Punishing UK for Brexit is "language of a gang" - trade minister Fox

[evadgib]

14 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

A post that only partially quoted another post, thus changing its context has been removed. A Trolling post has also been removed.

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

This was my intention and what I thought I had done.

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

It's just the same old rhetoric from me and the other members I am afraid.

 

When will it sink in?  Clearly the UK negotiating team doesn't think the decision is "sound".  May has already conceded that after Brexit we will be worse off.  Britain will recover eventually (maybe ten or twenty years) and then we may get back to where we are now.  How is that "sound"?

 

The only real option for the UK is a soft brexit which will mean free movement of people and us still (as far as trade is concerned) abiding by EU rules.  Plus we will not only have handed over £40 million but we will still be paying in but have no seat at the table.  The alternative is to walk away and economically bankrupt the country. 

Brexit will almost certainly hurt the rate of growth of the UK but it won't bankrupt the country. The UK economy will just grow more slowly. The EU will still be its largest trading partner but now there will be tariffs in accordance with WTO rules. Not good but not a disaster.

[Stargeezr]

Britain, get out now, and get out quick, before the rabid pack of EU, powerful countries, look for more ways to punish or delay Berxit. They must be p*ssed that this is Britain leaving and not a helpful country like Greece.

Geezer

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Britain, get out now, and get out quick, before the rabid pack of EU, powerful countries, look for more ways to punish or delay Berxit. They must be p*ssed that this is Britain leaving and not a helpful country like Greece.

Geezer

Actually the Germans fought very hard and successfully to keep Greece in the Eurozone.

[dunroaming]

16 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Brexit will almost certainly hurt the rate of growth of the UK but it won't bankrupt the country. The UK economy will just grow more slowly. The EU will still be its largest trading partner but now there will be tariffs in accordance with WTO rules. Not good but not a disaster.

I am not saying that Brexit would "economically" bankrupt the country.  In my opinion that would only happen if we were to walk away (as certain Brexiteers seem to want).  I understand you are trying to put a positive spin on Brexit whilst I am more gloom and doom () but quite honestly we are all just guessing at the moment.  In the meantime we have a weak pound and prices are continuing to rise.

Edited March 9, 2018 by dunroaming

[Stargeezr]

My previous comment was an attempt at sarcasm, looks like I failed.

[dunroaming]

21 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

My previous comment was an attempt at sarcasm, looks like I failed.

[joecoolfrog]

It was always going to be a messy divorce,  that's the main reason I voted to remain.  Regardless of the rights and wrongs of Brexit its absurd to think the EU is ready or willing to negotiate a fair outcome.  They are seeking to punish the UK for pulling out both as a deterrent to others and because the Federalists have had their nose put out of joint.  In the short term Sterling and the British economy will suffer but its not a disaster.

In the long term it is probably the EU that will be irreversably changed , as an institution it has been far too arrogant and ignored the ' common ' people.

[jacko45k]

On 3/9/2018 at 6:36 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

BooHoo! Sob! Sob!

 

What a poor, pretty little snowflake.

 

The UK is leaving the club, causing hardship and readjustment to all the remaining members. Personally, I think the EU has been very fair to the UK, discussing all issues and working to see if there is a way to ensure the least disruption and perhaps a future trading arrangement. They don't have to do that and in many ways it is in the interest of the EU to just say "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

 

Stop whingeing.

 

Yes, and to take their £50 Bn with them and spend it on themselves!

The turmoil of all these tidal discussions is becoming the real problem.

[dick dasterdly]

22 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Your reply is uninformed. Cameron's government sent a pamphlet to every home in the UK, in which it was explained exactly what leaving the EU meant: that it meant leaving the single market and it meant leaving the customs union. The notion that this wasn't known prior to the referendum is a myth which has been propagated by the enduring remain campaign.

 

We are in the mess that we are in precisely because of the reason I stated in my post to which you replied. It has nothing to do with your absurd, oft-stated opinion that we are decades away from being ready for brexit. In fact, you claim is quite disingenuous: if it's difficult to do this now, and the Europe project succeeds, it will be impossible to leave a few years down the line. We need to get out of the EU abomination now, whilst we still can.

 

The real upshot of all this is that remain has made British politics even more toxic, sent it even further into the gutter. And this is where the UK will really be paying the price in coming decades. Expect to see the rise of extreme, non-consensus political parties, as has happened elsewhere in Europe. UKIP aint got nuthin on what's coming next.

 

21 hours ago, dunroaming said:

It's just the same old rhetoric from me and the other members I am afraid.

 

When will it sink in?  Clearly the UK negotiating team doesn't think the decision is "sound".  May has already conceded that after Brexit we will be worse off.  Britain will recover eventually (maybe ten or twenty years) and then we may get back to where we are now.  How is that "sound"?

