Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[tebee]

9 hours ago, tebee said:

You realize of course, that I make my living making model trains....

 

 

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

Excellent!

This is me ( excuse yet another terrible photo of my visage )  https://www.shapeways.com/shops/tebee

[nauseus]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

It could also be, as was heavily reported, that the German company was the cheapest bid, cheapest by some £50 million! So no, nothing to do with incompetence and nothing to do with EU procurement rules.

It is to do with EU rules.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It is to do with EU rules.

Which one, the one that says the EU based company must offer the cheapest price for the bid!

[tebee]

26 minutes ago, nontabury said:

True, and I can only put it down to the incompetence of successive British governments. I wonder if this is another example of us Brits, following E.U ( procurement) rules, while others skirt around them.

It is to do with EU competitive tendering rules. Governments must accept the cheapest the cheapest tender for equivalent work, to prevent favouring home country companies.

French, on the other hand, do the work inhouse by the government printing agency, so avoid this rule, but the UK  privatized the stationery office  who would have printed them in days gone by.

If you think leaving the EU would help the WTO has a similar rule. 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by tebee
dyslexia

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

It is to do with EU competitive tendering rules. Governments must accept the cheapest the cheapest tender for equivalent work, to prevent favouring home country companies.

French, on the other hand, do the work inhouse by the government printing agency, so avoid this rule, but the UK  privatized the stationery office  would would have printed them in days gone by.

If you think leaving the EU would help the WTO has a similar rule. 

 

 

What are the EU rules regarding final price in relation to tender price?

[simoh1490]

"Governments must accept the cheapest the cheapest tender".

 

Don't worry, we'll change all that once we Brexit, we'll make sure we get the company we want regardless of the cost, it's only British! The banks will have a field day, in addition to loans for houses, cars, holidays and school fees they can start to offer passport loans too! 

[tebee]

Previously on the Right: opening up public procurement, compulsory competitive tendering!

 

And: privatize HMSO!  No more in-house state production!

 

Now, as logical consequence of the above: contract put out to competitive tender.

 

Outrage! Boo!

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[Kieran00001]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

You forgot to mention the BRITISH fishing industry suffered the highest number of redundancies. on our entry to the EEC.

As for investment, well that must be why the fishing industry, at two of our main fishing post was decimated.

 

It makes me ashamed of my fellow countrymen, who are prepared to see, in fact some would say rejoice, at the thought of our own people losing their jobs, just so selfish remainers may have the opportunity of working in the E.U.

  

 

The industry has evolved, the boats are bigger, it has happened right across the EU, the numbers of employees and the size of fleet have declined at a similar rate in all countries in the EU.  Yes, some ports have really suffered, it is true, but others have boomed, that is also true, and the industry as a whole is making the highest profit it has ever made.  

And my questioning whether the UK will remain the highest profiting fishing industry in the EU post Brexit is not rejoice, it is me concerned for their jobs, something that you blindly assume will increase with Brexit.  You could feel ashamed that you are willing to put others jobs on the line for a selfish notion of independence from Europe.

[Kieran00001]

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Remainers love to pontificate about the EU and it's benefits to the UK fishing industry. The one voice they always ignore is that of the UK fishing industry itself. Anyone who takes notice of the UK fishing industry knows that it is relishing a future outside the EU's control. And these are the people who really know and really matter on this issue.

 

Some fishermen, others are deeply concerned for what will happen.  They are all in different situations, some are suffering while others are not, and there are of course those who have seen their boat building industry funded by EU grants, their fish markets rebuilt by EU funding and their practice protected by EU law, those fishermen are worried and rightfully because their boat building is not profitable, because the UK has never cared if they needed to travel further to market and so lose their much needed profit, and because the UK has actually recently voted to ban their practice despite the EU overruling them and saving it.  So before you speak for fishermen as a whole, you could consider at least that they are all actually different people who all deserve their voices to be heard in this matter, but of course Brexiteers prefer to only listen to people who promote their agenda for them don't they?

[aright]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Ha ha, the situation is indeed truly absurd! 800 years ago we didn't have peasants squabbling over where to position the comma's and what size of feather to use as a quill! And using olde English in your reply doesn't make your answer any more credible or believable.

Pure deflection!

