Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, aright said:

Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain-- and most fools do. 

stop criticising.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, aright said:

It appears I have a teaching disability and you have a learning disability.

What are you banging on about? 

I am not sure that there is any call for that, but it is your prerogative as to how you choose to debate with others.

 

You dismissed the EU satisfaction survey, stating:

16 hours ago, aright said:

Our different picture is provided by hard data from election outcomes in Germany, France, Italy etc. 

I therefore suggested that if this was a credible approach, then we can also assume that the Scottish electorate is strongly in favour of independence, based upon GE17.

 

 

 

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

Wrong again. The British people voted for what they wanted. Unfortunately as in Ireland,France and the Netherlands the elite are not willing to accept a democratic decision. And unfortunately they are supported in the UK by many remainers who are very selfish people, thinking of their own self interest and not of the country as a whole.

 

 

 

So two false premisis out of three, that's not bad going for a Brexiteer. 

 

We have control of our borders, we chose to open them, Thatcher negotiated two clauses when we joined, that we would keep our currency and that we would maintain control of our borders, Blair chose to open our borders, and we were one of three countries that went against EU advice and opened our borders early to the 8 succession countries that included Poland, and later chose to make special exceptions for Romanians and Bulgarians to allow them to come early if they were to work in agriculture or meat processing, the choices were ours, democratically elected leaders who chose to open our borders despite our negotiated agreement with the EU allowing us to keep control of them, leaving changes nothing in that respect.

 

We do create our own laws, in the UK these are called acts and statutes, between 1993 and 2014 we passed 945 acts of parliament, 231 of which implemented EU obligations, and we passed 33,160 statues, 4,268 which implemented EU obligations, so 13% of UK law since joining the EU has implemented EU obligations, but that does not mean that many of those laws would not have been passed anyway, we do have vastly differing obligations, many of the laws that we accept are already found in British law and are merely being adjusted slightly to fully comply with the EU obligation, and many laws are not relevant to our country as we do not have the industries that they specifically target, yet we have to comply to meet the universal obligation of EU law, so leaving changes little in this respect.

 

We can leave the Common Market though, a fat lot of good that will do.

 

And I remember the Leave campaign giving a different three main reasons; to further fund the NHS to the tune of £350 million per week, to substantially reduce immigration, and to prevent, what was presented as, an imminent succession of Turkey to the EU and the potential for 78 million Turks to emigrate.  Now that we know that there will not be a spare 350 million a week, that we need immigrants and have been negotiating with third world countries to provide staff post Brexit, and that Turkey is not about to join the EU, you are trying to change the goalposts, but the campaign is there for all to see, we can remember it and we can still read it, so no ones buying it. 

 

Leave also promised to; negotiate trade deals with the US, China, Japan, Canada, Australia, South Korea, New Zealand and others, to create 284,000 new jobs as a result of the former deals, to not harm trade with the EU, to have no border controls in Ireland, to keep free movement for Irish people to work in the UK, to make hundreds of new schools, to make more primary school places in existing schools, and again out of the non existent 350 million, to put more funding into scientific research, to make a points based immigration system, to increase immigration from non-EU countries, to raise junior doctors pay, to abolish prescription charges, to build new hospitals, to replace all current EU funds with funding from the UK purse, to increase agricultural grants, to build new roads, to improve railways, to expand regional airports, to bring back the old tax credits, to subsidise the steel industry, to make new submarines, to make a British DARPA, to fill in potholes (I know, they didn't have the best campaigners), to give all EU citizens residing in the UK the right to remain, to continue to work with and deepen cooperation with the EU on terrorism security and in science, to lower taxes, to lower business rates, to reduce VAT on fuel, to reduce council tax, to reclaim from tax avoiders, to scrap VAT on tampons, to increase wages, to increase the strength of our union, to protect existing EU workers rights, to make a UK-EU treaty by the end of 2018 and to make a new European institutional architecture that enables all European countries, whether in or out of the EU, to freely trade.

 

So you see, there were actually quite a lot of promises made by the Leave campaign, can you spot any in there that they might be able to honour?

