mice.........a bit off topic but from .A Tordoff, my mentor many, many years ago.

If we let engineers loose we will end up with a world controlled by halflings. 

And when these companies where caught cheating on the emissions measurements they faced prosecution and severe financial penalties. 

Meanwhile legislation has forced positive change in vehicle designs, we need only compare the fuel efficiency of vehicles built to EU standards to those built to US standards to see the impact of the legislation. 

2 hours ago, aright said:

No, the whole point is they produced a car designed to circumvent prescribed environmental standards. Engineers were complicit and producing a marvellous piece of engineering iyo, which failed specifications, only had negative value....ask the shareholders. 

The goal of science and engineering is to produce better mouse traps.The goal of nature is to produce better mice.........a bit off topic but from .A Tordoff, my mentor many, many years ago.

If we let engineers loose we will end up with a world controlled by halflings. 

Machines controlling anything would be safer than the irrational human.

 

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You of course can back up your statement on 'inefficiency' with some data?

I too would love to see the carbon footprint of EU parliament moves and the data on private jets. 

 

EU environmental legislation gives citizens the right to challenge issues they feel are degrading their environment - So once again you make statements without backing up with data. 

 

You didn't respond to this so I'll put it up again. 

 

http://www.dw.com/en/europes-shocking-failure-to-act-on-climate/a-41905403

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You didn't respond to this so I'll put it up again. 

 

http://www.dw.com/en/europes-shocking-failure-to-act-on-climate/a-41905403

What's to answer?

 

EU sets ambitious targets, struggles to meet these targets, but is still leading the world in increasing energy efficiency. 

 

https://aceee.org/portal/national-policy/international-scorecard

 

Come back with evidence of your own claims.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And when these companies where caught cheating on the emissions measurements they faced prosecution and severe financial penalties. 

Meanwhile legislation has forced positive change in vehicle designs, we need only compare the fuel efficiency of vehicles built to EU standards to those built to US standards to see the impact of the legislation. 

It's not sufficient Volkswagen were caught and punished. Their actions demonstrated lack of strength of character and integrity which I'm sure resulted in reduced sales short term. From memory I think there was a mass cancelling of orders at the time.

3 minutes ago, aright said:

It's not sufficient Volkswagen were caught and punished. Their actions demonstrated lack of strength of character and integrity which I'm sure resulted in reduced sales short term. From memory I think there was a mass cancelling of orders at the time.

'Lack of strength of character'.

 

You're having a laugh.

 

The actions of Volkswagen are a clear example of why we need a strong regulatory framework backed by legal penalties to curb the excesses of corporations. Similar arguments can be made for the banks. 

 

But what do we hear from the Tory Government and the leaders of Brexit? - an eagerness to remove regulations on worker rights, the environment, over the banks and financial industry.

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

'Lack of strength of character'.

 

You're having a laugh.

 

The actions of Volkswagen are a clear example of why we need a strong regulatory framework backed by legal penalties to curb the excesses of corporations. Similar arguments can be made for the banks. 

 

But what do we hear from the Tory Government and the leaders of Brexit? - an eagerness to remove regulations on worker rights, the environment, over the banks and financial industry.

You should back  up those claims.

Conning or duping someone is an art and it relies on a couple of very strong traits in human nature.

 

Firstly you convince the mark that your idea will bring the some quick and noticeable advantage.

“something for nothing” even.

 

Secondly the mark must OFFER his money, support or whatever it is you are after - it needs to be OFFERED not asked for.

Thirdly the mark mustn’t realise  the he has been conned...the longer he can be duped the better.... BUT their is another trait of human behavior that helps here - people are extremely RELUCTANT to admit they have been conned and may continue to support the perpetrator long after the  scam has become clear to others - explaining awy problems as “just a hiccough” or caused by “outside influences”

 

Often a conman presents himself as the underdog and the legal establishment as out to get him...... this helps the mark to overlook some glaring incongruities in his proposal.

 

..and that is the problem that Brexiteers have. Easily persuaded by what isn’t even a particularly convincing “silver tongue” and a little slight of hqnd their perspective is gradually manipulated and changed to the conman’s benefit........thus

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/06/facebook-suspends-aggregate-iq-cambridge-analytica-vote-leave-brexit?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=270442&subid=11137&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

 

...but they really can’t bring themselves to admit it....things just go from bad to worse and as every Brexiteer knows - “things have to get worse before they get better”

 

Eventually they will be confronted with their grandchildren asking 

“Granddad” didn’t YOU vote leave back then?” - what will YOU say?