 

The only real option for the UK is a soft brexit which will mean free movement of people and us still (as far as trade is concerned) abiding by EU rules.  Plus we will not only have handed over £40 million but we will still be paying in but have no seat at the table.  The alternative is to walk away and economically bankrupt the country. 

And therein lies the problem.

 

Neither eu or uk politicians/bureaucrats want the uk to leave - as it's not in their interest, or the 'big business' interests they represent....

 

So the eu bureaucrats/politicians refuse to negotiate sensibly, whilst uk politicians desperately look for a way to appease the 'leave' electorate!

 

 

[malagateddy]

WTR and be done with it.
Then watch countries like Poland etc gang up on barnier.tusk.drunker like a pack of feral animals[emoji23]

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[teatree]

On 3/9/2018 at 7:04 AM, greenchair said:

You don't get your cake and eat it. 

Britain wants all the perks, with none of the responsibilities. 

I  want, I  want. 

No, the UK wants trade but not political union.  The UK's position has not changed in the 40 odd years it was a member.   It joined a group under the assurances that it was all about trade but this slowly proved to be a lie as the bloc moved towards political integration.

[teatree]

On 3/9/2018 at 5:04 PM, joecoolfrog said:

It was always going to be a messy divorce,  that's the main reason I voted to remain.  Regardless of the rights and wrongs of Brexit its absurd to think the EU is ready or willing to negotiate a fair outcome.  They are seeking to punish the UK for pulling out both as a deterrent to others and because the Federalists have had their nose put out of joint.  In the short term Sterling and the British economy will suffer but its not a disaster.

In the long term it is probably the EU that will be irreversably changed , as an institution it has been far too arrogant and ignored the ' common ' people.

If the EU were always going to be aholes, isn't that reason enough not to want to be in political union with them?  The way they are acting is vindictive and childish, and if there were to be a 2nd referendum I think the margin to leave would be even greater because of this.

[teatree]

On 3/9/2018 at 6:41 AM, oilinki said:

Once again. EU's aim is to provide best possible long term results to EU citizens. That's the same aim as UK government has for its citizens. 

 

There is no reason for EU to punish UK. UK has managed to do that very well by itself.

 

 

Given that the EU runs a HUGE trade surplus with the UK, then its best interests would include a tariff free access between the two.

 

But of course the ideology behind the idea of United States of Europe prevents any rationality and any best provision of EU citizens.

[KiChakayan]

4 minutes ago, teatree said:

No, the UK wants trade but not political union.  The UK's position has not changed in the 40 odd years it was a member.   It joined a group under the assurances that it was all about trade but this slowly proved to be a lie as the bloc moved towards political integration.

You are right on one account Britain has always seen Europe as a business opportunity. But the Brits have never been lied to. The German end French, and some others, saw as a priority preventing another war, hence progressive political integration had always been on the books. I guess the Brits at some stage believed they had the clout to prevent this to happen. That's the past now, kudos to them for accepting to cut their losses now, and clarify a messy situation.

[teatree]

2 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

You are right on one account Britain has always seen Europe as a business opportunity. But the Brits have never been lied to. The German end French, and some others, saw as a priority preventing another war, hence progressive political integration had always been on the books. I guess the Brits at some stage believed they had the clout to prevent this to happen. That's the past now, kudos to them for accepting to cut their losses now, and clarify a messy situation.

They were lied to in the 1st referendum in the 70's by their politicians.

 

But yes, it has always been hidden in plain view that the EU was always intended as being a political union.  Much in the same way that Clegg called the idea of an EU army 'dangerous fantasy' when in fact it is clear that this is a key aim.

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, teatree said:

Given that the EU runs a HUGE trade surplus with the UK, then its best interests would include a tariff free access between the two.

 

But of course the ideology behind the idea of United States of Europe prevents any rationality and any best provision of EU citizens.

Yes that would be a great idea for the UK. None of the obligations, and a really big benefit. I'm sure all the other countries footing the expenses for the EU would be thrilled at that.

[teatree]

21 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes that would be a great idea for the UK. None of the obligations, and a really big benefit. I'm sure all the other countries footing the expenses for the EU would be thrilled at that.

This kind of idea alway baffles me...ie 'you want all of the good stuff but none of the bad'.

 

So, why does any country put up with the bad?  Why doesn't the EU revert back to a trading group?  The UK wouldn't even had had a referendum if the terms had remained the same as when they joined.

 

Of course, the answer is that although most people in Europe have little appetite for political union, it is the ideologues in the political establishment who will fight with everything they have to maintain further integration.

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, teatree said:

This kind of idea alway baffles me...ie 'you want all of the good stuff but none of the bad'.

 

So, why does any country put up with the bad?  Why doesn't the EU revert back to a trading group?  The UK wouldn't even had had a referendum if the terms had remained the same as when they joined.