[aright]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am not sure that there is any call for that, but it is your prerogative as to how you choose to debate with others.

 

You dismissed the EU satisfaction survey, stating:

I therefore suggested that if this was a credible approach, then we can also assume that the Scottish electorate is strongly in favour of independence, based upon GE17.

 

 

 

Sorry, I didn't realise your sensitivity, to me it was just banter and not part of the debate. It was self deprecating as well and I didn't mean to offend hence the smiley. Apologies if I did.

 

I don't understand the relevance of Scotland's independence on the issue and I do understand the difficulty of answering the hidden question but why not give it a go.

If other Europeans are happy with and increasingly supportive of the EU why have they voted in,a significant increase in extreme right wing politicians recently, with no EU leanings? Why are the Commission terrified of Italy?.

In our Parliament we have no extreme right wing politicians... mmmm.....Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

 

 

 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Sorry, I didn't realise your sensitivity, to me it was just banter and not part of the debate. It was self deprecating as well and I didn't mean to offend hence the smiley. Apologies if I did.

 

No offence taken - I am just a little uncomfortable with that particular style of ribbing, but let's put it behind us as we welcome the bright brexit dawn together :)

1 hour ago, aright said:

 

I don't understand the relevance of Scotland's independence on the issue and I do understand the difficulty of answering the hidden question but why not give it a go.

If other Europeans are happy with and increasingly supportive of the EU why have they voted in,a significant increase in extreme right wing politicians recently, with no EU leanings? Why are the Commission terrified of Italy?.

In our Parliament we have no extreme right wing politicians... mmmm.....Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

It's not relevant to Scotland, per se, but I see it as a useful contract to your argument that public perception of the EU is reflected in the choice of parties they elect. If that was the case, Scotland would have a strongly independent electorate, but the polls on independence do not reflect the allocation of MPs amonst the parties.Therefore, I would conclude that your dismissal of the EU satisfaction data based on the performance of political parties is not justified.

[malagateddy]

Here's a form for all the remoaners to fill in [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I fully believe that the majority of Brexiters are doing what they think is for the best for the country. But the Brexiteers are not representative of the British people, else we would not be having this debate and we would all be walking happily towards Brexit.

 

Brexiteers may represent slightly more who voted - and yes, that is what counts - but so far there has been no major breakthrough in winning over half the country, who remain firmly opposed to it. Calling half the UK selfish and suggesting that they are betraying their country is not helpful.

 

You can shout 'we won - deal with it' as much as you like, but the fact remains that there are many unhappy Remainers out there, and the collective you have failed in the most dismal way possible to reassure them that the future is, indeed, rosy, and that you are not wilfully destroying the future for the entire country.

 

And this is what I think should seriously worry TM. No matter how things turn out - hard, soft or no Brexit - there are going to be huge swathes of very dissatisfied people clamouring to be heard. Language is important and everyone needs to be more responsible about how they contribute to the debate; the crap that the Daily Mail spouts about traitors is particularly troubling.

You're on form today! Great piece. Unarguable!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain-- and most fools do. 

What?? I didn't criticise anyone! Are you OK?

[beautifulthailand99]

Something that seems to get overlooked: when will Brexiters realise that the Brexiteers actually despise them? They want to implement their version of Brexit, not the 17m different versions voted for during the referendum.

"Low grade" - Nigel Farage said that about his own membership.

Johnson and Rees-Mogg have no interest in the plight of the poor. None.

"Strike a blow for the common man." Nonsense. Their goal is to put the common man in his place whilst they get rich off the proceeds.

Nothing will give these people greater pleasure than seeing the masses doff their caps - and the Brexiters are clearly happy to oblige.

Still, they might get a sous thrown at them from the carriage as thanks for being Brexit's Useful Idiots. Britain's very own Yellow Shirts.

 

No doubt the 150 million pound Hedge fund owner Jacob Rees-Mogg has all his bets in place to profit whatever the outcome. 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by beautifulthailand99

[RuamRudy]

39 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You're on form today! Great piece. Unarguable!