 

“I was conned!”? it make take years to build up the courage or just slowly let it dawn on you.

 

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

You should back  up those claims.

Oh so you've latched onto the idea that statements should be backed by evidence. I look forward to an end of your own unsubstantiated comments. 

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh so you've latched onto the idea that statements should be backed by evidence. I look forward to an end of your own unsubstantiated comments. 

 

I've attached plenty of attachments to demonstrate my points. You have added just a few.

You duck and dive, keen to shift subjects, hoping that others will forget what you have said.

You follow the same devious method, many times ending up contradicting yourself.  

 

Below is an example:

= = =

First you said:

22 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

1. The EU carbon emission targets are no unachievable.

 

Then you said:

  50 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You didn't respond to this so I'll put it up again. 

 

http://www.dw.com/en/europes-shocking-failure-to-act-on-climate/a-41905403

What's to answer?

 

EU sets ambitious targets, struggles to meet these targets, but is still leading the world in increasing energy efficiency. 

 

https://aceee.org/portal/national-policy/international-scorecard

 

Come back with evidence of your own claims.

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I've attached plenty of attachments to demonstrate my points. You have added just a few.

You duck and dive, keen to shift subjects, hoping that others will forget what you have said.

You follow the same devious method, many times ending up contradicting yourself.  

 

Below is an example:

= = =

First you said:

22 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

1. The EU carbon emission targets are no unachievable.

 

Then you said:

  50 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You didn't respond to this so I'll put it up again. 

 

http://www.dw.com/en/europes-shocking-failure-to-act-on-climate/a-41905403

What's to answer?

 

EU sets ambitious targets, struggles to meet these targets, but is still leading the world in increasing energy efficiency. 

 

https://aceee.org/portal/national-policy/international-scorecard

 

Come back with evidence of your own claims.

Nauseus, if you are going to quote me can you first instance provide the full text of what I said, not cutting out single lines to avoid context and secondly can you learn how to use the quote function so that you don't give us mush like above.

22 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

1. The EU carbon emission targets are no unachievable. 

 

2. Windfarms are not directed as an EU policies, they are a means of harvesting renewable energy that is efficient. Most of the coal burning power stations have been taken out of service and are now replaced by small combined cycle gas turbine driven generation units, these are taken in and out of service as demand arises/falls. Britain's use of fossil fuels is falling in direct replacement by renewables (of which wind is a significant part).

 

3. Bio energy is not mandated by EU energy policies. Yes bio fuel uses energy to produce and it takes land out of food production use. But a) Bio fuel provides more energy than is used in its production b.) The UN Food and Agriculture Organisation estimates global food wastage at 13billion tons per year. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/02/no-time-leftovers-astonishing-scale-food-waste-uk-around-world/

 

4. My family background is farming. British farmers have been ploughing sewage into farmland for decades, if not for more than a century.

 

Here's some examples of the EU improving the environment:

 

*EU directives require Environmental Assessments for almost all development projects, housing, the signing of factories, industrial process, airports, roads etc. EU directives give 'concerned citizens' and 'concerned organisation' rights to be informed, consulted and a right to object to any development. EU directives place a duty on individual national governments to ensure the concerns of 'concerned citizens' and 'concerned organisations' are recorded and addressed. EU directives place a duty on individual governments to enshrine these rights in law and to provide 'concerned citizens' and 'concerned organisations' with a right to present their case before binding legal challenge in courts of law. 

These rights and duties are frequently used by local communities to protect their own environment.

 

*EU environmental directives place a duty on nation states within the union to conduct environmental impact analysis of projects within their own national boundary where the environmental impact may extend across their own national boundary. These directives place a duty on nation states to advise, consult, record and address concerns ... provide rights to legal challenges etc etc to any EU nation impacted by the project (in the same way as local communities are provided rights, nation states are provided rights), the EU commission and the EU courts arbitrate disputes where a project in an EU member nation impacts another EU member nation or any shared international spaces. 

These rights and duties are frequently used by EU nation states to protect their own environment (Hinkley B is an example of where this has been applied).

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What's to answer?

 

EU sets ambitious targets, struggles to meet these targets, but is still leading the world in increasing energy efficiency. 

 

https://aceee.org/portal/national-policy/international-scorecard

 

Come back with evidence of your own claims.

 

 

There you go.

20 hours ago, Grouse said:

It's a great part of the world. I lived at Cullodon Moor! The Speyroc bungalow was bought cash with money from the jackets. I don't think any women worked there. Full of hairyarsed Glaswegian fitters and welders. We had a strike and me and fitter went up into the hills in my Landrover Series 2A and blagged a sheep; Tough as old mutton ?. Inverness taught me to splash some lemonade in my dram of Grouse. Never got over that!

