Is their a social prejudice amongst Thais toward Thai/Caucasian marriages?

[JimmyJ]

A  man on NPR radio said that while in South Korea he was in the subway and stood near a Korean woman. She turned around, saw this man who is black, screamed and ran off.

 

This reminded me of an ex-girlfriend who is Caucasian and when I met her she was divorcing her Chinese American (born in the USA) husband.

At that time their 2 Eurasian children were very young.

She told me that they would go to a Dim Sum restaurant in LA's Chinatown, and the Chinese would stare at this family and she could feel hostility and see them commenting.

And she witnessed this at other times when they were in Chinese businesses.

 

It seems to be very different in Thailand - Although there's lots of criticism of Thais on TVF, and many posting here state they have Thai wives, I have yet to read of anyone citing this issue.

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by JimmyJ

[allane]

In Thailand, everything comes down to money.  Since he virtually always earns/has far more money than her, no problem at all ! And if she is young enough to be still in her child-bearing years, luk-kreunng (halfbreed) babies are considered very beautiful/handsome, and can have doors swing open for them in modelling, acting and singing.

[poanoi]

that is not my impression. for instance they genuinely think mix thai/white children 

are the best looking children, and would like to breed for this reason alone

[Rc2702]

Interesting topic and if true what I have read here there is government supported prejudice too.

 

1. Mixed thai/farang cannot be army officer?

 

I would be interested to hear people's first hand experience on this topic about prejudice towards mixed thai children.

[Gecko123]

If by "prejudice" you mean "preconceived judgment or opinion" the answer is that everyone is prejudiced to one degree or another. There are going to be people on this thread who will tell you that Thais are the most prejudiced and racist people on earth, and there will also be a large contingent chiming in to tell you that amongst the enlightened, well-educated and affluent Thais they associate with there is no prejudice. The truth is somewhere in between. I don't think you're going to run into virulent hostility towards you as a foreigner, whatever the color of your skin or whether you're single or have a Thai family.

 

However,  many Thais harbor the attitude that a Thai woman in a relationship with a foreign man likely met in some type of entertainment venue. This is especially true if there is a large age difference between the man and the woman. If the couple comes across as having a reasonable degree of chemistry, most Thais will soon accept you and your partner for what you are. I will hasten to add however that lately the current government has made a big effort to change Thailand's reputation as a sex tourism destination, and in the process has reawakened attitudes which stigmatize Thai women - foreign man couples to some degree.

 

Acceptance of Eurasian children in Thai society in Thai society is potentially a very touch subject to many, and I will tread lightly here. The reigning Miss Thailand is a luk kreung with very caucasian features. I would venture to say that in today's world anybody with photogenic features and exceptional charisma is going to be embraced. Obviously kids that are less photogenic or charismatic are probably going to be embraced to a lesser extent. Through being a teacher and also raising a school-aged step-child, I've had occasion to observe how Eurasian children are accepted in Thai schools. I would say, all things being equal, they are fairly well accepted.

 

While obviously the West offers many educational and occupational advantages to a mixed-race child, speaking strictly in terms of the extent the society provides a socially inclusive environment (where the child feels they belong to the community), I would say that Thailand has a lot to offer. A mixed-race child who happens to be blessed with incredible good looks probably isn't going to have to worry about social acceptance. But for a mixed race kid with average looks, maybe average intelligence, the possibility that they might feel more at home in Thailand than in a typical setting in the West is worth considering.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Gecko123

[seajae]

over the years I have noticed that some of the older people, especially women tend to give us unpleasant looks when we are out together.I find most accept us as a couple and have no problems with me at all, we get invited to many functions etc all the time so it cant be too bad. Strangely enough my step daughter is the one that gets a bit funny if we hold hands or I kiss my wife goodbye etc but its better that the slaps I used to get when we were first married, being with a farang and showing your feelings are two totally different things. For some reason some thais dislike showing affection to your partner, guess you cant help small minds

[dotpoom]

Yes, .....jealousy....everyone of my wife's friends are constantly asking me to find them a farang man.

[BobbyL]

The stigma will always be there with a 20 year old bar girl and an old boy double or more her age. It would be the same in any country. 

 

I think with younger couples here it is now pretty normal, just like it would be anywhere. You only have to go out on a weekend to see lots of younger foreign males who live and work here with very attractive (and normal) looking Thai women. You will always get some simpletons that will never believe it though. 

