Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

[webfact]

Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

By Markus Wacket and Ilona Wissenbach

 

Greenpeace environmental activists protest in front of Germany's Federal Administrative Court before it decides whether German law provides a legal basis for cities to ban diesel cars to help reduce air pollution, in Leipzig, Germany February 27, 2018. The placards read: "Health risk." REUTERS/Fabrizio Bensch

 

LEIPZIG/FRANKFURT, Germany (Reuters) - German cities can ban the most heavily polluting diesel cars from their streets, a court ruled on Tuesday, a move that could accelerate a shift away from the combustion engine and force manufacturers to pay to improve exhaust systems.

 

The court said Stuttgart, which styles itself the birthplace of the modern automobile and is home to Mercedes-maker Daimler, should consider gradually imposing a year-round ban for older diesel models, while Duesseldorf should also think about curbs.

 

Many other German cities exceed European Union limits on nitrogen oxide (NOx), known to cause respiratory disease. After the ruling, the northern city of Hamburg said it would start to implement limits on diesel vehicles from the end of April.

 

There has been a global backlash against diesel-engine cars since leading German carmaker Volkswagen  admitted in 2015 to cheating U.S. exhaust tests. The scandal has spread across the industry and boosted investment in electric vehicles.

 

Paris, Madrid, Mexico City and Athens have said they plan to ban diesel vehicles from city centres by 2025, while the mayor of Copenhagen wants to ban new diesel cars from entering the city as soon as next year. France and Britain will ban new petrol and diesel cars by 2040.

 

Bans in the home of some of the world's biggest automakers are a further blow for the sector, and an embarrassment for Chancellor Angela Merkel's government, which has faced criticism for its close ties to the industry.

 

Germany has long promoted diesel to help cut carbon dioxide emissions and meet climate change goals, but the country now fears a shift away from the combustion engine could endanger hundreds of thousands of jobs.

 

MIXED REACTION

 

The ruling was praised by environmental groups but angered many politicians and business lobbies who said millions of drivers might end up unable to use or sell vehicles they bought in good faith.

 

"Driving bans have a massive impact on our ownership rights, on mobility and on our profession," said Hans Peter Wollseifer, president of the association of German tradesmen. "The carmakers are to blame for the diesel problem, not us tradesmen."

 

The VDA auto industry lobby took comfort from the fact the court had not insisted on bans. "It is a rejection of general driving bans ... They must be proportional and only considered as a last resort," the VDA's Matthias Wissmann said in a statement.

 

Merkel said the government would discuss with regions and municipalities how to proceed, while her ministers said they still hoped bans could be averted by steps to bolster public transport and get automakers to improve emissions systems.

 

"We must do everything possible to prevent the loss of personal freedom and the reduction in value of cars," Transport Minister Christian Schmidt told a news conference.

 

Sales of diesel cars have been falling fast in Europe since the Volkswagen scandal, with fears of driving bans sending demand sharply lower in Germany in the last year.

 

"CLEAN AIR"

 

The ruling by the country's highest federal administrative court came after German states had appealed against bans imposed by local courts in Stuttgart and Duesseldorf in cases brought by environmental group DUH over poor air quality.

 

"This is a great day for clean air in Germany," DUH managing director Juergen Resch said.

 

"This is a debacle for the policies of the grand coalition, which has sided with the auto industry," Resch added, referring to the ruling coalition of conservatives and Social Democrats that Merkel hopes to renew in the coming weeks.

 

The court on Tuesday ordered Stuttgart and Duesseldorf to amend their anti-pollution plans, saying city bans could be implemented even without nationwide rules.

 

"It will not be easy to implement," Stuttgart mayor Fritz Kuhn told a news conference, adding the regional government would probably agree a new plan within six months.

 

Germany's police union warned it did not have capacity to enforce any bans.

 

UPGRADES REQUIRED

 

Cars that meet Euro-4 emissions standards could be banned from Stuttgart from next January, while Euro-5 vehicles should not be banned until Sept. 1, 2019, four years after the introduction of the latest Euro-6 standard. Tradesmen and some residents should be exempted, the court added.

 

Environment Minister Barbara Hendricks said bans could still be avoided if automakers agree to pay to upgrade the exhaust cleaning systems of older diesels.

 

"The problem was caused by carmakers and we should not release them from their responsibility," she said.

 

Of the 15 million diesel cars on Germany's roads, only 2.7 million have Euro-6 technology. Evercore ISI has estimated that upgrading the exhaust cleaning of just the Euro-5 fleet could cost up to 14.5 billion euros ($17.9 billion).

 

"By the time these vehicles face the risk of being banned from certain cities, the industry, together with Berlin, will have found solutions to offer practical hardware updates and attractive scrapping schemes," Evercore ISI analysts said.