Yes, back in the day, there was always a jug of water, a soda siphon and a bottle of lemonade on the bar for customers to help themselves, how times have changed. It may not be very long before the dram goes the same way.

The EU has been instrumental in protecting geographical products but the Americans don't like the idea. These global trading options appear to be evaporating quite rapidly and the brexiteer's eyes are firmly focused on the US to try and justify their stance. Any deal with the US can only be a bad deal and casualties could be a lot more than Cornish pasties and Cumberland sausages.

 

"The document also confirms that the US will effectively push to allow American-produced Cornish pasties or Cumberland sausages by scrapping EU rules around the geographical origins of certain foods. "

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-us-trade-deal-uk-wish-list-representative-negotiations-chlorine-washed-chicken-tariffs-a8292006.html

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nauseus, if you are going to quote me can you first instance provide the full text of what I said, not cutting out single lines to avoid context and secondly can you learn how to use the quote function so that you don't give us mush like above.

See my recent post Mr. Mush.

46 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

'Lack of strength of character'.

But what do we hear from the Tory Government and the leaders of Brexit? - an eagerness to remove regulations on worker rights, the environment, over the banks and financial industry.

What did we hear from the last Labour Government
They removed regulations from the banks - regulations that had been put in place to prevent a crash. Then guess what happened................

The Conservative Government sorted it and you claim they want to reduce regulations.

2010-2015 government policy: bank regulation

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2010-to-2015-government-policy-bank-regulation/2010-to-2015-government-policy-bank-regulation      updated 8 May 2015Updated 8 May 2015

We have introduced the biggest reforms to the banking sector in a generation: to make banks more resilient to shocks, easier to fix when they get into difficulties, and to reduce the severity of future financial crises.

We want to make sure that when banks make losses, retail customers aren’t excessively affected and taxpayers’ money isn’t used to bail banks out.

 Built an economy based on debt and ignored Conservative warnings 
 Showed faith in Icelandic Banks who were in obvious difficulty
 Wasted £Billions on an illegal war in Iraq.  

 Put 25 million British citizens at risk when they lost their confidential details. 
 Removed the 10p tax band, effectively aiming a tax rise squarely at the lowest paid workers. Do you remember them? The people the labour party was initially set up to represent? 
 Created a weak economy out of a strong one.
 Completely ignored their promises on electoral reform.

 

The fact is the UK has never fully recovered from the last Labour Government. 

 

9 minutes ago, aright said:

What did we hear from the last Labour Government
They removed regulations from the banks - regulations that had been put in place to prevent a crash. Then guess what happened................

The Conservative Government sorted it and you claim they want to reduce regulations.

2010-2015 government policy: bank regulation

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2010-to-2015-government-policy-bank-regulation/2010-to-2015-government-policy-bank-regulation      updated 8 May 2015Updated 8 May 2015

We have introduced the biggest reforms to the banking sector in a generation: to make banks more resilient to shocks, easier to fix when they get into difficulties, and to reduce the severity of future financial crises.

We want to make sure that when banks make losses, retail customers aren’t excessively affected and taxpayers’ money isn’t used to bail banks out.

 Built an economy based on debt and ignored Conservative warnings 
 Showed faith in Icelandic Banks who were in obvious difficulty
 Wasted £Billions on an illegal war in Iraq.  

 Put 25 million British citizens at risk when they lost their confidential details. 
 Removed the 10p tax band, effectively aiming a tax rise squarely at the lowest paid workers. Do you remember them? The people the labour party was initially set up to represent? 
 Created a weak economy out of a strong one.
 Completely ignored their promises on electoral reform.

 

The fact is the UK has never fully recovered from the last Labour Government. 

 

The UK economy, built on consumerism is not going to recover.

 

1 hour ago, aright said:

What did we hear from the last Labour Government
They removed regulations from the banks - regulations that had been put in place to prevent a crash. Then guess what happened................

The Conservative Government sorted it and you claim they want to reduce regulations.

2010-2015 government policy: bank regulation

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/2010-to-2015-government-policy-bank-regulation/2010-to-2015-government-policy-bank-regulation      updated 8 May 2015Updated 8 May 2015

We have introduced the biggest reforms to the banking sector in a generation: to make banks more resilient to shocks, easier to fix when they get into difficulties, and to reduce the severity of future financial crises.