I ask a simple question like "When did people of all persuasions not want a say in their future?", give you a concrete example from the past, when they did, and you answer it with an incomprehensible commas and quills argument. Are you ok?

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Remainers love to pontificate about the EU and it's benefits to the UK fishing industry. The one voice they always ignore is that of the UK fishing industry itself. Anyone who takes notice of the UK fishing industry knows that it is relishing a future outside the EU's control. And these are the people who really know and really matter on this issue.

Yes, of course they do, thinking it will give them the old freedom back to do as they please.

 

What they're forgetting is that present limitations have not so much to do with the EU but with depleting fish stock worldwide due to overfishing and on a consistent basis losing eye on environment and sustainability. 

And yes, the British fishery fleet was hit hard in the past, because they were lagging behind their more modern counterparts.

[simoh1490]

Some posters have a model in their minds of almost every British seaport having its own small fleet of cobbles or trawlers and the boats coming in the early morning to offload their catch, just like it was when they were kids. That nostalgic view is only one element of the Brexiteers problematic mindset. Many of them are looking for their very own version of the reversion to norm., a step back in time on a whole range of fronts that includes the return of blue passports, farmers growing their crops of choice and small corner shops to replace all the supermarkets, the high street will flourish once again and there'll be maypoll dancing twice a week. 

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, aright said:

Pure deflection!

I ask a simple question like "When did people of all persuasions not want a say in their future?", give you a concrete example from the past, when they did, and you answer it with an incomprehensible commas and quills argument. Are you ok?

Deflection, the most abused over used word in the Brexiteer vocabulary, used most frequently when a response doesn't fit with their argument - I wasn't expecting that, I'll call it deflection!

 

Am I OK you ask. So kind you should enquire. Yes, I'm always very well when watching Brexiteers try to manage their way out of self dug deep holes.

 

I suspect many people over time will have wanted a say in their future although in times gone by I'm certain that would have been considerably less than the number today. In times gone by there was an acceptance that democracy meant voting for a party and letting them get on with it, they had the education, networks, experience and wherewithal to do the job far better than Fred Smith at number 27, that's why we voted for them they would say.

 

However, since the turn of the century we see only about 60%-65% of the population bother to vote yet almost everyone, regardless of whether they voted or not, wants a say in how government does its job, everyone has become an overseer in that respect and everyone has become knowledgeable about everything - what we have today is real-time management of government by elements of the population. I don't think democracy can function given that model, at a minimum, it can't function very well and what we're seeing with Brexit is evidence of that. Brexiteers like to cry democracy in order to defend their corner whereas in the real world they might realise they are not exercising democracy as they are democratic bullying over a principle - it doesn't matter what argument you come up with it will still be undemocratic they will say, poohey I say!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

 

This is me ( excuse yet another terrible photo of my visage )  https://www.shapeways.com/shops/tebee

Interesting! Are you printing these? I'm a Marklin HO fan

 

This is off topic so stop now to avoid Moderator trouble!

[Grouse]

23 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Deflection, the most abused over used word in the Brexiteer vocabulary, used most frequently when a response doesn't fit with their argument - I wasn't expecting that, I'll call it deflection!

 

Am I OK you ask. So kind you should enquire. Yes, I'm always very well when watching Brexiteers try to manage their way out of self dug deep holes.

 

I suspect many people over time will have wanted a say in their future although in times gone by I'm certain that would have been considerably less than the number today. In times gone by there was an acceptance that democracy meant voting for a party and letting them get on with it, they had the education, networks, experience and wherewithal to do the job far better than Fred Smith at number 27, that's why we voted for them they would say.

 

However, since the turn of the century we see only about 60%-65% of the population bother to vote yet almost everyone, regardless of whether they voted or not, wants a say in how government does its job, everyone has become an overseer in that respect and everyone has become knowledgeable about everything - what we have today is real-time management of government by elements of the population. I don't think democracy can function given that model, at a minimum, it can't function very well and what we're seeing with Brexit is evidence of that. Brexiteers like to cry democracy in order to defend their corner whereas in the real world they might realise they are not exercising democracy as they are democratic bullying over a principle - it doesn't matter what argument you come up with it will still be undemocratic they will say, poohey I say!

Tocqueville to a T

[Kieran00001]

35 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, of course they do, thinking it will give them the old freedom back to do as they please.

