Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[billd766]

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180611/ANE/180619943?template=mobile02&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

 

Land Rover to move all Discovery production to Slovakia from 2019. Why 2019 I have no idea. Tragic.

 

The latest electric Jaguars are to be made in Austria.

 

At least we still have The Mini; well assembly but not drive trains.

 

I'm off to bed ?

 

I have just read the article.  Did you deliberately omit to mention this from the article?

 

The new Range Rover and Range Rover Sport will however be built at the automaker's central English Solihull plant on an architecture which is designed to allow for diesel, gasoline, electric and hybrid models to be produced.

Monday's announcement comes after JLR said this year it will cut 1,000 jobs and reduce production at two of its English factories as demand for diesel cars slumps in the face of higher taxes and a regulatory crackdown.

 

Do you think that Mercedes Benz will also be in big trouble now?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44444361

 

The German government has ordered car maker Daimler to recall 238,000 vehicles in Germany after they were found to be fitted with illegal software that masks diesel emissions.

Across Europe a total of 774,000 diesel vehicles contain "defeat devices" and Daimler said it would recall them all.

The diesel versions of the Mercedes C-Class, Vito and GLC models are the main ones affected, the ministry said.

Daimler said it would refit the software but denied any wrongdoing.

 

 

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

But none of this applies to the UK because

It applies to the UK because Illegals are lining up in various places throughout the EU looking for a way to Illegally enter the UK

 

I do not know how I can make that any simpler for you to understand.

 

Do you really think that Illegals give 2 hoots about

 

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

• Freedom of movement only applies to non EEA nationals qualifying family members of an EEA national who are travelling with or to join said family member and
• the UK is not in the Schengen area.

 

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, tebee said:

Having worked in my freelance days, in 7 different counties myself, I don't understand  the current demonization of immigrants, especially on here as we must assume that most of the people  here are immigrants themselves!   

 

Historically too, Britain has been a country where large numbers went to work abroad, would Bangladeshis and Indians want to come to the UK  if it were not the "mother country"?

 

45 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I know this is a Thailand based forum but by what twisted logic does the Thai definition of immigration status apply in the UK?

 

Ask tebee.

 

He started the twisted logic of trying to compare those of us who live in Thailand - with immigrants to the uk.....

 

"we must assume that most of the people  here are immigrants themselves!"

Edited June 12, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[transam]

27 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I see that, yet again, those Thai residents who are anti immigration to the UK are claiming that they are not 'anti immigration immigrants' because their visas say 'non immigrant' and so they have no permanent residence in Thailand.

 

In that case, they must agree that all those in the UK with student visas, work visas, family visas etc. cannot be immigrants. Even those who have obtained Indefinite Leave to Remain cannot be immigrants because indefinite is not permanent!

 

If this were the case, the UK's net migration figure would paint a very different picture!

 

 

I will ask you again a little different..

 

Why does LOS write on a Visa NON immigrant...Why not leave it blank with just quote dates allowed  to stay...?

[The manic]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

 

Ask tebee.

 

He started the twisted logic of trying to compare those of us who live in Thailand - with immigrants to the uk.....

 

"we must assume that most of the people  here are immigrants themselves!"

I'm an expat. No right to vote, hold political office or own land. Just as I was an expat in Saudi, Kuwait etc. 

[evadgib]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dr-fox-on-latest-trade-figures

[Chomper Higgot]

29 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

And still you continue with garbage and still get it wrong.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/288261/circulation-trend-of-the-daily-mail-newspaper-uk/

 

Hoot Hoot.

You seem to be laboring under the misunderstanding that in this 21st century a newspaper’ ‘readership’ is determined by how many hard copies of the paper are printed.

 

Perhaps this explains your inability to navigate the ‘statistica’ website:

 

Here, let me help you out:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/380710/daily-mail-the-mail-on-sunday-monthly-reach-by-demographic-uk/

 

Extract below, numbers in 000s.