Why, thank you, but I fear it was a one-off. Back to sh!t stirring tomorrow.

[Grouse]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-racism-religious-intolerance-united-nations-special-rapporteur-a8348021.html

 

I told you the UK was getting nastier

[soalbundy]

57 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Here's a form for all the remoaners to fill in

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Only the wit is missing, was this a brexiteers intellectual joke ?

[anon789561]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-racism-religious-intolerance-united-nations-special-rapporteur-a8348021.html

 

I told you the UK was getting nastier

and who is she. some halfwit south african lawyer living in the states. maybe she's correct on part

http://metro.co.uk/video/men-hammers-cricket-bats-attack-man-mercedes-1687252/

not allowed to leave comments on that story or the one with the black bus driver shouting at another driver calling him a white bs. not sure why

[beautifulthailand99]

23 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Only the wit is missing, was this a brexiteers intellectual joke ?

just the wit missing ......how about intellect, relevance and originality to name but 3 !

[Grouse]

50 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

and who is she. some halfwit south african lawyer living in the states. maybe she's correct on part

http://metro.co.uk/video/men-hammers-cricket-bats-attack-man-mercedes-1687252/

not allowed to leave comments on that story or the one with the black bus driver shouting at another driver calling him a white bs. not sure why

Yes, you're quite correct. She's a law professor from UCLA (University of California At Los Angeles; graduate of Yale. So spot on there ?

 

I'm not backing any kind of anti social behaviour. We need much stronger policing

 

Personally, I am against Muslims because of their failure to integrate and because many of their mores and customs appall me 

 

But none of that changes my opinion that the UK is getting nastier for multiple reasons. I think it started with Thatcher but there was a major uptick following the Brexit referendum

 

I don't want the UK following the USA. We'll be living in gated communities next

 

The solution is rekindling society And neighbourliness. If you see yobbish behaviour, wade in!

Edited May 12, 2018 by Grouse

[soalbundy]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, you're quite correct. She's a law professor from UCLA (University of California At Los Angeles; graduate of Yale. So spot on there ?

 

I'm not backing any kind of anti social behaviour. We need much stronger policing

 

Personally, I am against Muslims because of their failure to integrate and because many of their mores and customs appall me 

 

But none of that changes my opinion that the UK is getting nastier for multiple reasons. I think it started with Thatcher but there was a major uptick following the Brexit referendum

 

I don't want the UK following the USA. We'll be living in gated communities next

 

The solution is rekindling society And neighbourliness. If you see yobbish behaviour, wade in!

and get knifed.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

and get knifed.

Not if we all do it!

 

It's never stopped me in the past

 

Reflex reaction. I wouldn't go down alone that's for sure

[malagateddy]

Yes, you're quite correct. She's a law professor from UCLA (University of California At Los Angeles; graduate of Yale. So spot on there [emoji846]
 
I'm not backing any kind of anti social behaviour. We need much stronger policing
 
Personally, I am against Muslims because of their failure to integrate and because many of their mores and customs appall me 
 
But none of that changes my opinion that the UK is getting nastier for multiple reasons. I think it started with Thatcher but there was a major uptick following the Brexit referendum
 
I don't want the UK following the USA. We'll be living in gated communities next
 
The solution is rekindling society And neighbourliness. If you see yobbish behaviour, wade in!

Grouse..please remember that we are mere kaffirs..they are the ummah..the chosen ones

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Something that seems to get overlooked: when will Brexiters realise that the Brexiteers actually despise them? They want to implement their version of Brexit, not the 17m different versions voted for during the referendum.

"Low grade" - Nigel Farage said that about his own membership.

Johnson and Rees-Mogg have no interest in the plight of the poor. None.

"Strike a blow for the common man." Nonsense. Their goal is to put the common man in his place whilst they get rich off the proceeds.

Nothing will give these people greater pleasure than seeing the masses doff their caps - and the Brexiters are clearly happy to oblige.

Still, they might get a sous thrown at them from the carriage as thanks for being Brexit's Useful Idiots. Britain's very own Yellow Shirts.

