Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

You say you don't recall anything like that in this debate, well you and I have this debate before where you mentioned that their rude remarks was merely flippancy. If nothing else I have a good memory.

 

As far as I can recollect you have never insulted anyone but your political bias can be overbearing at times, I sometimes think that your posts have more to do with Scottish Independence than Brexit, but you are not alone on here with that one.

I genuinely don't recall a Dad's Army controversy, but possibly I did gloss over it. If so, I was possibly suggesting that when the term is used against a group it is less of an issue, especially with the trade in belittling terms that fly back and forth. What I do not like, however, is when terms are used against individuals (not from you, I hasten to add - or not that my shonky memory recalls) - no need for that. 

 

I do admit that it is very easy for me to be encouraged to mount my indyref hobby horse. Believe it or not, I do feel bad about hijacking the thread and have tried to minimise it or redirect the discussion to more appropriate threads - please give me a kick if I go off on too long a tangent again ?.

[bristolboy]

21 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Are you always so touchy ? Is telling the truth really insulting ?

 

You are a Jock and you are an SNP sycophant after all.

You have to love the cluelessness of this comment.

[The Renegade]

This for me highlights the failings within the EU.

 

Today, an EU Migration summit is taking place. Fantastic, this is needed. The problem is

 

Quote

The comments come a day before 16 EU leaders convene in Brussels at a summit to discuss the migration dispute that is dividing Europe and threatening the stability of one of the EU's key economies, Germany.

Why is there only 16 Countries taking part ? I thought the mantra was that the EU was a club of 28 equals ? Let's call it 27, The UK is on the way out.

 

Quote

French President Emmanuel Macron said on Saturday that EU states that benefited from the bloc yet considered only their own self-interest when it came to taking in migrants with proven asylum status should face financial penalties.

 

http://www.dw.com/en/frances-president-emmanuel-macron-backs-sanctions-on-eu-states-refusing-migrants/a-44363945

 

Why does Macron feel the need to pour petrol on an already smouldering fire ?

 

Are they actually trying to break up the EU ?

[tebee]

26 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

tebee

 

After your performance yesterday over the Airbus headline, I thought I would post this from the FT for you. 

 

Very similar to Financial Services. With friends like that, who needs enemies ?

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/e4109788-7635-11e8-b326-75a27d27ea5f

 

So to put your mind at rest, Airbus will not be going anywhere in the near future.

 

As we all know, a certain Grouse swears by the FT and is in fact very disparaging against people who do not have an FT subscription. 

 

Therefore, the above article must be nailed on truth.

 

 

yes, I think it would be almost impossible for Airbus to move production out of the UK  before March next year. Equally it will be impossible to continue production in the UK if we have a hard Brexit.

 

I think the most likely scenario now  is extending article 50 expiration date by 2-5 years. This gives the UK gov some time to get its act together and decide what it wants. The EU will not oppose this as they know companies like Airbus need some time to set up alternative manufacturing facilities if UK gov insists on the economically suicidal course odf leaving SM+CU.

 

But already we have done untold damage to our own economy. Who will invest in a country that might suddenly decide to neutralize the value of those investments by making impossible to do business there ?  

 

From the comments on that article

 

Airbus should and probably will hedge its bets, i.e. establish an alternative to the UK. It will take years, but it would be crazy for them to rely on us. Perhaps some part of production will remain here, perhaps not, depending on whether the crazies win out this time. 

 

But even when BoJo is history - and what boring, dishonest and self-serving books he will write about it all - there will still be a problem. Economics and politics alike now make the UK a poor prospect. We have trashed our very long and hitherto well-rooted reputation for political stability and commonsense.
 

But in reality leaving the SM+CU makes no sense except to the fevered Brexit brain. If we want to trade with the EU post-brexit we will need to retain EU standards - this was illustrated by the EU insisting that we retained EU environmental standards post-brexit. There are no advantages to be gained by leaving them, and extra sovereignty is only nominal  and it doesn't pay the mortgage .