We want to make sure that when banks make losses, retail customers aren’t excessively affected and taxpayers’ money isn’t used to bail banks out.

 Built an economy based on debt and ignored Conservative warnings 
 Showed faith in Icelandic Banks who were in obvious difficulty
 Wasted £Billions on an illegal war in Iraq.  

 Put 25 million British citizens at risk when they lost their confidential details. 
 Removed the 10p tax band, effectively aiming a tax rise squarely at the lowest paid workers. Do you remember them? The people the labour party was initially set up to represent? 
 Created a weak economy out of a strong one.
 Completely ignored their promises on electoral reform.

 

The fact is the UK has never fully recovered from the last Labour Government. 

 

The Conservative Government did not 'sort it out' [The crash]. The response to the economic crash was by the Labour government who poured money into the banks. 

 

The Conservative Government followed that with austerity, froze wages, froze investment, cut public spending, (and very topically) cut the number of police officers on UK streets and slashed the budget of the UK Border Agency.

 

 

46 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Conservative Government did not 'sort it out' [The crash]. The response to the economic crash was by the Labour government who poured money into the banks. 

 

The Conservative Government followed that with austerity, froze wages, froze investment, cut public spending, (and very topically) cut the number of police officers on UK streets and slashed the budget of the UK Border Agency.

 

 

Once again you are looking for tripping points I didn't say they fixed the crash I said they fixed weak banking regulations created by the Labour Government. Stop answering the mistakes you wish I had made. 

As for what the Conservative Government did regarding the economy What else can the incumbent do when they inherit a system which is almost bankrupt? I suspect your answer will be to keep borrowing which is part of the reason the Labour Government got us into the mess in the first place.

21 minutes ago, aright said:

Once again you are looking for tripping points I didn't say they fixed the crash I said they fixed weak banking regulations created by the Labour Government. Stop answering the mistakes you wish I had made. 

As for what the Conservative Government did regarding the economy What else can the incumbent do when they inherit a system which is almost bankrupt? I suspect your answer will be to keep borrowing which is part of the reason the Labour Government got us into the mess in the first place.

Not to mention Gordon Brown..the architect of

the great British financial bungles. 

 

40 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Not to mention Gordon Brown..the architect of

the great British financial bungles. 

 

Crash Gordon. Goldeneye or McCyclops 

The preference of most people is to remain in the EU [emoji846]

Gosh 48% is higher than 52% welcome to remainers world.[emoji4]

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Crash Gordon. Goldeneye or McCyclops 

A Big Brown Skid.

3 hours ago, talahtnut said:

The UK economy, built on consumerism is not going to recover.

 

The credit card users think so

1 hour ago, aright said:

Once again you are looking for tripping points I didn't say they fixed the crash I said they fixed weak banking regulations created by the Labour Government. Stop answering the mistakes you wish I had made. 

As for what the Conservative Government did regarding the economy What else can the incumbent do when they inherit a system which is almost bankrupt? I suspect your answer will be to keep borrowing which is part of the reason the Labour Government got us into the mess in the first place.

So the Conservatives prevented the UK from going bankrupt?

 

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

 

National debt doubled since the financial crash of 2008 and austerity wrecking the fabric of British society.

 

 

 

On 28/02/2018 at 3:17 AM, cooked said:

maybe there is a housing shortage due to the impossibility of planning for an economy that allows hundreds of thousands of immigrants in every year? 

Dunno, that;s probably racist.

Ooooh, dont worry about racism or been considered a racist. It will exist as long as the humans exists. It's just that when Thai's or people of developing countries show this, they are accused of been xenophobic!

 

After all... we all know who started racism!

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So the Conservatives prevented the UK from going bankrupt?

 

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

 

National debt doubled since the financial crash of 2008 and austerity wrecking the fabric of British society.

 

 

 

Both parties are equally responsible for producing an

unsustainable UK economy.

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So the Conservatives prevented the UK from going bankrupt?

 

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

 

National debt doubled since the financial crash of 2008 and austerity wrecking the fabric of British society.

 

 

 

Try and comprehend your own chart. UK debt doubled (up 100%) from 2004-2010 (Labour and crash effects).

 

It was up about 50% from 2010-2016 (Cons / crash effects / austerity measures) but debt not doubled.

 

 

20 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

You do realise that due to the mega use of natural gas that EU has a tiny carbon footprint compared to other large economic blocs e. g. USA and China?

The discussion was about carbon emission targets and failure to reach them. I hope we all know where most of the gas comes from. If Vlad was to turn off the tap, what a shock that would be.