 

What they're forgetting is that present limitations have not so much to do with the EU but with depleting fish stock worldwide due to overfishing and on a consistent basis losing eye on environment and sustainability. 

And yes, the British fishery fleet was hit hard in the past, because they were lagging behind their more modern counterparts.

 

Yes, this has little to do with the EU, of course the quotas will remain as we do not want to cause extinctions of species that our fishermen depend on and which we enjoy eating, so they will have to continue.  And it is interesting just which fishermen have been vocal in Brexit, Farages Thames flotilla was headed by the infamous Christina S, the boat caught in the Black Fish Scam in 2012, pumping illegal fish ashore through underground pipes and using rigged scales to sell far beyond their quota.  It is these unscrupulous types who some British people seem to think represent the British fishing industry as a whole, when really they have only ever represented themselves as they selfishly made a profit off reducing fish stocks for all fishermen.

 

 

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Tocqueville to a T

Dundee's going, Tocqueville, is that in Wales. 

[BigC]

Due to too many illegal and legal migrants. Given passports out like giving or sweats. Plus May the remainer wants a Brexit with the same rules as when we were within the EU which is a disgrace. We vote out. Put means out. Close customs union single market and making new deals with our allys in the US rather than disrespecting Donald trump and making enemies with the most power gik enemy in the world. Easy to kick out Russian diplomats without evidence but not so ease to kick our religious hate groups and jail hero like Britain First just for speaking Boris called Russia like nazi Germany England is more like nazi Germany can speak no freedom of speech. People with religious similar nazi style beliefs are allowed to do so and openly 

 

comedians getting locked up for jokes similar to Jon clease jokes. My old country is dead thanks to corrupt nazi politicians May Corbyn Saudi Khan

 

not so long ago we had someone with a non british name as embasitor in Bangkok

 

i feel less of a foreigner in Thailand than I do in UK

 

[BigC]

Trying to push people to sign for this this is wrong 

[tebee]

40 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Interesting! Are you printing these? I'm a Marklin HO fan

 

This is off topic so stop now to avoid Moderator trouble!

I'll bring it back on topic a little - I used to have a business selling the OO9 range off there online( mostly eBay) back to the UK but brexit and the 20% fallin the Pound killed that off. My sales fell 70% in the six months post-referendum. I bought it in $ and live in France so my expenses in Euros so UK price had to increase.  

Now I survive off what people buy directly off that site (+ we have some rental property) It's not a fortune, but it would be enough on it's own for me to live in Thai and it's passive income. Luckily I have a wife who is a doctor so we are doing more than surviving.

Brexit has been a bad idea for me and I am absolutely convinced will be so for the rest of the country. 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, BigC said:

Due to too many illegal and legal migrants. Given passports out like giving or sweats.

Hardly a problem caused by EU?

 

Nevertheless, under the United Kingdom's immigration arrangements Commonwealth citizens enjoy certain advantages:

• Commonwealth citizens born before 1 January 1983 may by virtue of having a parent born in the United Kingdom and Islands have the right of abode therein – such persons are exempt from all immigration control.
• Commonwealth citizens with a grandparent born in the United Kingdom and Islands may be admitted for up to five years on this basis, and thereafter be granted indefinite leave to remain.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_citizen

[aright]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Deflection, the most abused over used word in the Brexiteer vocabulary, used most frequently when a response doesn't fit with their argument - I wasn't expecting that, I'll call it deflection!

 

Am I OK you ask. So kind you should enquire. Yes, I'm always very well when watching Brexiteers try to manage their way out of self dug deep holes.

 

I suspect many people over time will have wanted a say in their future although in times gone by I'm certain that would have been considerably less than the number today. In times gone by there was an acceptance that democracy meant voting for a party and letting them get on with it, they had the education, networks, experience and wherewithal to do the job far better than Fred Smith at number 27, that's why we voted for them they would say.

 

However, since the turn of the century we see only about 60%-65% of the population bother to vote yet almost everyone, regardless of whether they voted or not, wants a say in how government does its job, everyone has become an overseer in that respect and everyone has become knowledgeable about everything - what we have today is real-time management of government by elements of the population. I don't think democracy can function given that model, at a minimum, it can't function very well and what we're seeing with Brexit is evidence of that. Brexiteers like to cry democracy in order to defend their corner whereas in the real world they might realise they are not exercising democracy as they are democratic bullying over a principle - it doesn't matter what argument you come up with it will still be undemocratic they will say, poohey I say!