 

Another comments from the article
   

It would make sense to try to find a way to make best use of the existing production facilities, but not to put any new money into the UK production facilities to modernise it or expand it, and gradually build up new production facilities to coincide with the investment cycle of the existing facilities.

 

While there is still a possibility of the UK remaining in the SM+CU, I don't think they want to make a rash decision. I think they want to put maximum pressure on the Government.

 

In the long run, the UK will have no choice but to remain in the SM+CU. There are two routes to this. The first is the hard way, with a total humiliation, economic destruction, a period of soul searching, and come to the inevitable conclusion after so many years. The second is to conclude an association agreement with the EU during the transition period. Either way, in 10 years time, the UK will be in the SM+CU. If not, the UK will be in a worse shape than Greece.
 

 

[tebee]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

Are you always so touchy ? Is telling the truth really insulting ?

 

You are a Jock and you are an SNP sycophant after all. Your comments seems to back this up.

 

....

 

45 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You have to love the cluelessness of this comment.

He's obviously read Dale Carnegie's  book on how to win friends and influence people...

[The Renegade]

16 minutes ago, tebee said:

Either way, in 10 years time, the UK will be in the SM+CU. If not, the UK will be in a worse shape than Greece.

You really believe that ?

 

1. Are you certain that there will be a SM and CU in 10 years time ? Those crystal balls are great, where can I buy one ?

 

See my comment above

 

Quote

Why does Macron feel the need to pour petrol on an already smouldering fire ?

 

Are they actually trying to break up the EU ?

 

2. Come on tebee. You obviously agree that in 10 years time the UK will be in a worse state than Greece ? Please give us the benefit of your wisdom and your explanation of how the UK will be worse than Greece in 10 years time.

 

I won't hold my breath ??

 

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

He's obviously read Dale Carnegie's  book on how to win friends and influence people...

So witty tebee, absolutely hysterical ?? Should I take that as a Brucie Bonus or an insult ?

Edited June 24, 2018 by The Renegade

[tebee]

[The Renegade]

7 minutes ago, tebee said:

Brilliant again tebee.

 

Let us all take to tw@tter trawling to find stuff that we agree with.

 

???

 

 

[tebee]

14 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Brilliant again tebee.

 

Let us all take to tw@tter trawling to find stuff that we agree with.

 

???

 

 

It amused me ( ok not hard, small minds and all that) I thought it might amuse others.

 

Just trying to spread a little joy in the world - it has many of the factors that I find make a witty yet pertinent comment on the world - a pithy summary, with an eliment of truth in it's message.  

[Kiwiken]

A British politician has demanded another referendum demanding there be another vote Once Brexit talks have concluded for the people to vote on whatever if any agreement you have made. Her rationale that 650 members of Parliament should not decide for the entire Nation.

Funny when it comes to Joining the EU, Going to wars you dont wish to, Or selling of the Family Silver they do not ask.

Whether left or Right they are all arrogant.

Governments should be constrained by the will of the majority.

Britain now has a unique opportunity to become a reborn World Leader.

You did not build or control an Empire for 300 years without taking hard decisions.

And you certainly did not do it being controlled by  bureaucrats in Brussells who revel in Destroying Individualism and National identity in the pursuit of a new European people. A bit like the Tower of Babel the end will be the same

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

Funny when it comes to Joining the EU, Going to wars you dont wish to, Or selling of the Family Silver they do not ask.

Whether left or Right they are all arrogant.

Correct

 

2 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

Governments should be constrained by the will of the majority.

But for decades they have used the EU as a get out of jail free card - It's not us, its the EU's fault. Absolute <deleted> but difficult to hold them to account when they can freely play that card.

 

4 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

And you certainly did not do it being controlled by  bureaucrats in Brussells who revel in Destroying Individualism and National identity in the pursuit of a new European people.

This is what will ultimately destroy the EU. The deaf, dumb and blind kids, who worship the EU cannot  see, hear or understand this.

[The Renegade]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

It amused me ( ok not hard, small minds and all that) I thought it might amuse others.