 

No doubt the 150 million pound Hedge fund owner Jacob Rees-Mogg has all his bets in place to profit whatever the outcome. 

 

 

 

 

Can you please provide a link to show that JRM or Nigel Farage, did in fact ever make these quotes. Otherwise expect people will think it’s all lies. Thank you.

[aright]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

What?? I didn't criticise anyone! Are you OK?

There you go again criticising me!

As an aside have you read "The year of living Danishly" by Helen Russell ( yes I know she's a woman.).It's a good read.

Apparently there are rules for everything including how many times your bicycle light must flash per minute and I know how important things like this are to you..

This is right down your street............a Scandinavian lust list.

 

[Grouse]

41 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

Can you please provide a link to show that JRM or Nigel Farage, did in fact ever make these quotes. Otherwise expect people will think it’s all lies. Thank you.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/09/nigel-farage-scathing-attack-ukip-low-grade-people

[Kieran00001]

36 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

Can you please provide a link to show that JRM or Nigel Farage, did in fact ever make these quotes. Otherwise expect people will think it’s all lies. Thank you.

 

https://leave.eu/telegraph-interview-nigel-farage/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/state-school-pupils-are-potted-plants-says-tory-418767.html

 

 

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, aright said:

There you go again criticising me!

As an aside have you read "The year of living Danishly" by Helen Russell ( yes I know she's a woman.).It's a good read.

Apparently there are rules for everything including how many times your bicycle light must flash per minute and I know how important things like this are to you..

This is right down your street............a Scandinavian lust list.

 

I will certainly read it!

 

I do have a PH5 light in my Thai House which I try to make Hyggelig!

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, Happy enough said:

and who is she. some halfwit south african lawyer living in the states. maybe she's correct on part

http://metro.co.uk/video/men-hammers-cricket-bats-attack-man-mercedes-1687252/

not allowed to leave comments on that story or the one with the black bus driver shouting at another driver calling him a white bs. not sure why

She is from Zambia,and is a supporter of Mugabes policy of removing all white farmers from that country. Is that in itself not racist?

One of her 3 jobs is as a research assistant at the AfricanCentre for migration(ACMS)at the university of Witwatersrand.

 She decided to visit the UK for eleven days, yes that’s correct 11days in her U.N. capacity. And then concluded that the U.K. is less tolerant than Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia,China,Sudan and Thailand. Stateing that the UK racially discriminates and is more Xenophobic than other countries.

And all this because of Brexit. Amazing.

 

This woman came to the UK with her agenda, stayed 11 days, wrote her report and left.

She has been in post 6 months and still holds down her positions as an Assistant Professor at UCLA’s School of Law and, very poignantly, a research associate of the African Center for Migration and Society (ACMS), at the University of Witwatersrand.

So effectively running three jobs, she decided in her UN capacity, that of all the countries in the world, that the UK was top on her list to visit. The UK is so bad, worse than Saudi, China, Japan, Zimbabwe, Sudan, etc in Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, that this must be one of her first ports of call?

What a biased and one sided piece of nonsense it really is, she is pushing her agenda totally.

 

This woman came to the UK with her agenda, stayed 11 days, wrote her report and left.

She has been in post 6 months and still holds down her positions as an Assistant Professor at UCLA’s School of Law and, very poignantly, a research associate of the African Center for Migration and Society (ACMS), at the University of Witwatersrand.

So effectively running three jobs, she decided in her UN capacity, that of all the countries in the world, that the UK was top on her list to visit. The UK is so bad, worse than Saudi, China, Japan, Zimbabwe, Sudan, etc in Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, that this must be one of her first ports of call?

What a biased and one sided piece of nonsense it really is, she is pushing her agenda totally.

This woman came to the UK with her agenda, stayed 11 days, wrote her report and left.This woman came to the UK with her agenda, stayed 11 days, wrote her report and left.

She has been in post 6 months and still holds down her positions as an Assistant Professor at UCLA’s School of Law and, very poignantly, a research associate of the African Center for Migration and Society (ACMS), at the University of Witwatersrand.