[Emster23]

I'd say there is prejudice against mixed marriages and prejudice towards mixed marriages. That's been my experience anyway

[prakhonchai nick]

53 minutes ago, Emster23 said:

I'd say there is prejudice against mixed marriages and prejudice towards mixed marriages. That's been my experience anyway

Just live together -do not marry. Best way to go ..Saves on sinsod too!

[Gecko123]

2 hours ago, dotpoom said:

Yes, .....jealousy....everyone of my wife's friends are constantly asking me to find them a farang man.

Over the years I have found that the vast majority of these overtures are little more than whimsical musings on the part of women who mainly see foreign men as a ticket to easy street. I really encourage anyone who thinks otherwise to dig beyond the initial inquiry to see how serious they are and what the underlying motivation is.

 

Many of these women are already happily involved with someone or married. Fantasizing outloud about marrying a foreign guy is a parlor game that Thai women sometimes play just to amuse themselves, not much different from musing about what you would do if you won the lottery. If they are genuinely interested, I think you'll find that 95% of the time it's because it's seen as a ticket out of poverty. Were a foreigner to suddenly land in their lap, many would struggle (language skills, cultural familiarity, interpersonal compatibility, physical attraction) to adapt to such a relationship. I just think these casual overtures need to be taken with a grain of salt and aren't necessarily indicative of prevailing attitudes towards foreigners.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Gecko123

[Thaidream]

I agree completely with Gecko and that has been my experience also.  The Thai attitude towards Thai Foreign marriages has changed for the better through the years.  When I first married a Thai lady almost 48 years ago there were very few of us and we were constantly stared  at  as 'curiosities' and often commented about and not necessarily in a polite way.

 

These type of marriages are no longer an oddity and mostly ignored unless there is some type of interaction between others-business; restaurants etc and almost always very polite. Thais have their own personal opinions about the comportment and attitude of foreigners but once they have a positive personal interaction- it has always ended  pleasantly for me and mine. Thais like courtesy -and give the same back.

[KMartinHandyman]

I think foreigners overthink their presence in Thailand. The novelty of foreigners has long passed except in the most remote back paddy villages and with little children who’ve never seen a farang. The only prejudice I perceive is being seen as a chance to make an extra 5 or 10 baht by not speaking Thai and being able to negotiate a bag of mushrooms or 3 watermelons for 70 baht instead of 80.

[Alphy]

I am afraid if you are of a slight tanned pigmentation and I am talking from my personal experiences, Asia lives in the dark ages with huge attitudes towards citizens of colour from across the globe. I am a Brit of Asian DNA and have been in and out Malaysia Thailand and Cambodia. I am always treated with suspicion as I have a London accent. When I say I from England the expectancy is why am I black so I cannot be from a European Country? Ignorance, a lack of Education and perhaps lacking in travel skills, I am not sure which but you cannot live your life around their perceptions so it is what it is so enjoy what's on offer and discard the negative. Peace!

[Gecko123]

7 minutes ago, Alphy said:

I am afraid if you are of a slight tanned pigmentation and I am talking from my personal experiences, Asia lives in the dark ages with huge attitudes towards citizens of colour from across the globe. I am a Brit of Asian DNA and have been in and out Malaysia Thailand and Cambodia. I am always treated with suspicion as I have a London accent. When I say I from England the expectancy is why am I black so I cannot be from a European Country? Ignorance, a lack of Education and perhaps lacking in travel skills, I am not sure which but you cannot live your life around their perceptions so it is what it is so enjoy what's on offer and discard the negative. Peace!

You're not saying a dark complected Asian (or for that matter African) is subjected to more racial prejudice in SE Asia than in England, are you? Almost all western racial minorities I've spoken to report just the opposite. And about this attitude that Thais think everyone in England is white, plenty of Thais know a Thai who has moved to England, don't they? Many Thais couldn't find England on a map, but you'd have us believe that they have pre-set ideas about the demographic makeup of the country? Glad you posted, but not sure if your observations hold water.

[sawadee1947]

My friend's daughter is a "mixed" girl of 16. She plays in holidays and on weekend little roles in Thai TV soaps. ALL of her Thai co-actors were undergoing already facial surgeries as teeth, eyes, lips, nose or boobs(only females). She herself was chosen because having all these desired attributes.

If it comes to "school" it's a bit different. As a "farang" you have to offer very good international schools for education if you don't want your child become an outcast. At home you have your freedom of speech with your father, enjoy discussions and wider offer of various activities (music, sports, language, holiday aso) but in "normal" school you are to obey and sing the national anthem every morning though the connection is not there same as Thais. The way of teaching is quite different what you learned from father at home, just focused on Thai history as the center of the world. To memorize all the Ramas is most important. This is different in international schools.