[tebee]

9 minutes ago, The manic said:

I'm an expat. No right to vote, hold political office or own land. Just as I was an expat in Saudi, Kuwait etc. 

Immigrants don't have the right to vote in the UK either - so are they expats too?

[tebee]

26 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Ask tebee.

 

He started the twisted logic of trying to compare those of us who live in Thailand - with immigrants to the uk.....

 

"we must assume that most of the people  here are immigrants themselves!"

I'm pointing out that we use the expat/immigrant dicontomy to avoid looking at ourselves as the same as the people who move to our home country 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, owl sees all said:

And who is actually smelling the coffee? What farce are you referring to?

 

Good for UK to get out of the sinking monstrosity of the EU ship; which, by the way, is run by and for the benefit of big business, bankers and bureaucrats. A ship steered by the Germans.

There will always be those that subscribe to the delusion that Britannia will once again rule the waves. They do so under some perverse notion that they can opt out of the EU and keep all the fringe benefits.

Even TM recognises that the UK needs a partnership with the EU, partnership or membership, whatever happens you will be tied to the EU one way or another.

It will come as a bit of a shock to many if the partnership turns out to cost more than membership in both financial and regulatory terms.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

I'm pointing out that we use the expat/immigrant dicontomy to avoid looking at ourselves as the same as the people who move to our home country 

But you cannot compare Thailand to the UK, there are too many liberals in the UK. Illegal immigrants have more rights than us guests here in Thailand.

 

"If you're living illegally in the UK, you might be able to apply for leave to remain or British citizenship. You’ll be able to legally work, access the NHS and receive benefits if you need them.

You can also get help returning to your home country if you choose to.

You'll need help from an immigration specialist to make the application. Don't worry, getting advice will be confidential - a specialist won't tell anybody about your query."

 

Can we expect such privileges here, no of course we can't.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There will always be those that subscribe to the delusion that Britannia will once again rule the waves. They do so under some perverse notion that they can opt out of the EU and keep all the fringe benefits.

Even TM recognises that the UK needs a partnership with the EU, partnership or membership, whatever happens you will be tied to the EU one way or another.

It will come as a bit of a shock to many if the partnership turns out to cost more than membership in both financial and regulatory terms.

Did the UK trade with Europe before the EU came along, did Europe trade with the UK before the EU came along....?

I would suggest ruling the waves has nothing to do with this topic, that is unless you are envious of the UK's past history..

[The Renegade]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You seem to be laboring under the misunderstanding that in this 21st century a newspaper’ ‘readership’ is determined by how many hard copies of the paper are printed.

 

Perhaps this explains your inability to navigate the ‘statistica’ website:

 

Here, let me help you out:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/380710/daily-mail-the-mail-on-sunday-monthly-reach-by-demographic-uk/

 

Extract below, numbers in 000s.

Are you trying to taunt me into a response ? Are you trying to bait me ?

 

Here, let me help you out.

 

48 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

This statistic displays the circulation of The Daily Mail in the United Kingdom from the first half of 2003 to the second half of 2016. As of the second half of 2015, The Daily Mail had a circulation rate of 1.5 million copies.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/288261/circulation-trend-of-the-daily-mail-newspaper-uk/

 

Not only do you have difficulty in interpreting graphs, you also have difficulty in understanding plain English.

 

Let me type this s - l - o - w - l - y so that even you can understand it.

 

The Daily Mail has never had a circulation anywhere near 17,000,000 as you previously claimed.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Did the UK trade with Europe before the EU came along, did Europe trade with the UK before the EU came along....?

I would suggest ruling the waves has nothing to do with this topic, that is unless you are envious of the UK's past history..

You're harking back to the days when the UK was the sick man of Europe, don't got there Bro, it wasn't a good time. 

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You're harking back to the days when the UK was the sick man of Europe, don't got there Bro, it wasn't a good time. 

Stating a fact is not harking back to anything, it is merely stating a fact.