So effectively running three jobs, she decided in her UN capacity, that of all the countries in the world, that the UK was top on her list to visit. The UK is so bad, worse than Saudi, China, Japan, Zimbabwe, Sudan, etc in Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, that this must be one of her first ports of call?

What a biased and one sided piece of nonsense it really is, she is pushing her agenda totally.

She has been in post 6 months and still holds down her positions as an Assistant Professor at UCLA’s School of Law and, very poignantly, a research associate of the African Center for Migration and Society (ACMS), at the University of Witwatersrand.

So effectively running three jobs, she decided in her UN capacity, that of all the countries in the world, that the UK was top on her list to visit. The UK is so bad, worse than Saudi, China, Japan, Zimbabwe, Sudan, etc in Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, that this must be one of her first ports of call?

What a biased and one sided piece of nonsense it really is, she is pushing her agenda totally.

[aright]

6 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

No offence taken - I am just a little uncomfortable with that particular style of ribbing, but let's put it behind us as we welcome the bright brexit dawn together :)

It's not relevant to Scotland, per se, but I see it as a useful contract to your argument that public perception of the EU is reflected in the choice of parties they elect. If that was the case, Scotland would have a strongly independent electorate, but the polls on independence do not reflect the allocation of MPs amonst the parties.Therefore, I would conclude that your dismissal of the EU satisfaction data based on the performance of political parties is not justified.

Once again you keep ignoring the central question. Two answers to your implied question. In my opinion Scotland can have a referendum any time it wants one Why has NS not called for one? Because I don't think she feels she would win it. Secondly are you calling SNP members who want independence on a political and social par with extreme right wing MPs in Germany France and Italy. If  not my question still needs an answer . 

[StreetCowboy]

16 minutes ago, aright said:

Once again you keep ignoring the central question. Two answers to your implied question. In my opinion Scotland can have a referendum any time it wants one Why has NS not called for one? Because I don't think she feels she would win it. Secondly are you calling SNP members who want independence on a political and social par with extreme right wing MPs in Germany France and Italy. If  not my question still needs an answer . 

I think that what he is saying is that the membership of parliament does not necessarily accurately reflect the views of the people that they represent

[beautifulthailand99]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

Can you please provide a link to show that JRM or Nigel Farage, did in fact ever make these quotes. Otherwise expect people will think it’s all lies. Thank you.

No problem my friend - so prepare to doff your cap and bend over for those born to rule ....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/state-school-pupils-are-potted-plants-says-tory-418767.html

 

He is a hyper wealthy nasty piece of work who can't believe his current popularity bolstered in large part by working class Brexiters who think he speaks for them but like fellow Etonian Boris he speaks only for himself , his class and his interests. Wake up sheeple you are being played royally at least Thais are brainwashed by the state and have 112 to keep them in line. Brits have no excuse for not being better informed. 

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by beautifulthailand99

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

https://leave.eu/telegraph-interview-nigel-farage/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/state-school-pupils-are-potted-plants-says-tory-418767.html

 

 

So where did he actually say “All People who went to a state school” 

In this report from the so called Independent.

it’s akin to me saying than many, if not most remoaners are selfish individuals. However I accept that not All are.

Edited May 12, 2018 by nontabury

[beautifulthailand99]

18 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So where did he actually say “All People who went to a state school” 

In this report from the so called Independent.

it’s akin to me saying than many, if not most remoaners are selfish individuals. However I accept that not All are.

Ok maybe not all but the drift of his point is quite clear. Public school / Oxbridge alumni are born and fit to rule - others cam man the buses  , build the house and work with their hands. We don't want them and their soiled boots in the corridors of power thank you vary much. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by beautifulthailand99

[StreetCowboy]

21 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Ok maybe not all but the drift of his point is quite clear. Public school / Oxbridge alumni are born and fit to rule - others cam man the buses  , build the house and work with their hands. We don't want them and their soiled boots in the corridors of power thank you vary much. 

If it was good enough for Queen Victoria, it's good enough for me!