 

Just trying to spread a little joy in the world - it has many of the factors that I find make a witty yet pertinent comment on the world - a pithy summary, with an eliment of truth in it's message.  

tebee

 

There is nothing funny or amusing  about posting, as yet, unsubstantiated rumours. It is one of the reasons that '' Fake News '' spreads like wildfire.

 

As I pointed out to you yesterday.

[tebee]

10 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

tebee

 

There is nothing funny or amusing  about posting, as yet, unsubstantiated rumours. It is one of the reasons that '' Fake News '' spreads like wildfire.

 

As I pointed out to you yesterday.

Interesting that Borris hasn't tried to deny it - I think it fits his "jolly buffon" narrative well.

Edited June 24, 2018 by tebee

[tebee]

This rings so true to me about the state of current negotiations. 

 

"A weak and deeply divided government is now embroiled in negotiations with the EU with little sign that it understands the complexities involved, or even the most basic realities. Effectively, it is trying to operationalise the central lie of the Leave campaign: that it is possible to leave without consequences. Meanwhile, the economic damage is growing and Britain is experiencing a bitterly divisive cultural war."

[The Renegade]

40 minutes ago, tebee said:

This rings so true to me about the state of current negotiations. 

 

"A weak and deeply divided government is now embroiled in negotiations with the EU with little sign that it understands the complexities involved, or even the most basic realities. Effectively, it is trying to operationalise the central lie of the Leave campaign: that it is possible to leave without consequences. Meanwhile, the economic damage is growing and Britain is experiencing a bitterly divisive cultural war."

Could you cite your sources please.

 

I would hate to think I was reading an 18 month old story ??

 

I am a bit concerned about this part

 

41 minutes ago, tebee said:

Meanwhile, the economic damage is growing

Remainers keep posting this, oblivious to the fact that last year ( 2017 ) the UK economy actually grew by 1.7%

[evadgib]

JRM on form this week grilling a bloke wearing a back to front syrup ?

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by evadgib

[Eloquent pilgrim]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Grouse mentioned Transactional Analysis in an earlier comment - you should read up on it. It will possibly reveal to you why some take the tone with you that they do - not only will it be educational, it's a fascinating subject.

So I now have both yourself and Grouse telling me to read up on Transactional Analysis, the implication being that I have no knowledge of it, which is incorrect, as well as being off topic, but I did not instigate the discussion about it.

 

Can you tell me how it might reveal to me why some take the tone with me that they do, which is your second implication, so I hope you can.

 

Dr. Eric Berne who developed transactional analysis made special note of the complexities of human communication, highlighting the fact that facial expressions, gestures, tone of voice and body language are regarded as more important than the actual words spoken or written. He also said that external influences particularly from parents or other adults in parent-like roles, can be a great influence in early childhood.

 

So, considering that you know absolutely nothing about me, and cannot see any of my facial expressions or body language, I am genuinely interested to know how you feel you can use this extremely complex and interesting subject to make a judgement on me.

 

I won’t bother asking Grouse, because he just uses this type of ploy to try and insult or bait people, whilst staying under the radar of the moderators. I hope you are not stooping to the same dark arts, still at least you managed to spell Transactional correctly, which is more than our resident expert on the subject could do.   

[The Renegade]

24 minutes ago, evadgib said:

JRM on form this week grilling the bloke with the back to front syrup ?

 

It is what I have said from the start. Tell the EU that under no circumstances will the UK be implementing a hard border and throw it right back at the EU.

 

The EU want to protect their precious SM / CU let them protect it.

Edited June 24, 2018 by The Renegade

[tebee]

Just now, The Renegade said:

Could you cite your sources please.

 

I would hate to think I was reading an 18 month old story ??

 

I am a bit concerned about this part

 

Remainers keep posting this, oblivious to the fact that last year ( 2017 ) the UK economy actually grew by 1.7%

From here(yesterday) http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2018/06/two-years-into-brexit-disaster.html

 

Do you disagree with any of the sentiments ?