A bigger, unconstructed, more expansive, more squealing, deflection. I will regard my small question as too big for you. Good morning!

[Orac]

"Governments must accept the cheapest the cheapest tender".
 
Don't worry, we'll change all that once we Brexit, we'll make sure we get the company we want regardless of the cost, it's only British! The banks will have a field day, in addition to loans for houses, cars, holidays and school fees they can start to offer passport loans too! 

No we won’t - it would come under WTO rules as set out here

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/gproc_e/gp_gpa_e.htm

The U.K. Passport Office is covered as part of the Home Office and has as threshold for tenders under annex 1 where the value exceeds SDR.130,000.

[transam]

56 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Hardly a problem caused by EU?

 

Nevertheless, under the United Kingdom's immigration arrangements Commonwealth citizens enjoy certain advantages:

• Commonwealth citizens born before 1 January 1983 may by virtue of having a parent born in the United Kingdom and Islands have the right of abode therein – such persons are exempt from all immigration control.
• Commonwealth citizens with a grandparent born in the United Kingdom and Islands may be admitted for up to five years on this basis, and thereafter be granted indefinite leave to remain.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_citizen

But no more skint Romanian, Polish and all the rest of the EU spongers..

 

Yabadaba dooo........(Hopefully)

[Kieran00001]

18 minutes ago, transam said:

But no more skint Romanian, Polish and all the rest of the EU spongers..

 

Yabadaba dooo........(Hopefully)

 

 

Except, EU migrants make us a net profit whereas migrants from outside the EU make us a net loss.

[StreetCowboy]

2 hours ago, BigC said:

Due to too many illegal and legal migrants. Given passports out like giving or sweats. Plus May the remainer wants a Brexit with the same rules as when we were within the EU which is a disgrace. We vote out. Put means out. Close customs union single market and making new deals with our allys in the US rather than disrespecting Donald trump and making enemies with the most power gik enemy in the world. Easy to kick out Russian diplomats without evidence but not so ease to kick our religious hate groups and jail hero like Britain First just for speaking Boris called Russia like nazi Germany England is more like nazi Germany can speak no freedom of speech. People with religious similar nazi style beliefs are allowed to do so and openly 

 

comedians getting locked up for jokes similar to Jon clease jokes. My old country is dead thanks to corrupt nazi politicians May Corbyn Saudi Khan

 

not so long ago we had someone with a non british name as embasitor in Bangkok

 

i feel less of a foreigner in Thailand than I do in UK

 

Let's hope the standard of literacy has improved.

[transam]

30 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

Except, EU migrants make us a net profit whereas migrants from outside the EU make us a net loss.

You obviously never watch the Brit "live" tecorded police programs and seen what is going on on the UK streets. All on YouTube, been watching them near every night for a couple of months, what an eye opener...

 

Oh, and the 500,000 folk that have been "lost" in the UK, not paying tax and insurance that are actually surviving on their cash in hand doing Brits out of a job..

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

You obviously never watch the Brit "live" tecorded police programs and seen what is going on on the UK streets. All on YouTube, been watching them near every night for a couple of months, what an eye opener...

 

Oh, and the 500,000 folk that have been "lost" in the UK, not paying tax and insurance that are actually surviving on their cash in hand doing Brits out of a job..

Are those people EU citizens? If they are not, how is this not UK's own internal problem caused by UK politicians?

 

Which are the companies hiring these people without paying taxes? Are those also owned by the 'lost' people in the UK?

 

I'd prefer you'd deal with your own internal issues, without blaming EU for your own failures.

 

 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Are those people EU citizens? If they are not, how is this not UK's own internal problem caused by UK politicians?

 

Which are the companies hiring these people without paying taxes? Are those also owned by the 'lost' people in the UK?

 

I'd prefer you'd deal with your own internal issues, without blaming EU for your own failures.

 

 

The ones that can walk in....

 

UK failures...55555....The EU was the cause of the influx of dodgy folk from the EU...Brexit will I hope cure that...

 

You worry about your own countries internal issues, the UK's has nothing to do with you chap...