If kids are very young people in supermarkets are smiling and take photos because triggered by Korean culture and life style a "mixed face" is the maximum of beauty maybe even as a sign of globalization.

[Baerboxer]

As with all things about humans, it's variable. Some people still look disapprovingly as if any Thai married to a farang man must have been whoring when she met him. After all why else would she miss out on a perfect Thai male, perhaps like their son! More women than men fall into this category but it is the minority as far as I can see.

 

From experience, I reckon 40% couldn't care less; 40% treat it as normal and treat you as normal, 15% find it interesting although some of those think there might be an opportunity there and 5% are prejudiced and don't like it without even knowing anything.

 

The reverse is also interesting. Many farangs will automatically assume the worst of any Thai lady from their limited knowledge and mistake the fact that they've married a farang, are polite and friendly as a sign they're easy. 

[ResandePohm]

4 hours ago, Emster23 said:

I'd say there is prejudice against mixed marriages and prejudice towards mixed marriages. That's been my experience anyway

I agree with you. My wife is not and has never been a Bargirl but she feels it whenever we travel to Bangkok to arrange a visa for a trip to Europe. We stay overnight in a Hotel in Sukumvit where she is stared at by people who assume she is a Bargirl. She doesnt drink and has never been in a Bar. Even where we live in Isaan she was once asked when she is going back to Pataya by a waitress in a restuarant we went to. Needless to say we never went back there. My wife has only ever been to Pataya once and that was on a two day business conference with her company and I went with her. Even a Tuk tuk driver asked her to be his Mia Noi when I went away. Bloody rude. But as others have said many acquaintances have approached her and asked how they can also find a Farang and can she help them find one.

[ResandePohm]

1 minute ago, Thongkorn said:

Thailand is South East Asian.All part of /bad education . most Thai people look down on Thai woman with a Western man , I find being called falling/foriener racist. 

I am sorry if you are offended by the word Farang but I find it a useful word to use sometimes and it really is no more rasist than you saying "All Asians". 

But to get back to your statement; I would suggest that Thai women are equally looked down upon in Farangland and are mostly considered to be Immoral Bargirls (prostitutes).  So if this is part of bad education here, as you say, then it follows that it is eqaully part of bad education in Farangland. Nothing to do with SE Asia but to do with bad education

[Rc2702]

Just now, Justfine said:

Ok finally some discussion. Never been a problem. There are people with bigoted views everywhere who make assumptions which are false (look at the lonely guy comments for eg, his comments say more about himself)

 

Family and friends matter. Strangers who cares.

Odd thing say about fellow human beings. I care. I don't see the point of your contributions they make for negative reading and do not add value to a thread I follow as I am interested in strangers opinion on the subject matter and all you have done is derail it.

 

So yes I care and I care because I have family here and I'm interested to know REAL first hand experiences especially from those with children.

 

A chap on this thread has touched on an interesting point about his friends daughter who learns the Thai ways at school and then learns from her farang father. I think that's interesting as it could cause some friction potentially for the child and whilst it may seem negative at times it probably makes strong in mind.

 

I would not say I have acrued friends from this site but I am pleased my contributions have amounted to a few personal messages from people seeking advice or looking to help me in my own quest for answers at times or even just to say hello how are you. 

 

This forum can be a lot more than a tennis match of commentaries but it requires a bit of effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gecko123]

31 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

Southeast. Asaia and China are the most Racist people on the planet

 

Laughably predictable. From post #11:

 

"There are going to be people on this thread who will tell you that Thais are the most prejudiced and racist people on earth..."

 

For some reason it seems that it is mostly British people who hold opinions like this. Am I wrong for thinking this?

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Gecko123

[Rimmer]

Multiple troll, flames, off topic and baiting posts have been removed. If you are unable to discuss without all this baiting and bickering there will be some holidays awarded.

 

[maxcorrigan]

18 hours ago, seajae said:

over the years I have noticed that some of the older people, especially women tend to give us unpleasant looks when we are out together.I find most accept us as a couple and have no problems with me at all, we get invited to many functions etc all the time so it cant be too bad. Strangely enough my step daughter is the one that gets a bit funny if we hold hands or I kiss my wife goodbye etc but its better that the slaps I used to get when we were first married, being with a farang and showing your feelings are two totally different things. For some reason some thais dislike showing affection to your partner, guess you cant help small minds

Strangely enough it works the other way too, i went to a local coffee bar here in Sattahip with my 23 yr old Thai niece whilst sitting there, the dagger looks we were getting from a Farrang women at another table, with some men Germans i think, although the men did'nt seem bothered, but it made my niece feel uncomfortable being an air hostess and being took for a bar girl with me an old man, i told her don't worry she probably takes that attitude being close to Pattaya where it can be the norm, so unavoidable unfortunately!