 

The government has begun work on legal changes to permit driving bans on certain routes on an emergency basis, transport ministry documents seen by Reuters showed.

 

It is also considering making public transport free in cities suffering from poor air quality.

 

($1 = 0.8118 euros)

 

(Additional reporting by Andreas Cremer, Maria Sheahan and Tom Sims; Writing by Emma Thomasson; Editing by Keith Weir and Mark Potter)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-28

[MaxYakov]

As one who believes gas and diesel internal combustion engine  use should be limited to only inter-city transport vehicles, I would say such a ban would be a step in the right direction. Comes from my having to breathe (routinely through a filter) highly-polluted Bangkok air. http://aqicn.org/city/bangkok/

[Jonmarleesco]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

'... Hamburg said it would start to implement limits on diesel vehicles from the end of April.'

 

Paris, Madrid, Mexico City and Athens have said they plan to ban diesel vehicles from city centres by 2025, while the mayor of Copenhagen wants to ban new diesel cars from entering the city as soon as next year. France and Britain will ban new petrol and diesel cars by 2040.

Only in Britain. Every other country is looking at between now and 2025 (Paris is in France, isn't it?). The U.K.? Well, it's happy to aim for fifteen years after that; then only new vehicles. It makes the BMA's farcical eleven-year prediction positively glowing.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, Jonmarleesco said:

Only in Britain. Every other country is looking at between now and 2025 (Paris is in France, isn't it?). The U.K.? Well, it's happy to aim for fifteen years after that; then only new vehicles. It makes the BMA's farcical eleven-year prediction positively glowing.

An exclusion zone is scheduled to be put in place in Glasgow city centre by the end of this year then extended to Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee by 2020. Sales of diesel cars are planned to stop in Scotland by 2032.

[mogandave]

This is great news! Get the filthy things off the road.




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[VocalNeal]

Let's all drive electric cars and move the pollution to the countryside and the industrial estates?

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

Let's all drive electric cars and move the pollution to the countryside and the industrial estates?

Electricity doesn't have to be generated from fossil fuels.

[sanemax]

22 hours ago, Jonmarleesco said:

Only in Britain. Every other country is looking at between now and 2025 (Paris is in France, isn't it?). The U.K.? Well, it's happy to aim for fifteen years after that; then only new vehicles. It makes the BMA's farcical eleven-year prediction positively glowing.

Paris , Madrid , Mexico City and Athens are all cities , the U.K. is a Country .

Some U.K. cities are also banning petrol/diesel cars in the near future and the aim is to extend that Country-wide by 2040

[KhunBENQ]

27 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Let's all drive electric cars and move the pollution to the countryside and the industrial estates?

And do the math about electric cars.

Millions of electric cars and you will need more electric power than installed in most countries.

A frequently used family car consumes more energy than the complete rest of the household (heating excluded).

 

The whole mess was started by introducing an EU wide limit for particulate matter (PM₁₀) of 50 µg/m³.

Diesel cars always were a source of PM.

So the manufactures manipulated them to lower PM, resulting in higher nitrogen oxide which is considered more harmful than PM.

 

And if you live in Thailand and are concerned about these EU PM and nitrogen oxide limits exceeded, you better leave quickly.

 

About the PM: the measures to reduce PM from cars was very successful, just that no significant improvement of air quality was achieved. A result from Berlin not published too loud.

Edited March 1, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[puck2]

.........

Bans in the home of some of the world's biggest automakers are a further blow for the sector, and an embarrassment for Chancellor Angela Merkel's government, which has faced criticism for its close ties to the industry.

…....................

 

Since the VW-Diesel-Scandal had gotten abroad the German government under Merkel was very silent. Specially, her transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt (2013-2017) failed to do something relevant against this criminal trick. He seemed to be and acted like a lobbyist of the car industry.

 

Even today the Merkel government tries to lade the consequences on the shoulders of the customers, and not on the those of the culprits. And that's very sad because the diesel cars have lost their value. It's hard or nearly impossible to sell them.

 

Now there are many problems connected to the car ban. Imagine you cannot sell your diesel car, what would to do (in the future), if

• you want to see someone in a city with a ban, whereas your diesel car is not banned in your own city/village

• the people – especially from the middle class – need their cars for the job, i.e. plumbers, craftsmen in general, doctors, etc.

• the taxi is a diesel car

• public diesel transport/traffic cars are not allowed to leave a banned city to a remote village

 

The list goes on. The government/cities and probably the courts will be very busy in the next years.

 

[mogandave]

Not to worry, some friends of the administration will set up centers that will bring the older diesels into “compliance” for about $10k a piece and everyone will get subsidies.

Problem solved.


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[mogandave]

Let's all drive electric cars and move the pollution to the countryside and the industrial estates?

