Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Of course.

 

But then you have the problem of

 

1. Is the EU Institutions obsolete or are National Parliaments obsolete. The whole mess is caused by having both.

 

2. Too much has been invested in propping up the € by the wealthy Countries, that any deviation could cause its complete demise, which would be quickly followed by the complete demise of the EU.

 

And as much as I rip the EU Institutions, they are very much between a rock and a hard place also. They are not going to agree to anything that is potentially going to kill their gravy train.

Know what you mean, but I'm not a nationalist - I'm only against the waste/corruption of the eu.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

But German and French companies also need a trade deal with the uk.

Uh - Huh

 

And I think they will come under bi and tri-lateral deals that are separate from the EU.

[tebee]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

Or alternatively

 

There is a whole raft of things going on that the public are not aware of.

But some of the things that need to be done require hard infrastructure - and we are not building any

 

[The Renegade]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

Know what you mean, but I'm not a nationalist - I'm only against the waste/corruption of the eu.

Me neither.

 

I am against the EU Institutions.

 

Some remainers do not understand this and think this actually means '' Hates Europe ''

 

Just like '' Controlled Migration '' somehow means '' No Migration ''

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Of course.

 

But then you have the problem of

 

1. Is the EU Institutions obsolete or are National Parliaments obsolete. The whole mess is caused by having both.

 

2. Too much has been invested in propping up the € by the wealthy Countries, that any deviation could cause its complete demise, which would be quickly followed by the complete demise of the EU.

 

And as much as I rip the EU Institutions, they are very much between a rock and a hard place also. They are not going to agree to anything that is potentially going to kill their gravy train.

"And as much as I rip the EU Institutions, they are very much between a rock and a hard place also. They are not going to agree to anything that is potentially going to kill their gravy train."

 

Agree entirely.

 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, The Renegade said:

Uh - Huh

 

And I think they will come under bi and tri-lateral deals that are separate from the EU.

Not sure how this will work when companies from poorer countries realise they have been sold down the river?

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

Or alternatively

 

There is a whole raft of things going on that the public are not aware of.

Of course.

 

But I still suspect that the uk govt. is looking for the softest brexit possible.

 

Why would they have agreed to trade negotiations being at the end of the list (whilst money paid to the eu was the first item....) otherwise?

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

But some of the things that need to be done require hard infrastructure - and we are not building any

 

tebee,

 

You do not have a clue what is going on behind the scenes.

 

Within the last 4 weeks on this very thread, you declared that you are living on roughly half the French minimum wage - That equates to roughly €7500 a year.

 

Instead of spreading doom & gloom, worrying over things that are not your concern and constantly looking for anything that fits in with your negativity. Do you not think a better use of your time would be to hunt for something that raises your earnings ?

 

That is what I would be doing, if you were being truthful about your financial situation.

[dick dasterdly]

In short, the 'argument' is reduced to whether or not the brit. govt. is doing it's best to find a way around the referendum result....

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Of course.

 

But I still suspect that the uk govt. is looking for the softest brexit possible.

 

Why would they have agreed to trade negotiations being at the end of the list (whilst money paid to the eu was the first item....) otherwise?

I agree.

 

TM should never have been near Brexit. She is a remainer.

 

The whole process was f**ked right from the word go.

[The Renegade]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Not sure how this will work when companies from poorer countries realise they have been sold down the river?

It might be fair to suggest that they already know this.

 

It is offset by the money the money that they receive from the EU. Would you make a noise if you were getting free money every year ?

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

But they can't make individual deals - otherwise the customs union would be meaningless. 

Quite.   Which is why the eu is between a rock and a hard place.

[The Renegade]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Quite.   Which is why the eu is between a rock and a hard place.

Which might just be about to get a lot bigger and a lot harder

 

Quote

Bavaria’s Christian Social Union (CSU), who have destabilized Chancellor Angela Merkel’s coalition due to a major row over migrant policy, wants to introduce tighter national border controls for migrants from next week, a senior party member said.

Quote

He added the CSU was waiting to see if Merkel, who opposes tighter national controls and wants a European solution, comes back from an EU summit at the end of this week with agreement on migrant policy. He said the timetable was clear, adding: “We must act now.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-csu/merkels-bavarian-ally-we-want-tighter-migrant-border-controls-next-week-idUSKBN1JN0N5?il=0

 

There is no EU wide solution - Where does this end up ?

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Quite.   Which is why the eu is between a rock and a hard place.

if people in the CU could make individual deal we wouldn't have to leave it.