 

Of course, the answer is that although most people in Europe have little appetite for political union, it is the ideologues in the political establishment who will fight with everything they have to maintain further integration.

 

 

 

 

Some fools out there say it's because the benefits outweigh the cost of the obligations. LIke you, I hate math.

[teatree]

31 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Some fools out there say it's because the benefits outweigh the cost of the obligations. LIke you, I hate math.

Care to give any specifics to back up your ad hominem?

 

Why not add in racist, islamophobic and homophobic for good measure.

 

Either come up with an argument or don't reply.

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, teatree said:

Care to give any specifics to back up your ad hominem?

 

Why not add in racist, islamophobic and homophobic for good measure.

 

Either come up with an argument or don't reply.

You mean those fools who say the benefits of being in the EU outweigh the costs? Here's the proof of what fools they are:

http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-leaked-eu-migration-cost-reduced-us-trade-deal-impact-assessment-a8188466.html

https://www.bipr.eu/BIPREXTRAMATERIALS/20171023.pdf

 

[teatree]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean those fools who say the benefits of being in the EU outweigh the costs? Here's the proof of what fools they are:

http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-leaked-eu-migration-cost-reduced-us-trade-deal-impact-assessment-a8188466.html

https://www.bipr.eu/BIPREXTRAMATERIALS/20171023.pdf

 

Oh yes!!!....the same people who said that if we didn't join the Euro all those years ago we would be left in ruins! 

That if we voted to leave the EU there would be an immediate crash and an emergency budget!  Not exactly a good track record is it? 

 

You see, organisations like the CBI and the EU are singing from the same hymn sheet.  I have no doubt that remaining in the EU is good for the political establishment and large corporations, I just think it is not in the best interests of the general public.

[teatree]

18 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean those fools who say the benefits of being in the EU outweigh the costs? Here's the proof of what fools they are:

http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-leaked-eu-migration-cost-reduced-us-trade-deal-impact-assessment-a8188466.html

https://www.bipr.eu/BIPREXTRAMATERIALS/20171023.pdf

 

 

From 1998:

Business: The Economy

CBI urges business to back euro

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/120407.stm

 

Something tells me to treat what they say with a SACK of salt.

Edited March 11, 2018 by teatree

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, teatree said:

 

From 1998:

Business: The Economy

CBI urges business to back euro

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/120407.stm

 

Something tells me to treat what they say with a SACK of salt.

Wow! you found a guy who says otherwise. I can find people who believe that the lizard people control the world economy. In fact, this person lost the argument. Seems to mean that he faced lots of opposition.

[teatree]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Wow! you found a guy who says otherwise. I can find people who believe that the lizard people control the world economy. In fact, this person lost the argument. Seems to mean that he faced lots of opposition.

What?  Not sure what you mean.

 

The link is to an article where the CBI are imploring the UK to join the Euro in 1998.  This was the position of the CBI at the time (and a whole host of other think tanks and political/business groups),  you do understand this don't you?  Just as now it is the position of the CBI that the UK should have remained in the EU.

 

My point being that it is generally considered a very good thing that the UK did not join the Euro and the CBI got it wrong...just as they are wrong now.  This link I posted was in response to you putting up a link to the CBI as proof that the UK should stay in the EU.

 

They are wrong now just as they were with the Euro.

[ilostmypassword]

19 minutes ago, teatree said:

What?  Not sure what you mean.

 

The link is to an article where the CBI are imploring the UK to join the Euro in 1998.  This was the position of the CBI at the time (and a whole host of other think tanks and political/business groups),  you do understand this don't you?  Just as now it is the position of the CBI that the UK should have remained in the EU.

 

My point being that it is generally considered a very good thing that the UK did not join the Euro and the CBI got it wrong...just as they are wrong now.  This link I posted was in response to you putting up a link to the CBI as proof that the UK should stay in the EU.

 

They are wrong now just as they were with the Euro.

By your logic than all the economist who opposed joining the Eurozone but say leaving the EU is a bad idea must be right. 

[malagateddy]

Ilmp..hope you can understand that the top scumbags of the eu are in the back pocket of likes of soros.rothchilds.citibank.goldman sachs etc etc..who are only interested in filling their pockets
Greed is good..money money money..power.power.power
Please wakey wakey



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[3NUMBAS]

keeping their donations so no more long lunches on UK coins

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed along with a reply.

 

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Ilmp..hope you can understand that the top scumbags of the eu are in the back pocket of likes of soros.rothchilds.citibank.goldman sachs etc etc..who are only interested in filling their pockets
Greed is good..money money money..power.power.power
Please wakey wakey
Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Conspiracy Nuts Ahoy! Made up nonsense from beginning to end. Fortunately not one of them is near a Government position right now, though one wonders what the mental state is exactly this minute from Fox and Co.

Edited March 12, 2018 by SheungWan