 

Government week and divided?

 

Doesn't understand the complexities involved?

 

Trying to operationalise the central lie of the Leave campaign: that it is possible to leave without consequences?

 

 Economic damage is growing?

 

Britain is experiencing a bitterly divisive cultural war?

 

1.7% is less than inflation so it shrunk in real terms - less than the rest of EU too - in Germany grew by 2.8%

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

Just look up Transactionsal Analysis (TA) you could learn something. Adult adult you see?

Well as our self proclaimed expert on the subject, perhaps you should learn how to spell Transactional.

 

After you have accomplished that, you could look up Oedipus Complex, you could learn something. Very adult, don’t you know

[The Renegade]

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

From here(yesterday) http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2018/06/two-years-into-brexit-disaster.html

 

Do you disagree with any of the sentiments ?

I read the opening statement

 

Quote

It is now two years since Britain, in a catastrophic and historically unprecedented act of national self-harm

No need to go any further.

 

History will be the judge of whether Brexit will be a catastrophic act of National self-harm.

 

Not some remainer writing a blog, or some remainers ranting on a forum.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Well as our self proclaimed expert on the subject, perhaps you should learn how to spell Transactional.

I was going to bring that up, but I did not want to see or hear Siriwhateverhisname is charging over the hill like the Lone Ranger to the rescue ??

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I was going to bring that up, but I did not want to see or hear Siriwhateverhisname is charging over the hill like the Lone Ranger to the rescue ??

 

Yup ..... or Tonto from Bristol

[billd766]

15 hours ago, The Renegade said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-march/eu-supporters-march-in-london-to-call-for-brexit-deal-referendum-idUSKBN1JJ0BG

 

Thousands ??

 

I would have thought that with it been in London it would have been nearer a million ??

 

If there are only thousands, do a quick survey and determine who many are actually British ??

 

Here is a report from the BBC News website.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44589464

 

It does not mention the numbers at this rally but it did mention that there was also anothe pro Brexit rally in the same area at the same time with though smaller numbers.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-march/eu-supporters-march-in-london-to-call-for-brexit-deal-referendum-idUSKBN1JJ0BG

 

The Reuters report failed to mention this.

 

 

[tebee]

32 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

.....

 

Remainers keep posting this, oblivious to the fact that last year ( 2017 ) the UK economy actually grew by 1.7%

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-dividend-leave-vote-wipes-440-million-a-week-from-economy-2018-6

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Yup ..... or Tonto from Bristol

Brilliant

 

Try this. It works a treat ??

 

www.banishmultiusernametrollsforever.com

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-dividend-leave-vote-wipes-440-million-a-week-from-economy-2018-6

Standard media remainer reporting that we have been reading for a long time now....  It started a few months before the referendum.

 

Admittedly, I didn't read the entire article as the 'headline points' made it very clear that it was entirely biased.  Edit - So why bother to read further?

Edited June 24, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[bristolboy]

7 minutes ago, tebee said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-dividend-leave-vote-wipes-440-million-a-week-from-economy-2018-6

compared to average EU average GDP growth of 2.7 percent

And the UK slowed down in growth while most the rest of the industrialized world was speeding up.

[transam]

11 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Yup ..... or Tonto from Bristol

Hey, careful, I am the.....

 

 

.....from Bristol....

[The Renegade]

10 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Here is a report from the BBC News website.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44589464

 

It does not mention the numbers at this rally but it did mention that there was also anothe pro Brexit rally in the same area at the same time with though smaller numbers.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-march/eu-supporters-march-in-london-to-call-for-brexit-deal-referendum-idUSKBN1JJ0BG

 

The Reuters report failed to mention this.

 

 

Bill

 

You have to laugh. Everyday this pops into my head

 

Poor wee timorous beastie's

Ohhh what a panic is in thy remainer breasties.

 

16 million voted to remain, according to remainers, another 14 million who did not vote, were closet remainers.

 

Yet less than 100,000 turn up for a rally, despite being bussed in from all over the Country.