 

The UK traded with Europe / Europe traded with the UK before the EU was invented.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You're harking back to the days when the UK was the sick man of Europe, don't got there Bro, it wasn't a good time. 

Really, how has the small UK nation become one of the strongest financial European nations..Being sick, giving life fighting for other Europeans that cost dear then still came back to financially support weak EU members...

Pull your neck back in BRO....

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, The Renegade said:

Are you trying to taunt me into a response ? Are you trying to bait me ?

 

Here, let me help you out.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/288261/circulation-trend-of-the-daily-mail-newspaper-uk/

 

Not only do you have difficulty in interpreting graphs, you also have difficulty in understanding plain English.

 

Let me type this s - l - o - w - l - y so that even you can understand it.

 

The Daily Mail has never had a circulation anywhere near 17,000,000 as you previously claimed.

I've already thanked your for correcting my claim that the DM has a 'Readership' of 17,000,000 and I have provided data that demonstrates a 'Readership' of over 13,000,000.

 

Now you've started making references to 'Circulation', which grossly underestimates 'Readership'.

 

Your reference to 'Circulation' as a counter argument to my discussion of 'Readership' is meaningless. 

 

I admitted my error in claiming the DM had a 'Readership' of 17,000,000 (the actual number is just over 13,000,000). 

 

Let's see if you are man enough to admit your error mistaking circulation for readership.

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Stating a fact is not harking back to anything, it is merely stating a fact.

 

The UK traded with Europe / Europe traded with the UK before the EU was invented.

Yes correct, the UK traded with Europe before the EU came along. 

 

And that trade was a fraction of what it is today. Also a fact.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Really, how has the small UK nation become one of the strongest financial European nations..Being sick, giving life fighting for other Europeans that cost dear then still came back to financially support weak EU members...

Pull your neck back in BRO....

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't all bad news. The UK used to export labourers and construction site workers to Germany, it gave rise to one of the UK's best sit-coms.

[The Renegade]

57 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I admitted my error in claiming the DM had a 'Readership' of 17,000,000 (the actual number is just over 13,000,000). 

 

Let's see if you are man enough to admit your error mistaking circulation for readership.

Your mistake is that you are using a monthly figure.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/380710/daily-mail-the-mail-on-sunday-monthly-reach-by-demographic-uk/

 

UK press is normally described by daily circulation, not on a monthly basis.

 

eg

 

Daily Mail

Circulation: 1,383,932 (November 2017)

The Sun

Circulation: 1,481,876 (March 2018)

 

The Guardian

Circulation: 148,169 (March 2018)

The Times

Circulation: 435,061 (November 2017)

 

[The manic]

Just now, tebee said:

Immigrants don't have the right to vote in the UK either - so are they expats too?

Every immigrant I have known has the right to vote, to work, to stand for parliament,  to be in the house of lords, to be mayors, councillors, magistrates. To own land and property, set busineses, etc. The have all the same rights a other citizens.Why ask such an inane question? You seem very confused not just about the status of immigrants in the UK but in the not so nuanced purposes for which people travel. There are several differences between expats and immigrants to conflate the two is leftie nonsense or ignorance of the English language. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by The manic

[The manic]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't all bad news. The UK used to export labourers and construction site workers to Germany, it gave rise to one of the UK's best sit-coms.

Ah yes. The boys from the black stuff. 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Your mistake is that you are using a monthly figure.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/380710/daily-mail-the-mail-on-sunday-monthly-reach-by-demographic-uk/

 

UK press is normally described by daily circulation, not on a monthly basis.

 

Being a NON - Brit it easy to see how and why you were confused.

 

eg

 

Daily Mail

Circulation: 1,383,932 (November 2017)

The Sun

Circulation: 1,481,876 (March 2018)

 

The Guardian

Circulation: 148,169 (March 2018)

The Times

Circulation: 435,061 (November 2017)

 

I did not make a mistake when I chose to use the term 'Readership' (which by convention is expressed as a monthly figure).