[Acemaker]

21 hours ago, poanoi said:

that is not my impression. for instance they genuinely think mix thai/white children 

are the best looking children, and would like to breed for this reason alone

Excuse me, are we talking about Human Beings here or Sheep.

[gamini]

I think is a simple answer to this. If you are scruffy tattooed low class farang with a Thai girlfriend or wife they probably will look down upon you. If you well-dressed, well educated and mix with a good class of Thais and other expats, they probably won't look down upon you

[JimmyJ]

Someone mentioned that he and his Thai wife long ago used to get looks but no longer as it's become more common.

 

The ex-girlfriend I mentioned in the OP  was also long ago - about 30 years ago - so it's likely that Chinese attitudes in the US towards interracial marriages have changed as well and are less judgemental.

 

Personally, I think that in most cases (including the children of the couple I mentioned), Eurasians get the best features of both ethnicities and look great.

[joecoolfrog]

On 06/03/2018 at 2:58 PM, seajae said:

over the years I have noticed that some of the older people, especially women tend to give us unpleasant looks when we are out together.I find most accept us as a couple and have no problems with me at all, we get invited to many functions etc all the time so it cant be too bad. Strangely enough my step daughter is the one that gets a bit funny if we hold hands or I kiss my wife goodbye etc but its better that the slaps I used to get when we were first married, being with a farang and showing your feelings are two totally different things. For some reason some thais dislike showing affection to your partner, guess you cant help small minds

Open displays of affection are not a cultural norm , younger Thais may buck the trend slightly but in general the Thais are very conservative in this respect.

[joecoolfrog]

20 hours ago, gamini said:

I think is a simple answer to this. If you are scruffy tattooed low class farang with a Thai girlfriend or wife they probably will look down upon you. If you well-dressed, well educated and mix with a good class of Thais and other expats, they probably won't look down upon you

Surely the reverse is also true. Scruffy , ' low class ' tattoed Thai females are no doubt also looked down on by their 'betters'.

Of course those 'betters ' may be perfectly vile individuals whose expensive suits and cars are earned on the back of slave labour or corruption but hey as long as they look good !

[bheard]

You're not saying a dark complected Asian (or for that matter African) is subjected to more racial prejudice in SE Asia than in England, are you? Almost all western racial minorities I've spoken to report just the opposite. And about this attitude that Thais think everyone in England is white, plenty of Thais know a Thai who has moved to England, don't they? Many Thais couldn't find England on a map, but you'd have us believe that they have pre-set ideas about the demographic makeup of the country? Glad you posted, but not sure if your observations hold water.

In my experience his observations do hold water. As an Australian with English ancestors on both sides, it happens that I tan easily. Obviously I've got genes from the Romans (ran England for 300 years and unsurprisingly interbred) and/or the many incursions into England from southern europeans over the millennia. All this meant nothing to the ChiangMai massage lady (and she's not the only one) who told me I was not a real farang, must be a 'half'. ไม่เชื่อ she told me ("not believe").

Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rickudon]

There is some institutional racism in Thailand (e.g. a falang man married to a Thai still needs a visa and money, falang woman no problem, or difficulty ever getting Thai citizenship). And of course the assumption your wife was a bargirl. But of course Thai society is very class conscious as well. Add to all this,  the Thai smile hides a lot .....

 

Personally i do not think i have run into any real issues myself, but then i dress casually but fairly smartly when out, do not have tattoos and i am fairly short so 'non-threatening' in size. wife is younger but not a lot, she was late 30's when we married and is quite conservative in attitude. I'm sure if she wore short shorts and was in her 20's things night have been a bit different. Some others i know claim to see hostility frequently, but maybe because of their appearance and also due to the areas they frequent.

 

One thing that has changed is due to the internet falang men are now available to Thai women without having to go work in the 'entertainment' industry. So these days a thai woman's fantasy can come true without the stigma.

 

School - in their teens can get a little trouble, guess it is an easy way to be hurtful. Girls are luckier than boys, a boy particularly if from a not so well off family or particularly  father not around anymore tend to drift into fights and gangs to 'prove themselves'. I know 2 such luuk krueng who dropped out of school and ended up dead.