 

But stuff will still get imported/exported even without a deal - in many ways it's the single market that's more conducive to fostering trade. Trade deals have much less effect than most people think - it's the common regulatory standards  that avoid the non-tariff barriers.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

You really should at least learn about how the process works instead of just blindly repeating the lies of the crooks who sold you Brexit.  The Commissioners can only work on what has been proposed by parliament, of course parliament has effect, without them there would be nothing in the hands of the commission.

 

And no, the basic question has changed, now it is do you want to help a bunch of crooked bankers get away with the heist of the century or do you want justice?

You are wrong and I am not repeating anything from the Brexit campaign. If you want to talk about crooked bankers then look to the huge multinationals, who are all pro EU and who lobby extensively in Brussels. 

 

The EU Commission is the only body that can propose legislation.

 

The EU Parliament has to pass legislation but how often has this not happened?

 

The EU Parliament may recommend legislation to the Commission but how often has this gone through the system?

 

The reality is that at the EU Parliament is dominated by big groups mainly from Germany, France, Italy and Spain. That is why the interests of the UK are rarely represented with any success.

 

If you want to learn the actual theory it's at:

https://europa.eu/european-union/eu-law/decision-making/procedures_en

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by nauseus

[tomacht8]

"The entrepreneurs are becoming increasingly skeptical," said Alexander Börsch, chief economist of the consulting firm, in conversation with the Handelsblatt. In a previous survey, at least some managers were still full of hope that the Brexit "in the end go well" and have postponed decisions, but "confidence is dwindling," Börsch observed.

 

An assessment, which is confirmed by the news of the past days: large corporations from Germany, Europe and the US warned of the consequences, should not soon see the conditions for trade after the EU exit. Shock on the island was particularly the announcement of Airbus, in a tough Brexit without trade agreement may possibly say goodbye to the United Kingdom.

 

Of course, such warnings are not appreciated by Brexit advocates and the British government, which is why some companies are making an effort not to publicly link investment decisions to Brexit. Nevertheless, more and more companies are dealing with the consequences on their business.

72 percent of German companies operating in the UK have already prepared intensively, according to the Deloitte survey. Almost half (44 percent) have even switched the supply chain. 47 percent have put investment to the test and one third of the companies surveyed have already stopped investment projects.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Only the completely ignorant folk from those countries, the educated folk know that leaving would mean a banking collapse and decades of poverty.

The Greeks just had a decade of it already. Did you survey these educated folk?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, nauseus said:

The Greeks just had a decade of it already. Did you survey these educated folk?

Quite.

 

I'm tired of these references to 'un-educated' people - when they actually mean poor people.

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Which might just be about to get a lot bigger and a lot harder

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-csu/merkels-bavarian-ally-we-want-tighter-migrant-border-controls-next-week-idUSKBN1JN0N5?il=0

 

There is no EU wide solution - Where does this end up ?

It's up to the eu and uk govts. as to how this will 'pan out'.

 

But this thread is about brexit, and we're all waiting with baited breath (?) as to whether the uk govt. will finally start negotiating for a trade deal with the eu.....

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The EU parliament have the right to dismiss the commission by vote of no confidence, have to give their approval to all legislature coming from the commission and any MEP can request the commission to justify their work at any moment, the commission is commissioned by parliament, the commission are not in control, parliament is,

 

And I am sure you think that the Brexit vote was a vote against the crooked regime, and if only it was, but unfortunately the reality is the EU was the only thing keeping them in check, hence why there were brokers and bankers bankrolling Leave, they were not seeking to free you of their crookedness, they were seeking to free themselves of the regulations of the EU.

 

I suggest you follow the money, someone made 200 million from short selling during the referendum, and that someone also bankrolled the Leave campaign, if that was not a crooked banker then what is?  At some point the Leave brigade are going to have to face the reality that they have been had, that they have been the helpful idiots of a bunch of crooks and that they have just helped them sell our people down the river.

Point 1 - when has this ever happened - even a rumour of it? This is not the reality of the EU.

Point 2 - keep who in check? The biggest banks all support and lobby the EU?

Point 3 - get some evidence otherwise you have no point.

 

 

[Kieran00001]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The Greeks just had a decade of it already. Did you survey these educated folk?

 

A decade of what?  Pull out of the EU and their banking system collapses, they have not seen poverty like that would bring since before they joined the EEC.

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

But this thread is about brexit, and we're all waiting with baited breath (?) as to whether the uk govt. will finally start negotiating for a trade deal with the eu.....

I believe that the UK Government ( Davis ) right from the off was attempting to negotiate an FTA with the EU.