No, it’s all going to be wind, wave and solar dontchaknow...

[transam]

When folk are told to "walk" the.....

[VocalNeal]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Electricity doesn't have to be generated from fossil fuels.

I quite agree.

 

But most of the rare earth mining etc is in the countryside and the factories are still in industrial estates. 

 

I will be impressed when a solar panel factory starts up and gets all the power necessary for its production from solar power. Or maybe a wind turbine production facility gets all its power from wind turbines. Or a mix there of...

 

At this point there is insufficient power generated in , say, the US for everyone to have an electric car.  European countries I don't know if they have enough surplus.

 

For the most part Canada probably has the best infrastructure for electric cars as for most of the country every motel has outside 220V receptacles for each room and a lot or work places have receptacles in the parking lots. But I don't know how lithium batteries perform at low temperatures.

 

 

Of course maybe personal transportation is not part of the grand scheme for the future? Who knows?

Or maybe ban all cars from cities? I mean Shanghai has banned motorbikes! 

 

But back to the topic. I'm not sure exactly how gasoline cars are better for the city than diesel. 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by VocalNeal

[mogandave]

 
Of course maybe personal transportation is not part of the grand scheme for the future? Who knows?
 
 

It will need to be reserved for the rich and party elites. The environment can’t stand everyone driving.

[Grouse]

Once again, the great unwashed don't understand the issues so it's "baby and bath water "again. BUT they are the majority and MUST BE RIGHT. Modern diesels for long haul. Battery powered cars for inner city which REQUIRES nuclear. The uninformed masses don't do sums. 

[mogandave]

Once again, the great unwashed don't understand the issues so it's "baby and bath water "again. BUT they are the majority and MUST BE RIGHT. Modern diesels for long haul. Battery powered cars for inner city which REQUIRES nuclear. The uninformed masses don't do sums. 

Dude, it’s all about solar. The governments just need to confiscate and develop the patents the greedy oil companies have bought up...

[Grouse]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

Dude, it’s all about solar. The governments just need to confiscate and develop the patents the greedy oil companies have bought up...

 

No. Do the maths. You're wrong.

 

More fission now, fusion in 50 years. Use solar for lights and pumps. For heat and tractive effort, you need the heavy stuff.

 

Do you know thermodynamics? 

[mogandave]

No. Do the maths. You're wrong.
 
More fission now, fusion in 50 years. Use solar for lights and pumps. For heat and tractive effort, you need the heavy stuff.
 
Do you know thermodynamics? 

You want to poison the earth? We need clean and renewable. Solar and wind.

We’ve had sailboats for thousands of years, time for sail cars. (Not to be confused with car sales)

[mogandave]

No. Do the maths. You're wrong.
 
More fission now, fusion in 50 years. Use solar for lights and pumps. For heat and tractive effort, you need the heavy stuff.
 
Do you know thermodynamics? 

You ever heard of Chernobyl?

[Grouse]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

You want to poison the earth? We need clean and renewable. Solar and wind.

We’ve had sailboats for thousands of years, time for sail cars. (Not to be confused with car sales)

 

No need to poison anyone.

 

Do the job right. The current generation (sic) are supremely safe and reliable. If you want a mathematical explanation PM me; it's not appropriate here

[maximillian]

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Electricity doesn't have to be generated from fossil fuels.

Solar, water, wind, geo-termal and nuclear power plants, then ?   Poor Exxon, poor Chevron, poor....

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

 

You ever heard of Chernobyl?
 

 

Of course. What is your point? You don't have one because you don't understand the issue. Back down

[mogandave]

No need to poison anyone.
 
Do the job right. The current generation (sic) are supremely safe and reliable. If you want a mathematical explanation PM me; it's not appropriate here

Yeah right.

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, maximillian said:

Solar, water, wind, geo-termal and nuclear power plants, then ?   Poor Exxon, poor Chevron, poor....

Yes, all of them. But for the next 50 years you need fission for base load. Transmission is the next big issue

Edited March 1, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

 

Yeah right.

 

No, seriously. Physics is my line, or was

[mogandave]

Of course. What is your point? You don't have one because you don't understand the issue. Back down

 

So explain it, I have time.

 

That’s what I thought

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

So explain it, I have time.

 

That’s what I thought

Oh dear...

 

Consider this. A solar Panel may have an efficiency of 200W/m2. A modest car may have an output of 100kW. Assuming 100% efficiency, you would need 500m2 of photovoltaic cells! Big car.

 

So now we're into battery technology and cars maybe double their weight in cells.

 

How quickly do you want to charge your car for say 500km range?

 

No, you need nuclear right now. I would price fossil fuels out of the market but the usual renewables are not there yet

 

Transmission lines are key