 

You made a mistake, deliberately or otherwise referring to 'Circulation' when addressing my comments regarding 'Readership', you do so again above. 

 

I've admitted my error and thanked you for correcting my claim that the DM readership is 17,000,000 (the actual 'Readership' is a little over 13,000,000).

 

You've made an error yourself, I was discussing 'Readership' your references to 'Circulation' grossly underestimate 'Readership'.

 

Are you man enough to admit your mistake?

 

[Edit] Once again you make this totally unfounded claim regarding my citizenship. You have absolutely no evidence to back up the claims you are making regarding this matter. 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, The manic said:

Every immigrant I have known has the right to vote, to work, to stand for parliament,  to be in the house of lords, to be mayors, councillors, magistrates. To own land and property, set busineses, etc. The have all the same rights a other citizens.Why ask such an inane question? You seem very confused not just about the status of immigrants in the UK but in the not so nuanced purposes for which people travel. There are several differences between expats and immigrants to conflate the two is leftie nonsense or ignorance of the English language. 

I'm sure you believe all that to be true. 

 

But its not.

 

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registration/who-is-eligible-to-vote-at-a-uk-general-election

 

[Edit]

https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/electing-mps/candidates/

Edited June 12, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

[Edit] Once again you make this totally unfounded claim regarding my citizenship. You have absolutely no evidence to back up the claims you are making regarding this matter. 

 

Your constant use of American English suggests otherwise.

 

Your lack of knowledge on matters UK suggests otherwise.

 

UK media is never referred to as monthly readership, always Daily Circulation. Perhaps Monthly is used elsewhere in the world.

 

You have a nice day now ??

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Your constant use of American English suggests otherwise.

 

Your lack of knowledge on matters UK suggests otherwise.

 

UK media is never referred to as monthly readership, always Daily Circulation. Perhaps Monthly is used elsewhere in the world.

 

You have a nice day now ??

Again, unwarranted and unwelcome references to my nationality (Something I have chosen never to discuss on TVF, so on what basis do yo do so!). 

 

And once again a repeat of 'Circulation' something I never discussed. 

 

[PREM-R]

21 minutes ago, The manic said:

Ah yes. The boys from the black stuff. 

'fraid not.... guess again.... I'll give you a clue....AUF......

[transam]

2 minutes ago, PREM-R said:

'fraid not.... guess again.... I'll give you a clue....AUF......

Pet...

[nontabury]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

You stated that figure in direct response to my post about the number of Border Force officers employed in Calais; at least i assume that to be the case as you quoted me!

 

But maybe we misunderstood each other, so let's leave it there.

 

So, based on your experience of just two drivers in a year having illegals onboard, what is your estimate of the percentage of trucks carrying illegals, with or without the knowledge and collusion of the driver?

 

It's definitely not 80%; unless your depot only has 2.5 trucks using it per year!

 

If the UK's borders are as porous as claimed by some here, how come there are so many migrants camped in France trying and failing to get into the UK? 

 

The vociferous Brexiteers who make such claims about the ease of illegal immigration into the UK have all chosen to ignore that question.

 I don’t understand your response to his experience. Because there are thousands of would be illegal immigrants in Calais,  who are trying in enter the land of milk and honey, you seem to assume that therefore very few are successful. Yet according to statements by government departments, plus from many organizations including those sympathetic to their plight, there are upwards of 1 million illegal immigrants in the U.K.

 

  However None of this is applicable to Brexit, as those would be illegal immigrants(economic migrants) are originally from outside the E.U.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by nontabury

[The Renegade]

It appears that Ireland is breaking ranks with the EU

 

Quote

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said he won’t accept the return of a hard border on the island of Ireland after Brexit even if Britain crashes out of the European Union without a deal on its future relationship with the bloc.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-11/ireland-tells-eu-it-won-t-accept-a-brexit-border-pm-says

 

That has just goosed Barnier's negotiating strategy.