 

It is rather difficult to negotiate with anyone who insists on keeping you tied to Brussels, the ECJ and to keep handing over £ Billions for the pleasure, when you are trying to negotiate something completely different.

 

Negotiations are a 2 way street, but all I seem to see is one way traffic.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

A decade of what?  Pull out of the EU and their banking system collapses, they have not seen poverty like that would bring since before they joined the EEC.

You said poverty. I don't think they will leave either unless the EU imposes more austerity that will have the same effect.  

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, The Renegade said:

I believe that the UK Government ( Davis ) right from the off was attempting to negotiate an FTA with the EU.

 

It is rather difficult to negotiate with anyone who insists on keeping you tied to Brussels, the ECJ and to keep handing over £ Billions for the pleasure, when you are trying to negotiate something completely different.

 

Negotiations are a 2 way street, but all I seem to see is one way traffic.

Even harder when one party agrees to a agenda that is entirely against their supposed cause (i.e. the list of discussions, that for some obscure reason was agreed by the uk 'negotiators' ???)

 

How on earth did this happen?  Surely not because uk politicians are looking for a 'soft' brexit - i.e. one that means paying a similar amount of money whilst retaining all the hated eu regulations?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, nauseus said:

You said poverty. I don't think they will leave either unless the EU imposes more austerity that will have the same effect.  

Give up on this sort of non-argument, that only gives the poster a pseudo idea of relevance...

[Kieran00001]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Point 1 - when has this ever happened - even a rumour of it? This is not the reality of the EU.

Point 2 - keep who in check? The biggest banks all support and lobby the EU?

Point 3 - get some evidence otherwise you have no point.

 

 

 

When have parliament not agreed on the commissions legislature?  Pretty much every single day.

 

The EU have been bringing in rules and providing funds to prevent future crashes.  UKIP were ever so upset about that if you recall.

 

The evidence is clear, but stay in denial of the traitors if it helps you sleep at night.

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You said poverty. I don't think they will leave either unless the EU imposes more austerity that will have the same effect.  

 

Nothing like the poverty half the population lived in before the EEC, you appear to be under some delusion that the EU brought them anything but the best times they have seen in 300 years.

[ELVIS123456]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6632462/how-project-fears-dire-warnings-about-the-dangers-of-brexit-havent-come-true-two-years-on-from-the-referendum/

 

DURING the EU referendum campaign, the Remain side pumped out a non-stop stream of blood-curdling warnings about what would happen if Brits voted to quit the EU. Their dire predictions about the economy, security and trade were intended to convince voters Brexit was too much of a risk to take a gamble on. But 52 per cent of the country ignored them and backed Leave in the historic poll which took place just over two years ago. And hindsight suggests they were right to discount many of the most chilling warnings - because as time has passed, they've been proven completely wrong.

 

Half a million Brits out of work  wrong

Tax hikes and budget cuts  wrong

Squeeze on the NHS  wrong

Economy in recession  wrong

52% voted to 'take our country back"  right

The Pound has dropped by 12% - Expats will complain right

Cost of getting the country back - priceless

 

[tomacht8]

13 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6632462/how-project-fears-dire-warnings-about-the-dangers-of-brexit-havent-come-true-two-years-on-from-the-referendum/

 

DURING the EU referendum campaign, the Remain side pumped out a non-stop stream of blood-curdling warnings about what would happen if Brits voted to quit the EU. Their dire predictions about the economy, security and trade were intended to convince voters Brexit was too much of a risk to take a gamble on. But 52 per cent of the country ignored them and backed Leave in the historic poll which took place just over two years ago. And hindsight suggests they were right to discount many of the most chilling warnings - because as time has passed, they've been proven completely wrong.

 

Half a million Brits out of work  wrong

Tax hikes and budget cuts  wrong

Squeeze on the NHS  wrong

Economy in recession  wrong

52% voted to 'take our country back"  right

The Pound has dropped by 12% - Expats will complain right

Cost of getting the country back - priceless

 

Wait, the Uk is still in the EU,
and probably even longer if a transitional period is agreed.
The whole thing is not as if a light switch is turned off.
The changes are insidious and will last for years.

 

 

[nauseus]

43 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

When have parliament not agreed on the commissions legislature?  Pretty much every single day.

 

The EU have been bringing in rules and providing funds to prevent future crashes.  UKIP were ever so upset about that if you recall.

 

The evidence is clear, but stay in denial of the traitors if it helps you sleep at night.

I'm talking about passing through legislation - not total agreement - the EU parliament passes just about everything.

 

The EU have been trying to patch up their own mess. 

 

Again, what evidence?